What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Official Josh Doctson - WR - Redskins (1 Viewer)

rickyg said:
Being tall and weighing 235 isn't talent.  It's simply a physical attribute.  Dorial green beckham was tall and weighed a lot too and he is out of the NFL.  

The speed is definitely a talent.   I was VERY high on Pryor last year after he broke out in Cleveland.  So much so that I traded for him in my dynasty league and gave up a lot. He has been a disappointmenti my eyes.  He practices and trains like a beast but he's got hands of stone when it counts. I realize he's still learning how to be a wr.  But not doctson.  Doctson is a natural wr. With better hands.  And a better resume at the wr position.  And he's a higher draft pick which means the skins have enough invested in him that they want to be right and they want to give him every chance possible to become the wr they drafted him to be.  

I'm not saying I'm certain that doctson will overtake Pryor as the #1 wr in washington this season.   I'm not even saying that the book is closed on Pryor.  But I think that pryors struggles have opened the door for doctson.  And given doctson's talent and potential that makes him a top flight bench stash.  A just in case he blows up bench stash.  BC if he does it allows you to trade away a wr with more name value for a position of need. 
Click to expand...
At 28 years old I am not sure how much more development we should expect from Pryor.

Doctson has a lot of potential and I think it was a good thing that he scored a TD against the Raiders, but he has a lot to prove before people should be saying he is better than players who have proven more than he has in the NFL.

Doctson only played on 17 snaps week 4 against KC. Playing over 50% of the offensive snaps would be a good place for him to start such an ascension. 

 
Biabreakable said:
At 28 years old I am not sure how much more development we should expect from Pryor.

Doctson has a lot of potential and I think it was a good thing that he scored a TD against the Raiders, but he has a lot to prove before people should be saying he is better than players who have proven more than he has in the NFL.

Doctson only played on 17 snaps week 4 against KC. Playing over 50% of the offensive snaps would be a good place for him to start such an ascension. 
Click to expand...
Definitely agreed.

 
Am I fair or right in saying that Doctson looks like the Redskins' best WR?

The guy gets a TD on the team's first drive, then he goes away, not another catch for the rest of the day. Why won't they get him the ball?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Biabreakable said:
:shrug:

He is being out snapped by Pryor, Crowder and Grant in the most recent game where he did play on 26% of the snaps.

Hard to make plays if you don't play. Obviously he needs to do more in practice to earn that playing time in the games.
Click to expand...
That's the thing.  You see this time and time again on here.  What's going on is he isn't that good.  he's not better than any of those other guys. I know that some are going to scream 'he's way better than them' but the fact remains you don't get to make that decision.  There are people with tons of training who make millions of $$$s making that decision.  Until the day he outplays them in practice he is going to continue to see limited snaps.  

He reminds me of so many other 1st and 2nd round wrs the last couple of years with countless posts on how great they are but then just disappear.  

 
killface said:
That's the thing.  You see this time and time again on here.  What's going on is he isn't that good.  he's not better than any of those other guys. I know that some are going to scream 'he's way better than them' but the fact remains you don't get to make that decision.  There are people with tons of training who make millions of $$$s making that decision.  Until the day he outplays them in practice he is going to continue to see limited snaps.  

He reminds me of so many other 1st and 2nd round wrs the last couple of years with countless posts on how great they are but then just disappear.  
Click to expand...
You might have more faith in the NFL's brain trusts than I do.

I totally understood Bia's point, you didn't have to lay it out. However my point was that - unlike the unnamed examples you mention above (I'm think I can guess some though...), who notoriously have failed to produce on the field - Doctson has been performing when he's on the field. He has 4 catches in 9 targets, but in those 4 catches he has 2 TDs and almost a third yesterday that I recall. He's got 22 yards per reception. Yes there is a 52 yarder in there but that was a very good catch.

Do Pryor and Crowder and Grant seem exceptionally productive to you when they play? I guess what I'm trying to say is that Doctson looks pretty effective to me and I think he will get that added playing time.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
You might have more faith in the NFL's brain trusts than I do.

I totally understood Bia's point, you didn't have to lay it out. However my point was that - unlike the unnamed examples you mention above (I'm think I can guess some though...), who notoriously have failed to produce on the field - Doctson has been performing when he's on the field. He has 4 catches in 9 targets, but in those 4 catches he has 2 TDs and almost a third yesterday that I recall. He's got 22 yards per reception. Yes there is a 52 yarder in there but that was a very good catch.

Do Pryor and Crowder and Grant seem exceptionally productive to you when they play? I guess what I'm trying to say is that Doctson looks pretty effective to me and I think he will get that added playing time.
Click to expand...
The flip side of that exact argument however is, I agree that Pryor, Crowder and Grant don't look good, so what does that say about what they think about Doctson?  It's not like he is a massive hidden talent behind Moss and Rice.  he can't get playing time behind a bunch of average guys....that is not good

 
killface said:
The flip side of that exact argument however is, I agree that Pryor, Crowder and Grant don't look good, so what does that say about what they think about Doctson?  It's not like he is a massive hidden talent behind Moss and Rice.  he can't get playing time behind a bunch of average guys....that is not good
Click to expand...
I don't think he's strung together two fully healthy weeks in his short career.  That's a negative on him thus far, but do you really expect them to toss him out there for 60 plays?  I think they're handling him correctly right now...slowly but surely. You can interpret his lack of significant PT as an indicator that the Redakins don't like his talent if you'd like.  I think it's far more likely that they don't want to push his Achilles/hamstring/(insert other ailments) too far and too fast.  

 
Josh Doctson hasn’t received many reps, but the Redskins intend to change that

Josh Doctson needs more snaps. The Redskins’ second-year wide receiver has served a limited role through five games, including during Sunday’s 26-24 victory over the San Francisco 49ers, in which he participated in just 19 of Washington’s 74 snaps on offense.

That means Doctson, the team’s 2016 first-round draft pick, was on the field for just more than 25 percent of the team’s offensive snaps. And during Monday’s news conference, Redskins Coach Jay Gruden addressed the deficiency, saying the coaching staff will look at getting Doctson more playing time moving forward.

“We are going to actively expand [his role], without a doubt,” Gruden said. “He didn’t get as many reps as I would like at the end of the day when you look at the numbers, but it’s our job. We have got to get him in there more and expand it.”

Doctson, 24, once again flashed his potential in a reserve role Sunday. He scored his second career touchdown during the opening drive on an 11-yard reception, his only catch in the game. Two of Doctson’s four catches this season have resulted in touchdowns.

That’s in sharp contrast to the team’s other wide receivers — Terrelle Pryor Sr., Jamison Crowder and Ryan Grant — who all played at least 54 percent of the offense’s snaps against the 49ers. Pryor had three catches for 23 yards on 61 snaps; Crowder touched the ball four times (three receptions) for 26 total yards on 53 snaps; and Grant had three catches for 39 yards on 40 snaps.

Gruden has often said Doctson’s role would expand once he displayed consistency at practice, which appears to be the case at this point. He has been hampered by injuries through his first two seasons with the team that have stunted his growth, namely a lingering Achilles’ injury that kept him out for all but two games during his rookie year.

Doctson returned during the offseason receiving reps strictly at the “Z” position, which is typically the No. 1 receiver and lines up on the strong side of the formation, and he had an impressive training camp until a hamstring injury kept him sidelined for most of the preseason. While he has been on the injury report for four of the team’s five games with hamstring and shoulder injuries, Doctson has played in every game this year and received snaps at both the “X,” the receiver on the weak side of the formation, and “Z” outside receiver positions.

“We still have to realize he’s in his second year and last year he didn’t practice a lot,” Gruden said. “Before we start throwing more on his plate, we’ve got to make sure he can handle the little bit that’s on his plate already, which I know he can. I know he can play some ‘X’ and ‘Z’ now. Now it’s a matter of getting him out there at practice, making sure he can handle the workload and the mental load of it. We will definitely put him out there at X at some point here soon.”

There are certain personnel groupings geared for Doctson — including in red-zone packages in which the Redskins like to use his big frame — but Gruden said there are other groupings in which he rotates with the other receivers.

“We just have got to do a better job of the personnel groups that he is not a starter in to get him in,” Gruden said.
Click to expand...

 
His teammates have raved about him in practices so not getting this "Redskins don't think he's talented" stuff. He's not getting more snaps because he can't stay healthy for any period of time. His usage is trending up and he's got a redzone targets in each of the last 3 games. Pyror and Crowder are sucking it up giving him an opportunity to take a bigger share of the pie going forward. As long as he can stay healthy his arrow is pointing up.

 
I think Gruden's comments are a sizable development.

Pryor/Crowder thru 5 games have combined for 33/330/1.  Essentially, Crowder has been overtaken by Thompson.  And with Pryor on a 1 year deal, he hasn't exactly increased his market value.  Worse than that...I haven't seen too much Redskins action, but I've noted a significant lack of aggressiveness by Pryor in going after the ball.  Coupled with Reed's health issues and there is some opportunity here for the taking.

Docston is a guy they have a 1st round pick invested in and is finally healthy.  He's not usurping anything established.

 
As others have pointed out, what exactly are the Redskins losing at this point by having Doctson take more reps over guys like Pryor or Crowder? Both of those guys have had ample opportunity (5 weeks) to do something and have done very little. If Washington is serious about trying to win their division or make the playoffs (it's Week 7 now) the time for "giving the veterans the benefit of the doubt" (including Ryan Grant) has passed. If they haven't performed, you reduce their role.

I also take Gruden's comments as a large development here. We'll learn Monday night if it was just coachspeak, but I think we are closer than we were yesterday to seeing Doctson have a sizable role in this offence. 

 
Well choo-choo...I guess.  Looks like I'm starting him over Diggs this week.  What are the odds he busts out?  1 in a million?  So you're sayin' there's a chance!

 
Well in the context of this discussion, Doctson in his current utilization would be a dart throw.

@sho nuff picked up Sanu, and provided he plays his usual number of snaps he has a significantly better chance of seeing exceeding 0-3 targets and 2 catches. When he was out, somebody who started Gabriel was gambling on something between bye week filler (Sanu) who might go 4-55-0 and Hail Mary (Doctson) - the latter, at best, you’re hoping for 2-60-1 with a 40+ TD, just as likely to see 1/0-0-0. Gabriel might typically go 4-35 on a bunch of bubble screens & you hope he breaks one, but if not, you know that going in. With JD you might get goose egged, which makes him unstartable.

WTH Flex or steady Eddie? I can’t see a good case for picking up Doctson, but if you believe he’s as talented as advertised, good stash until he starts seeing an uptick in usage.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I wouldn’t start doctson this week unless I was desperate.  It’s great that gruden is talking about “actively expanding” his role and all but I need to see it before I insert doctson in my lineup.  

 
tricky92 said:
How is Crowder doing? Think he’ll get a catch this week?
Click to expand...
Doesn't have lingering hamstring and Achilles injuries.  Schtick aside, those are hard to get rid of during the season if they're nagging. As was stated earlier, that's likely why they're not playing him much. Getting close to the halfway point of his second season and has 5 or so catches and injuries that continue to linger. It's not very encouraging. 

 
He went from playing 54% of the snaps in week 3 to 34% in week 4 to 24% coming out of his bye in week 6. It's nice to hear that Gruden wants to get him more involved but I would have hard time trusting someone with that snap percentage trend who routinely sees 2-3 targets a week. I do like him as a stash though, his competition kind of sucks. 

 
Took a shot on him in 2 leagues where I’ve got WRs on BYEs. Read the coach speak on Monday & I’m excited to see what he can do with more targets & playing time. :excited:  

 
flapgreen said:
Doesn't have lingering hamstring and Achilles injuries.  Schtick aside, those are hard to get rid of during the season if they're nagging. As was stated earlier, that's likely why they're not playing him much. Getting close to the halfway point of his second season and has 5 or so catches and injuries that continue to linger. It's not very encouraging. 
Click to expand...
No. Gruden just has set WR packages and he is only a "starter in the redzone package. To get on the rest of the time it's an individual sub which Gruden doesn't do much of because, well, he's not very good at his job. He said he's going to try to do it more. In the meantime he needs to win a spot over Grant, who the coaches love because he knows every route at all spots and practices his ### off. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
SameSongNDance said:
He went from playing 54% of the snaps in week 3 to 34% in week 4 to 24% coming out of his bye in week 6. It's nice to hear that Gruden wants to get him more involved but I would have hard time trusting someone with that snap percentage trend who routinely sees 2-3 targets a week. I do like him as a stash though, his competition kind of sucks. 
Click to expand...
He was a full participant in practice and came off the injury report in week 3. Then he got injured again in the game against KC in week 4. He was off the injury report after the Bye, so it's somewhat alarming they didn't use him more this past weekend.

 
Buckna said:
He was a full participant in practice and came off the injury report in week 3. Then he got injured again in the game against KC in week 4. He was off the injury report after the Bye, so it's somewhat alarming they didn't use him more this past weekend.
Click to expand...
Seems like it's more of an indictment of the play of Crowder and Pryor rather than anything spectacular Doctson is doing.

 
Sebowski said:
No. Gruden just has set WR packages and he is only a "starter in the redzone package. To get on the rest of the time it's an individual sub which Gruden doesn't do much of because, well, he's not very good at his job. He said he's going to try to do it more. In the meantime he needs to win a spot over Grant, who the coaches love because he knows every route at all spots and practices his ### off. 
Click to expand...
I never said I loved Crowder or thought he was some stud. But even he's seeing the field more than Doctson. You would think they would be doing everything they could to get their first round pick out there. But they're just not. 

 
Wrigley said:
Ok, Doctson, J Matthews, or C Davis for my final bench spot? 

Asking for a friend 
Click to expand...
funny, I dropped Davis for JMatt and am thinking of dropped Forte (now that Powell is back in full practice) for Doctson. My rankings are:

1. JMatt- practicing 2 days in a row and could have an insane target share in that offense.If he can catch (which he sometimes can't regardless of a hand injury) he might go bananas this week from the slot. 

2. Doctson- He seems to have some talent and while there are a lot of mouths to feed, most of those mouths have been spitting up all over themselves this year. 

3. Davis- if he was healthy, he would be tops on the list for me. With another missed week and a bye, I think we can wait a week to add this guy. 

 
J-Matt is on my wire in a 12 team league... 

not a high ceiling. Depends on your situation. If you need to plug a guy right in to your line up, then Doctson is not the guy for you. 

If you want a high upside stash, Doctson is the poster child for such a situation.

 
tricky92 said:
J-Matt is on my wire in a 12 team league... 

not a high ceiling. Depends on your situation. If you need to plug a guy right in to your line up, then Doctson is not the guy for you. 

If you want a high upside stash, Doctson is the poster child for such a situation.
Click to expand...
Now the report today was JMatt is behind where they wanted him. All week was how he was ahead. I might drop JMatt for Doctson. 

 
Wrigley said:
Ok, Doctson, J Matthews, or C Davis for my final bench spot? 

Asking for a friend 
Click to expand...
It depends on if you are just looking for the best play for this week or if you are looking for the best player long term.

This week

Matthews vs Tampa. He hasn't been targeted much really but the Bucs defense hasn't been playing very well. On a side note just looking at Buffalos skill players I am amazed with how much Zay Jones has been targeted yet how few receptions Jones has. 23 targets 5 receptions? Man that is not going well. Matthews only has 13 targets, but at least he has 10 receptions.

Josh Doctson vs Philly is not a good match up and as already mentioned upthread playing time for Docton has actually decreased coming out of the bye. Need to see that change before I would consider starting him.

Corey Davis has already been ruled out for this week and may not play until after their bye.

For the long term

Davis

Doctson

Matthews

Because of talent.

 
He's nothing more than the WR version of a RB lottery ticket at this point, but I've picked him up in two leagues where my depth at WR is a little lacking and I'm looking for something that could turn bigger and better as the season goes on. 

I like the points made that he was very talented in college, Redskins did spend a first round pick on him, and the competition above him in the depth chart isn't the strongest. It is more to the Redskins advantage if they find out what they have with him asap fitness permitting.  He may be being only played in limited snaps, but they've trusted him in the red zone a few times and he's delivered. 

Its a compelling enough argument to believe that he could be putting up much larger by seasons end, to make him an end of bench stash where the WR waiver wire seems to have been picked clean 

 
Biabreakable said:
It depends on if you are just looking for the best play for this week or if you are looking for the best player long term.

This week

Matthews vs Tampa. He hasn't been targeted much really but the Bucs defense hasn't been playing very well. On a side note just looking at Buffalos skill players I am amazed with how much Zay Jones has been targeted yet how few receptions Jones has. 23 targets 5 receptions? Man that is not going well. Matthews only has 13 targets, but at least he has 10 receptions.

Josh Doctson vs Philly is not a good match up and as already mentioned upthread playing time for Docton has actually decreased coming out of the bye. Need to see that change before I would consider starting him.

Corey Davis has already been ruled out for this week and may not play until after their bye.

For the long term

Davis

Doctson

Matthews

Because of talent.
Click to expand...
End of bench guy

behind 

Jordy

Hill

E Sanders (ir)

R Matthews 

M Bryant 

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
My final 2022 mock draft, 3 rounds
2
Replies
56
Views
6K
travdogg
T
T
Travdogg's Free Agency Predictions and 2 round mock (updated 4/8/22)
2
Replies
73
Views
6K
rockaction
rockaction
EBF
Top 28 Rookies 2020
2 3 4
Replies
185
Views
19K
Cjw_55106
Cjw_55106

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top