***Official MLB 2013 Season Thread (1 Viewer)

[scrumptrulescent]

Not sure why the count means it wasn't intentional. Pitchers do stuff like this because they're angry and/or hate the guy. Not because it's a good idea in the game. Seemed pretty blatant to me.

That makes zero sense. He threw him five pitches before "intentionally" plunking him? Why would he waste five pitches? You think he magically got mad or angry before the sixth pitch of an at-bat for some reason? Why would be do it with no outs in a one run game in the sixth? If he wanted to plunk he he could have done it with two outs and nobody on in the first.

So I post that I don't think it has anything to do with the game situation and you reply explaining why it was a bad game situation to hit someone. Ok.

I doubt there is anything magic about why he did it. I'm guessing Quentin has a pretty good idea based on his reaction.

It isn't worth debating though. You either think he threw at him or you don't. No big deal.

About 5% of what is debated on these boards is worthwhile. This isn't different. He threw high and tight, the bulk of major leaguers would not have been hit by that pitch.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not sure why the count means it wasn't intentional. Pitchers do stuff like this because they're angry and/or hate the guy. Not because it's a good idea in the game. Seemed pretty blatant to me.

That makes zero sense. He threw him five pitches before "intentionally" plunking him? Why would he waste five pitches? You think he magically got mad or angry before the sixth pitch of an at-bat for some reason? Why would be do it with no outs in a one run game in the sixth? If he wanted to plunk he he could have done it with two outs and nobody on in the first.

So I post that I don't think it has anything to do with the game situation and you reply explaining why it was a bad game situation to hit someone. Ok.

I doubt there is anything magic about why he did it. I'm guessing Quentin has a pretty good idea based on his reaction.

It isn't worth debating though. You either think he threw at him or you don't. No big deal.

It's universally known and accepted that pitchers who want to plunk a guy on purpose do it early in counts in situations where it does the least amount of damage to their team.

If you post something that goes against conventional wisdom and also makes zero sense (Why would he waste five pitches? Why would he do it with no outs in the 6th of a one run game, when he had a chance to plunk him with two outs and nobody on early?), it's reasonable to ask you for a little more explanation.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I doubt it was on purpose but given the two had a history, it may have seemed that way to Quentin. You don't think about the count in that situation of you are Quentin, you think about how Greinke went after your head in Chicago a few years back.

 

[pantagrapher]

Not sure why the count means it wasn't intentional. Pitchers do stuff like this because they're angry and/or hate the guy. Not because it's a good idea in the game. Seemed pretty blatant to me.

I'm gonna agree with you here. Maybe as the at-bat progressed, Grienke became increasingly annoyed with Quentin. He could have figured instead of giving in and throwing a strike, he'd get his money's worth and let Quentin trot to first. What's he afraid of, Yonder Alonso?

 

[sporthenry]

The other point beyond just count and situation is why else would Greinke do it? This tiff between Quentin and Grienke seems pretty one sided. It isn't like they seem to have had a lot of words in the past. And beyond that, when you hit a guy you want them to know you hit them or their team on purpose. You want their pitcher to know that if you throw at our guy, your guy is getting hit. If you showboat after a homer, your team gets hit. Unless Grienke is just trolling the #### out of Quentin, I'm not sure what he gains from this. And if Grienke is this diabolical, I'm going to give him credit for thinking this much.

 

[Annyong]

I doubt it was on purpose but given the two had a history, it may have seemed that way to Quentin. You don't think about the count in that situation of you are Quentin, you think about how Greinke went after your head in Chicago a few years back.

wasnt it like 4 years ago?

 

[scrumptrulescent]

I doubt it was on purpose but given the two had a history, it may have seemed that way to Quentin. You don't think about the count in that situation of you are Quentin, you think about how Greinke went after your head in Chicago a few years back.

.....and you think about how Greinke is a spindly weakling, and how this is a good time for him to show the world what he's got. Might as well, he plays for the Padres and has no hope for success.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Not sure why the count means it wasn't intentional. Pitchers do stuff like this because they're angry and/or hate the guy. Not because it's a good idea in the game. Seemed pretty blatant to me.

That makes zero sense. He threw him five pitches before "intentionally" plunking him? Why would he waste five pitches? You think he magically got mad or angry before the sixth pitch of an at-bat for some reason? Why would be do it with no outs in a one run game in the sixth? If he wanted to plunk he he could have done it with two outs and nobody on in the first.

So I post that I don't think it has anything to do with the game situation and you reply explaining why it was a bad game situation to hit someone. Ok.

I doubt there is anything magic about why he did it. I'm guessing Quentin has a pretty good idea based on his reaction.

It isn't worth debating though. You either think he threw at him or you don't. No big deal.

About 5% of what is debated on these boards is worthwhile. This isn't different. He threw high and tight, the bulk of major leaguers would not have been hit by that pitch.

Bull####. That ball tailed in and was a good foot off the plate. This isn't typical Q! lunging over the plate and getting hit. His foot is still a good 6 inches off of the inside line of the batter's box. That ball is hitting most mlb players. Add to that the fact that it's up around the shoulder, after Greinke's hit him a few times before and Kemp getting buzzed earlier. Game situation be damned, I'd be pissed too

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I doubt it was on purpose but given the two had a history, it may have seemed that way to Quentin. You don't think about the count in that situation of you are Quentin, you think about how Greinke went after your head in Chicago a few years back.

wasnt it like 4 years ago?

Is this a serious question?

 

[Eephus]

What would Jorge Soler do?

 

[Limp Ditka]

What would Jorge Soler do?

Think Marichal

 

[Grahamburn]

Any word on what Greinke said after he plunked him? Looked like he walked off the mound toward Carlos and said "What?!"

Quentin didn't come after him until that. I own Greinke, and I'm annoyed he broke his collar bone, but he was asking for it, imo.

 

[shuke]

Not sure why the count means it wasn't intentional. Pitchers do stuff like this because they're angry and/or hate the guy. Not because it's a good idea in the game. Seemed pretty blatant to me.

That makes zero sense. He threw him five pitches before "intentionally" plunking him? Why would he waste five pitches? You think he magically got mad or angry before the sixth pitch of an at-bat for some reason? Why would be do it with no outs in a one run game in the sixth? If he wanted to plunk he he could have done it with two outs and nobody on in the first.

So I post that I don't think it has anything to do with the game situation and you reply explaining why it was a bad game situation to hit someone. Ok.

I doubt there is anything magic about why he did it. I'm guessing Quentin has a pretty good idea based on his reaction.

It isn't worth debating though. You either think he threw at him or you don't. No big deal.

About 5% of what is debated on these boards is worthwhile. This isn't different. He threw high and tight, the bulk of major leaguers would not have been hit by that pitch.

Bull####. That ball tailed in and was a good foot off the plate. This isn't typical Q! lunging over the plate and getting hit. His foot is still a good 6 inches off of the inside line of the batter's box. That ball is hitting most mlb players. Add to that the fact that it's up around the shoulder, after Greinke's hit him a few times before and Kemp getting buzzed earlier. Game situation be damned, I'd be pissed too

Quentin is nowhere near the plate and did not lean into it.

 

[pollardsvision]

The other point beyond just count and situation is why else would Greinke do it? This tiff between Quentin and Grienke seems pretty one sided. It isn't like they seem to have had a lot of words in the past. And beyond that, when you hit a guy you want them to know you hit them or their team on purpose. You want their pitcher to know that if you throw at our guy, your guy is getting hit. If you showboat after a homer, your team gets hit. Unless Grienke is just trolling the #### out of Quentin, I'm not sure what he gains from this. And if Grienke is this diabolical, I'm going to give him credit for thinking this much.

This is why I don't have a huge problem with this.

In baseball, it's accepted and celebrated to risk physical harm to someone when your pride gets hurt and you don't like their attitude.

If a batter finds that having a ball hurled at his head to be the sort of attitude he doesn't appreciate in a pitcher and wants to work out that disagreement on the mound, so be it.

Baseball, wonderful as it is, is wrought with petty and dangerous unwritten rules as it is.

I doubt Greinke meant to, but I'm sure he's hit his fair share of batters on purpose. Nearly none of them have ever attempted to make him accept responsibility for that. Quentin did.

 

[whoknew]

Any word on what Greinke said after he plunked him? Looked like he walked off the mound toward Carlos and said "What?!"

Quentin didn't come after him until that. I own Greinke, and I'm annoyed he broke his collar bone, but he was asking for it, imo.

Asking for what? How was he asking for it?

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Not sure why the count means it wasn't intentional. Pitchers do stuff like this because they're angry and/or hate the guy. Not because it's a good idea in the game. Seemed pretty blatant to me.

That makes zero sense. He threw him five pitches before "intentionally" plunking him? Why would he waste five pitches? You think he magically got mad or angry before the sixth pitch of an at-bat for some reason? Why would be do it with no outs in a one run game in the sixth? If he wanted to plunk he he could have done it with two outs and nobody on in the first.

So I post that I don't think it has anything to do with the game situation and you reply explaining why it was a bad game situation to hit someone. Ok.

I doubt there is anything magic about why he did it. I'm guessing Quentin has a pretty good idea based on his reaction.

It isn't worth debating though. You either think he threw at him or you don't. No big deal.

About 5% of what is debated on these boards is worthwhile. This isn't different. He threw high and tight, the bulk of major leaguers would not have been hit by that pitch.

Bull####. That ball tailed in and was a good foot off the plate. This isn't typical Q! lunging over the plate and getting hit. His foot is still a good 6 inches off of the inside line of the batter's box. That ball is hitting most mlb players. Add to that the fact that it's up around the shoulder, after Greinke's hit him a few times before and Kemp getting buzzed earlier. Game situation be damned, I'd be pissed too

Come on. Yes the ball tailed but if you think that is a "good foot" off the plate than maybe we are looking at different videos. Maybe you're looking at one of the other times Greinke hit Quentin, or one of the other 100 or so times someone else hit Quentin.

As has been said many times before here, Quentin has got to be used to it by now. Unless he's as dumb as he looks I'm guessing he realizes why he gets hit so much more than other guys. He's asking for it.

 

[Grahamburn]

Any word on what Greinke said after he plunked him? Looked like he walked off the mound toward Carlos and said "What?!"

Quentin didn't come after him until that. I own Greinke, and I'm annoyed he broke his collar bone, but he was asking for it, imo.

Asking for what? How was he asking for it?

To have Quentin come after him. He plunked him, which may or may not have been intentional, but for Greinke to come off the mound like "what, #####?" after doing it...

 

[E-Z Glider]

Any word on what Greinke said after he plunked him? Looked like he walked off the mound toward Carlos and said "What?!"

Quentin didn't come after him until that. I own Greinke, and I'm annoyed he broke his collar bone, but he was asking for it, imo.

Not sure, but based on reaction and the interview with Q, I'd guess it was some sort of acknowledgement that he hit him intentionally (which I dont think is true) and/or a threat to do it again. Quentin even says that he would not have charged if it weren't for what was said. Honestly, I cant believe we dont have confirmation of the exact words by now.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Not sure why the count means it wasn't intentional. Pitchers do stuff like this because they're angry and/or hate the guy. Not because it's a good idea in the game. Seemed pretty blatant to me.

That makes zero sense. He threw him five pitches before "intentionally" plunking him? Why would he waste five pitches? You think he magically got mad or angry before the sixth pitch of an at-bat for some reason? Why would be do it with no outs in a one run game in the sixth? If he wanted to plunk he he could have done it with two outs and nobody on in the first.

So I post that I don't think it has anything to do with the game situation and you reply explaining why it was a bad game situation to hit someone. Ok.

I doubt there is anything magic about why he did it. I'm guessing Quentin has a pretty good idea based on his reaction.

It isn't worth debating though. You either think he threw at him or you don't. No big deal.

About 5% of what is debated on these boards is worthwhile. This isn't different. He threw high and tight, the bulk of major leaguers would not have been hit by that pitch.

Bull####. That ball tailed in and was a good foot off the plate. This isn't typical Q! lunging over the plate and getting hit. His foot is still a good 6 inches off of the inside line of the batter's box. That ball is hitting most mlb players. Add to that the fact that it's up around the shoulder, after Greinke's hit him a few times before and Kemp getting buzzed earlier. Game situation be damned, I'd be pissed too

Come on. Yes the ball tailed but if you think that is a "good foot" off the plate than maybe we are looking at different videos. Maybe you're looking at one of the other times Greinke hit Quentin, or one of the other 100 or so times someone else hit Quentin.

As has been said many times before here, Quentin has got to be used to it by now. Unless he's as dumb as he looks I'm guessing he realizes why he gets hit so much more than other guys. He's asking for it.

Batter's box is 6 inches off the plate and the pitch is well inside the chalk. It's a foot off the plate and still working away from it.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not sure why the count means it wasn't intentional. Pitchers do stuff like this because they're angry and/or hate the guy. Not because it's a good idea in the game. Seemed pretty blatant to me.

That makes zero sense. He threw him five pitches before "intentionally" plunking him? Why would he waste five pitches? You think he magically got mad or angry before the sixth pitch of an at-bat for some reason? Why would be do it with no outs in a one run game in the sixth? If he wanted to plunk he he could have done it with two outs and nobody on in the first.

So I post that I don't think it has anything to do with the game situation and you reply explaining why it was a bad game situation to hit someone. Ok.

I doubt there is anything magic about why he did it. I'm guessing Quentin has a pretty good idea based on his reaction.

It isn't worth debating though. You either think he threw at him or you don't. No big deal.

About 5% of what is debated on these boards is worthwhile. This isn't different. He threw high and tight, the bulk of major leaguers would not have been hit by that pitch.

Bull####. That ball tailed in and was a good foot off the plate. This isn't typical Q! lunging over the plate and getting hit. His foot is still a good 6 inches off of the inside line of the batter's box. That ball is hitting most mlb players. Add to that the fact that it's up around the shoulder, after Greinke's hit him a few times before and Kemp getting buzzed earlier. Game situation be damned, I'd be pissed too

Come on. Yes the ball tailed but if you think that is a "good foot" off the plate than maybe we are looking at different videos. Maybe you're looking at one of the other times Greinke hit Quentin, or one of the other 100 or so times someone else hit Quentin.

As has been said many times before here, Quentin has got to be used to it by now. Unless he's as dumb as he looks I'm guessing he realizes why he gets hit so much more than other guys. He's asking for it.

Batter's box is 6 inches off the plate and the pitch is well inside the chalk. It's a foot off the plate and still working away from it.

Greinke missed out there a bunch of times just yesterday alone.

Seriously, I don't know how anyone can possibly think that was intentional. Credit to Pantagrapher for at least knowing that if you think it was intentional, you at HAVE to come up with some plausible explanation as to why he'd do it at 3-2 with no outs in the 6th of a one run game. I don't agree with him, but at least he seemed to recognize that you need to bridge that logical gap.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Not sure why the count means it wasn't intentional. Pitchers do stuff like this because they're angry and/or hate the guy. Not because it's a good idea in the game. Seemed pretty blatant to me.

That makes zero sense. He threw him five pitches before "intentionally" plunking him? Why would he waste five pitches? You think he magically got mad or angry before the sixth pitch of an at-bat for some reason? Why would be do it with no outs in a one run game in the sixth? If he wanted to plunk he he could have done it with two outs and nobody on in the first.

So I post that I don't think it has anything to do with the game situation and you reply explaining why it was a bad game situation to hit someone. Ok.

I doubt there is anything magic about why he did it. I'm guessing Quentin has a pretty good idea based on his reaction.

It isn't worth debating though. You either think he threw at him or you don't. No big deal.

About 5% of what is debated on these boards is worthwhile. This isn't different. He threw high and tight, the bulk of major leaguers would not have been hit by that pitch.

Bull####. That ball tailed in and was a good foot off the plate. This isn't typical Q! lunging over the plate and getting hit. His foot is still a good 6 inches off of the inside line of the batter's box. That ball is hitting most mlb players. Add to that the fact that it's up around the shoulder, after Greinke's hit him a few times before and Kemp getting buzzed earlier. Game situation be damned, I'd be pissed too

Come on. Yes the ball tailed but if you think that is a "good foot" off the plate than maybe we are looking at different videos. Maybe you're looking at one of the other times Greinke hit Quentin, or one of the other 100 or so times someone else hit Quentin.

As has been said many times before here, Quentin has got to be used to it by now. Unless he's as dumb as he looks I'm guessing he realizes why he gets hit so much more than other guys. He's asking for it.

Batter's box is 6 inches off the plate and the pitch is well inside the chalk. It's a foot off the plate and still working away from it.

Greinke missed out there a bunch of times just yesterday alone.

Seriously, I don't know how anyone can possibly think that was intentional. Credit to Pantagrapher for at least knowing that if you think it was intentional, you at HAVE to come up with some plausible explanation as to why he'd do it at 3-2 with no outs in the 6th of a one run game. I don't agree with him, but at least he seemed to recognize that you need to bridge that logical gap.

Not against right handed batters he didn't.

And I'm not even saying it was intentional, but I am saying that Q! had a right to be pissed based on the things I mentioned above. Plus, I left out that he had already been hit in the series.

 

[Limp Ditka]

And pitchfx shows that pitch about 1.5' inside, so I guess scrump was watching a different video.

 

[RUSF18]

Red Sox sellout streak over, 794 games.

Yeah, was just going to come here to post this.

Pretty remarkable streak, imo. Longest in U.S. beating the Trailblazers by a good 40-50 games.

An NFL team would have to sell out for 100 years to beat this streak.

Baseball is a long grind, and selling out every game for 10 years is a great run. Even if Fenway is smaller than most parks - not every year has been great, and add in that the weather can be miserable for an outdoor game in Boston. Good run

Except it was a total PR fraud:

http://deadspin.com/red-soxs-sellout-streak-ends-472510787

>>It was kept alive by means both creative and benevolent. Standing room tickets counted in the total but not against the stadium's capacity; tickets donated to local charities, even if not used, went toward the attendance figure. The hundreds or thousands of tickets withering on the secondary market, going for less than the price of a beer, or perhaps not being re-sold at all, were allowed to

count.

Boston has great fans and is a great baseball town and Fenway is my favorite ballpark in the majors now that the Yankee Stadium I grew up with is gone...They shouldn't have needed to manipulate numbers for some stupid "streak"

I don't really see how that's manipulation, other than maybe if they gave seats to charity just to keep the streak alive. That's how attendance is always counted for sporting events- did you sell every seat you put up for sale. And obviously seats that go unsold on the secondary market are "allowed" to count. Someone bought the ticket. If you needed every single seat to be occupied to have a sellout there would have never been a sold out event in the history of sports.

The discussion moved on but just wanted to point out that this isn't necessarily true. It's pretty commonly known that many teams work directly with sites like Stubhub to get rid of unused tickets without needing to drop the face value prices on their own sites. That's why many times you see entire rows listed for sale and available - it's because they are completely unsold. Sometimes it's the teams working with SH, and sometimes the teams employ other brokers to act as the middle man, but they haven't actually sold all those seats first.

I know people who work for the Mets and Phillies - both clubs have these deals in place.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Red Sox sellout streak over, 794 games.

Yeah, was just going to come here to post this.

Pretty remarkable streak, imo. Longest in U.S. beating the Trailblazers by a good 40-50 games.

An NFL team would have to sell out for 100 years to beat this streak.

Baseball is a long grind, and selling out every game for 10 years is a great run. Even if Fenway is smaller than most parks - not every year has been great, and add in that the weather can be miserable for an outdoor game in Boston. Good run

Except it was a total PR fraud:

http://deadspin.com/red-soxs-sellout-streak-ends-472510787

<blockquote>

>>It was kept alive by means both creative and benevolent. Standing room tickets counted in the total but not against the stadium's capacity; tickets donated to local charities, even if not used, went toward the attendance figure. The hundreds or thousands of tickets withering on the secondary market, going for less than the price of a beer, or perhaps not being re-sold at all, were allowed to

count.

Boston has great fans and is a great baseball town and Fenway is my favorite ballpark in the majors now that the Yankee Stadium I grew up with is gone...They shouldn't have needed to manipulate numbers for some stupid "streak"

I don't really see how that's manipulation, other than maybe if they gave seats to charity just to keep the streak alive. That's how attendance is always counted for sporting events- did you sell every seat you put up for sale. And obviously seats that go unsold on the secondary market are "allowed" to count. Someone bought the ticket. If you needed every single seat to be occupied to have a sellout there would have never been a sold out event in the history of sports.

The discussion moved on but just wanted to point out that this isn't necessarily true. It's pretty commonly known that many teams work directly with sites like Stubhub to get rid of unused tickets without needing to drop the face value prices on their own sites. That's why many times you see entire rows listed for sale and available - it's because they are completely unsold. Sometimes it's the teams working with SH, and sometimes the teams employ other brokers to act as the middle man, but they haven't actually sold all those seats first.

I know people who work for the Mets and Phillies - both clubs have these deals in place.

Interesting stuff, thanks. But "secondary market" implies that the seats have already been purchased and the purchaser is trying to resell them. Otherwise it wouldn't be secondary.

My main point was that people seemed to think that just because there's lots of empty seats a game can't be a sellout. That's obviously not true. Happens all the time, especially where you have a huge season ticket holder base, as I assume the Red Sox do. Or at least did.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

And pitchfx shows that pitch about 1.5' inside, so I guess scrump was watching a different video.

Well if pitchfx says so, then I guess I'm busted in my web of lies.

 

[Limp Ditka]

And pitchfx shows that pitch about 1.5' inside, so I guess scrump was watching a different video.

Well if pitchfx says so, then I guess I'm busted in my web of lies.

You weren't lying. You were simply wrong. It happens.

 

[RUSF18]

Red Sox sellout streak over, 794 games.

Yeah, was just going to come here to post this.

Pretty remarkable streak, imo. Longest in U.S. beating the Trailblazers by a good 40-50 games.

An NFL team would have to sell out for 100 years to beat this streak.

Baseball is a long grind, and selling out every game for 10 years is a great run. Even if Fenway is smaller than most parks - not every year has been great, and add in that the weather can be miserable for an outdoor game in Boston. Good run

Except it was a total PR fraud:

http://deadspin.com/red-soxs-sellout-streak-ends-472510787

<blockquote>

>>It was kept alive by means both creative and benevolent. Standing room tickets counted in the total but not against the stadium's capacity; tickets donated to local charities, even if not used, went toward the attendance figure. The hundreds or thousands of tickets withering on the secondary market, going for less than the price of a beer, or perhaps not being re-sold at all, were allowed to

count.

Boston has great fans and is a great baseball town and Fenway is my favorite ballpark in the majors now that the Yankee Stadium I grew up with is gone...They shouldn't have needed to manipulate numbers for some stupid "streak"

I don't really see how that's manipulation, other than maybe if they gave seats to charity just to keep the streak alive. That's how attendance is always counted for sporting events- did you sell every seat you put up for sale. And obviously seats that go unsold on the secondary market are "allowed" to count. Someone bought the ticket. If you needed every single seat to be occupied to have a sellout there would have never been a sold out event in the history of sports.

The discussion moved on but just wanted to point out that this isn't necessarily true. It's pretty commonly known that many teams work directly with sites like Stubhub to get rid of unused tickets without needing to drop the face value prices on their own sites. That's why many times you see entire rows listed for sale and available - it's because they are completely unsold. Sometimes it's the teams working with SH, and sometimes the teams employ other brokers to act as the middle man, but they haven't actually sold all those seats first.

I know people who work for the Mets and Phillies - both clubs have these deals in place.

Interesting stuff, thanks. But "secondary market" implies that the seats have already been purchased and the purchaser is trying to resell them. Otherwise it wouldn't be secondary.

My main point was that people seemed to think that just because there's lots of empty seats a game can't be a sellout. That's obviously not true. Happens all the time, especially where you have a huge season ticket holder base, as I assume the Red Sox do. Or at least did.

Yeah I know what you mean about the implication as that is what you would normally consider the secondary market. I think at this point, with the site's popularity, the default measure of gauging how prices are looking on the secondary market is to go to Stubhub and I'm willing to bet that is what was being described in the quoted post. So people see 10,000 seats on there and think that 5,000 people are trying to get rid of the pairs they already bought, which isn't necessarily the case.

 

[sporthenry]

Red Sox sellout streak over, 794 games.

Yeah, was just going to come here to post this. Pretty remarkable streak, imo. Longest in U.S. beating the Trailblazers by a good 40-50 games.

An NFL team would have to sell out for 100 years to beat this streak.

Baseball is a long grind, and selling out every game for 10 years is a great run. Even if Fenway is smaller than most parks - not every year has been great, and add in that the weather can be miserable for an outdoor game in Boston. Good run

Except it was a total PR fraud:

http://deadspin.com/red-soxs-sellout-streak-ends-472510787

<

blockquote>

>>It was kept alive by means both creative and benevolent. Standing room tickets counted in the total but not against the stadium's capacity; tickets donated to local charities, even if not used, went toward the attendance figure. The hundreds or thousands of tickets withering on the secondary market, going for less than the price of a beer, or perhaps not being re-sold at all, were allowed tocount.

Boston has great fans and is a great baseball town and Fenway is my favorite ballpark in the majors now that the Yankee Stadium I grew up with is gone...They shouldn't have needed to manipulate numbers for some stupid "streak"

I don't really see how that's manipulation, other than maybe if they gave seats to charity just to keep the streak alive. That's how attendance is always counted for sporting events- did you sell every seat you put up for sale. And obviously seats that go unsold on the secondary market are "allowed" to count. Someone bought the ticket. If you needed every single seat to be occupied to have a sellout there would have never been a sold out event in the history of sports.

The discussion moved on but just wanted to point out that this isn't necessarily true. It's pretty commonly known that many teams work directly with sites like Stubhub to get rid of unused tickets without needing to drop the face value prices on their own sites. That's why many times you see entire rows listed for sale and available - it's because they are completely unsold. Sometimes it's the teams working with SH, and sometimes the teams employ other brokers to act as the middle man, but they haven't actually sold all those seats first.

I know people who work for the Mets and Phillies - both clubs have these deals in place.

Interesting stuff, thanks. But "secondary market" implies that the seats have already been purchased and the purchaser is trying to resell them. Otherwise it wouldn't be secondary.

My main point was that people seemed to think that just because there's lots of empty seats a game can't be a sellout. That's obviously not true. Happens all the time, especially where you have a huge season ticket holder base, as I assume the Red Sox do. Or at least did.

Yeah I know what you mean about the implication as that is what you would normally consider the secondary market. I think at this point, with the site's popularity, the default measure of gauging how prices are looking on the secondary market is to go to Stubhub and I'm willing to bet that is what was being described in the quoted post. So people see 10,000 seats on there and think that 5,000 people are trying to get rid of the pairs they already bought, which isn't necessarily the case.

Fair enough but I know like last year the Phillies sold out all of their single game tickets the first day they went on sale. Sure some if not most were speculators but I'm sure most on Stub Hub are probably secondary at least initially. As for the streak, if you look at it absolutely, sure there were some accounting gimmicks but if you look at it relatively, every team does this and still can't or won't get close so it is still an impressive streak.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not sure why the count means it wasn't intentional. Pitchers do stuff like this because they're angry and/or hate the guy. Not because it's a good idea in the game. Seemed pretty blatant to me.

That makes zero sense. He threw him five pitches before "intentionally" plunking him? Why would he waste five pitches? You think he magically got mad or angry before the sixth pitch of an at-bat for some reason? Why would be do it with no outs in a one run game in the sixth? If he wanted to plunk he he could have done it with two outs and nobody on in the first.

So I post that I don't think it has anything to do with the game situation and you reply explaining why it was a bad game situation to hit someone. Ok.

I doubt there is anything magic about why he did it. I'm guessing Quentin has a pretty good idea based on his reaction.

It isn't worth debating though. You either think he threw at him or you don't. No big deal.

About 5% of what is debated on these boards is worthwhile. This isn't different. He threw high and tight, the bulk of major leaguers would not have been hit by that pitch.

Bull####. That ball tailed in and was a good foot off the plate. This isn't typical Q! lunging over the plate and getting hit. His foot is still a good 6 inches off of the inside line of the batter's box. That ball is hitting most mlb players. Add to that the fact that it's up around the shoulder, after Greinke's hit him a few times before and Kemp getting buzzed earlier. Game situation be damned, I'd be pissed too

Come on. Yes the ball tailed but if you think that is a "good foot" off the plate than maybe we are looking at different videos. Maybe you're looking at one of the other times Greinke hit Quentin, or one of the other 100 or so times someone else hit Quentin.

As has been said many times before here, Quentin has got to be used to it by now. Unless he's as dumb as he looks I'm guessing he realizes why he gets hit so much more than other guys. He's asking for it.

Batter's box is 6 inches off the plate and the pitch is well inside the chalk. It's a foot off the plate and still working away from it.

Greinke missed out there a bunch of times just yesterday alone.

Seriously, I don't know how anyone can possibly think that was intentional. Credit to Pantagrapher for at least knowing that if you think it was intentional, you at HAVE to come up with some plausible explanation as to why he'd do it at 3-2 with no outs in the 6th of a one run game. I don't agree with him, but at least he seemed to recognize that you need to bridge that logical gap.

Not against right handed batters he didn't.

And I'm not even saying it was intentional, but I am saying that Q! had a right to be pissed based on the things I mentioned above. Plus, I left out that he had already been hit in the series.

Yeah he did. There's a graph that shows them as inside/outside. That was only the fourth-furthest inside pitch he threw in the game.

By the way it wasn't 1.5 feet inside. It was 1.5 feet from the center of the plate. It was maybe 7-8 inches off the inside edge.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Not sure why the count means it wasn't intentional. Pitchers do stuff like this because they're angry and/or hate the guy. Not because it's a good idea in the game. Seemed pretty blatant to me.

That makes zero sense. He threw him five pitches before "intentionally" plunking him? Why would he waste five pitches? You think he magically got mad or angry before the sixth pitch of an at-bat for some reason? Why would be do it with no outs in a one run game in the sixth? If he wanted to plunk he he could have done it with two outs and nobody on in the first.

So I post that I don't think it has anything to do with the game situation and you reply explaining why it was a bad game situation to hit someone. Ok.

I doubt there is anything magic about why he did it. I'm guessing Quentin has a pretty good idea based on his reaction.

It isn't worth debating though. You either think he threw at him or you don't. No big deal.

About 5% of what is debated on these boards is worthwhile. This isn't different. He threw high and tight, the bulk of major leaguers would not have been hit by that pitch.

Bull####. That ball tailed in and was a good foot off the plate. This isn't typical Q! lunging over the plate and getting hit. His foot is still a good 6 inches off of the inside line of the batter's box. That ball is hitting most mlb players. Add to that the fact that it's up around the shoulder, after Greinke's hit him a few times before and Kemp getting buzzed earlier. Game situation be damned, I'd be pissed too

Come on. Yes the ball tailed but if you think that is a "good foot" off the plate than maybe we are looking at different videos. Maybe you're looking at one of the other times Greinke hit Quentin, or one of the other 100 or so times someone else hit Quentin.

As has been said many times before here, Quentin has got to be used to it by now. Unless he's as dumb as he looks I'm guessing he realizes why he gets hit so much more than other guys. He's asking for it.

Batter's box is 6 inches off the plate and the pitch is well inside the chalk. It's a foot off the plate and still working away from it.

Greinke missed out there a bunch of times just yesterday alone.

Seriously, I don't know how anyone can possibly think that was intentional. Credit to Pantagrapher for at least knowing that if you think it was intentional, you at HAVE to come up with some plausible explanation as to why he'd do it at 3-2 with no outs in the 6th of a one run game. I don't agree with him, but at least he seemed to recognize that you need to bridge that logical gap.

Not against right handed batters he didn't.

And I'm not even saying it was intentional, but I am saying that Q! had a right to be pissed based on the things I mentioned above. Plus, I left out that he had already been hit in the series.

Yeah he did. There's a graph that shows them as inside/outside. That was only the fourth-furthest inside pitch he threw in the game.

By the way it wasn't 1.5 feet inside. It was 1.5 feet from the center of the plate. It was maybe 7-8 inches off the inside edge.

Change the plot to 'v RHH' and there are 4 pitches inside all game to RHH. Sorry, but 4 of 46 of his pitches to RHH being inside is not 'a bunch of times'

As for off center of the plate, thanks. I looked at it wrong.

 

[sporthenry]

The other point beyond just count and situation is why else would Greinke do it? This tiff between Quentin and Grienke seems pretty one sided. It isn't like they seem to have had a lot of words in the past. And beyond that, when you hit a guy you want them to know you hit them or their team on purpose. You want their pitcher to know that if you throw at our guy, your guy is getting hit. If you showboat after a homer, your team gets hit. Unless Grienke is just trolling the #### out of Quentin, I'm not sure what he gains from this. And if Grienke is this diabolical, I'm going to give him credit for thinking this much.

This is why I don't have a huge problem with this. In baseball, it's accepted and celebrated to risk physical harm to someone when your pride gets hurt and you don't like their attitude.If a batter finds that having a ball hurled at his head to be the sort of attitude he doesn't appreciate in a pitcher and wants to work out that disagreement on the mound, so be it. Baseball, wonderful as it is, is wrought with petty and dangerous unwritten rules as it is. I doubt Greinke meant to, but I'm sure he's hit his fair share of batters on purpose. Nearly none of them have ever attempted to make him accept responsibility for that. Quentin did.

Fair enough. But most guys usually let their pitchers take care of it by going after one of their hitters. Then add in the fact that Quentin gets hit more than anyone so I'm just not sure why this broke the camels back. I can completely understand if they throw at or near the head. No place for that but often times intentional beanings are in the back which is safer than getting one on the hands. I do think this will bring about some change since this was pretty much a linebacker tackling a kicker and baseball can't be having their 200 million dollar guys being knocked out on stupid ####.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Change the plot to 'v RHH' and there are 4 pitches inside all game to RHH. Sorry, but 4 of 46 of his pitches to RHH being inside is not 'a bunch of times'

As for off center of the plate, thanks. I looked at it wrong.

I guess it's just semantics. I see enough to suggest that it wasn't a huge outlier to the point that you'd think it was intentional. That's what I was saying.

 

[pollardsvision]

Any word on what Greinke said after he plunked him? Looked like he walked off the mound toward Carlos and said "What?!" Quentin didn't come after him until that. I own Greinke, and I'm annoyed he broke his collar bone, but he was asking for it, imo.

Asking for what? How was he asking for it?

To have Quentin come after him. He plunked him, which may or may not have been intentional, but for Greinke to come off the mound like "what, #####?" after doing it...

Yeah, I have no idea what Greinke said, but it certainly appeared he was interested in having a fight.Now, I assume he was more interested in appearing to be interested in having a fight than actually having a fight. Either way, Quentin obliged. I don't think the pitch or it's intent matter at all. It was simply 2 dudes that wanted to fight each other (or pretend they wanted to) and they did.

People seem to think Greinke's the victim, but he was willing participant in a fight that didn't end well for him. That's the risk.

No different than if I cut someone off in traffic and they are clearly enraged. In that moment, I can choose to escalate or not. By choosing to escalate (yell, flip the bird, whatever), any injury I incur in a fight (or worse)is my own damn fault.

 

[greedygoat]

Any word on what Greinke said after he plunked him? Looked like he walked off the mound toward Carlos and said "What?!"

Quentin didn't come after him until that. I own Greinke, and I'm annoyed he broke his collar bone, but he was asking for it, imo.

From the looks of it Quentin owned Greinke.

 

[Wooderson]

Cubs Win!! Fun last couple innings.

You won't see Romo do that very often.

 

[Billy Bats]

By watching Greinke's body language after he plunked him, he didn't seem defiant, I got a sense of an "ah damn" reaction. Then Quentin starts walking forward and Zach toughens up.

What is the normal suspension for charging the mound? Idiots on sports radio were saying it should be worse because Greinke was injured in the melee.

What a bunch of ####### too, I didn't see one punch thrown. Worst bench clearer ever.

 

[Frostillicus]

By watching Greinke's body language after he plunked him, he didn't seem defiant, I got a sense of an "ah damn" reaction. Then Quentin starts walking forward and Zach toughens up.

What is the normal suspension for charging the mound? Idiots on sports radio were saying it should be worse because Greinke was injured in the melee.

What a bunch of ####### too, I didn't see one punch thrown. Worst bench clearer ever.

Sorry there wasn't enough punching in your baseball.

 

[Billy Bats]

By watching Greinke's body language after he plunked him, he didn't seem defiant, I got a sense of an "ah damn" reaction. Then Quentin starts walking forward and Zach toughens up.

What is the normal suspension for charging the mound? Idiots on sports radio were saying it should be worse because Greinke was injured in the melee.

What a bunch of ####### too, I didn't see one punch thrown. Worst bench clearer ever.

Sorry there wasn't enough punching in your baseball.

Thanks Frosty, no need for apologies though.

 

[the moops]

Going to Twins/Mets tonight. Biked from work. There is 4 inches of snow on the ground, it is 30 degrees out, and it is currently snowing. Great night for baseball!!

This is dumb. But at least I am getting hammered at Fulton Brewery while I wait for friends.

 

[Eephus]

The Marlins lineup tonight with Stanton out of action is just pathetic.

 

[Brady Marino]

The Marlins lineup tonight with Stanton out of action is just pathetic.

When Justin Ruggiano is your cleanup hitter, you're either doing something wrong or you're in AAA.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Twins "ace" Vance Worley not having a good night.

 

[Billy Bats]

Has anyone checked Babe Buck's medicine cabinet lately?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Going to Twins/Mets tonight. Biked from work. There is 4 inches of snow on the ground, it is 30 degrees out, and it is currently snowing. Great night for baseball!!This is dumb. But at least I am getting hammered at Fulton Brewery while I wait for friends.

GOMOOPSGO!!!

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Overlooked in the "brawl" from last night is AJ Ellis's pathetic job of tackling Quentin from behind. Save that investment, you slug!

 

[sporthenry]

Overlooked in the "brawl" from last night is AJ Ellis's pathetic job of tackling Quentin from behind. Save that investment, you slug!

I was a big fan of Yonder Alonso trying to push Ellis. I'm not really sure how else to explain it but you can tell some of these guys haven't really been in fights before.

 

[Billy Bats]

Reyes carted off the field with an ankle injury.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

That POS Alonso is 7 for his last 14 and hit a bomb today.

 

[sporthenry]

Quentin gets 8 games. Olney pretty much said that 3-8 was the precedent set and the MLB didn't really have much wiggle room. I can guarantee that any appeal of a suspension will be heard by Monday. That should be a fun series next week.

 

[Michael Brown]

For those who missed it, the Yanks turned a 4-6-5-6-5-3-4 triple play tonight. Pretty awesome stuff, players' reactions were great.

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