**** OFFICIAL **** LOST - The TV Series (18 Viewers)

[Incogneto]

If the island is purgatory, and it is all religion based, As an athiest, I am going to be mightily P-O'd!!!!!!!!

 

[Kirby]

Are we ignoring the film and the likelihood that the island is one giant laboratory?

The makers of the film is Dharma, which in a later post above I thorized that "Dharma" is actually God.God produced this film and gave this info to the people on this island (those in pergutory) as motivation for them to continue running the clock which allows them all more time to prove themselves "heaven-worthy"

Basically the film and continuing the timer is a symbol of their "faith"....as in they don't know what's going to happen if the time expires, they just have to have "faith" that keeping it going is the right thing to do. Which, according to my theory, is the right thing to do as it increases the chances of the people in purgotory to prove themselves good enough to move onto heaven.

Obviously God (Dharma) would like everyone to eventually prove themselves good enough to move onto heaven, so the film is just motivation and following its message is proof of their "faith to do the right thing" even amongst all of the unknowns. (same thing as religion is to us now when we are alive)

Also, wanted to add one last thought to give credence to my theory that they are all already dead and presently in pergutory (not yet in Heaven or Hell)The reason they continue to show back stories of every character and what has happened in their past life is to get us all caught up on why all of these people are on the island (in pergutory) in the first place.

Most of the back stories have very mixed messages on what that person was like in the "past" (which what I'm theorizing as being their living life). Half the time they show a past story that shows the character as a good, loving person.....and the other half the time they show the character as an evil, manipulating person. Which is exactly what Pergutory is.....not evil enough to go to Hell, but not good enough to go to Heaven. They are now on this island (pergutory) needing to finally prove themselves one way or the other and Dharma (God) will eventually make a decision on where they will end up next.

I really believe everyone is getting way too caught up into every little nuance of the show and trying to breakdown every little message to try to figure out what is going on (which is what the writers want the viewers to do).

What we need to do is just take a step back and look at the big picture of what is going on in this show...

Dharma: God

Black Smoke: Devil

the Island: Pergutory

the people on the island: people who have died, but their fate of Heaven or Hell hasn't been decided for them yet.

the people's time on the island: an "afterlife" putting each person in extreme situations to help bring out their true emotions and soul that will be used to help God make a final determination as to whether or not to allow that person to move onto Heaven, or let them be taken to Hell by the Devil.

The entire show is one big message of Heaven and Hell and Good and Evil. Everything else that is going on is just filler and twists and turns to make us believe it's more than that.

That would make sense why the kids get taken.. kids are innocent and get a free pass into heaven? Two sets of others.. God's angels and the Devil's?

 

[cstu]

I've heard a few theories--VR game, purgatory, etc.--that all basically boil down to "They woke up and discovered it was all a dream."

Now, I doubt whatever resolution this show reaches is going to be satisfactory to everyone, but in my book if they go the "dream" route or any of its variants, I am going to be really, really pissed off.

I will be interested to see how they catch all the balls they have in the air. I doubt we'll be able to guess it in advance--hope we won't, anyway.

I'll probably get flamed for this as I'm not a die-hard Lost theorist or anything, but just going on what I watch and my personal beliefs of what is happening on the show. I realize that there will be holes on these thoughts, etc. from those who break down every second of every show, but overall what I think is happening is this...I'm going under the assumption that all of these people are already dead and the island is pergutory.

Pergutory by my meaning is the place that one goes when they die that is neither Heaven or Hell. They haven't done enough good to go to Heaven and haven't done enough bad to go to Hell.

That is why new characters continue to be introduced......more people are dying at a later date than the time the plane crashed and now ending up in pergutory (the island). All of the people that were already on the island before the plane crash died earlier than the plane crash victims and are still in pergutory.

The island is a place for these people that have not yet been determined "Heaven worthy" to carry out whatever it is they need to accomplish to hopefully be deemed worthy to move onto heaven. The island (pergutory) eventually brings out the true characters which is why we are now seeing each character starting to turn to the "bad side" (which when they eventually die on the show will move onto hell) or "good side" (which when they eventually die on the show will move onto heaven)

This is why children are so valuable on the island and stay there longer and grow into adults on the island....they haven't had a long enough "living life" to prove themselves one way or the other. The island is a place for them to carry out whatever personality they would've had when they were alive to prove if their soul is "good" or "evil" and eventually move onto heaven or hell.

This thought was also made clearer to me when you guys broke down the heiroglyphic symbols on the clock last night as basically meaning "Death"

I have a feeling that if they let the clock go fully to zero it could possibly mean that everyone that is presently in "pergutory" (meaning everyone presently on the island) would have their time expired to prove themselves that they are "heaven worthy". Thus, letting the time expire would seal everyone on the island's fate to Hell. But, by keeping the clock going, means it gives them all more time to prove that they are worthy of eventually moving onto heaven.

The island is a place for these people that have not yet been determined "Heaven worthy" to carry out whatever it is they need to accomplish to hopefully be deemed worthy to move onto heaven.

So what did Boone and Shannon do to get out of purgatory?

 

[Capella]

Are we ignoring the film and the likelihood that the island is one giant laboratory?

The makers of the film is Dharma, which in a later post above I thorized that "Dharma" is actually God.God produced this film and gave this info to the people on this island (those in pergutory) as motivation for them to continue running the clock which allows them all more time to prove themselves "heaven-worthy"

Basically the film and continuing the timer is a symbol of their "faith"....as in they don't know what's going to happen if the time expires, they just have to have "faith" that keeping it going is the right thing to do. Which, according to my theory, is the right thing to do as it increases the chances of the people in purgotory to prove themselves good enough to move onto heaven.

Obviously God (Dharma) would like everyone to eventually prove themselves good enough to move onto heaven, so the film is just motivation and following its message is proof of their "faith to do the right thing" even amongst all of the unknowns. (same thing as religion is to us now when we are alive)

Also, wanted to add one last thought to give credence to my theory that they are all already dead and presently in pergutory (not yet in Heaven or Hell)The reason they continue to show back stories of every character and what has happened in their past life is to get us all caught up on why all of these people are on the island (in pergutory) in the first place.

Most of the back stories have very mixed messages on what that person was like in the "past" (which what I'm theorizing as being their living life). Half the time they show a past story that shows the character as a good, loving person.....and the other half the time they show the character as an evil, manipulating person. Which is exactly what Pergutory is.....not evil enough to go to Hell, but not good enough to go to Heaven. They are now on this island (pergutory) needing to finally prove themselves one way or the other and Dharma (God) will eventually make a decision on where they will end up next.

I really believe everyone is getting way too caught up into every little nuance of the show and trying to breakdown every little message to try to figure out what is going on (which is what the writers want the viewers to do).

What we need to do is just take a step back and look at the big picture of what is going on in this show...

Dharma: God

Black Smoke: Devil

the Island: Pergutory

the people on the island: people who have died, but their fate of Heaven or Hell hasn't been decided for them yet.

the people's time on the island: an "afterlife" putting each person in extreme situations to help bring out their true emotions and soul that will be used to help God make a final determination as to whether or not to allow that person to move onto Heaven, or let them be taken to Hell by the Devil.

The entire show is one big message of Heaven and Hell and Good and Evil. Everything else that is going on is just filler and twists and turns to make us believe it's more than that.

 

[cstu]

I would bet any amount of money that the island is NOT purgatory.

 

[prosopis]

I'll probably get flamed for this as I'm not a die-hard Lost theorist or anything, but just going on what I watch and my personal beliefs of what is happening on the show.  I realize that there will be holes on these thoughts, etc. from those who break down every second of every show, but overall what I think is happening is this...

I'm going under the assumption that all of these people are already dead and the island is pergutory.

Pergutory by my meaning is the place that one goes when they die that is neither Heaven or Hell.   They haven't done enough good to go to Heaven and haven't done enough bad to go to Hell.

That is why new characters continue to be introduced......more people are dying at a later date than the time the plane crashed and now ending up in pergutory (the island).   All of the people that were already on the island before the plane crash died earlier than the plane crash victims and are still in pergutory.

The island is a place for these people that have not yet been determined "Heaven worthy" to carry out whatever it is they need to accomplish to hopefully be deemed worthy to move onto heaven.   The island (pergutory) eventually brings out the true characters which is why we are now seeing each character starting to turn to the "bad side" (which when they eventually die on the show will move onto hell) or "good side" (which when they eventually die on the show will move onto heaven)

This is why children are so valuable on the island and stay there longer and grow into adults on the island....they haven't had a long enough "living life" to prove themselves one way or the other.  The island is a place for them to carry out whatever personality they would've had when they were alive to prove if their soul is "good" or "evil" and eventually move onto heaven or hell.

This thought was also made clearer to me when you guys broke down the heiroglyphic symbols on the clock last night as basically meaning "Death"

I have a feeling that if they let the clock go fully to zero it could possibly mean that everyone that is presently in "pergutory" (meaning everyone presently on the island) would have their time expired to prove themselves that they are "heaven worthy".    Thus, letting the time expire would seal everyone on the island's fate to Hell.  But, by keeping the clock going, means it gives them all more time to prove that they are worthy of eventually moving onto heaven.

Also wanted to add on my theory quoted above..... that I believe the Black Smoke is a symbol for the Devil. When it comes, it usually kills somebody, meaning they have done enough to prove themselves as a bad person for the Devil to come and claim them to Hell.Also, this is why the black smoke sought out Ecko and went face to face with him, but didn't take him.....when they went face to face it examined Ecko's past to show his dark side and was ready to take him to Hell, but eventually caught up to his present holy self and retreated, realizing he is becoming too good of a person in pergutory to go to Hell.

And obviously with my theory, Dharma, the whispers, and whatever is looking over the island are all symbols for God who is watching the happenings of everyone on the island (in pergutory) to eventually make the determination to allow any of them to move onto Heaven or let the Devil (black smoke) take them to Hell.

One thing I hesitated to raise when I was looking into the hieroglyphics, but if you want fuel for this particular fire:Of the first three characters, we're missing the middle one. Using one phonetic pronounciation of character 3, you'd get a word that would look like this in English:

S__an

Not that I'm necessarily pimping the idea that they have the Devil chained up on that island, but since you mentioned him....

First of all it is spelled purgatory.(I am not a spelling freak by any stretch of the imagination, but felt this must be said)Secondly Purgatory is a place you go for purification before going to heaven to see God. No one in purgatory goes to hell. If you find your self in purgatory after death it is not a question of if you are going to heaven but when.

So I would say this theory has been busted.

 

[prosopis]

Does the Church still teach about purgatory?

This is a question often asked with good reason: Catholics seldom hear purgatory mentioned in homilies. But, yes, we still have this teaching as part of our faith–one, by the way, which is terribly misunderstood by our Protestant friends—and even some Catholics.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church has just three, but very important, paragraphs on purgatory. The first paragraph reads, “All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but are still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven” (#1030).

Is purgatory in the Bible?

The concept of purgatory is one that most of our Protestant sisters and brothers find almost repulsive and without proof. “Find it in the Bible,” we are challenged and, of course, the word purgatory is not found in the Bible. But then again, neither are the words Trinity or Incarnation. Nevertheless, there is a scriptural basis for purgatory. The tradition of prayer for the deceased (thus indicating that they are not yet in total union with God in heaven) goes back to the Old Testament in the Book of Maccabees: “[Judas Maccabeus] took up a collection among his soldiers…which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for expiatory sacrifice. In doing this, he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless to pray for them in death” (2 Mac 12:43ff, italics added).

Why is purgatory necessary?

Purgatory is an extremely important teaching because it helps us understand, as clearly as humanly possible, what it means to have a relationship with God and how the consequences of our sins detract from the perfect relationship with God—heaven.

You will find that other Christian denominations struggle with this doctrine of “purification.” They believe that Jesus died for all sin, but they tend to view human nature a bit more negatively than do Roman Catholics.

So, they say that if you accept Jesus’ saving death, then all your sins are covered over like white snow covers up garbage. (This was Martin Luther’s image.) With this, you simply go directly to heaven. And for some Christians, the belief is that once you are saved, you can’t lose salvation—no matter what you do. According to these beliefs, there is no middle ground and no reason for purgatory.

However, our Catholic faith insists that middle ground (purgatory) is essential, because as free human beings (wounded as we are) we are still responsible for our sins and, with God’s help, can do something.

God treats us like adults and we must own our sins and face them as offenses against God’s goodness. We must understand what sin really means, and this can be accomplished only after death. It is not that Jesus’ death is not sufficient. It is; he did it for us. However, we are partners with Jesus in allowing that ultimate perfect union with God to take place.

What prevents that perfect union? It is sin on our part that prevents perfect union and that is what purgatory is about: healing the unforgiven sin in our souls and the unrepaired aspects of our personal sins that have already forgiven. Sin that is not mortal impedes—not the union we have with God because of sanctifying grace, but rather our perfect union with God, which is what heaven is: “So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Mt 5:48).

An important final note is to realize that those who die without mortal sin are truly saved. They know it. They are ecstatic about that knowledge, and it can never be taken away from them. They are saved and already are in union with God by sanctifying grace, though it is not yet perfect or complete.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[The Dude]

Enough purgatory - it's been denied by the writers but I bet they wish they hadn't done so.

Doesn't anyone think Rousseau (sp) kind of set Sayid up - she says something like "He will lie and he will lie for a long time" - almost saying "you have to torture him"

Another thing, Sawyer was kind of a jerk when he swindled the guns last week. But I'm thinking he may have done something seemingly noble.

The others told them that if the survivors keep to their own, they will be left alone. Then they had Kate at gunpoint.

So fearing Jack's army will bring about a backlash from the others, Sawyer takes the guns thus preventing Jack from taking the offensive. So now the group - especially Kate - will be unharmed. But he assumes the role of the jerk to get it done. That's so Lost, you can book it.

 

[Dog]

got this off of another foream.....

"The book that Locke took off the bookshelf was called "Occurrance at Owl Creek Bridge." It's really a short story by Ambrose Bierce, and one of its central themes is the perception of time. "

Don't forget about "The Third Policeman" by Flann O'Brien, which is told from the perspective of a dead man. I think the purgatory idea would fit very well, but it would surprise me since they so clearly denied it.

 

[Challenge Everything]

The whole idea of Purgatory, to me, is stupid. Explain the reasons for all to be in Austrailia and flying and etc. etc. It is a huge reach to make claims of the island equaling Purgatory. When did God try and deceive (the tape) the people in Purgatory?

The island is a big unethical psychological experiment. This is on the ranks the Milgrim experiment and the Standford Prison experiment. As an added angle the island acts like a kind of Jurassic Park "Lost World" atomsphere. The combonation of these three give much more credence to any Purgatory theory. But hey, that is what I think.

 

[PC Load Letter]

Ok.. enough Purgatory crap.

No mention of the 3rd hatch with the Caduceus looking symbol on it?

I rewound tivo. CONCLUSIVELY it IS the Caduceus from medicine. So there is hatch for medical experiments and/or treatment.

 

[PC Load Letter]

I read something like this on another board, but there are a lot of Apollo references regarding the hatches.

1. The Apollo candy bar

2. The swan logo - Apollo rode on a swan to visit the Hyperborean (a mythical people who lived in a mountain paradise)

3. The arrow logo - Apollo was 'The Archer'

4. The Caduceus logo - the medicine symbol given to Hermes by Apollo in exchange for a lire.

I wish there was a conclusive picture of the symbol on the shark's fin. (There is a fish called the Apollo Shark but it's only 8" and not a real shark)

EDIT: Wiki link, http://tviv.org/wiki/Lost/Dharma_Initiative

 

[Sludge]

The whole idea of Purgatory, to me, is stupid. Explain the reasons for all to be in Austrailia and flying and etc. etc. It is a huge reach to make claims of the island equaling Purgatory. When did God try and deceive (the tape) the people in Purgatory?

The island is a big unethical psychological experiment. This is on the ranks the Milgrim experiment and the Standford Prison experiment. As an added angle the island acts like a kind of Jurassic Park "Lost World" atomsphere. The combonation of these three give much more credence to any Purgatory theory. But hey, that is what I think.

Pretty much agree.I don't think there was a plane crash at all. Yes we saw the tail go into the water and we saw people come out of the water but we never saw people coming out of the tail section into the water.

I think they were all chosen for a reason. Maybe that is why so many of them cross paths in their flashbacks. Who knows maybe when the final resolution comes will see a lot of those scenes again from a different angle and we'll see someone else or something else that we don't know right now in all of those scenes. That might seem kind of lame right now but I feel that at the end there will be one thing (event, person, location) that ties all of the main characters together.

Oh and Claire can go running around screaming that a Dingo took her BAYBEE for all I care, she is fine and has a sexy accent.

 

[Sludge]

I read something like this on another board, but there are a lot of Apollo references regarding the hatches.

1. The Apollo candy bar

2. The swan logo - Apollo rode on a swan to visit the Hyperborean (a mythical people who lived in a mountain paradise)

3. The arrow logo - Apollo was 'The Archer'

4. The Caduceus logo - the medicine symbol given to Hermes by Apollo in exchange for a lire.

I wish there was a conclusive picture of the symbol on the shark's fin. (There is a fish called the Apollo Shark but it's only 8" and not a real shark)

Wasn't Apollo Zesus' son? If so how was their relationship? Also, did Apollo have any children?

 

[PC Load Letter]

I read something like this on another board, but there are a lot of Apollo references regarding the hatches.

1. The Apollo candy bar

2. The swan logo - Apollo rode on a swan to visit the Hyperborean (a mythical people who lived in a mountain paradise)

3. The arrow logo - Apollo was 'The Archer'

4. The Caduceus logo - the medicine symbol given to Hermes by Apollo in exchange for a lire.

I wish there was a conclusive picture of the symbol on the shark's fin. (There is a fish called the Apollo Shark but it's only 8" and not a real shark)

Wasn't Apollo Zesus' son? If so how was their relationship? Also, did Apollo have any children?

Found this quote on a site selling Apollo busts of all things...

Apollo was the most widely revered of the Greek gods. In mythology he communicated the will of his father Zeus, the son made humans aware of their guilt and purified them of it, presided over religious and civil law, and foretold the future. He symbolized both the good and the bad of the civic responsibility to govern.

About.com Fast Facts http://gogreece.about.com/cs/mythology/a/mythapollo.htm

 

[packersfan]

I don't know how many of you remember this but back in Season 1, ABC had an episode blurb the night after the episode that Danielle came to the camp and ran off with Aaron. The episode blurb (I personally read it) had some text in it that did not make the actual show where Claire was supposedly remembering Danielle being part of the abduction group the first time. Claire scratched Danielle in the struggle (again not in the TV show itself). In the actual TV show there was a discussion between Kate or Claire and Danielle where Kate/Claire asked Danielle how she got scratches on her arm.

It was between Locke and Danielle when they were on their way to the ship to get the explosives. Locke asked Danielle how she got the scratches and I believe she said she got them on a bush. Locke didn't buy it. And I believe -- and I'm going totally off memory here -- that Claire did have a memory of scratching Danielle. That may have been in Exodus Part 1 or 2. Again, I'm not sure about that because it's been awhile since I watched either episode.

I haven't read the thread to the end so my apologies if this has already been covered.

 

[Sludge]

Found this quote on a site selling Apollo busts of all things...

Apollo was the most widely revered of the Greek gods. In mythology he communicated the will of his father Zeus, the son made humans aware of their guilt and purified them of it, presided over religious and civil law, and foretold the future. He symbolized both the good and the bad of the civic responsibility to govern.

About.com Fast Facts http://gogreece.about.com/cs/mythology/a/mythapollo.htm

Found some more. I guess google really is a friend. There are some interesting things about Zesus killing Apollo's son. We got some arrows, snakes, people being healed. Apollo was associated with law, philosophy, and the arts. He sometimes gave the gift of prophecy to mortals whom he loved, such as the Trojan princess Cassandra.

One of the most important Olympian gods; son of Zeus and Leto, twin brother of Artemis.

He is considered the ideal of manly beauty, so that a very handsome man might be called an “Apollo”. He is also the god of poetry and music.

Apollo replaced the Titan Helios as the sun god; however, the Greeks didn’t delete Helios completely but referred to both of them as the Sun gods.

The arrows of Apollo and Artemis invariably killed and the Greeks explained epidemics of diseases by supposing that they were shooting their arrows at people; and so, by praying to Apollo, the epidemic might be made to stop. In this way, Apollo became associated with the cure of diseases.

Such so-called cures led to a myth in which Apollo was thought to have had a son, Asclepius (as KLEP ee uhs), who is better known under the Roman version of the name, Aesculapius (es" kyoo LAY pee uhs).

He was a mortal medical healer who was so successful that he was reputed to have the ability to bring the dead back to life; which resulted in complaints by Hades. As a result, to keep peace in the godly family, Zeus killed him with a thunderbolt.

After his death, Aesculapius became a god and he was also placed among the constellations, where he is pictured as a man holding a serpent in his hands (similar to the following image).

 

[bobspruill]

The whole idea of Purgatory, to me, is stupid. Explain the reasons for all to be in Austrailia and flying and etc. etc. It is a huge reach to make claims of the island equaling Purgatory. When did God try and deceive (the tape) the people in Purgatory?

The island is a big unethical psychological experiment. This is on the ranks the Milgrim experiment and the Standford Prison experiment. As an added angle the island acts like a kind of Jurassic Park "Lost World" atomsphere. The combonation of these three give much more credence to any Purgatory theory. But hey, that is what I think.

I don't like the purgatory explanation, either, but the experiment one needs a reach as well. Hurley got his numbers, IIRC, from a guy in an insane asylum who heard them on a transmission during WWII. And the Black Rock seems like an indication that the island has been doing its thing (whatever that is, exactly) for a good long time.

 

[Dr. van Nostrand]

The whole idea of Purgatory, to me, is stupid. Explain the reasons for all to be in Austrailia and flying and etc. etc. It is a huge reach to make claims of the island equaling Purgatory. When did God try and deceive (the tape) the people in Purgatory?

The island is a big unethical psychological experiment. This is on the ranks the Milgrim experiment and the Standford Prison experiment. As an added angle the island acts like a kind of Jurassic Park "Lost World" atomsphere. The combonation of these three give much more credence to any Purgatory theory. But hey, that is what I think.

I don't like the purgatory explanation, either, but the experiment one needs a reach as well. Hurley got his numbers, IIRC, from a guy in an insane asylum who heard them on a transmission during WWII. And the Black Rock seems like an indication that the island has been doing its thing (whatever that is, exactly) for a good long time.

The Black Rock is a good point, but Toomey didnt hear the transmission in WWII. He heard it around the same time Rousseau did (~16 years ago).

 

[jplvr]

siap, but didn't Hurley mention time in talking to Sawyer? I remember something about it, but haven't watched a 2nd time.

 

[Dr. van Nostrand]

siap, but didn't Hurley mention time in talking to Sawyer? I remember something about it, but haven't watched a 2nd time.

He mentioned time talking to Sayid last episode ...

... or any time

I'm not a good person

The writers seem to be enjoying themselves...

 

[Challenge Everything]

March 1st is the next new show.

 

[Wingnut]

Man I used to like this thread, but all these theories and speculation and fine-tooth-combing has my head ready to explode.

 

[tdoss]

Sawyer was definitely affected by that frog...you could see him start to sway a bit as he was holding it. I knew as soon as they showed that little bugger...YOU DO NOT TOUCH IT...lick it maybe...but definitely don't touch it!

Can't wait to see how it affects him in the next episode...wonder if Jack will withhold care in order to get some guns...

 

[cstu]

Enough purgatory - it's been denied by the writers but I bet they wish they hadn't done so.

Doesn't anyone think Rousseau (sp) kind of set Sayid up - she says something like "He will lie and he will lie for a long time" - almost saying "you have to torture him"

Another thing, Sawyer was kind of a jerk when he swindled the guns last week. But I'm thinking he may have done something seemingly noble.

The others told them that if the survivors keep to their own, they will be left alone. Then they had Kate at gunpoint.

So fearing Jack's army will bring about a backlash from the others, Sawyer takes the guns thus preventing Jack from taking the offensive. So now the group - especially Kate - will be unharmed. But he assumes the role of the jerk to get it done. That's so Lost, you can book it.

Sawyer is easily the most interesting character on the island. He goes out of his way to make people hate him, but much of what he does has a second motive that actually benefits people. Stealing the guns was a great example - he can make people hate him and at the same time do something he knows is good for everyone. Even when he insulted Hugo calling him Babar, the cartoon elephant , he really didn't like doing it. His threat to tell the survivors about the ranch dressing was really just to get Hugo to help him find the frog and he probably wouldn't have done told anyone.

 

[apalmer]

Found this quote on a site selling Apollo busts of all things...

Apollo was the most widely revered of the Greek gods. In mythology he communicated the will of his father Zeus, the son made humans aware of their guilt and purified them of it, presided over religious and civil law, and foretold the future. He symbolized both the good and the bad of the civic responsibility to govern.

About.com Fast Facts http://gogreece.about.com/cs/mythology/a/mythapollo.htm

Found some more. I guess google really is a friend. There are some interesting things about Zesus killing Apollo's son. We got some arrows, snakes, people being healed. Apollo was associated with law, philosophy, and the arts. He sometimes gave the gift of prophecy to mortals whom he loved, such as the Trojan princess Cassandra.

One of the most important Olympian gods; son of Zeus and Leto, twin brother of Artemis.

He is considered the ideal of manly beauty, so that a very handsome man might be called an “Apollo”. He is also the god of poetry and music.

Apollo replaced the Titan Helios as the sun god; however, the Greeks didn’t delete Helios completely but referred to both of them as the Sun gods.

The arrows of Apollo and Artemis invariably killed and the Greeks explained epidemics of diseases by supposing that they were shooting their arrows at people; and so, by praying to Apollo, the epidemic might be made to stop. In this way, Apollo became associated with the cure of diseases.

Such so-called cures led to a myth in which Apollo was thought to have had a son, Asclepius (as KLEP ee uhs), who is better known under the Roman version of the name, Aesculapius (es" kyoo LAY pee uhs).

He was a mortal medical healer who was so successful that he was reputed to have the ability to bring the dead back to life; which resulted in complaints by Hades. As a result, to keep peace in the godly family, Zeus killed him with a thunderbolt.

After his death, Aesculapius became a god and he was also placed among the constellations, where he is pictured as a man holding a serpent in his hands (similar to the following image).

Don't forget he also has that funny little soul patch and skates really fast!

 

[The Noid]

got this off of another foream.....

"The book that Locke took off the bookshelf was called "Occurrance at Owl Creek Bridge." It's really a short story by Ambrose Bierce, and one of its central themes is the perception of time. "

Don't forget about "The Third Policeman" by Flann O'Brien, which is told from the perspective of a dead man. I think the purgatory idea would fit very well, but it would surprise me since they so clearly denied it.

Or, like the washer/dryer comment, the book was placed in the episode for the purpose of the writers sticking their tongue out at us.

 

[BGP]

So what you guys are saying is the plane didn't crash - it was in effect hijacked by the roman gods themselves, who then dropped them on this island for fun (along with the other groups) to screw with them for their own pleasure.

 

[The Noid]

So what you guys are saying is the plane didn't crash - it was in effect hijacked by the roman gods themselves, who then dropped them on this island for fun (along with the other groups) to screw with them for their own pleasure.

I like that theory! The whole show is a modern take on "Clash of the Titans."

 

[Dash]

I don't know how many of you remember this but back in Season 1, ABC had an episode blurb the night after the episode that Danielle came to the camp and ran off with Aaron. The episode blurb (I personally read it) had some text in it that did not make the actual show where Claire was supposedly remembering Danielle being part of the abduction group the first time. Claire scratched Danielle in the struggle (again not in the TV show itself). In the actual TV show there was a discussion between Kate or Claire and Danielle where Kate/Claire asked Danielle how she got scratches on her arm.

It was between Locke and Danielle when they were on their way to the ship to get the explosives. Locke asked Danielle how she got the scratches and I believe she said she got them on a bush. Locke didn't buy it. And I believe -- and I'm going totally off memory here -- that Claire did have a memory of scratching Danielle. That may have been in Exodus Part 1 or 2. Again, I'm not sure about that because it's been awhile since I watched either episode.

I haven't read the thread to the end so my apologies if this has already been covered.

You're correct. Claire did remember Danielle scratching her. It was in Exodus Part 2, just before Danielle took Aaron. There was a flashback of the incident.

 

[Buckychudd]

Man I used to like this thread, but all these theories and speculation and fine-tooth-combing has my head ready to explode.

Ummm, you must be new here.....it's always been this way.

 

[Sabertooth]

Sawyer was definitely affected by that frog...you could see him start to sway a bit as he was holding it. I knew as soon as they showed that little bugger...YOU DO NOT TOUCH IT...lick it maybe...but definitely don't touch it!

Can't wait to see how it affects him in the next episode...wonder if Jack will withhold care in order to get some guns...

I said something to my wife to the same effect when I saw that scene.

 

[Sabertooth]

So what you guys are saying is the plane didn't crash - it was in effect hijacked by the roman gods themselves, who then dropped them on this island for fun (along with the other groups) to screw with them for their own pleasure.

I like that theory! The whole show is a modern take on "Clash of the Titans."

I think they are talking about Greek gods. The Roman gods were cheap knockoffs. Greek gods = Jackson 5

Roman gods = New Kids on the Block

 

[Alias]

Ecuadorian

Tree Frog

wth

Ecuadorian Tree Frog

http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/studentw...up13/frogs.html

 

[bobspruill]

Sawyer was definitely affected by that frog...you could see him start to sway a bit as he was holding it.  I knew as soon as they showed that little bugger...YOU DO NOT TOUCH IT...lick it maybe...but definitely don't touch it!

Can't wait to see how it affects him in the next episode...wonder if Jack will withhold care in order to get some guns...

I said something to my wife to the same effect when I saw that scene.

My wife and I were talking about that, too. Not that they won't go this direction, but typically tree frogs with poisonous secretions are brightly colored as a warning--mother nature's version of truth in advertising. Sawyer's frog looked rather ordinary to me.

 

[packersfan]

I don't know how many of you remember this but back in Season 1, ABC had an episode blurb the night after the episode that Danielle came to the camp and ran off with Aaron. The episode blurb (I personally read it) had some text in it that did not make the actual show where Claire was supposedly remembering Danielle being part of the abduction group the first time. Claire scratched Danielle in the struggle (again not in the TV show itself). In the actual TV show there was a discussion between Kate or Claire and Danielle where Kate/Claire asked Danielle how she got scratches on her arm.

It was between Locke and Danielle when they were on their way to the ship to get the explosives. Locke asked Danielle how she got the scratches and I believe she said she got them on a bush. Locke didn't buy it. And I believe -- and I'm going totally off memory here -- that Claire did have a memory of scratching Danielle. That may have been in Exodus Part 1 or 2. Again, I'm not sure about that because it's been awhile since I watched either episode.

I haven't read the thread to the end so my apologies if this has already been covered.

You're correct. Claire did remember Danielle scratching her. It was in Exodus Part 2, just before Danielle took Aaron. There was a flashback of the incident.

That's what I thought but I wasn't 100% sure. Thanks.

 

[apalmer]

So what you guys are saying is the plane didn't crash - it was in effect hijacked by the roman gods themselves, who then dropped them on this island for fun (along with the other groups) to screw with them for their own pleasure.

Greek, but still a rip-off of Star Trek.

 

[shadyridr]

Umm if it was purgatory why the hell would Jack and Hurley be on the island? We've seen a ton of Jack flashbacks and he seems to be 100% good.

 

[Capella]

Ecuadorian

Tree Frog

wth

Ecuadorian Tree Frog

http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/studentw...up13/frogs.html

Epipedobates tricolor is one of the most poisonous frogs known to man, a single frog capable of knocking out a huge water buffalo. 20 Contact with the potent secretions on the skin of the frog produces muscle paralysis and cardiorespiratory depression, eventually leading to death

Oops.I like the idea of Jack withholding care to get back what he wants. When you get down to it, Jack has the ultimate power on the island.

 

[bobspruill]

Umm if it was purgatory why the hell would Jack and Hurley be on the island? We've seen a ton of Jack flashbacks and he seems to be 100% good.

Yeah, that's why I don't really think the moral dimension of the purgatory theory fits.What the castaways do have in common, though, is some sort of need to come to terms with themselves, or their pasts. Then again, I suppose you could say everyone has that need at some level.

 

[(HULK)]

Umm if it was purgatory why the hell would Jack and Hurley be on the island? We've seen a ton of Jack flashbacks and he seems to be 100% good.

Yeah, that's why I don't really think the moral dimension of the purgatory theory fits.What the castaways do have in common, though, is some sort of need to come to terms with themselves, or their pasts. Then again, I suppose you could say everyone has that need at some level.

Why bother putting the pilot or the guy who got torn up by the engine in purgatory to kill them within their first hour there?The purgatory theory is one that doesn't make sense to me.

 

[The Noid]

Umm if it was purgatory why the hell would Jack and Hurley be on the island? We've seen a ton of Jack flashbacks and he seems to be 100% good.

Yeah, that's why I don't really think the moral dimension of the purgatory theory fits.What the castaways do have in common, though, is some sort of need to come to terms with themselves, or their pasts. Then again, I suppose you could say everyone has that need at some level.

Why bother putting the pilot or the guy who got torn up by the engine in purgatory to kill them within their first hour there?The purgatory theory is one that doesn't make sense to me.

But I think the more the writers deny it and fans de-bunk it, the more some people are going to believe it.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Are we ignoring the film and the likelihood that the island is one giant laboratory?

The makers of the film is Dharma, which in a later post above I thorized that "Dharma" is actually God.God produced this film and gave this info to the people on this island (those in pergutory) as motivation for them to continue running the clock which allows them all more time to prove themselves "heaven-worthy"

Basically the film and continuing the timer is a symbol of their "faith"....as in they don't know what's going to happen if the time expires, they just have to have "faith" that keeping it going is the right thing to do. Which, according to my theory, is the right thing to do as it increases the chances of the people in purgotory to prove themselves good enough to move onto heaven.

Obviously God (Dharma) would like everyone to eventually prove themselves good enough to move onto heaven, so the film is just motivation and following its message is proof of their "faith to do the right thing" even amongst all of the unknowns. (same thing as religion is to us now when we are alive)

Why did God splice out the part about using the computers for anything other than resetting the clock and hide it in the other bunker?

 

[aardball44]

Are we ignoring the film and the likelihood that the island is one giant laboratory?

The makers of the film is Dharma, which in a later post above I thorized that "Dharma" is actually God.God produced this film and gave this info to the people on this island (those in pergutory) as motivation for them to continue running the clock which allows them all more time to prove themselves "heaven-worthy"

Basically the film and continuing the timer is a symbol of their "faith"....as in they don't know what's going to happen if the time expires, they just have to have "faith" that keeping it going is the right thing to do. Which, according to my theory, is the right thing to do as it increases the chances of the people in purgotory to prove themselves good enough to move onto heaven.

Obviously God (Dharma) would like everyone to eventually prove themselves good enough to move onto heaven, so the film is just motivation and following its message is proof of their "faith to do the right thing" even amongst all of the unknowns. (same thing as religion is to us now when we are alive)

Why did God splice out the part about using the computers for anything other than resetting the clock and hide it in the other bunker?

Forbidden Fruit...?

 

[Dash]

Sawyer was definitely affected by that frog...you could see him start to sway a bit as he was holding it. I knew as soon as they showed that little bugger...YOU DO NOT TOUCH IT...lick it maybe...but definitely don't touch it!

Can't wait to see how it affects him in the next episode...wonder if Jack will withhold care in order to get some guns...

I said something to my wife to the same effect when I saw that scene.

My wife and I were talking about that, too. Not that they won't go this direction, but typically tree frogs with poisonous secretions are brightly colored as a warning--mother nature's version of truth in advertising. Sawyer's frog looked rather ordinary to me.

You must be watching in SD and not HD. The frog was bright green and black.

 

[TheRingLeader$]

So what you guys are saying is the plane didn't crash - it was in effect hijacked by the roman gods themselves, who then dropped them on this island for fun (along with the other groups) to screw with them for their own pleasure.

Greek, but still a rip-off of Star Trek.

speaking of star trek.....the director was a klingon (B'Elanna Torres) on voyager... 37. The Long Con (edit)

First aired: 2/8/2006

Writer: Steve Maeda, Leonard ****

Director: Roxann Dawson

Guest star: Richard Cavanna (Peter), Finn Armstrong (Arthur), Kim Dickens (Cassidy), Beth Broderick (Diane), Kevin Dunn (Gordy)

 

[Dash]

Ecuadorian

Tree Frog

wth

Ecuadorian Tree Frog

http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/studentw...up13/frogs.html

Epipedobates tricolor is one of the most poisonous frogs known to man, a single frog capable of knocking out a huge water buffalo. 20 Contact with the potent secretions on the skin of the frog produces muscle paralysis and cardiorespiratory depression, eventually leading to death

Oops.I like the idea of Jack withholding care to get back what he wants. When you get down to it, Jack has the ultimate power on the island.

If I can remember I am going to rewatch the scene where he catches the frog. I want to see the markings again because I thought it lokked like a green and black poison dart frog.

 

[Dash]

So what you guys are saying is the plane didn't crash - it was in effect hijacked by the roman gods themselves, who then dropped them on this island for fun (along with the other groups) to screw with them for their own pleasure.

Greek, but still a rip-off of Star Trek.

speaking of star trek.....the director was a klingon on voyager... 37. The Long Con (edit)

First aired: 2/8/2006

Writer: Steve Maeda, Leonard ****

Director: Roxann Dawson

Guest star: Richard Cavanna (Peter), Finn Armstrong (Arthur), Kim Dickens (Cassidy), Beth Broderick (Diane), Kevin Dunn (Gordy)

So your theory is "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon." Nice.

 

[bobspruill]

Sawyer was definitely affected by that frog...you could see him start to sway a bit as he was holding it.  I knew as soon as they showed that little bugger...YOU DO NOT TOUCH IT...lick it maybe...but definitely don't touch it!

Can't wait to see how it affects him in the next episode...wonder if Jack will withhold care in order to get some guns...

I said something to my wife to the same effect when I saw that scene.

My wife and I were talking about that, too. Not that they won't go this direction, but typically tree frogs with poisonous secretions are brightly colored as a warning--mother nature's version of truth in advertising. Sawyer's frog looked rather ordinary to me.

You must be watching in SD and not HD. The frog was bright green and black.

If there is such a thing as ULD, that's what I'm watching in.

 

[Jaysus]

Man I used to like this thread, but all these theories and speculation and fine-tooth-combing has my head ready to explode.

no kidding, the day after the show, when the post include recaps and "did you notice" type stuff is fun to read... but all the geeks being all geeky is too much.