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Official Hillary Clinton 2016 thread (5 Viewers)

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SaintsInDome2006 said:
I myself have been banging the Trump/Russia drum for quite some time. However, something I find oddly missing from the Hillary supporters when they raise this is any sort of statement about Russia as a threat to the US. What is the problem, with Russia, exactly, in terms of geopolitical politics? I have strong feelings about this and IMO it's based on the long view of Russian history by which I mean pre-WW1 to now. Oddly enough I think Hillary being essentially a Scoop Jackson Democrat probably has feelings more in line with mine than most of her supporters.

Do any Hillary supporters now agree that Romney was right about Russia being a geopolitical foe of the US, or are they going to stick with Obama's snarky comment about the '80s calling and asking for their policy back'? Anyone feel differently now? Things have changed, right? Have we seen enough now to know he was right?
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My problem is not with Russia nor it's relative recent surge (not sure it's really a rise to be honest, and there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on there)- it's with the welcoming by many here in the States of her actions, even if those actions are directed against their political foe. 

Honestly, Russia's being Russia.  Pound the chest, feel important. Invade neighbors because you know no one is going to REALLY do anything about it.   But there is way too much for way too many people in Russia to lose for them to risk upsetting the global apple cart too much.  It's still a small circle of wealth and power, but that network is a lot more vast and a LOT more internationally integrated than during the Cold War.  A LOT of that money is U.S. related - originating in/from the U.S. and/or its close allies and those dependent on the US politically and/or economically.

So the drunk bear will bluster.  It's in her interest for us to look worse than we actually fare.

 
Koya said:
My problem is not with Russia nor it's relative recent surge (not sure it's really a rise to be honest, and there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on there)- it's with the welcoming by many here in the States of her actions, even if those actions are directed against their political foe. 

Honestly, Russia's being Russia.  Pound the chest, feel important. Invade neighbors because you know no one is going to REALLY do anything about it.   But there is way too much for way too many people in Russia to lose for them to risk upsetting the global apple cart too much.  It's still a small circle of wealth and power, but that network is a lot more vast and a LOT more internationally integrated than during the Cold War.  A LOT of that money is U.S. related - originating in/from the U.S. and/or its close allies and those dependent on the US politically and/or economically.

So the drunk bear will bluster.  It's in her interest for us to look worse than we actually fare.
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See, don't you think this is a little contradictory? Trump and Trumpites cooperating with Russia are traitorous useful fools, but hey Russia is just a drunken bear following its aggressive but ultimately harmless (to us) nature and not really a geopolitical enemy? So Trump gets in power and he's a Russian cuck-puppet and.... so what, Russia isn't doing anything anyway?

Talking policy, I see NATO, our influence in western Europe, our place in the middle east, control of energy reserves, and our allies in Poland, Ukraine, the Baltics and Balkans, and maybe even our own safety from war, hanging in the balance. Russia's influence over Trump has to matter. IMO the comp to Hitler is way outta line, but the comp to Lenin sent by the Germans in a sealed boxcar to St. Petersburg seems more appropriate. The point there was to get Russia out of WW1 and world affairs and that was accomplished.

 
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This is the exact kind of scandal meltdown Clinton voters dismissed. Wasn't possible. Couldn't happen. Trump is going to civil trial on rape charges. He is going to trial on racketeering charges. And a crap storm of her own making is consuming Hillary's candidacy.

Can't say you weren't warned.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
See, don't you think this is a little contradictory? Trump and Trumpites cooperating with Russia are traitorous useful fools, but hey Russia is just a drunken bear following its aggressive but ultimately harmless (to us) nature and not really a geopolitical enemy? So Trump gets in power and he's a Russian cuck-puppet and.... so what, Russia isn't doing anything anyway?

Talking policy, I see NATO, our influence in western Europe, our place in the middle east, control of energy reserves, and our allies in Poland, Ukraine, the Baltics and Balkans, and maybe even our own safety from war, hanging in the balance. Russia's influence over Trump has to matter. IMO the comp to Hitler is way outta line, but the comp to Lenin sent by the Germans in a sealed boxcar to St. Petersburg seems more appropriate. The point there was to get Russia out of WW1 and world affairs and that was accomplished.
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Not contradictory... Russia is still going to want a relative transfer of power in their direction. That's not good for us. Doesn't mean they want armageddon, including economic. 

The fact that Trump has acted the way he has, though, makes you question how susceptible he is to literally being played by folks far better at this particular brand of poker than the stakes he generally plays in.  The useful idiot term comes back to mind. 

Russia's aggression in the Ukraine would almost undoubtedly restart and I don't see stopping... do you agree? I'm hardly an expert on that matter, but it seems a logical and likely outcome.  Somehow positioned as part of Trumps grand plan. 

 
NCCommish said:
This is the exact kind of scandal meltdown Clinton voters dismissed. Wasn't possible. Couldn't happen. Trump is going to civil trial on rape charges. He is going to trial on racketeering charges. And a crap storm of her own making is consuming Hillary's candidacy.

Can't say you weren't warned.
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I know a good deal of Clinton voters who knew and feared just this.  My wife, a former bernie nut, is one of them. 

That said, my wrath at the Dem party is nearly unchecked.  Political malfeasance for them to allow this* to happen. 

* this is Hillary being the Candidate coming off a very popular somehow Obama.

 
Emails Say: "We need to dump emails" 

(emails deleted from server) 

HRC Backers "they meant dump them into public view"

:mellow:

Is that seriously the party line on this one? No shtick? 

 
Koya said:
I know a good deal of Clinton voters who knew and feared just this.  My wife, a former bernie nut, is one of them. 

That said, my wrath at the Dem party is nearly unchecked.  Political malfeasance for them to allow this* to happen. 

* this is Hillary being the Candidate coming off a very popular somehow Obama.
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It just makes me sad to think of what we could've had. Well we'll see. Trump has several days left to screw up again 

 
Just an observation:

- Everyone sees the emails vs 'Russia/Putin' leak-off going on between the Hillary and Trump camps and their supporters. It's here in this thread too.

I myself have been banging the Trump/Russia drum for quite some time. However, something I find oddly missing from the Hillary supporters when they raise this is any sort of statement about Russia as a threat to the US. What is the problem, with Russia, exactly, in terms of geopolitical politics? I have strong feelings about this and IMO it's based on the long view of Russian history by which I mean pre-WW1 to now. Oddly enough I think Hillary being essentially a Scoop Jackson Democrat probably has feelings more in line with mine than most of her supporters.

Do any Hillary supporters now agree that Romney was right about Russia being a geopolitical foe of the US, or are they going to stick with Obama's snarky comment about the '80s calling and asking for their policy back'? Anyone feel differently now? Things have changed, right? Have we seen enough now to know he was right?
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Romney may or may not have been correct about Russia, but he phrased it in a way that left him looking like he was out of touch. He was obviously trying to scare people into voting for him, but instead he came off like a relic from the '80s.

(BTW, the correct answer to the question of America's #1 geopolitical foe is "RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM". Even if that's technically not a geopolitical entity, it's still the correct answer. When in doubt, say "9/11".)

Anyway, I don't think it's wise to label a potential trading partner as a "foe". I mean, one of the Mission Statements of capitalism is that the free market leads to free societies, right? We've been encouraging the development of capitalism in former 2nd-world countries like China and Russia on the belief that it will eventually lead to democracy. So we can't really stop now, especially with so much American business invested into emerging markets.

 
Koya said:
Russia's aggression in the Ukraine would almost undoubtedly restart and I don't see stopping... do you agree? I'm hardly an expert on that matter, but it seems a logical and likely outcome.  Somehow positioned as part of Trumps grand plan. 
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I think with a Pres. Trump Russia goes right into (the rest of) Ukraine and foments unrest in Moldova, the Balkans and maybe elsewhere in Central and Eastern Europe. I think Trump would give them the all-ok sign.

 
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NCCommish said:
This is the exact kind of scandal meltdown Clinton voters dismissed. Wasn't possible. Couldn't happen. Trump is going to civil trial on rape charges. He is going to trial on racketeering charges. And a crap storm of her own making is consuming Hillary's candidacy.

Can't say you weren't warned.
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Again and again and again and...

The machine was just too formidable, the excuse-making too habitual. 

 
Everyone take a deep breath. Tomorrow's Marquette poll tells the tell. If Wisconsin margin is super tight then panic. Until then, firewall is in tact. 

I still think she wins NC and Florida for the record. 

 
Hey all of you Bernie fans: 

I don't apologize for a ####### thing. If we Hillary supporters blew it oh well. We all had reasons for supporting her over Bernie. I've given you mine several times. 

If Hillary ends up losing this thing, it's not her fault, or my fault, or your fault: the fault lies SOLELY on those who voted for Donald Trump. They are the only ones in this mess who can't be excused, because no matter what you think of Hillary Clinton there is no excuse, ever, for voting for a man like that for President. 

As for me, my intentions were good and honorable for supporting Hillary over Bernie Sanders, so screw anybody who says otherwise. I'm with her and proud of it. 

 
timschochet said:
Hey all of you Bernie fans: 

I don't apologize for a ####### thing. If we Hillary supporters blew it oh well. We all had reasons for supporting her over Bernie. I've given you mine several times. 

If Hillary ends up losing this thing, it's not her fault, or my fault, or your fault: the fault lies SOLELY on those who voted for Donald Trump. They are the only ones in this mess who can't be excused, because no matter what you think of Hillary Clinton there is no excuse, ever, for voting for a man like that for President. 

As for me, my intentions were good and honorable for supporting Hillary over Bernie Sanders, so screw anybody who says otherwise. I'm with her and proud of it. 
Click to expand...
:lmao:

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving

 
timschochet said:
Hey all of you Bernie fans: 

I don't apologize for a ####### thing. If we Hillary supporters blew it oh well. We all had reasons for supporting her over Bernie. I've given you mine several times. 

If Hillary ends up losing this thing, it's not her fault, or my fault, or your fault: the fault lies SOLELY on those who voted for Donald Trump. They are the only ones in this mess who can't be excused, because no matter what you think of Hillary Clinton there is no excuse, ever, for voting for a man like that for President. 

As for me, my intentions were good and honorable for supporting Hillary over Bernie Sanders, so screw anybody who says otherwise. I'm with her and proud of it. 
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You have this genuine belief and there are MANY out there who have a genuine belief that they need to protect the country from Clinton and that there is no excuse for voting for her.  You guys are all rowing the same boat from different sides at this point, going around and around and around in circles.

ETA:  And I don't place "fault" on anyone, but here's the thing that you will never be able to ignore.  Trump is probably the absolute lowest bar I could ever imagine setting for someone to defeat.  This is like Jordan playing a four year old in HORSE.  If she can't clear that bar, she doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the Presidency.

 
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timschochet said:
Hey all of you Bernie fans: 

I don't apologize for a ####### thing. If we Hillary supporters blew it oh well. We all had reasons for supporting her over Bernie. I've given you mine several times. 

If Hillary ends up losing this thing, it's not her fault, or my fault, or your fault: the fault lies SOLELY on those who voted for Donald Trump. They are the only ones in this mess who can't be excused, because no matter what you think of Hillary Clinton there is no excuse, ever, for voting for a man like that for President. 

As for me, my intentions were good and honorable for supporting Hillary over Bernie Sanders, so screw anybody who says otherwise. I'm with her and proud of it. 
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Way to stay cool, Tim.

 
Trey said:
Everyone take a deep breath. Tomorrow's Marquette poll tells the tell. If Wisconsin margin is super tight then panic. Until then, firewall is in tact. 

I still think she wins NC and Florida for the record. 
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I still think she wins all three. But the other usual suspects will be staying red.

 
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jonessed said:
He generally tries to hide his disdain for those that don't agree with him, 
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That's because I generally don't feel disdain for those who disagree with me. In the case of Trump supporters, however, I do. 

But disdain is not my main emotion here. Depression and sadness is. If you're not paying attention, I can get that. If you're a stupid person I can forgive that as well. 

But if you are a reasonably intelligent person who has paid attention to Donald Trump and you are voting for him, I don't forgive you. As I wrote, there is no possible justification for it. 

 
timschochet said:
That's because I generally don't feel disdain for those who disagree with me. In the case of Trump supporters, however, I do. 

But disdain is not my main emotion here. Depression and sadness is. If you're not paying attention, I can get that. If you're a stupid person I can forgive that as well. 

But if you are a reasonably intelligent person who has paid attention to Donald Trump and you are voting for him, I don't forgive you. As I wrote, there is no possible justification for it. 
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You're not in any position to judge anyone's intelligence level with your blind following of one of the country's biggest criminals.  But carry on with the over the top Tobias/Koya/Squistion level drama.  No one is impressed.

 
timschochet said:
Hey all of you Bernie fans: 

I don't apologize for a ####### thing. If we Hillary supporters blew it oh well. We all had reasons for supporting her over Bernie. I've given you mine several times. 

If Hillary ends up losing this thing, it's not her fault, or my fault, or your fault: the fault lies SOLELY on those who voted for Donald Trump. They are the only ones in this mess who can't be excused, because no matter what you think of Hillary Clinton there is no excuse, ever, for voting for a man like that for President. 

As for me, my intentions were good and honorable for supporting Hillary over Bernie Sanders, so screw anybody who says otherwise. I'm with her and proud of it. 
Click to expand...
oh ya babay ,, now we are talking some politacs. yyyyyyyyyyeaaaaaaaaaa!

 
Momentum is a powerful thing.  Hillary really needs Trump to say or do something really stupid again soon.  I don't think she has the charisma to change the tide without some serious help.

Not that I think Trump would become the favorite, but I can see him getting this to a toss-up if this trend continues.

 
[icon] said:
Emails Say: "We need to dump emails" 

(emails deleted from server) 

HRC Backers "they meant dump them into public view"

:mellow:

Is that seriously the party line on this one? No shtick? 
Click to expand...
Bump. Can I get confirmation this is the party line response to this leaked email? 

 
jonessed said:
Momentum is a powerful thing.  Hillary really needs Trump to say or do something really stupid again soon.  I don't think she has the charisma to change the tide without some serious help.

Not that I think Trump would become the favorite, but I can see him getting this to a toss-up if this trend continues.
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In my opinion, Hillary overreacted and made this a bigger deal.  She should have downplayed it as much as possible before the election.  It is a little late to #### now.

 
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timschochet said:
Hey all of you Bernie fans: 

I don't apologize for a ####### thing. If we Hillary supporters blew it oh well. We all had reasons for supporting her over Bernie. I've given you mine several times. 

If Hillary ends up losing this thing, it's not her fault, or my fault, or your fault: the fault lies SOLELY on those who voted for Donald Trump. They are the only ones in this mess who can't be excused, because no matter what you think of Hillary Clinton there is no excuse, ever, for voting for a man like that for President. 

As for me, my intentions were good and honorable for supporting Hillary over Bernie Sanders, so screw anybody who says otherwise. I'm with her and proud of it. 
Click to expand...
Oh well? You may have handed this country to Trump and oh well? Yeah it is your fault if it comes to pass.  Thanks.

 
Chris Matthews being really tough on Hillary tonight on Hardball.  Played some clips of her attacking Trump and asking the panel what happened to "When they go low, we go high"? Played additional clips where Hillary is saying Trump could start WWIII and then had clips where Hillary says Trump is Putin's puppet...asking which is it, is Trump a puppet or is he going to start WWIII with Russia?

 
timschochet said:
If Hillary ends up losing this thing, it's not her fault, or my fault, or your fault: the fault lies SOLELY on those who voted for Donald Trump. They are the only ones in this mess who can't be excused, because no matter what you think of Hillary Clinton there is no excuse, ever, for voting for a man like that for President. 

As for me, my intentions were good and honorable for supporting Hillary over Bernie Sanders, so screw anybody who says otherwise. I'm with her and proud of it. 
Click to expand...
Uh oh...I laughed and peed a little bit  :lmao:

So, if Trump loses...it's not HIS fault either?  It's the fault of those who didn't vote for him?  :lmao:

Whoops....there it goes again.   :doh:

I gotta go home and change my britches.  :mellow:

NEVER SAY DIE!

 
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Baloney Sandwich said:
Chris Matthews being really tough on Hillary tonight on Hardball.  Played some clips of her attacking Trump and asking the panel what happened to "When they go low, we go high"? Played additional clips where Hillary is saying Trump could start WWIII and then had clips where Hillary says Trump is Putin's puppet...asking which is it, is Trump a puppet or is he going to start WWIII with Russia?
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He better hope Trump wins. Clintons don't forget.

 
Opie said:
Uh oh...I laughed and peed a little bit  :lmao:

So, if Trump loses...it's not HIS fault?  It's the fault of those who didn't vote for him?  :lmao:

Whoops....there it goes again.   :doh:

I gotta go home and change my britches.  :mellow:
Click to expand...
Tim can hold on to the believe that Hillary could have been a great President because she won't get a chance to prove him wrong.

 
timschochet said:
Hey all of you Bernie fans: 

I don't apologize for a ####### thing. If we Hillary supporters blew it oh well. We all had reasons for supporting her over Bernie. I've given you mine several times. 

If Hillary ends up losing this thing, it's not her fault, or my fault, or your fault: the fault lies SOLELY on those who voted for Donald Trump. They are the only ones in this mess who can't be excused, because no matter what you think of Hillary Clinton there is no excuse, ever, for voting for a man like that for President. 

As for me, my intentions were good and honorable for supporting Hillary over Bernie Sanders, so screw anybody who says otherwise. I'm with her and proud of it. 
Click to expand...
Remember months ago when I said Clinton/Trump was going to go down to the wire if they were the candidates, and you thought I was crazy? Weird election.

 
It's time for sane people to come together to not necessarily do what's popular, but what's right. 

Clinton supporters, Barack supporters, Bernie supporters, Kasich supporters. Heck, sane Trump supporters. Let's get her in and complain later. The Trump outcome is that bad. This isn't obvious?

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
Chris Matthews being really tough on Hillary tonight on Hardball.  Played some clips of her attacking Trump and asking the panel what happened to "When they go low, we go high"? Played additional clips where Hillary is saying Trump could start WWIII and then had clips where Hillary says Trump is Putin's puppet...asking which is it, is Trump a puppet or is he going to start WWIII with Russia?
Click to expand...
WWIII doesn't have to necessarily have to start with Russia 

 
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Remember when some said Hillary was the most qualified presidential candidate ever?  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I'm pretty sure "the most qualified presidential candidate ever" would have lapped someone as inept as Trump by now like 20 times.  I still think she'll win, but the fact that it's such a struggle just shows how terrible she is.  

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
It's time for sane people to come together to not necessarily do what's popular, but what's right. 

Clinton supporters, Barack supporters, Bernie supporters, Kasich supporters. Heck, sane Trump supporters. Let's get her in and complain later. The Trump outcome is that bad. This isn't obvious?
Click to expand...
You had me until the last 3 sentences. 

 
Baloney Sandwich said:
Chris Matthews being really tough on Hillary tonight on Hardball.  Played some clips of her attacking Trump and asking the panel what happened to "When they go low, we go high"? Played additional clips where Hillary is saying Trump could start WWIII and then had clips where Hillary says Trump is Putin's puppet...asking which is it, is Trump a puppet or is he going to start WWIII with Russia?
Click to expand...
Hey Chris, there are other countries with nuclear weapons.  HTH.

 
Rohn Jambo said:
In my opinion, Hillary overreacted and made this a bigger deal.  She should have downplayed it as much as possible before the election.  It is a little late to #### now.
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Yes, she did.  Trashing Comey after praising him less than a month earlier came off as hackish.  She then followed it up with layer after layer of vitriol.  It was a good display of a lot of her bad qualities.

 
Ghost Rider said:
Remember when some said Hillary was the most qualified presidential candidate ever?  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I'm pretty sure "the most qualified presidential candidate ever" would have lapped someone as inept as Trump by now like 20 times.  I still think she'll win, but the fact that it's such a struggle just shows how terrible she is.  
Click to expand...
Someone can be highly qualified but make a poor candidate due to character issues.

 
timschochet said:
That's because I generally don't feel disdain for those who disagree with me. In the case of Trump supporters, however, I do. 

But disdain is not my main emotion here. Depression and sadness is. If you're not paying attention, I can get that. If you're a stupid person I can forgive that as well. 

But if you are a reasonably intelligent person who has paid attention to Donald Trump and you are voting for him, I don't forgive you. As I wrote, there is no possible justification for it. 
Click to expand...
Tim, why did Dems like Obama and Elizabeth Warren unfollow Hillary?

https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=hillary unfollowed&ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^search

 
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