*** Official Lost Season 6 *** (1 Viewer)

[Masked Vigilante]

I didn't see this posted, great interview with the LOST producers about Across the Sea.

Damon Lindelof: It's never exactly the reaction you're expecting. We knew it would be an episode that would be divisive. We've been talking since the beginning of the season about the idea that the great thing of doing a show on your own terms is you have no excuses, but it's also slightly terrifying that if you're a mystery show, there will inevitably be episodes that answer mysteries. That has the potential to frighten, terrify, make people hate. This was going to be the season where we said, "Whatever your theory was, our presentation of the endgame of the show may disprove your theory, so we're sorry if you don't like the fact that you don't get the Man in Black's name, but you don't get it." So that's going to piss some people off, and it's their right to be pissed off. In terms of what the specific reactions are, it's too hard to say 12 hours after the fact, and without seeing where this episode plays in the grand scheme of the series. That's all we can say.

Responses like this prove to me that Lindelof doesn't have any clue how people evaluate TV. I suppose by the time you reach season 6 of a wildly successful show, you're going to think you're above criticism and entitled to a victory lap or two. I find it hilarious that he thinks the majority of negative reviews are due to revelations not lining up neatly with peoples' theories, or that we don't get to know some random fact like the name of the Man in Black. I hope he doesn't actually think this way because it's borderline r3tarded.

The biggest problem with the episode was its placement in the season. Had this been episode 6.03, people would have been much more receptive. I would have liked for this episode to have aired earlier in the season with another one all about Jacob evolving into the Jacob we see today.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

I find it hilarious that he thinks the majority of negative reviews are due to revelations not lining up neatly with peoples' theories, or that we don't get to know some random fact like the name of the Man in Black.

For the last few seasons, I haven't really cared so much about getting answers. I mean, it would be really cool to get clever, meaningful, sensible, internally consistent answers to the show's more interesting mysteries. It would also be really cool to win the lottery. But I'm not going to be overly disappointed if I don't.What I liked most about the first few seasons, and what I think has been missing in the last few, is that I cared about the characters and their predicaments. I wanted to see if Michael and Jin would eventually get along, or if Sawyer and anyone would. I wanted to know what would happen to Claire after she was kidnapped. I wanted to know whether Locke and Boone would be able to open the hatch -- and what they'd find inside if they did. I wanted to see what kind of couple Sayid and Shannon would make. I wanted to see what Henry Gale was all about. I wanted to see if Penny and Desmond would reunite, and if Charlie would really die.

I didn't want to know those things just to satisfy my taste for learning trivia. I wanted to know them because the characters were engaging and their stories were captivating: I cared about them.

Since about the start of the time-traveling, however, the storylines have become tedious. I'll keep watching to see how things unfold -- to get answers to trivia questions -- but I don't really care anymore. It's like watching the rest of the NBA playoffs after my team has already been eliminated. I guess I still want to know who wins, but I no longer have much of a preference one way or the other. The kinds of storylines I once found so absorbing were left for dead some time ago.

 

[Lehigh98]

Went to reply to HULK's post that I was going to try to avoid any spoilers until the finale and then they popped up in his original post that I guess I was quoting. Oops! Fortunately I was able to avert my eyes as if the post was the opening Ark of the Covenant and only saw a couple words and names but not the context.Surprised if major info made it out, I'll have to be more careful to avoid.

Update: I have no willpower. Figured since it was just for the next episode and not the finale I'd take a look.

 

[Statorama]

Update: I have no willpower. Figured since it was just for the next episode and not the finale I'd take a look.

Scale of 1-10, how shocking? (the spoiler I mean)

 

[KGB]

Spoiler is everything that happens next episode. buyer beware.

Sideways Jack wakes up with the familiar blood stain on his neck and goes to eat breakfast with David. David makes sure Jack is going to his concert that night and Jack says he would be and inquires if David’s mom will be there. Jack gets contacted by Oceanic telling him his father’s casket was located, but it turns out it’s actually Desmond on the phone. On the island, Jack patches up Kate’s shoulder and Kate laments that Locke killed Jin and Sun and that they have a daughter, one that Jin will now never see. Kate says that they have to kill Locke and Jack agrees. Jack says that if Locke wants Desmond, they need to get to him first and they (Kate, Jack, Hurley and Sawyer) head off to the well to retrieve him. In sideways world, Desmond watches from his car as Locke gets out of his van; his first day back at school after being run down. In a similar situation Des starts the car and seems poised to run Locke down again until Ben interrupts him and stops him. Des gets out and says he wasn’t trying to hurt Locke, but help him. Ben asks how and Des starts punching him; at which time Ben begins to have flashes of his “other” life. On the mend in the nurses office, Locke arrives to check on Ben and Ben tells him the story as Locke calls the police. Ben stops him and says that he believes Desmond when he said he was trying to help. Alex meets up with Ben outside the school and invites to drive him home with her mom. At first Ben declines, but then a “cleaned up and non crazy” Rousseau insists. Back at their house after dinner, Ben asks Danielle what happened to Alex’s father. She says he died when she was 2 and muses that is why Alex has taken to Ben so much; he has an interest in her and believes in her and is the father she never had. Ben gets misty from hearing this.

Back on the island, Richard, Miles and Ben are heading to Ben’s house to get his stash of C4 to blow up the plane. While there, Zoe and Widmore arrive. Widmore explains that after the freighter was blown up, Jacob visited him and explained what he must do. Widmore orders Zoe to go sink their boat and she leaves. Widmore explains that he brought Desmond to the island because of his immunity to electromagnetism. Zoe calls up on the walkie explaining that Locke has arrived on the island. Widmore orders her to return and when she is on her way Widmore says they all need to hide in Ben’s closet. Miles leaves on his own while Ben and Richard decide to confront Locke; thinking they can either buy time or get him to leave. With Widmore and Zoe in the closet walk outside. The black smoke slams into Richard and tosses him into the woods. Ben sits and Locke approaches and says that there are some people he’d like Ben to kill and in exchange, Ben can have control of the island after Locke leaves. Ben accepts and tells him that Widmore and Zoe are in his closet. Locke promptly slices Zoe’s throat and tells Widmore that if he tells him what he wants to know he won’t kill penny when he leaves the island. At first Widmore doesn’t seem to trust him, but relents and tells him of Desmond. When Locke asks why Desmond, Widmore doesn’t want Ben to hear. Ben turns around and he whispers inaudibly into Locke’s ear. Suddenly Widmore is shot numerous times by Ben, with Ben explaining that he (Widmore) “Shouldn’t have the opportunity to save his daughter” and then asks Locke if there are others he wants him to kill.

In the woods, young Jacob appears to Hurley and demands his ashes from Hurley. He takes them and runs away and Hurley gives chase, and comes upon adult Jacob in the woods around a campfire. Hurley brings Jack, Kate and Sawyer to Jacob, who they can now see and communicate with. Jacob explains that he made a mistake when his actions made his brother into the smoke monster and he knew that eventually he’d find a way to kill him; so the candidates have been his preparations for his eventual demise. And that protecting the island is what the others “have all died for.” He says that he must have a successor before the fire burns out; once it does, he is gone for good and “it would be very bad” if there isn’t someone to take his place. Sawyer complains that his life was fine before Jacob brought them there, but Jacob interjects that they were all lost, lonely and broken, like he was. Kate asks why she was crossed out and Jacob explains that it’s “just chalk on a wall, he crossed her out because she became a mother and the job is still open if she wants it”. No one accepts at first, until Jack stands and says this is what he was meant to do and accepts the “job”. Jacob explains that the light is the heart of the island and is what must be protected from extinguishing; which is what MIB wants to do. Jack asks if they’re supposed to kill him (MIB) and Jacob says that he hopes they can. Jacob gets a cup from Jack, says a “prayer” to the water and gives it to Jack to drink; when he does, Jacob says “Now we are the same”.

In sideways world, Locke goes to Jack and explains that maybe fate is what cause his accident and maybe Jack is supposed to fix his spine. Jack accepts (after the uttering of a few familiar phrases).

On the island, Locke and Ben reach the well to see that Des is not there. Ben asks what it was that Widmore said to him about Desmond. He says that Des was Jacob’s “Failsafe” in case all of his candidates were killed; but that Desmond will be useful to Locke now because Desmond can do what Locke has never been able to do, “Destroy the island”.

LOST

- Ben kills Widmore. Locke tells widmore if you tell me why you brought desmond then i wont kill your daughter. ben shots widmore because he said his daughter doesnt get to live.

- Locke kills Zoe. Slices her throat

- Jacob explains why he chose the candidates. and why kate isnt one.

- Jacob becomes visible to the 4 remaining candidates including Kate and explains this to them directly

- Jack becomes Jacob's replacement. Including a ritual where Jack drinks from a stream and Jacob says "now we are the same"

- Sayid didn't kill Desmond. all we see is an empty well with a rope

- Desmond beats up Ben in flash-sideways. Desmond beats up Ben and Ben has a flash of when he got beat in the OTM

- Locke wants Jack to fix his spine in flash-sideways. yes after he realizes this might be fate. and jack says the lines dont mistake coincidence with fate.

- Desmond turns himself in for running over Locke. Then breaks Sayid and

- Kate out of jail with the help of Ana Lucia and Hurley.

- Desmond is getting all the Oceanic 815ers to congregate at the concert.

- Richard gets slammed by the smoke, I would be shocked if he were alive

- Ben is following Flocke around after this, seems aligned with him

- Widmore reveals the purpose of Desmond, part of it is whispered to Flocke, the word "failsafe" is used

- Flocke announces his intention to "destroy the island"

Read more: http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/#ixzz0nvA7IQC4



*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();

 

[KGB]

hmmf. cant get spoiler tags to work

 

[Masked Vigilante]

Update: I have no willpower. Figured since it was just for the next episode and not the finale I'd take a look.

Scale of 1-10, how shocking? (the spoiler I mean)

I just read the alternate time line spoilers and they're interesting but not necessarily mind blowing.

 

[Big Blue Wrecking Crew]

Update: I have no willpower. Figured since it was just for the next episode and not the finale I'd take a look.

Scale of 1-10, how shocking? (the spoiler I mean)

I just read the alternate time line spoilers and they're interesting but not necessarily mind blowing.

[seinfeld]GEORGE: Did anybody see Firestorm?MR. ROSS: Firestorm, that's a hell of a picture.GEORGE: Yeah.MR. ROSS: Remember when they had the helicopter land on top of that car --FRANK: Hey! Hey! Come on! Come on! I haven't seen it yet.MR. ROSS: It doesn't have anything to do with the plot!FRANK: Still! Still! I like to go in fresh!GEORGE: Oh mother of God.[/seinfeld]

 

[Sleeping King]

Anyone speak Latin. After watching the episode again I would like to know what Fake Mother was saying before giving Jacob the cup. She says something, he drinks, she says "Now we are the same".

 

[HellToupee]

what about when MIB was describing his people to Jacob and said something like "he hated them all, the were liars, etc," sounds to me like this could lead to the origins of Jacobs game, which we were led to believe that he wanted to prove, apparently to MIB, that all people were capable of good and not all evil or whatever it was Jacob said to Richard when they first met

and didn't young mib tell jacob to make up his own rules in a game while playing with mib's game?

 

[cstu]

I find it hilarious that he thinks the majority of negative reviews are due to revelations not lining up neatly with peoples' theories, or that we don't get to know some random fact like the name of the Man in Black.

For the last few seasons, I haven't really cared so much about getting answers. I mean, it would be really cool to get clever, meaningful, sensible, internally consistent answers to the show's more interesting mysteries. It would also be really cool to win the lottery. But I'm not going to be overly disappointed if I don't.What I liked most about the first few seasons, and what I think has been missing in the last few, is that I cared about the characters and their predicaments. I wanted to see if Michael and Jin would eventually get along, or if Sawyer and anyone would. I wanted to know what would happen to Claire after she was kidnapped. I wanted to know whether Locke and Boone would be able to open the hatch -- and what they'd find inside if they did. I wanted to see what kind of couple Sayid and Shannon would make. I wanted to see what Henry Gale was all about. I wanted to see if Penny and Desmond would reunite, and if Charlie would really die.

I didn't want to know those things just to satisfy my taste for learning trivia. I wanted to know them because the characters were engaging and their stories were captivating: I cared about them.

Since about the start of the time-traveling, however, the storylines have become tedious. I'll keep watching to see how things unfold -- to get answers to trivia questions -- but I don't really care anymore. It's like watching the rest of the NBA playoffs after my team has already been eliminated. I guess I still want to know who wins, but I no longer have much of a preference one way or the other. The kinds of storylines I once found so absorbing were left for dead some time ago.

I think they wrote themselves into a hole from the very beginning and what we are seeing the now is the result. They wanted to create a mystery show that was character-driven but they developed this elaborate mythology without figuring out how they would reconcile the two. So what we ended up with was a great character-driven 3+ years while in the last two or so the characters have mainly been used to tie up the mythology.

 

[Lehigh98]

Update: I have no willpower.

Figured since it was just for the next episode and not the finale I'd take a look.

Scale of 1-10, how shocking? (the spoiler I mean)

Putting in spoiler tags for people that want to avoid any clue of what it will be like, tame response though...
No big hints on how it will end. Gives a fair amount of info though.

*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Update: I have no willpower.

Figured since it was just for the next episode and not the finale I'd take a look.

Scale of 1-10, how shocking? (the spoiler I mean)

Putting in spoiler tags for people that want to avoid any clue of what it will be like, tame response though...
No big hints on how it will end. Gives a fair amount of info though.

*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();

Yeah. I could have done without the part about Hurley posing for the Victoria's Secret fashion shoot, though. I'm gonna have the thing about him in a thong and lace bra stuck in my head for months.

 

[David Yudkin]

Do we know for sure what the timelines are? Off the island (ie the flash sideways) they are in 2004, correct? After the bomb went off they seemed to merge everyone on the island back into the same timeframe. The real Locke was killed in 2007, so they should be in 2007 on the island, right?. I'm just trying to confirm that the flash sideways is actually happening in a different year.

 

[Lehigh98]

Do we know for sure what the timelines are? Off the island (ie the flash sideways) they are in 2004, correct? After the bomb went off they seemed to merge everyone on the island back into the same timeframe. The real Locke was killed in 2007, so they should be in 2007 on the island, right?. I'm just trying to confirm that the flash sideways is actually happening in a different year.

I think we discussed this right after that episode. I think the flash sideways flight wasn't the exact same date as the orignal flight but was close, maybe a week or a month or so?

 

[Lehigh98]

Do we know for sure what the timelines are? Off the island (ie the flash sideways) they are in 2004, correct? After the bomb went off they seemed to merge everyone on the island back into the same timeframe. The real Locke was killed in 2007, so they should be in 2007 on the island, right?. I'm just trying to confirm that the flash sideways is actually happening in a different year.

I think we discussed this right after that episode. I think the flash sideways flight wasn't the exact same date as the orignal flight but was close, maybe a week or a month or so?

Oops, nevermind. I was right that they showed a different date in the flash sideways but turns out it was a mistake and should have been the same date...

In the official Lost podcast of February 22, 2010, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse confirmed the date was an error and the plane landed on September 22, 2004.

 

[cstu]

So much has happened on this show that it's tough to remember anything, but what ever happened with the multiple mentions of the smoke monster as a security system, it guarding the Temple and Ben being able to summon it? Is there some way to reconcile that with what we know now?

 

[Dr. No]

So much has happened on this show that it's tough to remember anything, but what ever happened with the multiple mentions of the smoke monster as a security system, it guarding the Temple and Ben being able to summon it? Is there some way to reconcile that with what we know now?

that scene where ben unleashes the smoke monster now seems completely ridiculous after what we know now, and seemed terribly inconsistent with anything previous to or after that scene as regards to how the smoke monster behaves

 

[SmoovySmoov]

So much has happened on this show that it's tough to remember anything, but what ever happened with the multiple mentions of the smoke monster as a security system, it guarding the Temple and Ben being able to summon it? Is there some way to reconcile that with what we know now?

that scene where ben unleashes the smoke monster now seems completely ridiculous after what we know now, and seemed terribly inconsistent with anything previous to or after that scene as regards to how the smoke monster behaves

I would disagree with that. Up to that point, we had been told it was a security system for the island. It acted in defense of the island. I think you're nitpicking.

 

[Mario Kart]

So much has happened on this show that it's tough to remember anything, but what ever happened with the multiple mentions of the smoke monster as a security system, it guarding the Temple and Ben being able to summon it? Is there some way to reconcile that with what we know now?

that scene where ben unleashes the smoke monster now seems completely ridiculous after what we know now, and seemed terribly inconsistent with anything previous to or after that scene as regards to how the smoke monster behaves

I would disagree with that. Up to that point, we had been told it was a security system for the island. It acted in defense of the island. I think you're nitpicking.

Right there, I think that is the point of the island and the inhabitants of it. All this time we know these people to lie to each other, kill each other, kidnap each other, and simply be evil to each other yet there are some people in this thread that are taken those same people and what they say as the truth. "The smoke monster is a security system." Through pictures and story we know that to be one interpretation of it but it might not be entirely accurate yet some people are hanging their hat on the assumption that, "the smoke monster is a security system."That is one great thing about this show in that everyone has lied to each other and it allows us to make up our own story and/or our own interpretations of what things are. The examples of this are endless and yet people want to continue believing the lies that each characters proclaims to be true.

 

[The Dude]

So much has happened on this show that it's tough to remember anything, but what ever happened with the multiple mentions of the smoke monster as a security system, it guarding the Temple and Ben being able to summon it? Is there some way to reconcile that with what we know now?

that scene where ben unleashes the smoke monster now seems completely ridiculous after what we know now, and seemed terribly inconsistent with anything previous to or after that scene as regards to how the smoke monster behaves

I would disagree with that. Up to that point, we had been told it was a security system for the island. It acted in defense of the island. I think you're nitpicking.

Right there, I think that is the point of the island and the inhabitants of it. All this time we know these people to lie to each other, kill each other, kidnap each other, and simply be evil to each other yet there are some people in this thread that are taken those same people and what they say as the truth. "The smoke monster is a security system." Through pictures and story we know that to be one interpretation of it but it might not be entirely accurate yet some people are hanging their hat on the assumption that, "the smoke monster is a security system."That is one great thing about this show in that everyone has lied to each other and it allows us to make up our own story and/or our own interpretations of what things are. The examples of this are endless and yet people want to continue believing the lies that each characters proclaims to be true.

I think the point is why would smokey (unLocke) do Ben's bidding? And I completely disagree that the "lies" in the story add to the greatness of the show. I think it's the exact oppostie - several lies appear to have been stated for sheer drama for the veiwers.Like whoever turns the jackass wheel can't return to the island. Or Ben stating he was born and raised on the island and had never left.

 

[menobrown]

Sorry if this was already posted but Bill Simmons did a podcast with Carlton Cuse yesterday which can be found on ESPN.com or Itunes: http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/...&autoplay=1

I've never listened to the Cuse or Lindelof give an interview before so it's possibly they said things some of you have already heard but here are a few of the things I found worthy of note as best I can recall:

1. He said they were allowed to write the finale exactly as they wanted and it was wrote to provide what he felt was an adequate ending. In other words it was not meant to be an ambigous ending and not set up to do a movie later. That being said he mentioned that he does not own Lost, Disney does, and he did not rule out the possibility of a Lost 2 or movie if they wanted to move in that direction.

2. He mentioned if the main reason you watch the show is to get all of your questions answered you will end up disappointed .

3. Said they intentionally dragged the show several episodes and a good chunk of season 2 because they were in limbo and did not have any idea of the end date. Said himself he felt that possibly as much as 1/3rd of the episodes were not good due in large part to not knowing what direction to take the story because they needed an end date. Mentioned some episode I don't recall that explained were Jack got his tattoo's and flew a kite with some kid as what he felt was the worst episode and an episode that did little to advance the narrative. However, he said even a lot of the not so good episodes did advance the narrative. I think he said near the end of season 3 they knew the end date and he felt the amount of filler episodes greatly reduced.

 

[Mario Kart]

Right there, I think that is the point of the island and the inhabitants of it. All this time we know these people to lie to each other, kill each other, kidnap each other, and simply be evil to each other yet there are some people in this thread that are taken those same people and what they say as the truth. "The smoke monster is a security system." Through pictures and story we know that to be one interpretation of it but it might not be entirely accurate yet some people are hanging their hat on the assumption that, "the smoke monster is a security system."That is one great thing about this show in that everyone has lied to each other and it allows us to make up our own story and/or our own interpretations of what things are. The examples of this are endless and yet people want to continue believing the lies that each characters proclaims to be true.

I think the point is why would smokey (unLocke) do Ben's bidding? And I completely disagree that the "lies" in the story add to the greatness of the show. I think it's the exact oppostie - several lies appear to have been stated for sheer drama for the veiwers.Like whoever turns the jackass wheel can't return to the island. Or Ben stating he was born and raised on the island and had never left.

Smokey was not doing Ben's bidding at all. Smokey was doing Smokey's bidding when he took out Keamy and his group. Smokey still needed things to go his way and Ben is/was just a pawn in Smokey's bidding.The lies, all of them, were not for drama. It appears to me that the show wanted the viewer to be a part of the experience and symbolically live on the island. The lies that we know to be lies were truths to the people they were being told to. The lies are a matter of which people control each other. The island would not be compelling if Ben, or Desmond simply said to the Losties that, "we have no idea why we are here, we just are. Have fun." There is no control in that. We have seen people controlling people left and right and a major point in doing so is due to the lies. They were not for drama, they were for manipulation and the viewers fell hook, line and sinker.Again, who would want to watch, or live with a show, that gave truth after truth after truth? That would be a boring show. Ultimately, Rose and Bernard are the two people to come to the realization that they were on the island, were not going to get off of it, and accepted their fate. If only the Losties had done that... they would all be good.

 

[cstu]

This is a couple of years old but it's even funnier now - The Writers of LOST.

 

[Porkchop Express]

Right there, I think that is the point of the island and the inhabitants of it. All this time we know these people to lie to each other, kill each other, kidnap each other, and simply be evil to each other yet there are some people in this thread that are taken those same people and what they say as the truth. "The smoke monster is a security system." Through pictures and story we know that to be one interpretation of it but it might not be entirely accurate yet some people are hanging their hat on the assumption that, "the smoke monster is a security system."That is one great thing about this show in that everyone has lied to each other and it allows us to make up our own story and/or our own interpretations of what things are. The examples of this are endless and yet people want to continue believing the lies that each characters proclaims to be true.

I think the point is why would smokey (unLocke) do Ben's bidding? And I completely disagree that the "lies" in the story add to the greatness of the show. I think it's the exact oppostie - several lies appear to have been stated for sheer drama for the veiwers.Like whoever turns the jackass wheel can't return to the island. Or Ben stating he was born and raised on the island and had never left.

Smokey was not doing Ben's bidding at all. Smokey was doing Smokey's bidding when he took out Keamy and his group. Smokey still needed things to go his way and Ben is/was just a pawn in Smokey's bidding.The lies, all of them, were not for drama. It appears to me that the show wanted the viewer to be a part of the experience and symbolically live on the island. The lies that we know to be lies were truths to the people they were being told to. The lies are a matter of which people control each other. The island would not be compelling if Ben, or Desmond simply said to the Losties that, "we have no idea why we are here, we just are. Have fun." There is no control in that. We have seen people controlling people left and right and a major point in doing so is due to the lies. They were not for drama, they were for manipulation and the viewers fell hook, line and sinker.Again, who would want to watch, or live with a show, that gave truth after truth after truth? That would be a boring show. Ultimately, Rose and Bernard are the two people to come to the realization that they were on the island, were not going to get off of it, and accepted their fate. If only the Losties had done that... they would all be good.

Really? Then why did Smokey only come out when Ben summoned it? You seem to go to great lakes to defend any and all criticism of this show.

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

Right there, I think that is the point of the island and the inhabitants of it. All this time we know these people to lie to each other, kill each other, kidnap each other, and simply be evil to each other yet there are some people in this thread that are taken those same people and what they say as the truth.

"The smoke monster is a security system." Through pictures and story we know that to be one interpretation of it but it might not be entirely accurate yet some people are hanging their hat on the assumption that, "the smoke monster is a security system."

That is one great thing about this show in that everyone has lied to each other and it allows us to make up our own story and/or our own interpretations of what things are. The examples of this are endless and yet people want to continue believing the lies that each characters proclaims to be true.

I think the point is why would smokey (unLocke) do Ben's bidding? And I completely disagree that the "lies" in the story add to the greatness of the show. I think it's the exact oppostie - several lies appear to have been stated for sheer drama for the veiwers.

Like whoever turns the jackass wheel can't return to the island. Or Ben stating he was born and raised on the island and had never left.

Smokey was not doing Ben's bidding at all. Smokey was doing Smokey's bidding when he took out Keamy and his group. Smokey still needed things to go his way and Ben is/was just a pawn in Smokey's bidding.The lies, all of them, were not for drama. It appears to me that the show wanted the viewer to be a part of the experience and symbolically live on the island. The lies that we know to be lies were truths to the people they were being told to. The lies are a matter of which people control each other. The island would not be compelling if Ben, or Desmond simply said to the Losties that, "we have no idea why we are here, we just are. Have fun." There is no control in that. We have seen people controlling people left and right and a major point in doing so is due to the lies. They were not for drama, they were for manipulation and the viewers fell hook, line and sinker.

Again, who would want to watch, or live with a show, that gave truth after truth after truth? That would be a boring show. Ultimately, Rose and Bernard are the two people to come to the realization that they were on the island, were not going to get off of it, and accepted their fate. If only the Losties had done that... they would all be good.

Really? Then why did Smokey only come out when Ben summoned it? You seem to go to great lakes to defend any and all criticism of this show.

must be something in the water.

 

[cstu]

Right there, I think that is the point of the island and the inhabitants of it. All this time we know these people to lie to each other, kill each other, kidnap each other, and simply be evil to each other yet there are some people in this thread that are taken those same people and what they say as the truth. "The smoke monster is a security system." Through pictures and story we know that to be one interpretation of it but it might not be entirely accurate yet some people are hanging their hat on the assumption that, "the smoke monster is a security system."That is one great thing about this show in that everyone has lied to each other and it allows us to make up our own story and/or our own interpretations of what things are. The examples of this are endless and yet people want to continue believing the lies that each characters proclaims to be true.

I think the point is why would smokey (unLocke) do Ben's bidding? And I completely disagree that the "lies" in the story add to the greatness of the show. I think it's the exact oppostie - several lies appear to have been stated for sheer drama for the veiwers.Like whoever turns the jackass wheel can't return to the island. Or Ben stating he was born and raised on the island and had never left.

Smokey was not doing Ben's bidding at all. Smokey was doing Smokey's bidding when he took out Keamy and his group. Smokey still needed things to go his way and Ben is/was just a pawn in Smokey's bidding.The lies, all of them, were not for drama. It appears to me that the show wanted the viewer to be a part of the experience and symbolically live on the island. The lies that we know to be lies were truths to the people they were being told to. The lies are a matter of which people control each other. The island would not be compelling if Ben, or Desmond simply said to the Losties that, "we have no idea why we are here, we just are. Have fun." There is no control in that. We have seen people controlling people left and right and a major point in doing so is due to the lies. They were not for drama, they were for manipulation and the viewers fell hook, line and sinker.Again, who would want to watch, or live with a show, that gave truth after truth after truth? That would be a boring show. Ultimately, Rose and Bernard are the two people to come to the realization that they were on the island, were not going to get off of it, and accepted their fate. If only the Losties had done that... they would all be good.

What you expect in a mystery is for the characters to lie when it is in their interest to do so. It is sloppy and lazy writing to have characters state things as truth simply to deceive the audience.

 

[nysfl2]

Right there, I think that is the point of the island and the inhabitants of it. All this time we know these people to lie to each other, kill each other, kidnap each other, and simply be evil to each other yet there are some people in this thread that are taken those same people and what they say as the truth. "The smoke monster is a security system." Through pictures and story we know that to be one interpretation of it but it might not be entirely accurate yet some people are hanging their hat on the assumption that, "the smoke monster is a security system."That is one great thing about this show in that everyone has lied to each other and it allows us to make up our own story and/or our own interpretations of what things are. The examples of this are endless and yet people want to continue believing the lies that each characters proclaims to be true.

I think the point is why would smokey (unLocke) do Ben's bidding? And I completely disagree that the "lies" in the story add to the greatness of the show. I think it's the exact oppostie - several lies appear to have been stated for sheer drama for the veiwers.Like whoever turns the jackass wheel can't return to the island. Or Ben stating he was born and raised on the island and had never left.

Smokey was not doing Ben's bidding at all. Smokey was doing Smokey's bidding when he took out Keamy and his group. Smokey still needed things to go his way and Ben is/was just a pawn in Smokey's bidding.The lies, all of them, were not for drama. It appears to me that the show wanted the viewer to be a part of the experience and symbolically live on the island. The lies that we know to be lies were truths to the people they were being told to. The lies are a matter of which people control each other. The island would not be compelling if Ben, or Desmond simply said to the Losties that, "we have no idea why we are here, we just are. Have fun." There is no control in that. We have seen people controlling people left and right and a major point in doing so is due to the lies. They were not for drama, they were for manipulation and the viewers fell hook, line and sinker.Again, who would want to watch, or live with a show, that gave truth after truth after truth? That would be a boring show. Ultimately, Rose and Bernard are the two people to come to the realization that they were on the island, were not going to get off of it, and accepted their fate. If only the Losties had done that... they would all be good.

Really? Then why did Smokey only come out when Ben summoned it? You seem to go to great lakes to defend any and all criticism of this show.

Maybe he just shut down the sonic fence so smokey could get in?

 

[oso diablo]

So much has happened on this show that it's tough to remember anything,

Dude, here's a
of the series, from Hurley.

 

[Zaxxon]

You seem to go to great lakes to defend any and all criticism of this show.

You can't really think that this is a real phrase, right?

 

[Mario Kart]

What you expect in a mystery is for the characters to lie when it is in their interest to do so. It is sloppy and lazy writing to have characters state things as truth simply to deceive the audience.

So, you only expect characters to state lies when it is in their best interest and than tell the viewer that they are lying? Your statement completely contradicts itself. I have gone through great lakes to see the show from all sides but most in here want to simply view it from one angle. I think that is doing a real disservice to what the show is trying to get across.

 

[Porkchop Express]

You seem to go to great lakes to defend any and all criticism of this show.

You can't really think that this is a real phrase, right?

Of coarse I dew.

 

[The Dude]

Since I am bored.

An Egyptian god bears two sons - one kind (Jacob) and one troublesome (MIB). Dad doesn't like humans and veiws them a vile lot.

Jacob is showing a great deal of interest in humans - so the dad asks MIB to watchover him and make sure he doesn't go too far. Jacob falls in love with a human woman - maybe even has a child.

Dad is incensed and exiles Jacob to an island. He exiles the brother for not watching over Jacob and keeping him out of this trouble.

The old dude is a loving god and gives Jacob a chance to make things right every once in a while - tied to an Egyptian calendar or something (so like every 50 years).

At those times, Jacob is allowed to draw people to the island in an attempt to prove thier worthiness to his father (or soemthing like that).

I would have been happier with something like that - plus it proves a possible solution to so many things. How did those specific people get on the plane? Their sons of gods so they can impart their will.

Yeah, laugh if you want - but I was bored.

 

[cstu]

What you expect in a mystery is for the characters to lie when it is in their interest to do so. It is sloppy and lazy writing to have characters state things as truth simply to deceive the audience.

So, you only expect characters to state lies when it is in their best interest and than tell the viewer that they are lying? Your statement completely contradicts itself. I have gone through great lakes to see the show from all sides but most in here want to simply view it from one angle. I think that is doing a real disservice to what the show is trying to get across.

I never said that the characters should admit to their lies, but characters to have a reason to lie - such as with Ben in the early seasons. Characters have to believe what they are saying unless it's shown somehow that they have reasons to be lying.Which leads me back to Robert's statement to Rousseau that Smokey is a security system that guards the Temple. If he was indeed controlled somehow by MiB after going into the Temple and saying that Smokey was a security system in order to get Rousseau to lower her gun, but has the MiB not done this with other people on the island? My take on it was that MiB wanted Rousseau killed because she was a candidate and used Robert to do it. However, if that's the case that he could have done the same to have people kill all of the candidates.

 

[stbugs]

I am so glad I stayed out of this thread after all of the intense whining started.

Mario Kart is a fanboy and has some unique ideas sometimes, but are people actually saying that smokey/MIB going after Keamey's team is in any way a whole in the writing. Let's inspect it a bit:

1. Keamey's team was WIDMORE'S team, i.e. the same guy MIB is in direct conflict right now. Gee, hmm, kind of makes sense that he would go after his arch enemy's team.

2. Ben was manipulated by MIB to KILL JACOB. Gee, hmm, kind of makes sense that MIB would help the same guy he plans to use to help him kill his other arch enemy.

Seriously people, think a little bit before just complaining all the time. Even if you argue about Ben summoning him, we have seen that the Others had security fences, so it seems reasonable that Ben would have to let him in somehow to have him help.

 

[Chiwawa]

A potentially great concept that was ultimately fumbled due to poor planning. I'll be glad when it's done a week from now.

 

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

Since I am bored.An Egyptian god bears two sons - one kind (Jacob) and one troublesome (MIB). Dad doesn't like humans and veiws them a vile lot. Jacob is showing a great deal of interest in humans - so the dad asks MIB to watchover him and make sure he doesn't go too far. Jacob falls in love with a human woman - maybe even has a child.Dad is incensed and exiles Jacob to an island. He exiles the brother for not watching over Jacob and keeping him out of this trouble.The old dude is a loving god and gives Jacob a chance to make things right every once in a while - tied to an Egyptian calendar or something (so like every 50 years).At those times, Jacob is allowed to draw people to the island in an attempt to prove thier worthiness to his father (or soemthing like that).I would have been happier with something like that - plus it proves a possible solution to so many things. How did those specific people get on the plane? Their sons of gods so they can impart their will.Yeah, laugh if you want - but I was bored.

I like it

 

[sho nuff]

Since I am bored.An Egyptian god bears two sons - one kind (Jacob) and one troublesome (MIB). Dad doesn't like humans and veiws them a vile lot. Jacob is showing a great deal of interest in humans - so the dad asks MIB to watchover him and make sure he doesn't go too far. Jacob falls in love with a human woman - maybe even has a child.Dad is incensed and exiles Jacob to an island. He exiles the brother for not watching over Jacob and keeping him out of this trouble.The old dude is a loving god and gives Jacob a chance to make things right every once in a while - tied to an Egyptian calendar or something (so like every 50 years).At those times, Jacob is allowed to draw people to the island in an attempt to prove thier worthiness to his father (or soemthing like that).I would have been happier with something like that - plus it proves a possible solution to so many things. How did those specific people get on the plane? Their sons of gods so they can impart their will.Yeah, laugh if you want - but I was bored.

And it would likely be awful TV that nobody would watch...unlike LOST.

 

[Sundays Rule]

 

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

That was cool. Would have liked to have seen Ben but still cool

 

[The Dude]

Since I am bored.An Egyptian god bears two sons - one kind (Jacob) and one troublesome (MIB). Dad doesn't like humans and veiws them a vile lot. Jacob is showing a great deal of interest in humans - so the dad asks MIB to watchover him and make sure he doesn't go too far. Jacob falls in love with a human woman - maybe even has a child.Dad is incensed and exiles Jacob to an island. He exiles the brother for not watching over Jacob and keeping him out of this trouble.The old dude is a loving god and gives Jacob a chance to make things right every once in a while - tied to an Egyptian calendar or something (so like every 50 years).At those times, Jacob is allowed to draw people to the island in an attempt to prove thier worthiness to his father (or soemthing like that).I would have been happier with something like that - plus it proves a possible solution to so many things. How did those specific people get on the plane? Their sons of gods so they can impart their will.Yeah, laugh if you want - but I was bored.

And it would likely be awful TV that nobody would watch...unlike LOST.

I'm deeply hurt.This is your one post since the show has gone down hill? Where's all the defense for the writers you were doing two weeks ago?And if it didn't only have two weeks remaining, the writers would have chased off a lot of veiwers themselves last week.

 

[The Dude]

I am so glad I stayed out of this thread after all of the intense whining started.Mario Kart is a fanboy and has some unique ideas sometimes, but are people actually saying that smokey/MIB going after Keamey's team is in any way a whole in the writing. Let's inspect it a bit:1. Keamey's team was WIDMORE'S team, i.e. the same guy MIB is in direct conflict right now. Gee, hmm, kind of makes sense that he would go after his arch enemy's team.2. Ben was manipulated by MIB to KILL JACOB. Gee, hmm, kind of makes sense that MIB would help the same guy he plans to use to help him kill his other arch enemy.Seriously people, think a little bit before just complaining all the time. Even if you argue about Ben summoning him, we have seen that the Others had security fences, so it seems reasonable that Ben would have to let him in somehow to have him help.

Bugs, you are implying that this ties up neatly - and I am not sure it does - it may tie up but loosely at best.If MIB wanted Widmore's group gone why wait until they are attacking Ben? He had would have had plenty of opportunities.

 

[Sack-Religious]

All in all, not a bad concept. Since we like to nitpick around here, I'll have a go, in bold.

Since I am bored.

An Egyptian god bears two sons - one kind (Jacob) and one troublesome (MIB). Dad doesn't like humans and veiws them a vile lot.

Interesting that a "God" can give birth, but this might have been a typo. Second, I'm not an Egyptologist, but from my basic knowledge not many Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt were "married" and had offspring (and the main ones who were, were also siblings - that'll go over well). Not to mention the whole problem of most of the Gods and Goddesses being part human and part animal. Is Jacob's brother born a pillar of smoke coming out his mom's hoo-ha? Speaking of mom, Egyptian Goddesses were also quite powerful, does she have no say in what happens? Are people just supposed to accept that this is the story, at face value?

Jacob is showing a great deal of interest in humans - so the dad asks MIB to watchover him and make sure he doesn't go too far. Jacob falls in love with a human woman - maybe even has a child.

Sounds a little like the Da Vinci code. How does the brother watch over Jacob? Does a pillar of smoke circle Jacob's head as he's walking around Thebes, Luxor and Karnak kinda like an ancient Pig Pen? Either way, seems a pretty crappy existence for the child of a God.

Dad is incensed and exiles Jacob to an island. He exiles the brother for not watching over Jacob and keeping him out of this trouble.

How does this exile take place? If Jacob's brother wasn't born as smoke, what happens? Dad zapped him?

The old dude is a loving god and gives Jacob a chance to make things right every once in a while - tied to an Egyptian calendar or something (so like every 50 years). At those times, Jacob is allowed to draw people to the island in an attempt to prove thier worthiness to his father (or soemthing like that).

I like this, I can't lie. But if the kids are exiled, how do they draw people to the island? They're exiled, afterall. How come we can't see living, physical incarnations of these Egyptian Gods and Goddesses since apparently they're still around today?

I would have been happier with something like that - plus it proves a possible solution to so many things.

Just how many things does this answer? The heirogplyics and the statue? What else?

How did those specific people get on the plane? Their sons of gods so they can impart their will.

Right, just like the current viewership has to take some explanations, or lack thereof at face value.

Yeah, laugh if you want - but I was bored.

I'm not laughing, it's a legit attempt for an alternate solution. What I'm doing is trying to point out how difficult it is to write any in-depth and intertwined story that people aren't going to nit-pick. I admire your effort at a quick and dirty solution, but I frankly don't think it's that easy, even with a host of writers.

 

[(HULK)]

Some Spoilers on the island for the FINALE.

Ben and MIBLocke are at the well looking for Demond. He's not there. Sawyer shows up also looking for Desmond. Ben catches him, has him at gunpoint. Locke and Sawyer talk, Locke says he's going to destroy the island. Sawyer escapes. Locke and Ben notice paw prints around the well (Vincent's) and track Desmond to Rose and Bernard's island hut. Locke threatens Rose and Bernard, forcing Desmond to surrender to him.

Thats pretty much the begining of the on island happenings. A bit later on, rapelling down a waterfall will play a big part.



*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();

 

[Statorama]

Hulk is doing yeoman work in here.

I'm still going to pass though (but really appreciate the option)

 

[Chiwawa]

Cuse and Lindelof try to backpedal out of Jack saying that Adam and Eve's clothes only looked 50 years old...poorly.

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-wat...-across-the-sea

 

[Dr. No]

Some Spoilers on the island for the FINALE.

Ben and MIBLocke are at the well looking for Demond. He's not there. Sawyer shows up also looking for Desmond. Ben catches him, has him at gunpoint. Locke and Sawyer talk, Locke says he's going to destroy the island. Sawyer escapes. Locke and Ben notice paw prints around the well (Vincent's) and track Desmond to Rose and Bernard's island hut. Locke threatens Rose and Bernard, forcing Desmond to surrender to him.

Thats pretty much the begining of the on island happenings. A bit later on, rapelling down a waterfall will play a big part.
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***");document.close();

What's your source here? i'm not denying credibility, but i'm just curious. I'm sure you are spot on.

 

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

Not doing it

 

[Chiwawa]

Some Spoilers on the island for the FINALE.

Ben and MIBLocke are at the well looking for Demond. He's not there. Sawyer shows up also looking for Desmond. Ben catches him, has him at gunpoint. Locke and Sawyer talk, Locke says he's going to destroy the island. Sawyer escapes. Locke and Ben notice paw prints around the well (Vincent's) and track Desmond to Rose and Bernard's island hut. Locke threatens Rose and Bernard, forcing Desmond to surrender to him.

Thats pretty much the begining of the on island happenings. A bit later on, rapelling down a waterfall will play a big part.
*** SPOILER ALERT! Click this link to display the potential spoiler text in this box. ***

");document.close();

What's your source here? i'm not denying credibility, but i'm just curious. I'm sure you are spot on.I know there was an event in LA this past week where they screened the penultimate episode for a bunch of super-nerds, with a lot of the writers/cast there. I'm guessing it's a report from that.

 

[The Dude]

All in all, not a bad concept. Since we like to nitpick around here, I'll have a go, in bold.

Since I am bored.

An Egyptian god bears two sons - one kind (Jacob) and one troublesome (MIB). Dad doesn't like humans and veiws them a vile lot.

Interesting that a "God" can give birth, but this might have been a typo. Second, I'm not an Egyptologist, but from my basic knowledge not many Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt were "married" and had offspring (and the main ones who were, were also siblings - that'll go over well). Not to mention the whole problem of most of the Gods and Goddesses being part human and part animal. Is Jacob's brother born a pillar of smoke coming out his mom's hoo-ha? Speaking of mom, Egyptian Goddesses were also quite powerful, does she have no say in what happens? Are people just supposed to accept that this is the story, at face value?

Jacob is showing a great deal of interest in humans - so the dad asks MIB to watchover him and make sure he doesn't go too far. Jacob falls in love with a human woman - maybe even has a child.

Sounds a little like the Da Vinci code. How does the brother watch over Jacob? Does a pillar of smoke circle Jacob's head as he's walking around Thebes, Luxor and Karnak kinda like an ancient Pig Pen? Either way, seems a pretty crappy existence for the child of a God.

Dad is incensed and exiles Jacob to an island. He exiles the brother for not watching over Jacob and keeping him out of this trouble.

How does this exile take place? If Jacob's brother wasn't born as smoke, what happens? Dad zapped him?

The old dude is a loving god and gives Jacob a chance to make things right every once in a while - tied to an Egyptian calendar or something (so like every 50 years). At those times, Jacob is allowed to draw people to the island in an attempt to prove thier worthiness to his father (or soemthing like that).

I like this, I can't lie. But if the kids are exiled, how do they draw people to the island? They're exiled, afterall. How come we can't see living, physical incarnations of these Egyptian Gods and Goddesses since apparently they're still around today?

I would have been happier with something like that - plus it proves a possible solution to so many things.

Just how many things does this answer? The heirogplyics and the statue? What else?

How did those specific people get on the plane? Their sons of gods so they can impart their will.

Right, just like the current viewership has to take some explanations, or lack thereof at face value.

Yeah, laugh if you want - but I was bored.

I'm not laughing, it's a legit attempt for an alternate solution. What I'm doing is trying to point out how difficult it is to write any in-depth and intertwined story that people aren't going to nit-pick. I admire your effort at a quick and dirty solution, but I frankly don't think it's that easy, even with a host of writers.

Sack, you should be this critical of the Lost writers.And I agree with the complexity - but if you have a master plan since day one, there should not be any complexity.

I don't want to bore everybody with a response - plus I did it off the cuff.

More on point - to the underlined part, it allows for some "reasonable" extension of the premise in determining answers. Right now we got a normal human being - Jacob - that apparently has powers that span the world (keeping Michael from committing suicide). Or somehow his "touch" is supposed to be special (like with Richard).

All due to some unexplained drink from a wine bottle.

At least the link to Gods could explain some of that - the viewer can minimally grasp the concept.

Thanks for the response.