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*** Official Jaguars Thread - Team Putting #DTWD to The Test *** (2 Viewers)

Warpig said:
They gave up a top 10 left tackle for a 5th and 6th! If they could get a 5th or 6th for MJD I'd consider that a win. As I said earlier, stockpile the picks and jockey in the draft to move up. Or just keep your picks and try to find the next Wes Welker, Alfred Morris, Tom Brady, etc.
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At this point I agree that a 5th or 6th is all you could expect. The frustrating part is that if they had traded Monroe before/during the draft, traded MJD in the off season, shopped other players like Lowery, Marcedes Lewis, Poz, Babin, Alualu, etc at the right time they could be sitting on a mountain of picks right now. Instead they waited long enough to assure they are getting minimum value for whomever they trade.

 
Wadsworth said:
Warpig said:
They gave up a top 10 left tackle for a 5th and 6th! If they could get a 5th or 6th for MJD I'd consider that a win. As I said earlier, stockpile the picks and jockey in the draft to move up. Or just keep your picks and try to find the next Wes Welker, Alfred Morris, Tom Brady, etc.
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At this point I agree that a 5th or 6th is all you could expect. The frustrating part is that if they had traded Monroe before/during the draft, traded MJD in the off season, shopped other players like Lowery, Marcedes Lewis, Poz, Babin, Alualu, etc at the right time they could be sitting on a mountain of picks right now. Instead they waited long enough to assure they are getting minimum value for whomever they trade.
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So you would have been happy giving up on the season before it even began? Hindsight is 20/20, but I don't think anyone was expecting this level of ineptitude.

As for MJD, he'd certainly have a few suitors, but I agree he wouldn't get more than a 5th (I think a 6th is more likely actually). Still, at this point, why not? Seems to be best for both sides.

 
humpback said:
Wadsworth said:
Warpig said:
They gave up a top 10 left tackle for a 5th and 6th! If they could get a 5th or 6th for MJD I'd consider that a win. As I said earlier, stockpile the picks and jockey in the draft to move up. Or just keep your picks and try to find the next Wes Welker, Alfred Morris, Tom Brady, etc.
Click to expand...
At this point I agree that a 5th or 6th is all you could expect. The frustrating part is that if they had traded Monroe before/during the draft, traded MJD in the off season, shopped other players like Lowery, Marcedes Lewis, Poz, Babin, Alualu, etc at the right time they could be sitting on a mountain of picks right now. Instead they waited long enough to assure they are getting minimum value for whomever they trade.
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So you would have been happy giving up on the season before it even began? Hindsight is 20/20, but I don't think anyone was expecting this level of ineptitude.

As for MJD, he'd certainly have a few suitors, but I agree he wouldn't get more than a 5th (I think a 6th is more likely actually). Still, at this point, why not? Seems to be best for both sides.
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Yes.

 
Wadsworth said:
humpback said:
Wadsworth said:
Warpig said:
They gave up a top 10 left tackle for a 5th and 6th! If they could get a 5th or 6th for MJD I'd consider that a win. As I said earlier, stockpile the picks and jockey in the draft to move up. Or just keep your picks and try to find the next Wes Welker, Alfred Morris, Tom Brady, etc.
Click to expand...
At this point I agree that a 5th or 6th is all you could expect. The frustrating part is that if they had traded Monroe before/during the draft, traded MJD in the off season, shopped other players like Lowery, Marcedes Lewis, Poz, Babin, Alualu, etc at the right time they could be sitting on a mountain of picks right now. Instead they waited long enough to assure they are getting minimum value for whomever they trade.
Click to expand...
So you would have been happy giving up on the season before it even began? Hindsight is 20/20, but I don't think anyone was expecting this level of ineptitude.

As for MJD, he'd certainly have a few suitors, but I agree he wouldn't get more than a 5th (I think a 6th is more likely actually). Still, at this point, why not? Seems to be best for both sides.
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Yes.
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I just checked back in the thread and I didn't see anyone saying they should blow things up during the offseason. If you actually wanted to, you'd be in a very small minority- teams just don't do that.

 
humpback said:
Wadsworth said:
humpback said:
Wadsworth said:
Warpig said:
They gave up a top 10 left tackle for a 5th and 6th! If they could get a 5th or 6th for MJD I'd consider that a win. As I said earlier, stockpile the picks and jockey in the draft to move up. Or just keep your picks and try to find the next Wes Welker, Alfred Morris, Tom Brady, etc.
Click to expand...
At this point I agree that a 5th or 6th is all you could expect. The frustrating part is that if they had traded Monroe before/during the draft, traded MJD in the off season, shopped other players like Lowery, Marcedes Lewis, Poz, Babin, Alualu, etc at the right time they could be sitting on a mountain of picks right now. Instead they waited long enough to assure they are getting minimum value for whomever they trade.
Click to expand...
So you would have been happy giving up on the season before it even began? Hindsight is 20/20, but I don't think anyone was expecting this level of ineptitude.

As for MJD, he'd certainly have a few suitors, but I agree he wouldn't get more than a 5th (I think a 6th is more likely actually). Still, at this point, why not? Seems to be best for both sides.
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Yes.
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I just checked back in the thread and I didn't see anyone saying they should blow things up during the offseason. If you actually wanted to, you'd be in a very small minority- teams just don't do that.
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I am not sure if I went on about blowing it up here or on Jaguars.com or both, but I was in favor of trading everyone they could for picks in 2014 and using 2013 to evaluate current players while bringing in a herd of cheap free agents and practice squad guys from other teams. They were never going to do anything in 2013, it would have saved time making that determination early and starting the rebuild. Anyone they trade now is going to be at poor value, but better late than never I suppose.

 
humpback said:
Wadsworth said:
humpback said:
Wadsworth said:
Warpig said:
They gave up a top 10 left tackle for a 5th and 6th! If they could get a 5th or 6th for MJD I'd consider that a win. As I said earlier, stockpile the picks and jockey in the draft to move up. Or just keep your picks and try to find the next Wes Welker, Alfred Morris, Tom Brady, etc.
Click to expand...
At this point I agree that a 5th or 6th is all you could expect. The frustrating part is that if they had traded Monroe before/during the draft, traded MJD in the off season, shopped other players like Lowery, Marcedes Lewis, Poz, Babin, Alualu, etc at the right time they could be sitting on a mountain of picks right now. Instead they waited long enough to assure they are getting minimum value for whomever they trade.
Click to expand...
So you would have been happy giving up on the season before it even began? Hindsight is 20/20, but I don't think anyone was expecting this level of ineptitude.

As for MJD, he'd certainly have a few suitors, but I agree he wouldn't get more than a 5th (I think a 6th is more likely actually). Still, at this point, why not? Seems to be best for both sides.
Click to expand...
Yes.
Click to expand...
I just checked back in the thread and I didn't see anyone saying they should blow things up during the offseason. If you actually wanted to, you'd be in a very small minority- teams just don't do that.
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While not using the term "blow things up", there are plenty of posts detailing just how little talent was on this roster.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=625623&p=15526007

 
Wadsworth said:
I am not sure if I went on about blowing it up here or on Jaguars.com or both, but I was in favor of trading everyone they could for picks in 2014 and using 2013 to evaluate current players while bringing in a herd of cheap free agents and practice squad guys from other teams. They were never going to do anything in 2013, it would have saved time making that determination early and starting the rebuild. Anyone they trade now is going to be at poor value, but better late than never I suppose.
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Must have been there because I'm not seeing anything about it at all in here. I agree they weren't going to do anything in 2013, but it's hard to evaluate current players when you deal the small amount of talent you have away, isn't it? Agreed about better late than never, which is why MJD is a no-brainer, even if it's for a 7th rounder.

JaxBill said:
While not using the term "blow things up", there are plenty of posts detailing just how little talent was on this roster.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=625623&p=15526007
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Sure, and there were plenty of posts about being excited about the season and draft class too. In any event, saying the team isn't talented is completely different from saying you should trade the few talented players you have away.

Not trying to argue with you guys, just saying it's easy to say these things now, and pointing out that trading everyone away during the off season wasn't a realistic option- even if it's true they would have gotten more then, it just isn't done.

 
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While ther were signs of life, the reality is that we were still trucked by double didgets for the sixth time this year. I was happy to see that they are still playing hard though. With all things being equal, Henne probably showed enough to keep the starting job. However, I think they might give Gabbert another shot to show that he's not the guy (they both aren't, but that's a different topic).

I really hope that Blackmon can keep his head screwed on tight. He looks so much better than he did at any point last year. I hope CS3's injury isn't too bad- the more reps and chemistry that these two can get together will help the next QB develop faster.

Cyprien is bull in a china shop and is kind of all over the place, but the talent is there. If he continues to develop, I think he's going to be a good one.

 
Deep, deep, deep sleeper WR for truly desperate owners looking for one week of production.

Consider that Justin Blackmon has been battling a hamstring injury but is expected to play (but probably won't practice Friday).

Cecil Shorts' shoulder injury has him in a lot of pain.

Ace Sanders and Stephen Burton missed practice with concussion injury. Who knows if they'll play?

So that leaves

aguars receiver Stephen Williams had an eventful past week.

The 6-foot-5, 208-pound Williams was claimed off waivers by the Jaguars on Oct. 7, joined the team two days later for practice and played 10 snaps in Sunday’s 35-19 loss at Denver.

“They brought me here to have an immediate impact,” Williams said. “I knew after the first practice, I was going to play. It’s crazy how fast it’s going. I was here last week for two days and already played. I’m pretty sure I’ll be out there a lot more.”

Williams played the first four games with Seattle this season, then was waived. He has not caught a pass in the NFL since 2010, his rookie year with Arizona. Still, with receivers Justin Blackmon, Cecil Shorts and Stephen Burton battling injuries, Williams could be in line for significant snaps against San Diego on Sunday at EverBank Field.

“His first week here we limited the package for him,” Jaguars coach Gus Bradley said. “We had a few basic routes that said ‘Now, you’re here for four days, here’s what we’re asking you to do.’ Now, we’re putting more on his plate, so that’s his challenge. Can he still play at a high level with a lot on his plate?”

Williams received all the reps during Wednesday’s practice with Blackmon, Shorts and Burton sitting out.

“He’s given us more height than we’ve had, so he certainly adds to that dimension,” Jaguars offensive coordinator Jedd Fisch said. “Maybe we can utilize him down in the red zone a little bit.”


Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2013-10-17/story/jaguars-notebook-wr-stephen-williams-needs-be-quick-study#ixzz2i4ocmWoz
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Shad Khan wishes he had cleaned house sooner

Jaguars owner Shad Khan is of course disappointed with the team’s 0-7 start, but he told the Times-Union today he believes the franchise is on the right track.

“Obviously, if you’re a Jaguars fan, we want to do better,” Khan said at Craven Cottage, home of the Fulham Football Club, which he purchased in July. “But we know the process we started, which is pretty much starting from the ground up, cleaning house and doing something … we probably should have started earlier.”The Jaguars have lost each of their seven games by double-digit points.

Speaking practically, Khan said: “We’ve got to get more talent. But I definitely feel we’re moving in the right direction. Status quo, maintaining what we had, was not an option.”

Khan expressed his support for general manager Dave Caldwell and coach Gus Bradley, acknowledging what they inherited.

“I thought Dave and Gus were absolutely the two right guys for the job and as the season has unfolded, if I could be convinced more, I am,” Khan said.
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JaxBill said:
Saints cut LB Martez Wilson in order to promote Ryan Griffin from practice squad and prevent the Rams from swooping in for the QB. Is the 6-4 250 Wilson a LEO candidate for the woeful Jags pass-rush?

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2013/10/new_orleans_saints_waive_lineb.html

Would the Jags cut somebody after they brought them over to England?
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I would hope that given the chance to improve this roster, Caldwell would make moves regardless of siuations like this. The NFL is a tough business.

 
Don't say the Jacksonville Jaguars are starting from scratch, because that's an insult to a team of the same name that actually did start from scratch.

Chances are, those 1995 Jaguars would beat this bunch, which is quite possibly the worst team in NFL history.

Jacksonville has lost it first seven games by an average of nearly 21 points - double-figure margins in all of them, and a differential of epic proportions if it holds up over a full season.

According to STATS LLC, the only team to fare worse was something known as a Chi-Pit Cards-Steelers, a 1944 amalgamation of two franchises that didn't enough players to field teams of their own because of World War II. They went 0-10, losing by an average margin of 22 points.

The Jaguars can't blame a war for their problems.

They've done this all by themselves.

Bad trades. Horrendous draft picks. Ill-advised signings.

Throw it together, and you're left with a franchise that doesn't even stack up to the expansion team I covered back in '95.

Those Jaguars, as expected, weren't very good. But they went 4-12, a record this group would be thrilled to achieve, and established the framework for a surprising run to the AFC championship game the very next year. That team's quarterback was a young Mark Brunell, who would go on to a long career in the league. These Jags have Blaine Gabbert, who looks like something out of "The Walking Dead."

There's no chance of Jacksonville making the playoffs this year or next. Team officials have made it clear this is merely the start of a total makeover that will take a minimum of three seasons to complete.

Rest assured, Gabbert will not be part of that plan. The 10th overall pick in the 2011 draft has already proven to be a colossal bust, his one touchdown pass this season countered by seven interceptions. Too bad he can't count the TDs the other teams scores; three of his picks have been returned to the Jacksonville end zone.

Journeyman Chad Henne isn't much better, but he'll start Sunday in London when the Jaguars take what is likely to be their eighth straight whipping at the hands of defending NFC champion San Francisco.

As if all that eavesdropping wasn't bad enough, now we're about to impose the Jaguars on one of our European allies.

Yikes.

"Obviously, if you're a Jaguars fan, you want to do better," team owner Shad Khan told The Florida Times-Union in Britain this week. "But we know the process we started, which is pretty much starting from the ground up, cleaning house and doing something we probably should have started earlier."

Rubbing salt in the wounds, the Web site PredictionMachine.com recently ran a series of simulated games between the current and expansion Jaguars, which found the '95 squad won more than 60 percent of the time by an average score of 19-14.

At least that's more competitive than the present-day Jaguars have been this season. They've led for a grand total of 22 minutes, 14 seconds - not even one half of one game, and never by more than seven points.

Where did it all go wrong?

The root of the Jaguars' problems can be traced to their last trip to the playoffs in 2007, when they got an inflated view of how good they really were. After winning a wild-card game at Pittsburgh and giving unbeaten New England a run for its money in the divisional round, Jacksonville handed quarterback David Garrard the largest contract in franchise history and traded four picks to draft defensive end Derrick Harvey at No. 8 overall.

Harvey lasted only three seasons in Jacksonville, finishing with eight career sacks, and no one else picked by Jaguars was still around even two years later. Then came another ill-fated move in 2011, when they traded up to grab Gabbert and missed the obvious warning signs: several quarterback-desperate teams had already passed on him.

Now, Jacksonville will have to use another high pick on a QB.

At least they won't have to trade up this time.

"We've got to get more talent," Khan said. "But I definitely feel we're moving in the right direction. Status quo, maintaining what we had, was not an option."

Maybe it will all work out. In the meantime, here are a few suggestions for the people of Jacksonville to make lemonade out of this lemon of a team.

- When the Jaguars score a touchdown at home, take a shot. Don't worry if you're a teetotaler - the Jags have yet to reach the end zone in three games on their own field. Their leading scorer at EverBank Field is Josh Scobee with three field goals. Their second-leading scorer at home is backup linebacker J.T. Thomas, who blocked a punt that rolled out of the end zone for a safety in the season opener.

- Join the picket line that shows up outside the stadium every Monday at 3:16 p.m. (in reference to the famous Bible verse), calling for the Jaguars to sign former Florida star Tim Tebow. There's no chance of the team heeding the request (or, even if they did, Tebow being of any help at all), but at least you can get in some regular exercise.

- Pretend you live in Los Angeles, a city often mentioned as a possible landing spot should the Jaguars look for a more profitable home than sleepy Jacksonville. Instead of fretting over your pathetic team on Sundays, go to the beach or have a cookout. If you insist on watching the NFL, pick a non-Jaguars game (remember, it's like you don't have a team of your own).

Who knows? Maybe the Jaguars will actually move to L.A. one of these days.

It never hurts to dream.

___

Paul Newberry is a national writer for The Associated Press.

 
Still not sure what the idea was for drafting Joeckel and trading Monroe off for nothing.

Also don't get why they don't sign Tebow. It isn't like he would do worse.

 
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Slapdash said:
Still not sure what the idea was for drafting Joeckel and trading Monroe off for nothing.

Also don't get why they don't sign Tebow. It isn't like he would do worse.
Click to expand...
Joeckel is supposed to be a better, cheaper LT. I honestly don't fault them at all there.

Tebow has been discussed to death, but I wouldn't sign him. He clearly isn't a franchise QB, so what's the point? He's going to bring the circus with him, and "best" case wins you 3-4 games, which only screws up your draft position.

 
This team is almost certainly going winless. They aren't even competitive.

I'm using whichever team is playing them in my survivor pool for the rest of the season (if I haven't used their opponent already).

 
Halfway through the season and here's what we have to show for it: The Jags have been outscored 264 to 86. Offensively, that equates to 10.8 ppg and is good for dead last in the league. Defensively, they've given up an average of 33 ppg., which is also good for dead last in the league. They have 8 touchdowns on the year, while their opponents have scored 33. They've sacked the quarterback 11 times and have allowed 28. The starting QB's have thrown 4 touchdowns to 12 interceptions.

On the bright side, they can't lose next week. I think.

 
I didn't bother watching any of this mess. They're a bad team playing a tough schedule (bad time to get AFC West/NFC West in the rotation).

This time last year, I was one of the people saying burn it down.

And they have.

At this point there's no reason to turn down any semi-reasonable offer for Babin, Mincey, or any other veteran. Marcedes and Poz have ridiculous contracts that are virtually untradeable.

People better not be expecting an Indy-like turnaround after they draft a QB. Colts had some talent on their roster and the Jags are still trying to shed the Gene Smith remnants.

Yeah, they're historically bad, but you have to let the process play out.

 
JaxBill said:
I didn't bother watching any of this mess. They're a bad team playing a tough schedule (bad time to get AFC West/NFC West in the rotation).

This time last year, I was one of the people saying burn it down.

And they have.

At this point there's no reason to turn down any semi-reasonable offer for Babin, Mincey, or any other veteran. Marcedes and Poz have ridiculous contracts that are virtually untradeable.

People better not be expecting an Indy-like turnaround after they draft a QB. Colts had some talent on their roster and the Jags are still trying to shed the Gene Smith remnants.

Yeah, they're historically bad, but you have to let the process play out.
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I watched for a while and said to myself, "what the hell am I watching this mess for." It's difficult to watch, as I can't really see a light at the end of the tunnel. They seem to be getting worse as the season goes. I expected it to be bad this year, but not epically bad like this. Will they even lose a game by less than double didgets?

 
Time to chime in on a couple of things I guess.

I am not buying 0-16 yet until they lose to both the Browns and Bills, I would have said the Texans as well, but I think they'll prove better with Case Keenum than Matt Schaub. I think what is more remarkable is that if the Jags and Bucs both go 0-16, the Bucs would get the #1 overall draft pick.

I expected another bad season, I was hoping for 4-5 wins, but I think its more likely that they'll only win 1-2 games. As for why I continue to watch this mess, I think it will lead to a greater appreciation of when the team finally becomes competitive again. That, and the fact that it is our team, I think it is truly hard to completely give up on your team and come back when they become relevant again. A die hard is a fan through the bad times as well as the good.

 
cdwood said:
Time to chime in on a couple of things I guess.

I am not buying 0-16 yet until they lose to both the Browns and Bills, I would have said the Texans as well, but I think they'll prove better with Case Keenum than Matt Schaub. I think what is more remarkable is that if the Jags and Bucs both go 0-16, the Bucs would get the #1 overall draft pick.

I expected another bad season, I was hoping for 4-5 wins, but I think its more likely that they'll only win 1-2 games. As for why I continue to watch this mess, I think it will lead to a greater appreciation of when the team finally becomes competitive again. That, and the fact that it is our team, I think it is truly hard to completely give up on your team and come back when they become relevant again. A die hard is a fan through the bad times as well as the good.
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I still follow them and I'm not really surprised that when you blow up a two win team, you get a 42-10 score that really wasn't that close.

Took my son down for the Chargers game and maybe I'll go to one of the later games.

I'm not overly upset -like I said it's part of the process. It's just that I have the Ticket at home and there's no reason to watch a sealbeating when there are quality games on a couple clicks away.

I'll be surprised if they win a game. Not only are they losing but they're not competitive for the most part. I believe the Denver game was the only one they have even covered. Historically bad point differential(on pace to blow away the old mark)

The things that drive me totally bonkers about this team

- how bad the run defense is

- the number of boneheaded 15 yard personal fouls

- the number of head-scratching coaching decisions

Long-term view they're on the right course. Joeckel hopefully recovers for next year. The young safeties show promise. Paztor has been a pleasant surprise at RT. Once they secure their franchise QB (hopefully), they have plenty of cap room to bring in some interior linemen to protect him.

It's just a team with a severe talent deficiency that took years to hit rock-bottom and it will be long climb back.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
The Jags are not going winless.

On another topic, any observations on Mike Brown???
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He was hot pre-season, and a guy they were trying to get in the rotation. He has good hands, is a nice route runner and seems to have a knack for getting in good position behind the defense. I like him, and think that him, Cecil and Backmon make a bright spot on an otherwise abysmal team. A decent QB could pull off some shoot outs with this crew. Hopefully, they can get one next year...

 
humpback said:
Slapdash said:
Still not sure what the idea was for drafting Joeckel and trading Monroe off for nothing.

Also don't get why they don't sign Tebow. It isn't like he would do worse.
Click to expand...
Joeckel is supposed to be a better, cheaper LT. I honestly don't fault them at all there.Tebow has been discussed to death, but I wouldn't sign him. He clearly isn't a franchise QB, so what's the point? He's going to bring the circus with him, and "best" case wins you 3-4 games, which only screws up your draft position.
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I don't know, there are bound to be top 10 pick anyways. They will get a top QB. I would think making money off the circus is worth it to the owner. Trying to shake it up and get something positive is would be better to me if I were a Jags fan. Certainly better for the younger players they are trying to develop.
 
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cdwood said:
As for why I continue to watch this mess, I think it will lead to a greater appreciation of when the team finally becomes competitive again. That, and the fact that it is our team, I think it is truly hard to completely give up on your team and come back when they become relevant again. A die hard is a fan through the bad times as well as the good.
Click to expand...
:thumbup:
 
Slapdash said:
humpback said:
Slapdash said:
Still not sure what the idea was for drafting Joeckel and trading Monroe off for nothing.

Also don't get why they don't sign Tebow. It isn't like he would do worse.
Click to expand...
Joeckel is supposed to be a better, cheaper LT. I honestly don't fault them at all there.Tebow has been discussed to death, but I wouldn't sign him. He clearly isn't a franchise QB, so what's the point? He's going to bring the circus with him, and "best" case wins you 3-4 games, which only screws up your draft position.
Click to expand...
I don't know, there are bound to be top 10 pick anyways. They will get a top QB. I would think making money off the circus is worth it to the owner. Trying to shake it up and get something positive is would be better to me if I were a Jags fan. Certainly better for the younger players they are trying to develop.
Click to expand...
There's a huge difference between the #1 (or #2) overall pick and top 10, and with revenue sharing, the extra money isn't as big a deal.

I may be wrong, but judging from the comments in this thread and others, I don't think most Jags fans want anything to do with Tebow. I think he'd hinder the development of those younger players because he just can't run a traditional offense. Seems like way more of a hassle than it's worth.

 
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Slapdash said:
humpback said:
Slapdash said:
Still not sure what the idea was for drafting Joeckel and trading Monroe off for nothing.

Also don't get why they don't sign Tebow. It isn't like he would do worse.
Click to expand...
Joeckel is supposed to be a better, cheaper LT. I honestly don't fault them at all there.Tebow has been discussed to death, but I wouldn't sign him. He clearly isn't a franchise QB, so what's the point? He's going to bring the circus with him, and "best" case wins you 3-4 games, which only screws up your draft position.
Click to expand...
I don't know, there are bound to be top 10 pick anyways. They will get a top QB. I would think making money off the circus is worth it to the owner. Trying to shake it up and get something positive is would be better to me if I were a Jags fan. Certainly better for the younger players they are trying to develop.
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Stop.

Just stop.

The ship has sailed.

Even the local whackos have given up on their weekly "rallies" outside the stadium. None of the half-dozen protesters bothered to show yesterday.

 
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