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**2015 MLB Season Thread: This is how the chapter ends (1 Viewer)

To be fair, the Blue Jays averaged about 70% of stadium capacity and were 8th overall in attendance this season. That's pretty good for being in the largest media market, especially without having to share it with another MLB team.
I hope a Royals fan isn't getting chirpy about attendance.
I'm a Cardinals fan first, but since you brought it up... The Cardinals drew 3.52MM this year, 98.8% of capacity, second in turnstile count behind the Dodgers. The Royals drew 2.70MM this season, 88.2% of capacity and 10th overall. Considering the Royals have to share a state with the #2 drawing team in the league, not too bad to finish within 100K of the Blue Jays, who have a MUCH larger metro area and and entire country to themselves.
 
It's the 5th largest TV market, and the numbers say there is a audience for the product even when the team is so so (a 5 share two years ago proves that, a 5 in a U.S. market is top 10 by percentage). St Louis, Detroit, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Boston, SF are always good TV markets, KC pulled a crazy 13 share in their market this year which is great.

People don't understand what "small market means either." Tampa, Minnesota, and Cleveland are not small market teams. They are mid size, like Detroit and Seattle.

Large Market: NY, Chicago, Philadelphia, LA, Toronto, DC, SF, Boston

Medium: Atlanta, Detroit, Tampa, Seattle, Minnesota, Cleveland, Houston, Miami, Colorado

Small: Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Kansas City, San Diego, Baltimore, Oakland

Cincinnati might be able to be considered a medium market because of their draw regionally, they actually have a surprising presence in Indiana and elsewhere. Atlanta could be considered smaller than it's TV households because of the general indifference of that fan base to sports. The LA teams, Houston, and Phoenix are all weird fan bases who don't love their TVs, maybe because the weather is nice. Miami fans will show up if the team is REALLY good, but I'd say Arizona fans are much better in general.

But yeah if I'm a Jays fan and I compare the numbers to other cities, I'm asking why they aren't among the top ten salaried teams every single year.
GPJ will disagree but I don't know how you can say SF is large market and Oakland is small. They're the same media market . The Oaklands were among league leaders in attendance as recently as the early 90s. The stadium situation is unfortunate and both the city and club share the blame. The Giants were able to get their stadium built and have outmarketed the A's ever since. There's more potential revenue for Oakland than there is in Cincinnati or Milwaukee but the A's have to fight for it.
Please cut the ####.

The Giants played dirty pool, you and I both know this. From Marichal, to being crybabies/disingenuous about territorial rights after previous A's ownership weirdly tried to do a legitimately nice thing to keep the team in the area, to Bonds pretty openly cheating his way to two of the biggest baseball records of all time and one WS appearance, your "team" is built on a foundation of lies and garbage. How are the Brewers doing?

And I'm not really sure what blame the city shares for this. It's a once-middle class blue collar town that had a lot of its blue collar jobs up and move overseas a long time ago, while the other sides of the bay prospered from the tech boom. Oakland is ####### poor. They can't even get any public money together to offer the Raiders, which I suppose is a blessing in disguise, or some sort of weird self-preservation defense mechanism. And Wolff's tried to keep them in the area and into a viable stadium situation, but, well, we all know what happened there. But hey, Oakland's quickly becoming a soulless, gentrified tech-zombie town just like SF (Uber!), so maybe there will be spillover money! YES!

I don't really know how/what defines a media market technically, but the Giants and the A's clearly compete with each other as rival business entities, mostly for the dollars/attention of the Midwestern brogrammers who come here to work on their "killer app." A lot of people live in-between and around the three big metropolises, and the entire area's population is pretty close to LA or Chicago in terms of metro area.

 
Rose is a huge scumbag and apparently really ####ed Pedro Martinez in some way, at least according to him.

Did anyone else not hear that? I got some random twitter likes so I'm thinking I'm not crazy.
He apparently isn't a big fan of autographing betting slips, according to a buddy of mine. Pretty good shtick.

 
To be fair, the Blue Jays averaged about 70% of stadium capacity and were 8th overall in attendance this season. That's pretty good for being in the largest media market, especially without having to share it with another MLB team.
I hope a Royals fan isn't getting chirpy about attendance.
I'm a Cardinals fan first, but since you brought it up... The Cardinals drew 3.52MM this year, 98.8% of capacity, second in turnstile count behind the Dodgers. The Royals drew 2.70MM this season, 88.2% of capacity and 10th overall. Considering the Royals have to share a state with the #2 drawing team in the league, not too bad to finish within 100K of the Blue Jays, who have a MUCH larger metro area and and entire country to themselves.
How did the Royals do the 22 years prior? And I should have known you were a Cards fan....

 
Did Pedro Martinez just say: "Pete Rose that's one guy I don't like, he really ####ed me?"

????????????????????????????
I listened to it four times, he said it! :lmao:
I met Pete in Vegas and he seemed like a nice enough guy :shrug:
First time anyone ever said this IMHO.
Scum of the earth.
He once cut my dad off in traffic in a convertible and then flipped him the bird out the top. No shtick.

 
To be fair, the Blue Jays averaged about 70% of stadium capacity and were 8th overall in attendance this season. That's pretty good for being in the largest media market, especially without having to share it with another MLB team.
I hope a Royals fan isn't getting chirpy about attendance.
I'm a Cardinals fan first, but since you brought it up... The Cardinals drew 3.52MM this year, 98.8% of capacity, second in turnstile count behind the Dodgers. The Royals drew 2.70MM this season, 88.2% of capacity and 10th overall. Considering the Royals have to share a state with the #2 drawing team in the league, not too bad to finish within 100K of the Blue Jays, who have a MUCH larger metro area and and entire country to themselves.
How did the Royals do the 22 years prior? And I should have known you were a Cards fan....
if CFL defenses were allowed to move the goal posts as frequently as you have in this discussion, no CFL kicker would ever make a field goal.
 
It's the 5th largest TV market, and the numbers say there is a audience for the product even when the team is so so (a 5 share two years ago proves that, a 5 in a U.S. market is top 10 by percentage). St Louis, Detroit, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Boston, SF are always good TV markets, KC pulled a crazy 13 share in their market this year which is great.

People don't understand what "small market means either." Tampa, Minnesota, and Cleveland are not small market teams. They are mid size, like Detroit and Seattle.

Large Market: NY, Chicago, Philadelphia, LA, Toronto, DC, SF, Boston

Medium: Atlanta, Detroit, Tampa, Seattle, Minnesota, Cleveland, Houston, Miami, Colorado

Small: Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Kansas City, San Diego, Baltimore, Oakland

Cincinnati might be able to be considered a medium market because of their draw regionally, they actually have a surprising presence in Indiana and elsewhere. Atlanta could be considered smaller than it's TV households because of the general indifference of that fan base to sports. The LA teams, Houston, and Phoenix are all weird fan bases who don't love their TVs, maybe because the weather is nice. Miami fans will show up if the team is REALLY good, but I'd say Arizona fans are much better in general.

But yeah if I'm a Jays fan and I compare the numbers to other cities, I'm asking why they aren't among the top ten salaried teams every single year.
Cleveland is mid because they're able to claim Akron and Canton. Supposedly, the same will happen with Cincinnati claiming Dayton very soon.
 
Not going to piss in the Pirates thread because I know how it feels the next day, but I love the new format. The 1 game playoffs are so much more exciting than normal playoffs and did accomplish the goal of making winning the division worth a lot.

 
cheese said:
Not going to piss in the Pirates thread because I know how it feels the next day, but I love the new format. The 1 game playoffs are so much more exciting than normal playoffs and did accomplish the goal of making winning the division worth a lot.
Winning 98 games and drawing Arrieta for a one-shot chance at survival blows. Fun to watch or not. I feel for those guys.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Eephus said:
Doctor Detroit said:
It's the 5th largest TV market, and the numbers say there is a audience for the product even when the team is so so (a 5 share two years ago proves that, a 5 in a U.S. market is top 10 by percentage). St Louis, Detroit, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Boston, SF are always good TV markets, KC pulled a crazy 13 share in their market this year which is great.

People don't understand what "small market means either." Tampa, Minnesota, and Cleveland are not small market teams. They are mid size, like Detroit and Seattle.

Large Market: NY, Chicago, Philadelphia, LA, Toronto, DC, SF, Boston

Medium: Atlanta, Detroit, Tampa, Seattle, Minnesota, Cleveland, Houston, Miami, Colorado

Small: Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Kansas City, San Diego, Baltimore, Oakland

Cincinnati might be able to be considered a medium market because of their draw regionally, they actually have a surprising presence in Indiana and elsewhere. Atlanta could be considered smaller than it's TV households because of the general indifference of that fan base to sports. The LA teams, Houston, and Phoenix are all weird fan bases who don't love their TVs, maybe because the weather is nice. Miami fans will show up if the team is REALLY good, but I'd say Arizona fans are much better in general.

But yeah if I'm a Jays fan and I compare the numbers to other cities, I'm asking why they aren't among the top ten salaried teams every single year.
GPJ will disagree but I don't know how you can say SF is large market and Oakland is small. They're the same media market . The Oaklands were among league leaders in attendance as recently as the early 90s. The stadium situation is unfortunate and both the city and club share the blame. The Giants were able to get their stadium built and have outmarketed the A's ever since. There's more potential revenue for Oakland than there is in Cincinnati or Milwaukee but the A's have to fight for it.
Please cut the ####.

The Giants played dirty pool, you and I both know this. From Marichal, to being crybabies/disingenuous about territorial rights after previous A's ownership weirdly tried to do a legitimately nice thing to keep the team in the area, to Bonds pretty openly cheating his way to two of the biggest baseball records of all time and one WS appearance, your "team" is built on a foundation of lies and garbage. How are the Brewers doing?

And I'm not really sure what blame the city shares for this. It's a once-middle class blue collar town that had a lot of its blue collar jobs up and move overseas a long time ago, while the other sides of the bay prospered from the tech boom. Oakland is ####### poor. They can't even get any public money together to offer the Raiders, which I suppose is a blessing in disguise, or some sort of weird self-preservation defense mechanism. And Wolff's tried to keep them in the area and into a viable stadium situation, but, well, we all know what happened there. But hey, Oakland's quickly becoming a soulless, gentrified tech-zombie town just like SF (Uber!), so maybe there will be spillover money! YES!

I don't really know how/what defines a media market technically, but the Giants and the A's clearly compete with each other as rival business entities, mostly for the dollars/attention of the Midwestern brogrammers who come here to work on their "killer app." A lot of people live in-between and around the three big metropolises, and the entire area's population is pretty close to LA or Chicago in terms of metro area.
Well, I said you'd disagree :shrug:

 
cheese said:
Not going to piss in the Pirates thread because I know how it feels the next day, but I love the new format. The 1 game playoffs are so much more exciting than normal playoffs and did accomplish the goal of making winning the division worth a lot.
Winning 98 games and drawing Arrieta for a one-shot chance at survival blows. Fun to watch or not. I feel for those guys.
yea plus the winner of that game is pretty much guaranteed a spot in the NLCS given the competition

 
A couple of things about my apparel #s v market size:

- not every tv viewer is taking the next step of buying a tee/cap, or buying multiple

- retail network plays a part. CA has little. The Jays are a higher ranked team in sales on MLB.com, but there's a limit to that in apparel.

 
cheese said:
Not going to piss in the Pirates thread because I know how it feels the next day, but I love the new format. The 1 game playoffs are so much more exciting than normal playoffs and did accomplish the goal of making winning the division worth a lot.
Winning 98 games and drawing Arrieta for a one-shot chance at survival blows. Fun to watch or not. I feel for those guys.
Yeah, but stuff like this happens almost every year on one of our four major sports. I don't know why we continue to act like it's some terrible injustice. Four years ago the 97 win Cubs would have been left out of the playoffs entirely; this format is far better for many reasons. It's not perfect, but IMO it's by far the best one we've got across the four sports. This year was just a weird anomaly.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
Northern Voice said:
Bruce Dickinson said:
Northern Voice said:
Bruce Dickinson said:
To be fair, the Blue Jays averaged about 70% of stadium capacity and were 8th overall in attendance this season. That's pretty good for being in the largest media market, especially without having to share it with another MLB team.
I hope a Royals fan isn't getting chirpy about attendance.
I'm a Cardinals fan first, but since you brought it up... The Cardinals drew 3.52MM this year, 98.8% of capacity, second in turnstile count behind the Dodgers. The Royals drew 2.70MM this season, 88.2% of capacity and 10th overall. Considering the Royals have to share a state with the #2 drawing team in the league, not too bad to finish within 100K of the Blue Jays, who have a MUCH larger metro area and and entire country to themselves.
How did the Royals do the 22 years prior? And I should have known you were a Cards fan....
if CFL defenses were allowed to move the goal posts as frequently as you have in this discussion, no CFL kicker would ever make a field goal.
Whatever, good luck to all your various teams this round.

I'm going to a playoff game for the first time in 22 years today.

 
cheese said:
Not going to piss in the Pirates thread because I know how it feels the next day, but I love the new format. The 1 game playoffs are so much more exciting than normal playoffs and did accomplish the goal of making winning the division worth a lot.
Winning 98 games and drawing Arrieta for a one-shot chance at survival blows. Fun to watch or not. I feel for those guys.
Yeah, but stuff like this happens almost every year on one of our four major sports. I don't know why we continue to act like it's some terrible injustice. Four years ago the 97 win Cubs would have been left out of the playoffs entirely; this format is far better for many reasons. It's not perfect, but IMO it's by far the best one we've got across the four sports. This year was just a weird anomaly.
The 1909 Cubs were 104-49 and didn't make the post-season. Same thing with the 1993 Giants who won 103 games and missed out the year before the wild card began.

The current system is imperfect but so was every one that preceded it.

 
cheese said:
Not going to piss in the Pirates thread because I know how it feels the next day, but I love the new format. The 1 game playoffs are so much more exciting than normal playoffs and did accomplish the goal of making winning the division worth a lot.
Winning 98 games and drawing Arrieta for a one-shot chance at survival blows. Fun to watch or not. I feel for those guys.
Yeah, but stuff like this happens almost every year on one of our four major sports. I don't know why we continue to act like it's some terrible injustice. Four years ago the 97 win Cubs would have been left out of the playoffs entirely; this format is far better for many reasons. It's not perfect, but IMO it's by far the best one we've got across the four sports. This year was just a weird anomaly.
Yup it seems to happen in the NFL every year. 8-8 team wins division and some 10-6 team is screwed. I think the current format works but why can't they do a 3 game series rather than single elimination? With the current format, you basically just advance the team with the best pitcher. Last year, the Giants were able to set up their ace for the WC game while the Pirates were competing for the division and ended up having to throw out their # 3 starter. A 3 game WC series would be ideal IMO
 
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A couple of things about my apparel #s v market size:

- not every tv viewer is taking the next step of buying a tee/cap, or buying multiple

- retail network plays a part. CA has little. The Jays are a higher ranked team in sales on MLB.com, but there's a limit to that in apparel.
What does this mean about the Jays? What do they buy on mlb.com that isn't apparel? Is it the tv package? Because there is a reason one would want to fake being a Jays fan for the purpose of MLB.TV you realize?

 
cheese said:
Not going to piss in the Pirates thread because I know how it feels the next day, but I love the new format. The 1 game playoffs are so much more exciting than normal playoffs and did accomplish the goal of making winning the division worth a lot.
Winning 98 games and drawing Arrieta for a one-shot chance at survival blows. Fun to watch or not. I feel for those guys.
Yeah, but stuff like this happens almost every year on one of our four major sports. I don't know why we continue to act like it's some terrible injustice. Four years ago the 97 win Cubs would have been left out of the playoffs entirely; this format is far better for many reasons. It's not perfect, but IMO it's by far the best one we've got across the four sports. This year was just a weird anomaly.
Yup it seems to happen in the NFL every year. 8-8 team wins division and some 10-6 team is screwed. I think the current format works but why can't they do a 3 game series rather than single elimination? With the current format, you basically just advance the team with the best pitcher. Last year, the Giants were able to set up their ace for the WC game while the Pirates were competing for the division and ended up having to throw out their # 3 starter. A 3 game WC series would be ideal IMO
Scrapping the divisions, playing a balanced schedule and letting the top 4 teams in would be ideal. But it is too logical to happen.

 
A couple of things about my apparel #s v market size:

- not every tv viewer is taking the next step of buying a tee/cap, or buying multiple

- retail network plays a part. CA has little. The Jays are a higher ranked team in sales on MLB.com, but there's a limit to that in apparel.
What does this mean about the Jays? What do they buy on mlb.com that isn't apparel? Is it the tv package? Because there is a reason one would want to fake being a Jays fan for the purpose of MLB.TV you realize?
Typically licensed apparel sales on .com is < 10% of total apparel sales for a retailer or league. Total apparel is around 7%. It doesn't translate as well as hard goods. And can be an impulse buy in a store.

In KC, you can walk down the street and pass an Academy, Rally House, DSG, Lids, Kohls, JCP, TSA, Sears, Finish Line, Hibbett, Sams, Target, and Walmart...all of which carry Royals apparel. In CA...you have Lids and Champs...and a few locals...with doors only around Toronto.

So there is a much heavier reliance on a retail channel that struggles with apparel.

 
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A couple of things about my apparel #s v market size:

- not every tv viewer is taking the next step of buying a tee/cap, or buying multiple

- retail network plays a part. CA has little. The Jays are a higher ranked team in sales on MLB.com, but there's a limit to that in apparel.
What does this mean about the Jays? What do they buy on mlb.com that isn't apparel? Is it the tv package? Because there is a reason one would want to fake being a Jays fan for the purpose of MLB.TV you realize?
Typically licensed apparel sales on .com is < 10% of total apparel sales for a retailer or league. Total apparel is around 7%. It doesn't translate as well as hard goods. And can be an impulse buy in a store.In KC, you can walk down the street and pass an Academy, Rally House, DSG, Lids, Kohls, JCP, TSA, Sears, Finish Line, Hibbett, Sams, Target, and Walmart...all of which carry Royals apparel.
Yep. Even the grocery stores have cleared aisles to sell Royals gear. Hy-Vee has "Royals watch party" displays with Royals shirts and hats to go with Royals-themed party foods.

The Academy by my house was one of those that had the locker-room postseason shirts ready as soon as they clinched. Stayed open late and sold off racks of them.

 
A couple of things about my apparel #s v market size:

- not every tv viewer is taking the next step of buying a tee/cap, or buying multiple

- retail network plays a part. CA has little. The Jays are a higher ranked team in sales on MLB.com, but there's a limit to that in apparel.
What does this mean about the Jays? What do they buy on mlb.com that isn't apparel? Is it the tv package? Because there is a reason one would want to fake being a Jays fan for the purpose of MLB.TV you realize?
Typically licensed apparel sales on .com is < 10% of total apparel sales for a retailer or league. Total apparel is around 7%. It doesn't translate as well as hard goods. In KC, you can walk down the street and pass an Academy, Rally House, DSG, Lids, Kohls, JCP, TSA, Sears, Finish Line, Hibbett, Sams, Target, and Walmart...all of which carry Royals apparel.
The Academy by my house was one of those that had the locker-room postseason shirts ready as soon as they clinched. Stayed open late and sold off racks of them.
Rally House will do the same thing next round, across the street. KC is similar to a college town.

 
Talking heads today whining about the 1-game playoff format was maddening. It makes winning the division everything. Before the 1-game playoff the division races were meaningless. So a meaningless 162-game regular season or an exciting 1-game playoff? It's not close.

 
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Should be one big division, each team plays the other. 14 teams 10 times, then 22 interleague games.

Take the top 4 teams from each conference and have best of 11 series to hash it out.

And got God sake pick a rule for baseball and go with it. I chose nl rules because the games are faster.

 
Should be one big division, each team plays the other. 14 teams 10 times, then 22 interleague games.

Take the top 4 teams from each conference and have best of 11 series to hash it out.

And got God sake pick a rule for baseball and go with it. I chose nl rules because the games are faster.
And all the Kentucky Derby horses should be allowed to repeat, am I right?

 
Daywalker said:
Talking heads today whining about the 1-game playoff format was maddening. It makes winning the division everything. Before the 1-game playoff the division races were meaningless. So a meaningless 162-game regular season or an exciting 1-game playoff? It's not close.
This year's AL West race was actually less meaningful because of the 1-game playoff. The Astros let the division slip away and under the old rules they'd have been out. Instead they got the second wild-card and another chance.

Sometimes it will help, sometimes it will hurt but overall I don't think it significantly changes the importance of division races.

 
Not going to piss in the Pirates thread because I know how it feels the next day, but I love the new format. The 1 game playoffs are so much more exciting than normal playoffs and did accomplish the goal of making winning the division worth a lot.
Winning 98 games and drawing Arrieta for a one-shot chance at survival blows. Fun to watch or not. I feel for those guys.
Yeah, but stuff like this happens almost every year on one of our four major sports. I don't know why we continue to act like it's some terrible injustice. Four years ago the 97 win Cubs would have been left out of the playoffs entirely; this format is far better for many reasons. It's not perfect, but IMO it's by far the best one we've got across the four sports. This year was just a weird anomaly.
Yup it seems to happen in the NFL every year. 8-8 team wins division and some 10-6 team is screwed. I think the current format works but why can't they do a 3 game series rather than single elimination? With the current format, you basically just advance the team with the best pitcher. Last year, the Giants were able to set up their ace for the WC game while the Pirates were competing for the division and ended up having to throw out their # 3 starter. A 3 game WC series would be ideal IMO
Scrapping the divisions, playing a balanced schedule and letting the top 4 teams in would be ideal. But it is too logical to happen.
That would be a disaster. The travel demands would be out of control. And think about how much it would suck as a fan on a practical level. If you're a fan of one of the three AL West teams in the Pacific time zone, almost half of your team's weekday games would start at 4 or 5 PM. In the NL all five West teams are in the Pacific zone, so now you've got the bulk of the league dealing with 20+ games a year that don't even start until 10 PM local time (even later in SF because those dooshbags start at 7:30 local time). That would also damage the sport's cash cow, the RSN deals, because ratings would plummet.

There's also the loss of division rivalries like other people said. That would suck too.

 
Should be one big division, each team plays the other. 14 teams 10 times, then 22 interleague games.

Take the top 4 teams from each conference and have best of 11 series to hash it out.

And got God sake pick a rule for baseball and go with it. I chose nl rules because the games are faster.
And all the Kentucky Derby horses should be allowed to repeat, am I right?
The winner should be allowed to defend their title. I'd be ok with the idea of any win, place, show horse competing the next season. 3 carry over horses, 17 newbies

 
Daywalker said:
Talking heads today whining about the 1-game playoff format was maddening. It makes winning the division everything. Before the 1-game playoff the division races were meaningless. So a meaningless 162-game regular season or an exciting 1-game playoff? It's not close.
This year's AL West race was actually less meaningful because of the 1-game playoff. The Astros let the division slip away and under the old rules they'd have been out. Instead they got the second wild-card and another chance.

Sometimes it will help, sometimes it will hurt but overall I don't think it significantly changes the importance of division races.
Astros were still desperate to win the division which was not the case with the Yanks/Sox before the 1-game playoff for WC.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Northern Voice said:
Doctor Detroit said:
Rose is a huge scumbag and apparently really ####ed Pedro Martinez in some way, at least according to him.

Did anyone else not hear that? I got some random twitter likes so I'm thinking I'm not crazy.
Follow up on this:Pete Rose himself liked my tweet, lol
I don't see where @peterose_14 favourited it, but it does appear you favourited your own tweet?
Favourited?
Former Montreal Expo Pete Rose approves of this spelling...well, at least a really big fan of former Montreal Expo Pete Rose did.

 
Wow -

MLB Communications @MLB_PR

LAD INF Utley has been suspended for Games 3 & 4 of NLDS as a result of his illegal slide in the 7th inning on Sat.

--

So a slide that warrants a 2 game suspension results in no consequence during the game. They even called him safe when he didn't even touch the bag.

I would be furious if I were a Mets fan.

 
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