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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (4 Viewers)

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cobalt_27 said:
Perhaps not directly.  But, you're being deliberately obtuse to ignore how they personally have made millions upon millions of dimes indirectly through the foundation's existence and the intersection of political and financial capital.
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How have they made millions indirectly off of the Clinton Foundation? 

 
tommyGunZ said:
Got any proof otherwise?  
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The beautiful part about the court of public opinion is that while chickcanery can be concealed by procedure in practice, doesn't pass the sniff test of why you would pay these people hundreds of millions for access with no discernible skills other than backdoor dealing.

 
squistion said:
HellToupee said:
she looks 200 , maybe 225 sitting there
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You look worse for refusing to answer what you meant by this statement, so we can move on (and a joke YouTube clip is not an answer):

HellToupee said:
It absolutely is. The Obama win over Romney brought us TRUMP
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I just thought I would take a crack at this just because I think it's an interesting assertion.

How the P.C. Police Propelled Donald Trump


By assailing sensible conservatives as sexists, racists, and imbeciles, they paved the way for a jackass who embodies their worst fears.
...

Trump’s staying power, however, is rooted in the fact that his supporters are not fighting for any particular political outcome, they are fighting back against a culture they think is trying to smother them into cowed silence. What they want, more than any one policy, is someone to turn to the chanting mobs and say, without hesitation: “No, I will not shut up.” How long this will go on, then, depends on how long it will take for those people to feel reassured that someone besides Trump will represent their concerns without backing down in the face of catcalls about racism, sexism, LGBTQ-phobia, Islamophobia, or any other number of labels deployed mostly to extinguish their dissent.
In the end, the significant cadre of kooks attached to Trump will likely scare the normals away from their flirtation with all this little-league brown-shirting. But the point remains that this is happening not because of an overly rightist GOP, but because American liberals, complacently turning away from the excesses of the left and eviscerating their own moderate wing, have damaged the two-party system to the point that an unhinged billionaire demagogue is raking in support from people who are now more afraid of leftists controlling the Justice Department than they are of Putin or ISIS.
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/01/04/how-the-p-c-police-propelled-donald-trump.html
 
I just offer this as a means of you and HT breaking your logjam.

Personally I'm more of a proponent of the idea that the GOP (like the Dems before them) have been riding this nationalist tiger for a couple decades at least and they finally ran into someone who had zero compunction about taking the reins himself. However obviously the frustration of the movement in social policy in Obama's second term has led to a great deal of frustration and desperation on the national level even as the GOP has had record success on the state and congressional level. That really doesn't make it "Obama's fault" that Trump exists but you can see that it has played a role or effect in what has happened for sure.

 
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Smack Tripper said:
The beautiful part about the court of public opinion is that while chickcanery can be concealed by procedure in practice, doesn't pass the sniff test of why you would pay these people hundreds of millions for access with no discernible skills other than backdoor dealing.
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This is the very definition of charity.  

You should get your facts straight.  The Clintons were not "paid" hundreds of millions of dollars.  

 
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tommyGunZ said:
This is the very definition of charity.  

You should get your facts straight.  The Clintons were not "paid" hundreds of millions of dollars.  
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what has their personal income been since 2000?  Have they or have they not made hundreds of millions? 

Do you deny that no surrogates profitted through their charitable works?  

No one is buying this noise any more.

 
I still don't see Clinton losing although recent polls have all trended to Trump. In what should be a surprise to no one, Hillary is really struggling with young voters who were Bernie supporters.  A lot are favoring Johnson and while that support might not hold I think it is more likely young voters stay home as opposed to going to the polls and finally coming around to Hillary. The other interesting development is that the importance of the Latino vote has been marginalized as a result of which states will decide this election. Most swing states don't have significant Latino populations that can move the needle.

If polls remain tight through the debates and up to Election Day, I predict traditional GOP voters are more likely to hold their nose and vote Hillary than young people are motivated to get out and vote for her.

 
Smack Tripper said:
what has their personal income been since 2000?  Have they or have they not made hundreds of millions? 

Do you deny that no surrogates profitted through their charitable works?  

No one is buying this noise any more.
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:rolleyes:

thats your argument...I expected much better trolling this morning

 
tommyGunZ said:
The Clintons were not "paid" hundreds of millions of dollars.  
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Just to be clear, didn't the Foundation receive $26 million speaking fees for the Clintons, and then spit some back out at the end of the year? And aren't they having 5 years of tax returns rewritten for inaccurately representing their donors? These things happened, right?

 
The Clinton Foundation's finances are complicated. Everytime I've tried to read an article about it I've gotten bogged down and confused with all the numbers- I'm no CPA. 

Those who don't like the Clintons are certain that money is somehow skimmed off the top, or that contributions are made in return for political access or favors, or that the Foundation pays salaries to friends or allies of the Clintons, or all of the above. But typically there is no direct evidence for any of this: it's always some fact or transaction that appears suspicious but then later turns out to be benign. 

That's my impression anyhow. 

 
Rachel Maddow last night reached the same conclusion which I had been leaning towards: that Trump's Birther comments were ultimately a mistake; that by raising this issue again he was energizing African-Americans to support Hillary. If so, yesterday might be a turning point. 

We'll know soon enough of this is true. But all day yesterday, if watching black politicians and celebrities is any indication, it will be. I don't recall seeing them during this campaign cycle so animated and angry before now. 

 
avoiding injuries said:
Someone post what Hannity or Rush said so the above post can be countered. 
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:D  I didn't listen to them but I would bet they gave some sort of variation of what Chauncey wrote in the Trump thread: that this was a brilliant manipulation of the news media by Trump, and that he had smartly managed to turn the tables on what might have been his biggest weakness as a candidate. That was somewhat my initial impression as well, but I've changed my mind. Time will tell. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Just to be clear, didn't the Foundation receive $26 million speaking fees for the Clintons, and then spit some back out at the end of the year? And aren't they having 5 years of tax returns rewritten for inaccurately representing their donors? These things happened, right?
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"Spit some back out"?  

The Clintons do not make any money off of the foundation Saints, and you know this. Not a dime. 

 
One thing I do know is that Hillary never used her own charity's money ($20,000) to by a giant 6 foot tall portrait of her self, like how Trump did. 

 
Boston said:
Looks like the Clinton Foundation needs some help managing their salary cap...

http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/16/just-5-7-percent-of-clinton-foundation-budget-actually-went-to-charity/
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Florina campaigned on this number last year.  When it was fact-checked, the conclusion drawn was Florina was obfuscating the term "Foundation".  

A lot of Foundations started by individuals are pass-through organizations that do a wonderful job efficiently funding other charities but don't do much direct charity work themselves.   The Clinton Foundation is a bit of a misnomer from this perspective because it implements a lot of charity work itself.  So there's the 5-6% the Clinton Foundation sends on to other charities, but there's also the 75-85% the Clinton Foundation uses to implement the Clinton Health Access Initiative, Clinton Development Initiative, etc.  If you treated those implementation arms as their own separate organizations, the Clinton Foundation would grade out at around 80-90% of their budget going to charity depending on the year.  There are leaner charities, but 80% on a "bad" year is pretty damn good for as ambitious as the Clinton Foundation's goals are.  

I'm not going to say the Clinton Foundation is above reproach or that the Clintons themselves don't even indirectly benefit financially from it.  However, in terms of this election, criticizing the Clinton Foundation's efficiency is pretty damn brazen.  I suggest reading this Altantic piece about the Trump Foundation.

 
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timschochet said:
Rachel Maddow last night reached the same conclusion which I had been leaning towards: that Trump's Birther comments were ultimately a mistake; that by raising this issue again he was energizing African-Americans to support Hillary. If so, yesterday might be a turning point. 

We'll know soon enough of this is true. But all day yesterday, if watching black politicians and celebrities is any indication, it will be. I don't recall seeing them during this campaign cycle so animated and angry before now. 
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Seriously Tim, this is like the thousandths post you have put on here looking (no hoping) for a turning point. If the polls are to be believed and Trump is tightening this up, it could be (note I say could) because Trump is giving the American people something Clinton seems to have a huge problem with and this is being honest with them. Trump goes on Dr. Oz and shows his medical records---Ooops CNN, I guess that blew away your week's worth of attack articles you had all over your front page about how medically unfit Trump was and what he was hiding. Trump comes forth and admits Obama was born in the US--again bye bye that criticism of him, unless you want to move the goalposts on that issue.  Yet Clinton and her people can't even give a straight up answer about Clinton's health--we have to hear all this BS about heat and the humidity and whatever smoke screen they put out before finally copping to the truth.  

She is a very smart lady with a ton of credentials but she is damaged goods. You can't put a dress on this pig no matter how hard you try.

And if this election cycle holds true, the debates won't be won on substance. They will be remembered for whose sound bite gets played by the networks. Unfortunately for the Dems and the MSM who have already declared Clinton the winner of all the debates, this is right in Trump's wheelhouse.

 
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timschochet said:
Yes it was. But again, in order for a seed to take root, it needs fertile soil. And the Democratic party was not fertile soil for racism. Unfortunately, the Republican party was and is.
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Your The racist

 
Courtjester said:
Seriously Tim, this is like the thousandths post you have put on here looking (no hoping) for a turning point. If the polls are to be believed and Trump is tightening this up, it could be (note I say could) because Trump is giving the American people something Clinton seems to have a huge problem with and this is being honest with them. Trump goes on Dr. Oz and shows his medical records---Ooops CNN, I guess that blew away your week's worth of attack articles you had all over your front page about how medically unfit Trump was and what he was hiding. Trump comes forth and admits Obama was born in the US--again bye bye that criticism of him, unless you want to move the goalposts on that issue.  Yet Clinton and her people can't even give a straight up answer about Clinton's health--we have to hear all this BS about heat and the humidity and whatever smoke screen they put out before finally coping to the truth.  

She is a very smart lady with a ton of credentials but she is damaged goods. You can't put a dress on this pig no matter how hard you try.

And if this election cycle holds true, the debates won't be won on substance. They will be remembered for whose sound bite gets played by the networks. Unfortunately for the Dems and the MSM who have already declared Clinton the winner of all the debates, this is right in Trump's wheelhouse.
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If I wanted to, I could take apart everything you've written here, point by point. But since none of it has anything to do with what I wrote about Trump's Birther comments, it doesn't seem worth the effort. 

 
timschochet said:
58% of Trump supporters believe, today,  that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. Please explain this, if you don't think racism is at the core of it.
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It's bull####

1. 58% of trump supporters have never heard of kenya

2. Thinking someone was born in Kenya or the UK or on the moon doesn't make someone racist. 

 
There was never much question that I would vote for Clinton, but lately my need to speak out has changed. Not only am I going to vote Clinton, I'm starting to let others that I know hear about it and my rationale. 

I see a stark contrast between the two candidates, but not everyone sees the world like I do. I respect that. For me it comes down to what I believe is in the heart of each candidate. I can't read their minds. I can't "see" into their hearts, but my gut points me in the direction of Clinton. I think she has what's best for our citizens in her heart. Sure, there's an aspect of narcissism in anyone that would seek such a prominent position, but in her case I think she wants what's best for everyone. I don't think that's true with Trump. I don't believe he cares about our citizenry. I don't know that his lack of caring (my perception of it anyway) goes so far as being a full blown psychopath, but IMO it's not far from it. 

Regardless, I believe in our democracy. Regardless of who wins we will survive and thrive as we have in the past. 

 
timschochet said:
If I wanted to, I could take apart everything you've written here, point by point. But since none of it has anything to do with what I wrote about Trump's Birther comments, it doesn't seem worth the effort. 
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So the ole stick your fingers in the ears and go lalaallala defense.

Well played

:thumbup:

 
Donald using charity money to buy a Tim Tebow football, a 6 foot painting of himself, and pay himself (probably at an excessive rate - can someone investigate what he charges his "charity" and the campaign please) to host events at his own hotels is my current favorite Donald behavior :lol:

 
Courtjester said:
Seriously Tim, this is like the thousandths post you have put on here looking (no hoping) for a turning point. If the polls are to be believed and Trump is tightening this up, it could be (note I say could) because Trump is giving the American people something Clinton seems to have a huge problem with and this is being honest with them. Trump goes on Dr. Oz and shows his medical records---Ooops CNN, I guess that blew away your week's worth of attack articles you had all over your front page about how medically unfit Trump was and what he was hiding. Trump comes forth and admits Obama was born in the US--again bye bye that criticism of him, unless you want to move the goalposts on that issue.  Yet Clinton and her people can't even give a straight up answer about Clinton's health--we have to hear all this BS about heat and the humidity and whatever smoke screen they put out before finally copping to the truth.  

She is a very smart lady with a ton of credentials but she is damaged goods. You can't put a dress on this pig no matter how hard you try.

And if this election cycle holds true, the debates won't be won on substance. They will be remembered for whose sound bite gets played by the networks. Unfortunately for the Dems and the MSM who have already declared Clinton the winner of all the debates, this is right in Trump's wheelhouse.
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There's no way you people are this dumb.

What Mr. Trump provided, it turned out, was a cursory summary of test results and other basic information, from the same personal physician who supplied him a bizarre, laudatory testimonial late last year. But for the nationwide audience, he created the impression of having been checked over and given a clean bill of health by the most famous surgeon in syndication.
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BassNBrew said:
It's bull####

1. 58% of trump supporters have never heard of kenya

2. Thinking someone was born in Kenya or the UK or on the moon doesn't make someone racist. 
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I try to avoid the blanket racist claims. It's almost always more complicated than just saying something is straight up racist.

The birther stuff though was absolutely stemming from, in at least some part, racism IMO.

Not all people who were talking about the birth certificate bull#### were racists.

All racists #######s though were definitely birthers.

 
Hooper31 said:
There was never much question that I would vote for Clinton, but lately my need to speak out has changed. Not only am I going to vote Clinton, I'm starting to let others that I know hear about it and my rationale. 

I see a stark contrast between the two candidates, but not everyone sees the world like I do. I respect that. For me it comes down to what I believe is in the heart of each candidate. I can't read their minds. I can't "see" into their hearts, but my gut points me in the direction of Clinton. I think she has what's best for our citizens in her heart. Sure, there's an aspect of narcissism in anyone that would seek such a prominent position, but in her case I think she wants what's best for everyone. I don't think that's true with Trump. I don't believe he cares about our citizenry. I don't know that his lack of caring (my perception of it anyway) goes so far as being a full blown psychopath, but IMO it's not far from it. 

Regardless, I believe in our democracy. Regardless of who wins we will survive and thrive as we have in the past. 
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I think she has the need to be the first female president at heart. She will say anything to make that a reality. There's absolutely no chance that she has "what's best for our citizens" in her heart. 

 
The General said:
Donald using charity money to buy a Tim Tebow football, a 6 foot painting of himself, and pay himself (probably at an excessive rate - can someone investigate what he charges his "charity" and the campaign please) to host events at his own hotels is my current favorite Donald behavior :lol:
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There's a chain of events described in that Atlantic article that are just spectacular.  Trump Foundation solicits a donation from a different foundation based in New Jersey because they want to give a big gift to the police in Florida.  Other org donates $150K.  Then the Trump Foundation donates $150K to the Palm Beach Police Foundation.  The police foundation is so moved by the gift they give Trump an award for it.  Gala for award presentation is hosted at Mar-a-Lago, which was rented out for the event for over $200K.  

So the Trump Foundation took a donation from someone else, passed it off as their own money, got an award for it, and collected business revenue in excess of the charitable gift someone else gave.

I can see how a Trump supporter would not see this as a negative. Those are the actions of someone who clearly knows how the system works and how to manipulate it for their own gain.. I don't respect the motives or the deception involved, but as a connoisseur of heist movies I have respect for his ability to pull it off.

 
Reading some news this morning and they were saying in various key battleground areas there around 30% of the voters that call themselves "undecided" 

WTF people :lol:

Are you seriously going to decide this on some ads or one debate where they talk for probably 30 minutes each, most of which is just memorized lines.

These same people are probably the first to complain about how bad the government sucks.

 
cstu said:
There's no way you people are this dumb.
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So other than insults do you have a point?

He was criticized for not providing medical info. He went on a tv and provided it to a doctor (queue criticism of that) not a journalist. You can move the goalposts all you want, but there literally wouldn't have been anything he could have provided that would have satisfied you or your side.

 
Courtjester said:
So other than insults do you have a point?

He was criticized for not providing medical info. He went on a tv and provided it to a doctor (queue criticism of that) not a journalist. You can move the goalposts all you want, but there literally wouldn't have been anything he could have provided that would have satisfied you or your side.
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:lmao:

Too bad he doesn't have Judge Judy presiding over his Trump U fraud case.

 
jerry jones said:
There's absolutely no chance that she has "what's best for our citizens" in her heart. 
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IMO the woman that wrote "It takes a village" has dedicated her life to one of service. You're free to believe that guy that wrote (well, not really) the book "The art of the deal" has dedicated his life to one of service. I will respectfully disagree. 

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
There's a chain of events described in that Atlantic article that are just spectacular.  Trump Foundation solicits a donation from a different foundation based in New Jersey because they want to give a big gift to the police in Florida.  Other org donates $150K.  Then the Trump Foundation donates $150K to the Palm Beach Police Foundation.  The police foundation is so moved by the gift they give Trump an award for it.  Gala for award presentation is hosted at Mar-a-Lago, which was rented out for the event for over $200K.  

So the Trump Foundation took a donation from someone else, passed it off as their own money, got an award for it, and collected business revenue in excess of the charitable gift someone else gave.

I can see how a Trump supporter would not see this as a negative. Those are the actions of someone who clearly knows how the system works and how to manipulate it for their own gain.. I don't respect the motives or the deception involved, but as a connoisseur of heist movies I have respect for his ability to pull it off.
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Yup. Read something similar that laid out that stuff. Totally scammer. I guess he subscribes to the "if your not cheating your not trying" mantra. Sleazy but whatever. But you got to get called out for this stuff.

The thing that's crazy to me is Clinton is the liar of these two in all the polls taken on this and then people claim the "media" is in the bag for Clinton. 

 
jerry jones said:
I think she has the need to be the first female president at heart. She will say anything to make that a reality. There's absolutely no chance that she has "what's best for our citizens" in her heart. 
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In her mind she does.  Her goal isn't just to be the first female President but to also be a great President.  We can debate whether she's capable of that but it's foolish to think she doesn't want to be a great President.

 
tommyGunZ said:
"Spit some back out"?  

The Clintons do not make any money off of the foundation Saints, and you know this. Not a dime. 
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Yes the Foundation accepted speaking fees for the Clintons and paid an undisclosed amount back out at the end of the year. 

I think you should also include interplay by Teneo & WJC LLC in your evaluation.

 
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