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***OFFICIAL*** Minnesota Vikings 2016 Season Thread (1 Viewer)

Beo said:
Yeah Billings would have been perfect there. Cash and Killebrew at Safety and Josh Perry at LB also would have made sense. I don't understand this deal at all. 
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I am starting to think this draft is really weak and that is why they prefer picks next year.

 
You can never get enough CB's. And in Zimmer we trust. I liked what Mayock said about Spielman and Zimmer being on the same page. 

 
Vikings are knocking it out of the park in my opinion. Treadwell and Alexander were both steals. Plus, they got a haul for that 3rd rounder. 

 
Treadwell seems very low key in his press conference.  Glad that he managed to work with CC earlier during the Combine and Pro Days.  I think we nailed this one

Alexander impressed me in his press conference from the Combine.  Glad he's with us. lol

 
CanadianNFLJunkie said:
Treadwell seems very low key in his press conference.  Glad that he managed to work with CC earlier during the Combine and Pro Days.  I think we nailed this one

Alexander impressed me in his press conference from the Combine.  Glad he's with us. lol
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Alexander is going to need to learn to shut up as a rookie I'd imagine though. 

 
I was a little confused about the trade last night as well, but picking up a 3rd and 4th next year in addition to the 6th is a pretty good move.

The impression I get from that move is that the roster is looking pretty well set this year.  There is not going to be a lot of room for a high number of rookies to make the final roster.  Next year there are going to be more openings on the roster on both sides of the ball with this being Greenway and Newmans last year, Munnerlyn in the last year of his contract, Loadholdt with no guaranteed money, more than likely Patterson's last year unless he really shows something, etc.  Looks like the team is planning ahead with a few more holes to fill next year and getting the clout to do so and move around in the draft as Spielman likes to do.

 
Don't like the trade for future picks. I look at future picks as basically one round lower in terms of relevant value of current picks. So a 3 for a 4, conditional 5, and a 6? I'll take quality now over a crapshoot later. 

Edit to add I believe I read the condition for the 4th rounder next year is it is the lowest 4th rounder Miami has, which would probably be a compensatory pick as next year you can trade compensatory picks. This makes the trade even worse as now that pick is basically a 5th rounder, or really a 6th if you value them the way I do.

I do think we got two very interesting players in the first 2 rounds. Just wish we could have gotten another potential difference maker for this year in the third.

 
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Considering we don't have really a lot of holes on our roster for the upcoming year, we don't need 7 or 8 or 9 or Spielman's 10 picks in this draft.  All we would be doing is drafting a player or two for other teams to take from us, either after we cut them or from our practice squad.  Looking ahead, Newman, Greenway, Loadholt, Patterson, Robison and maybe 1-2 more will be gone, so we'll have some holes to fill, which we'd most likely get from the draft and not free agency.  Most of our cap $ will go to re-sign players like Harrison Smith, so to me, it was a good and smart move.

 
Would like to come out of this 4th Round with 1 of these 6 players: Andrew Billings, Miles Killebrew, Jeremy Cash, KJ Dillon, Joshua Perry, or Christian Westerman. 

 
cap'n grunge said:
Don't like the trade for future picks. I look at future picks as basically one round lower in terms of relevant value of current picks. So a 3 for a 4, conditional 5, and a 6? I'll take quality now over a crapshoot later. 

Edit to add I believe I read the condition for the 4th rounder next year is it is the lowest 4th rounder Miami has, which would probably be a compensatory pick as next year you can trade compensatory picks. This makes the trade even worse as now that pick is basically a 5th rounder, or really a 6th if you value them the way I do.

I do think we got two very interesting players in the first 2 rounds. Just wish we could have gotten another potential difference maker for this year in the third.
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Look at this way, hopefully they are picking in the lower third again next year.  The xtra 3rd and 4th give them ammo to move up in the first or second or back into the first (which Spielman loves to do because of the 5th year option) for a player they covet.

 
The Vikings traded the Dolphins pick 86 in the 2016 draft which according to this chart is worth 160 points using the JJ method and 6.2 using Chases method.

In return they get the Dolphins 3rd round pick in 2017 a conditional 4th round pick (could be after the 4th round comp pick) in 2017 and pick 186.

Pick 186 is worth 17 points on the JJ or 1.3 on CC.

The picks next year we do not know where they fall. However the 3rd round pick has pretty good odds of being higher than 23 unless you think Miami is about to make a deep playoff run.

Pick 80 would be the middle of the 3rd round. This is worth 190 points JJ or 6.7 CC. The end of the 4th round would be pick 128. There were about 9 comp picks after round 4 this year, however Miami might not be getting a comp pick and their 4th rounder would then be likely higher than 128 so the value of 128 seems like a medium of these 2 possible outcomes. The value of pick 128 is 44 points JJ or 3.7.

The totals for this deal are

Vikings 251 points JJ or 16.6 CC compared to 160 points and 6.2 

So the Vikings are winning this deal by 91 points or 10.4

Now we want to time discount the 2017 picks because picks today are worth more than picks next year. You suggest doing this by discounting the 3rd and 4th round picks by a round.

Pick 80+32 = pick 112 = 70 or 4.6

Pick 128+32 = pick 150 31.4 or 2.7

So the Vikings would give 160 or 6.2

for

118 or 8.6

This would be losing 42 points on the JJ but gaining 2.4 on the CC.

The other thing to consider, and basically what Rick Spielman said was they didn't think the players at pick 86 were significantly better than players they can get later on. If there were a player they valued high enough, he did say they had two picks in mind for 86 but that they can get similar players later on.

There are several indications from the draft so far that this is a WEAK draft class. So why not move a pick after the top talent is gone for talent in 2017 that has a good chance to be better than this?

 
I think i just got spoiled with the double dip of first round picks with the trade up into the bottom of the first. You can obviously do this alot easier when you have a poor record and draft higher in each round. The Vikings are on the rise and have to adjust their strategy accordingly.

 
The thing about the discount for the time value of money (draft capital) is that discount does get repaid once the picks reach maturity. So similar to a bond, this move is like parking draft capital in a savings account until it matures. The interest on the investment far outweighs the price once the discount for time is paid.

The Vikings like a lot of the players on their roster and did win the division last season. They may like players they already have more than these rookie prospects and the team is so deep adding a rookie means cutting someone else.

 
cap'n grunge said:
I think i just got spoiled with the double dip of first round picks with the trade up into the bottom of the first. You can obviously do this alot easier when you have a poor record and draft higher in each round. The Vikings are on the rise and have to adjust their strategy accordingly.
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When you have higher picks it becomes easier to get more value in trades and to get trades simply because your picks are more valuable.

I was trying to replicate some of Ricks trades and the last time the picks were this low he paid a 2nd 3rd and 4th to move up to pick 29 because the picks were late, that was what it took to move up. When the Vikings had high picks, they could make that move by only giving an extra 4th round pick.

 
Vikings hit the positions they need to address.  Interesting if they go guard, safety or another position next. 

 
NFL Network's live interview with Mo-Bo (Moritz Boehringer) and Mike Mayock was priceless. lol  An interesting pick taking the German WR..... he's a project for sure but he'll be a special teamer and the team's 5th WR

 
Treadwell

Diggs

Wright

Johnson

Patteron

Theilen

M0-Bo?

I see two guys needing to be cut for him to be WR 5.

To the practice squad after preseason most likely.

 
Can we get a backup QB from one of the other teams castoffs?  IRCC, Shaun Hill didn't perform all that well last season.  

 
Biabreakable said:
Treadwell

Diggs

Wright

Johnson

Patteron

Theilen

M0-Bo?

I see two guys needing to be cut for him to be WR 5.

To the practice squad after preseason most likely.
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Johnson could get cut unless he performs something like he did at the end of the 2014 season.  Theilen I think is gone, Patterson isn't going to get cut, but he'll be the #6 WR, making M-Bo #5, but he'll be at best, the team's gunner.  I'd expect Mo-Bo to be inactive for most of the early part of the season but if Treadwell, Diggs, Wright or Johnson go down from injury, it would be Mo-Bo and not Patterson who would be asked to play.

 
Top undrafted free agents are.........

Jeremy Cash - SS - Temple

Keyarris Garrett - WR - Tulsa

Jasn Fanaika - DE - Utah

Robby Annderson - WR - Temple

Ben Braunecker - TE - Harvard

James Cowser - DE - Southern Utah

Stephen Anderson - FB - Cal

Daniel Braverman - WR - Western Mich

Jonathan Jones - CB - Auburn

Devon Cajuste - WR - Stanford

Tom Hackett - P - Utah

Avery Young - T - Auburn

Jack Allen - C - Michigan St

Erik Striker - OLB - Okla

Roger Lewis - WR - Bowling Green

Any of these guys worthy of signing? Anyone else worthy not mentioned?

 
CanadianNFLJunkie said:
Johnson could get cut unless he performs something like he did at the end of the 2014 season.  Theilen I think is gone, Patterson isn't going to get cut, but he'll be the #6 WR, making M-Bo #5, but he'll be at best, the team's gunner.  I'd expect Mo-Bo to be inactive for most of the early part of the season but if Treadwell, Diggs, Wright or Johnson go down from injury, it would be Mo-Bo and not Patterson who would be asked to play.
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I bet MoBo is practice squaded. Thielen is too valuable to cut. Treadwell replaces Wallace. They carried 6 last year right?

 
CanadianNFLJunkie said:
Top undrafted free agents are.........

Jeremy Cash - SS - Temple

Keyarris Garrett - WR - Tulsa

Jasn Fanaika - DE - Utah

Robby Annderson - WR - Temple

Ben Braunecker - TE - Harvard

James Cowser - DE - Southern Utah

Stephen Anderson - FB - Cal

Daniel Braverman - WR - Western Mich

Jonathan Jones - CB - Auburn

Devon Cajuste - WR - Stanford

Tom Hackett - P - Utah

Avery Young - T - Auburn

Jack Allen - C - Michigan St

Erik Striker - OLB - Okla

Roger Lewis - WR - Bowling Green

Any of these guys worthy of signing? Anyone else worthy not mentioned?
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Braverman was drafted by the Bears

 
cap'n grunge said:
I bet MoBo is practice squaded. Thielen is too valuable to cut. Treadwell replaces Wallace. They carried 6 last year right?
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If he's cut and attempted to get added to practice squad, he'll get picked up by someone else, hence I think Vikings will red-shirt him assuming no injuries.  Thielen pretty much played late last year because Johnson fell off the earth as a WR, so one of these two is gone creating a spot for Mo-Bo.  Treadwell is in, Wallace is out.... therefore 6 WRs.

 
cap'n grunge said:
I bet MoBo is practice squaded. Thielen is too valuable to cut. Treadwell replaces Wallace. They carried 6 last year right?
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For a game or two they did. Zimmer expressed that he didn't like doing that because he would like to have another active player on defense.

The Vikings are carrying a lot of offensive linemen as well not all of whom can make the final roster. 

If they were to cut Charles Johnson as suggested above that would be giving up on one long term project for another just as replacing Patterson with "Mo-Bo" would be much the same.

I don't want the Vikings to keep drafting and adding projects if they are not dedicated to finishing them. Going from one project to another and only keeping them during the developmental years is a waste of time.

Remember Jake Reed? Another project who ended up panning out later on in his career. But fans are fickle and want to cut bait for the next shiny project instead.

 
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Different era back in the early 90's.  Vikes had the Carter bros at WR and Reed blossomed after Anthony left, plus we went from Robert Smith/Brad Johnson to Terry Allen/Warren Moon.  Today we still are going forward with Teddy and AP still and if anything Charles is at best, the #3 WR going into camp.  Mo-Bo would be cheaper to keep and perhaps we could trade Charles to a team that needs some WR help, such as Buffalo, Cincinnati or Carolina to name a few.

I'm very curious to see what we'll do at the offensive line.  Loadholt pretty much gone now??  Harris to be a camp cut?

 
Donnybrook said:
Can we get a backup QB from one of the other teams castoffs?  IRCC, Shaun Hill didn't perform all that well last season.  
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I hope we try to find something...I was hoping for them to draft one like the Raiders did. Only makes sense, unless they really like Heinicke - who looked ok in the pre-season...

It really is going to be difficult for any of the draftees outside of Treadwell and Alexander to make the roster...

 
Biabreakable said:
For a game or two they did. Zimmer expressed that he didn't like doing that because he would like to have another active player on defense.

The Vikings are carrying a lot of offensive linemen as well not all of whom can make the final roster. 

If they were to cut Charles Johnson as suggested above that would be giving up on one long term project for another just as replacing Patterson with "Mo-Bo" would be much the same.

I don't want the Vikings to keep drafting and adding projects if they are not dedicated to finishing them. Going from one project to another and only keeping them during the developmental years is a waste of time.

Remember Jake Reed? Another project who ended up panning out later on in his career. But fans are fickle and want to cut bait for the next shiny project instead.
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Patterson is a sunk cost. He has shown us nothing. What's worse is that he hasn't been willing to put in the necessary work to get better. It'd be different if he had shown any sort of improvement. At this point cut him loose and wish him the best with another team. Give his spot to someone who wants it more.

Charles Johnson should not be going anywhere.

 
Donnybrook said:
MacKensie Alexander on Sports Center.  I would have never suspected that such a brash young man (judging from his combine interview) would have come from such humble beginnings.  http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:15440672
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I've really enjoyed watching the reactions of the players and their families when they are drafted this year; namely Jaylon Smith and now Alexander.  I can't imagine the feeling of excitement and relief they must have.   

 
I really like Alexander. Just been learning about him over the past couple days. He seems very passionate about the game and being the best player he can be. He seems really smart and focused.

I also enjoyed the interview I watched with Mo Bo. This guy is a Vikings fan his favorite WR is Randy Moss. He seems so humble and relaxed. I can understand why the Coaches liked him.

 
T.J. Clemmings To Move To Left Tackle

I am hearing that Beavers may move to guard. He played some LT in college however, so he may still be an option at tackle down the road.

The Vikings have Shepherd and Bykowski at tackle as well fighting for a roster spot. The inside depth is excellent and the Vikings have quite a few more options at tackle this year than they had last when Clemmings was forced to start. Mike Harris has played some RT for us as too, not well but he can do that if needed.

It will be interesting to see who makes the final roster.

 
So what do you guys think, now is our weakest link?  I think we'll be okay at O-Line, especially with the addition of Sparano coaching them up.  I think we'll be okay at the WR/TE spot with the additions, so I turn to the D, secondary should be a strength, linebackers, we'll pretty much be in a dime D with only 2 linebackers playing so I wonder if the D-Line is our weakest link?  I was hoping we'd go after a DE type in the 3rd/4th round but we didn't.  I love Hunter and I thought he'd get a chance to start over Robison but I guess that's next year.  I also would have liked an upgrade at back-up QB so what's our weakest link?

 
DLR said:
Kicker and Punter.
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I thought the Vikings would bring in UDFA Hackett but it looks like he went to the Jets instead even though the Jets drafted a punter.

In the mock draft I was thinking to target him with pick 160. 

Pretty sure they are sticking with Blair Walsh at kicker but it would be good to see a punter push Locke.

 
I'd say our weaknesses (until proven otherwise) are:

1. Punter

2. Safety: Depth, uncertain FA in Griffin

3. OL: Injury recoveries for Loadholt/Sullivan, and unproven additions

4. QB: I'm not a TB hater by any stretch, but it remains TBD whether his was an OL/WR problem as suspected, and this is a high injury risk position. If the OL/WR improvements make a difference, injury to TB could derail a promising 2016 season completely. If OL/WR improvements do not improve TB, Vikings have no legitimate succession plan. I don't consider a project UDFA like Heinicke a succession plan for a Super Bowl caliber team. In a worst case scenario [catastrophic injury/regression] we're talking about 2017 becoming a grooming season for a QB who took no Viking snaps in 2016, which would be terrible for a team with other talent.

 
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