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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (3 Viewers)

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renesauz said:
I know...but I did think you were adopting that idea.

I dislike Hillary the human immensely, but I loathe Trump. Hillary the politician is palatable, she has the experience and the ability to work with others, and most of her ideas/platform are at least reasonably comparable to what I would prefer.

I'd love to see a candidate with the cahones to run on a platform looking to cut active military spending by 25-30% over 6-8 years and put that money into higher education, a single payer health insurance system, and infrastructure. We can no longer afford to act as the world's policemen, and we're spending twice what we need to to protect our own borders. If another Hitler came along, we have enough here we could ramp back up easily enough.Our military spending is obscene, and renders irrelevant all discussion regarding available funds for other programs and needs, but politicians refuse to address it in any meaningful way.
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Solid post - not being sarcastic as I appreciate the detail. :thumbup:

If "put that money into higher education" you mean paying for college tuition for families, then I'm on board with that.  Giving it directly to schools I'm totally against that.  We already give them an obscene amount of money.

Single Payer - no way.  Ever.  I don't see how single-payer solves any problems at all other than filling a checkbox on the Socialist checklist.

25-30% of military spending - that means massive layoffs.  What are you going to do with all of those former soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines?

 
MaxThreshold said:
Solid post - not being sarcastic as I appreciate the detail. :thumbup:

If "put that money into higher education" you mean paying for college tuition for families, then I'm on board with that.  Giving it directly to schools I'm totally against that.  We already give them an obscene amount of money.

Single Payer - no way.  Ever.  I don't see how single-payer solves any problems at all other than filling a checkbox on the Socialist checklist.

25-30% of military spending - that means massive layoffs.  What are you going to do with all of those former soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines?
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No need to lay off personnel..the obscene spending is on equipment the military doesn't really need. Congress aproved 100 new tanks a few years ago that the Army specifically stated they didn't even need. Cutbacks would have to be gradual to give companies time and opportunity to retool and shift to other products. It would hurt, but the saving would be worth it.

And I've never understood the American rejection of single-payer...it's working pretty much everywhere, and working just as well as our system has at almost half the cost. Our system is BROKEN beyond repair

 
MaxThreshold said:
Single Payer - no way.  Ever.  I don't see how single-payer solves any problems at all other than filling a checkbox on the Socialist checklist.
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I think "single payer" is a lot closer than you think.  It will look like Medicare where about 50% have commercial insurance (Medicare Advantage plans) and Medicaid where about 70% have commercial insurance (MSOs) as opposed to the "government run" VA, but the path is the next time large employers face out of control costs insuring their employees which for a bunch of reasons has been on an eight year hiatus.   (I said large employers, not small employers, not employees themselves, and not those self employed.)

MaxThreshold said:
25-30% of military spending - that means massive layoffs.  What are you going to do with all of those former soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines?
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Every dollar we take out of the economy for government spending returns sixty cents to the economy.  This is the multiplier calculated by conservative economists that they then misuse as a proxy to show that all government spending is a detriment to the economy.  Being lazy with the numbers simply subtracting $200 billion in military spending means an extra $80 billion a year in the economy  ($200 x .6 = 120  so 200 - 120 = 80).  Put this $200 billion to work elsewhere in government where the multiplier is over one such as infrastructure (1.6) where we would add $200 billion to the economy ($200 x 1.6 = 320  so 320 - 120 = 300  200)  .  Granted this is an oversimplification as nothing is this simple in macro economics, but at the end of the day military spending might be a great stimulus to some local economy, but for the nation overall it is a drag on the economy and thus a drag on employment.  

 
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Bottomfeeder Sports said:
I think "single payer" is a lot closer than you think.  It will look like Medicare where about 50% have commercial insurance (Medicare Advantage plans) and Medicaid where about 70% have commercial insurance (MSOs) as opposed to the "government run" VA, but the path is the next time large employers face out of control costs insuring their employees which for a bunch of reasons has been on an eight year hiatus.   (I said large employers, not small employers, not employees themselves, and not those self employed.)

Every dollar we take out of the economy for government spending returns sixty cents to the economy.  This is the multiplier calculated by conservative economists that they then misuse as a proxy to show that all government spending is a detriment to the economy.  Being lazy with the numbers simply subtracting $200 billion in military spending means an extra $80 billion a year in the economy  ($200 x .6 = 120  so 200 - 120 = 80).  Put this $200 billion to work elsewhere in government where the multiplier is over one such as infrastructure (1.6) where we would add $200 billion to the economy ($200 x 1.6 = 320  so 320 - 120 = 300).  Granted this is an oversimplification as nothing is this simple in macro economics, but at the end of the day military spending might be a great stimulus to some local economy, but for the nation overall it is a drag on the economy and thus a drag on employment.  
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I don't disagree with the overall sentiment here, but you should recheck you math on the bolded

 
renesauz said:
Tim is absolutely nuts in his blind faith and support of Hillary though...and it's beyond :lmao: to consider her a "strong" candidate...just too many potential scandals, even if most of them are dramatically overstated by a conservative right with an irrational hatred of what is actually a very centrist Democrat.
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My faith isn't blind. If you got back through this thread I've been pretty critical of her on a variety of issues. 

But overall I think she's a good person, and I believe almost all of the so-called scandals turn out to be pretty much nothing when examined in any detail. If that makes me nuts so be it. 

 
timschochet said:
My faith isn't blind. If you got back through this thread I've been pretty critical of her on a variety of issues. 

But overall I think she's a good person, and I believe almost all of the so-called scandals turn out to be pretty much nothing when examined in any detail. If that makes me nuts so be it. 
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Mine isn't either.

I have been saying for over a year she is a flawed candidate, not completely honest and forthcoming (as are most politicians) and that there are several issues I disagree with her on, but people keep trotting out the meme that Hillary supporters believe everything she says and blindly support all her positions (which is not the case for any of the regulars in this thread that I can think of).

 
MaxThreshold said:
Single Payer - no way.  Ever.  I don't see how single-payer solves any problems at all other than filling a checkbox on the Socialist checklist.
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You should take a few minutes and read up on the efficiencies a single payer system provides.  In addition to getting everyone covered.  

 
timschochet said:
Max please answer the question I asked you in the other thread about Benghazi. Why are you still attacking Hillary when she has been exonerated by every investigation of what happened? 
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You're going from thread to thread begging for people to respond to you in a different thread now?  And you lectured me this morning about mucking up threads?  You're a real clown.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
You're going from thread to thread begging for people to respond to you in a different thread now?  And you lectured me this morning about mucking up threads?  You're a real clown.
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Um, Max has raised the issue of Benghazi several times. I'm responding to his bringing it up. You're welcome to respond to my question as well, assuming you're capable. 

 
renesauz said:
This is a lost argument Tim...the DNC absolutely stacked the deck against Sanders, so calling it "rigged" barely qualifies as a stretch, and certainly isn't a "lie"
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Of course the deck was stacked against Sanders. But Sanders knew that before he even decided to switch his party affiliation to Democrat. Hate the game, not the player.

It's funny to watch Trump supporters twist and gyrate to defend every example of Trump gaming the system, and then cry foul about Hillary doing it with the DNC.

I mean, I expect the "It's not fair!" whining from the Sanders supporters, but seeing it from the Trump supporters is a funny bonus. IRONIC!

 
[scooter] said:
Of course the deck was stacked against Sanders. But Sanders knew that before he even decided to switch his party affiliation to Democrat. Hate the game, not the player.

It's funny to watch Trump supporters twist and gyrate to defend every example of Trump gaming the system, and then cry foul about Hillary doing it with the DNC.

I mean, I expect the "It's not fair!" whining from the Sanders supporters, but seeing it from the Trump supporters is a funny bonus. IRONIC!
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I put Bernie's loss on him not starting his campaign sooner.  I ended up voting for him but barely knew who he was when he declared he was running.

 
[scooter] said:
Of course the deck was stacked against Sanders. But Sanders knew that before he even decided to switch his party affiliation to Democrat. Hate the game, not the player.

It's funny to watch Trump supporters twist and gyrate to defend every example of Trump gaming the system, and then cry foul about Hillary doing it with the DNC.

I mean, I expect the "It's not fair!" whining from the Sanders supporters, but seeing it from the Trump supporters is a funny bonus. IRONIC!
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My only issue with this is that the Republicans and Democrats take federal funds to hold their primaries, but do not allow for a level playing field.. By taking federal funding, the parties should be mandated to have an impartial nominating process.

 
Tuesday/Wednesday is going to be the end of Hillary's campaign, apparently. This whole Trump taxes thing is going to be minor compared to the bomb that Assange is going to throw down. Can't wait to see why he is waiting so long to drop this bomb.

This place is fantastic for truth and justice... https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/

 
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Mario Kart said:
Tuesday/Wednesday is going to be the end of Hillary's campaign, apparently. This whole Trump taxes thing is going to be minor compared to the bomb that Assange is going to throw down. Can't wait to see why he is waiting so long to drop this bomb.

This place is fantastic for truth and justice... https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/
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LOL at calling the NY Times "hypocrites" because it also lost $1 billion.

Oh, you mean the same NY Times that Trump labeled as a "failure"?

"If you lose $1 billion, you must be a failure". Yep, sounds about right.

 
Mario Kart said:
Tuesday/Wednesday is going to be the end of Hillary's campaign, apparently. This whole Trump taxes thing is going to be minor compared to the bomb that Assange is going to throw down. Can't wait to see why he is waiting so long to drop this bomb.

This place is fantastic for truth and justice... https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/
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The end of Hillary's campaign has been postponed, apparently. :lol:

The HillVerified account ‏@thehill 47m47 minutes ago

WikiLeaks cancels announcement expected to be about Clinton over security concerns:

report http://hill.cm/bVjrxVM
 
The tanks were ordered so the people who build tanks could keep their jobs. Taking money out of defense affects private citizen employment significantly. Our military spending is a subsidy on the manufacturing economy. 

 
Trump - disqualified due to multiple statements, with the most egregious being the claim that the military will just do what he tells them, even if it is illegal.

Clinton - disqualified for lying to the Benghazi families and viciously slut shaming Bill's women.

Stein - disqualified for being a watermelon, green on the outside, red on the inside.

Johnson - not particularly libertarian, and Weld is a disaster, but the choice by process of elimination.

Worst election choices ever.

 
Soonerman said:
Trump - disqualified due to multiple statements, with the most egregious being the claim that the military will just do what he tells them, even if it is illegal.

Clinton - disqualified for lying to the Benghazi families and viciously slut shaming Bill's women.
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:lmao:

 
Soonerman said:
Trump - disqualified due to multiple statements, with the most egregious being the claim that the military will just do what he tells them, even if it is illegal.

Clinton - disqualified for lying to the Benghazi families and viciously slut shaming Bill's women.

Stein - disqualified for being a watermelon, green on the outside, red on the inside.

Johnson - not particularly libertarian, and Weld is a disaster, but the choice by process of elimination.

Worst election choices ever.
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Hillary did not lie to the Benghazi families. This has been debunked again and again. 

 
timschochet said:
Hillary did not lie to the Benghazi families. This has been debunked again and again. 
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Of course she lied. She said "We will arrest the person who made that film", which is probably the worst lie that was ever told in the history of humanity. Because of that lie, four people were retroactively killed. Anyone who dares to contradict this is just part of the vast left wing conspiracy and is not a true patriot.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
She donated 100K to own her charity and wrote it off her own taxes.  She's a lying cheat too that loves taxing everyone else but not paying them herself.  Trump is bad but you're candidate is in the same pond of scum as him.
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Are you saying that Hillary is not allowed to write off charitable donations on her taxes?  :confused:

 
timschochet said:
There's a reason why Obamacare wasn't mentioned at the first debate: because none of the Republican predictions of gloom and doom have happened: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-predicted-an-obamacare-apocalypse-it-hasnt-happened/2016/09/30/7fa2c6c6-8709-11e6-a3ef-f35afb41797f_story.html?utm_term=.53353a5bfb8d
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I literally know no one that likes it.  Everyone I know in the "middle class" is getting bent over with much higher costs and much worse service.  It's a disaster but it's accomplishing what Obama wanted in terms of redistribution of wealth.

 
timschochet said:
There's a reason why Obamacare wasn't mentioned at the first debate: because none of the Republican predictions of gloom and doom have happened: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-predicted-an-obamacare-apocalypse-it-hasnt-happened/2016/09/30/7fa2c6c6-8709-11e6-a3ef-f35afb41797f_story.html?utm_term=.53353a5bfb8d
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Premiums, Copays and Deductibles are SKYROCKETING, Coops are collapsing and going defunct and major insurers are exiting the exchanges but they're going to tell us it's NOT collapsing? :lmao:  

The WP is like the band on the Titanic.

 
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timschochet said:
There's a reason why Obamacare wasn't mentioned at the first debate: because none of the Republican predictions of gloom and doom have happened: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republicans-predicted-an-obamacare-apocalypse-it-hasnt-happened/2016/09/30/7fa2c6c6-8709-11e6-a3ef-f35afb41797f_story.html?utm_term=.53353a5bfb8d
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Probably under 10 million on the exchange at the moment

premiums looking to be up 25 percent next year

 majority of the coops went under

private carriers bailing left and right

you may be even more clueless than trump and Hillary combined

 
Coeur de Lion said:
He'll get back to you when he's done masturbating to Breitbart.
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Meh.  I masturbate to Breitbart.  You masturbate to Daily Kos and Think Progress.  No big deal.  We're both masturbating.

In all reality, though, I don't ever read Breitbart but I'll play along with you for ####s and giggles.

 
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Was expecting SNL to lean heavily against Trump last night and while they did they were equally brutal to Hillary.  The writing skews Millenial and I'm encouraged that they are woke and understand the dangers that Hillary and Globalism represent, and how stuck they feel.  

 
BassNBrew said:
Probably under 10 million on the exchange at the moment

premiums looking to be up 25 percent next year

 majority of the coops went under

private carriers bailing left and right

you may be even more clueless than trump and Hillary combined
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That article is a prime example of bias and gross negligence.  Ignoring everything to tow the party line and pretend everything is unicorns and roses.

 
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