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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (3 Viewers)

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timschochet said:
It must be nice to be consistently confident all the way through. I certainly wasn't. I'm not 100% confident even now (though lets say I'm about 95% sure, which is pretty good.)

But back in late August and early September I really thought Trump had a decent shot to win this thing. That's when 538 had him had him at 49%, and he was gaining each day. A lot of experts at the time were predicting a Trump victory, particularly after Hillary collapsed on September 11. I hoped that Trump would destroy himself in the debates. But I didn't know. I don't think anyone knew, despite how much they pretend to now.
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Well that's because you're either uninformed or a moron...aka Hillary fan.

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
How is that risky strategic decision of hooking her wagon to Obama looking right now?

Oh, sure it was inevitable back then that Obama's polling numbers were going through the roof and that the economy wasn't going to collapse.
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I don't think it was that risky. In fact, I think it would have been far riskier of her to run away from Obama. I still don't understand Gore's decision to run away from Bill Clinton in 2000. McCain moving away from Bush in 2008 makes more sense, but it still didn't help him any.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
- Well before January 2015 Hillary was already known to be running for president. At which point - at Hillary's behest - the Foundation approached the King of Morocco about a $12 million donation.

I really don't know why she struggled against an orange tomato can with a raging narcissism problem and zero political experience. Weird, it's like people were hesitant or something?
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"Struggled"???  LOL.  She's dominating this race.  

 
tommy is absolutely right. Several people here predicted with great confidence that Hillary would lose to Donald Trump, that by supporting Hillary over Bernie we were guaranteeing a Trump victory. Those people know who they are.

 
Request: what are the most credible and comprehensive sources that chronicle the timeline of Hillary and Company's actions throughout the email saga, from the time Justin Cooper established the domain until evidence was destroyed with hammers?  How would you provide a primer for someone to understand the intent and actions of all parties?  

Hard to find a good summary of where we stand.  

 
Rich Conway said:
You can argue that she's incredibly qualified.  Reasonable people might disagree on just how qualified she is to be POTUS.

You can argue that she'll make a good President.  Reasonable people might disagree on just how effective she'll be.

You can argue that she's not especially corrupt (as compared to generic politicians).  Reasonable people might disagree on just how corrupt she is.

But don't argue that she's a good "candidate".  She's a terrible "candidate".  She can't get out of her own way when campaigning.  She stumbles and makes unforced errors at every conceivable opportunity.  Her disdain for average Americans shows through constantly.  Even timschochet has admitted multiple times that she's a terrible campaigner.
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Tim's wrong.  Clinton is flawed, but so is virtually every candidate in history.  Clinton's flaws have simply been highlighted by Fox News in bold font for 25 years.

At some point, when she keeps winning, perhaps it's time for some of you guys to re-evaluate your position.  

 
Slapdash said:
Generic Republican would be beating Hillary.  That is pretty obvious and has been for some time
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But generic Dem, especially with Obamas recent popularity surge, beats many if not all the Rep options we had going this time.  Demographics and the extreme positoins of even the "moderates" in the Republican Party make it more likely a middle road but not with the hate and vitriol attaches as Hillary would likely be an advantage.

Or, it could have been Bernie - that would be interesting to watch.  Bernie vs. Cruz.  Ooof.  I mean, I appreciate what Bernie brought to the table, but, yeeeks.   Cruz still creeps me out, too.

 
Koya said:
But generic Dem, especially with Obamas recent popularity surge, beats many if not all the Rep options we had going this time.  Demographics and the extreme positoins of even the "moderates" in the Republican Party make it more likely a middle road but not with the hate and vitriol attaches as Hillary would likely be an advantage.

Or, it could have been Bernie - that would be interesting to watch.  Bernie vs. Cruz.  Ooof.  I mean, I appreciate what Bernie brought to the table, but, yeeeks.   Cruz still creeps me out, too.
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Right.  Both Clinton and Trump are much worse than a generic member of their respective parties would be doing.  Neither is a good campaigner or candidate

 
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Fits

The classic Hollywood example of rationality is the Vulcans from Star Trek. They are depicted as an ultra-rational race that has eschewed all emotion from their lives.

But is this truly rational? What is rationality?

A “Straw Vulcan”—an idea originally defined on TV Tropes—is a straw man used to show that emotion is better than logic. Traditionally, you have your ‘rational’ character who thinks perfectly ‘logically’, but then ends up running into trouble, having problems, or failing to achieve what they were trying to achieve.

These characters have a sort of fake rationality. They don’t fail because rationality failed, but because they aren’t actually being rational. Straw Vulcan rationality is not the same thing as actual rationality.

"
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Tell mother I feel fine.

 
tommyGunZ said:
Agreed.  She should be crucified for philanthropy that has saved millions of lives.  Damn her!
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It's not mutually exclusive to have an entity that does positive things and to use said entity illegally to curry favors, enhance financial and political position, and influence policy.  

 
Slapdash said:
Right.  Both Clinton and Trump are much worse than a generic member of their respective parties would be doing.  Neither is a good campaigner or candidate
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Let's be honest, the current system weeds out the very people you'd want to run for the position.  

It's almost as if those who have the hubris to think THEY should be PRESIDENT are the very people you don't want being President.  Not to mention the disgusting nature of so much that is Politics (not all, but a lot) and barriers to getting anything done, let alone done the right way - you think Bill Gates is thinking about running for President? Or a President Warrent Buffet (a couple decades ago, guys awesome but no spring chicken)?

Instead, we get a by-product of a system designed to propagate the system itself, and an orange hued pseudo-mogul who pails in comparison to two names I thought of within 3 seconds.

 
tommyGunZ said:
The generic Republicans that Trump trounced?  
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Yep.  Anyone in the Kaisch/Ryan/Romney mold.  Probably Cruz or Rubio too. 

Trump's unique personality and nativism has alienated large parts of the GOP base (college-educated whites) and made him toxic to needed minority groups to swing the election.

He has always faced this cap in upside, even in the primaries.  His favorability ratings have shown this for over a year...

 
Hillary win still trading at only $0.83 on election markets on a few different teases. Crazy. Such easy money. Even Nate Silver has called it a virtual lock.

 
Slapdash said:
Yep.  Anyone in the Kaisch/Ryan/Romney mold.  Probably Cruz or Rubio too. 

Trump's unique personality and nativism has alienated large parts of the GOP base (college-educated whites) and made him toxic to needed minority groups to swing the election.

He has always faced this cap in upside, even in the primaries.  His favorability ratings have shown this for over a year...
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Primary voters vary significantly from those in the general.

 
timschochet said:
I have a question for conservatives who agree with Donald Trump about illegal immigration (you needn't agree with his specifics on the issue, but let's say you agree with his views in general):

Suppose Hillary as promised pushes an immigration reform bill, with a path to citizenship for illegals, during her first 100 days. Suppose further that the Republican establishment leaders in Congress led by Paul Ryan, seeking to end Latino opposition to the GOP, go along with it, and the bill is passed by a bipartisan group: all Democrats and the Republican leadership. Illegal immigrants are given legal recognition and a form of eventual amnesty.

What happens next? Does the Republican base swallow it? Will they try to "priimary" every Republican that voted for it, and will they be successful? Will the Tea Party Republicans split off from the GOP and form their own party? I'm curious what your thoughts are because I think this confrontation is very possible.
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If I'm a Rep I bring up to the black voters that Hillary jails your family for smoking weed and gives people who commit illegal acts full citizenship.  I also start bringing in people on the wait list who are playing by the rules to campaign for me.  I don't think this is really a partisan issue as much as it's made out to be.

 
Slapdash said:
Yep.  Anyone in the Kaisch/Ryan/Romney mold.  Probably Cruz or Rubio too. 

Trump's unique personality and nativism has alienated large parts of the GOP base (college-educated whites) and made him toxic to needed minority groups to swing the election.

He has always faced this cap in upside, even in the primaries.  His favorability ratings have shown this for over a year...
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You act like nativism and his "unique personality" (i.e. Tea Party simplistic worldview) aren't coveted by the GOP base. 

 
BassNBrew said:
If I'm a Rep I bring up to the black voters that Hillary jails your family for smoking weed and gives people who commit illegal acts full citizenship.  I also start bringing in people on the wait list who are playing by the rules to campaign for me.  I don't think this is really a partisan issue as much as it's made out to be.
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Trump has already those 5 black voters.

 
BassNBrew said:
If I'm a Rep I bring up to the black voters that Hillary jails your family for smoking weed and gives people who commit illegal acts full citizenship.  I also start bringing in people on the wait list who are playing by the rules to campaign for me.  I don't think this is really a partisan issue as much as it's made out to be.
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:lmao:

 
tommyGunZ said:
You act like nativism and his "unique personality" (i.e. Tea Party simplistic worldview) aren't coveted by the GOP base. 
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A portion of it, maybe a large portion of the Republican party.  But those guys are voting for any conceivable Republican who gets the nomination

 
Matthias said:
Primary voters vary significantly from those in the general.
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Yes. The idea that Kasich wouldn't beat Hillary because Trump crushed him in the primary seems dubious. Trump would have crushed Hillary in the Republican primary as well, but that says nothing about whether he'll beat her in the general.

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
Yes. The idea that Kasich wouldn't beat Hillary because Trump crushed him in the primary seems dubious. Trump would have crushed Hillary in the Republican primary as well, but that says nothing about whether he'll beat her in the general.
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I think the idea that a candidate who got ~ 2% of Republican primary votes would have beaten Hillary in the general is far more dubious.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
I think the idea that a candidate who got ~ 2% of Republican primary votes would have beaten Hillary in the general is far more dubious.  
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Kasich would've killed her. The other 98% of Rs would have voted for him. And lots of pissed off Ds.

 
tommyGunZ said:
Kasich hasn't been under the microscope.  You think the Trump base would have been fired up for a moderate?  
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The Trump base would be fired up for anyone who wasn't Hillary. The trick in the primaries is to try to hoodwink those folks without getting too much of their stench on you for the general. Trump just went in and #### and showered in it.

 
tommyGunZ said:
I think the idea that a candidate who got ~ 2% of Republican primary votes would have beaten Hillary in the general is far more dubious.  
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If he were eligible and decided to switch parties, Obama would have gotten less than 2% of Republican primary votes but would have probably beaten Hillary in the general. My point isn't that Kasich would have beaten Hillary in the general. My point is that Kasich's failure in the Republican primary is rather poor evidence that he wouldn't have beaten Hillary in the general. I would use a different argument to support that position.

 
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tommyGunZ said:
Kasich hasn't been under the microscope.  You think the Trump base would have been fired up for a moderate?  
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Trumps base is so far to the right of the spectrum they would never vote for a democrat. They've been voting for RINOs for years. 

 
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