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***Official MLB 2013 Season Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eephus
- Start date
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Braves are pretty much the home team of NC. Please don't lump us in with Falcons fans.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Would Brian Wilson be the first player to win a World Series with the Dodgers and Giants franchises? If it has happened before, it would have to have been a player who played for the '54 NYG and then either the '55, '59, '63 or '65 Dodgers.
Eephus, little help?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Series_champions
Eephus, little help?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Series_champions
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Michael Brown
Footballguy
Can you name all the players who have won a World Series with both the Dodgers and Giants?
(I figured if I framed it as a trivia question, you'd nail it)
Eephus
Footballguy
My first thought was Sal Maglie but I looked it up. He was on the 54 Giants champs, the 56 Dodgers who lost to the Yankees and the 57 and 58 Yankees who split with Milwaukee. In between that he pitched for Cleveland in 1955.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The Dodgers have two more chances to fail.
ETA: Dusty Baker came within six outs as manager
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shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
I now hate this team more than any other in sports.Hilts said:
what a bunch of tools
the moops
Footballguy
I may trade Gattis in our fake baseball league just because of this. LosersI now hate this team more than any other in sports.Hilts said:
what a bunch of tools
collective
Footballguy
I doubt that they will lose any sleep over this.I now hate this team more than any other in sports.Hilts said:
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I remembered Bill Dahlen as playing for both, from when he came up in the HOF discussions last year. It looks like he only won NL title while in Brooklyn because before the World Series though.Eephus said:
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Happy Bartman Day
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
A good buddy of mine is a huge Cubs fan and we watched the NFL games then this one when we were stationed in Germany (must have been a Sunday night). The last thing I said that night was, "oops" and then I quietly watched the Marlins end them. I slipped out after the inning, never have mentioned that incident since.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
I was working a graveyard and was listening to it on the radio as I was driving into work. As soon as I heard it, I said to myself 'it's happening'
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
RIP Wally Bell, one of the best umpires in the game.
Dickie Dunn
Footballguy
Pretty sure it was a Tuesday night. I remember watching this before flying to New York the next morning for Games 6 and 7 of the ALCS (yes, Aaron Boone and Bartman happened two days apart).
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Cuban first baseman Jose Abreu has come to terms with the Chicago White Sox on a six-year, $68 million contract that is the richest deal ever signed, pending a physical, by an international free agent, besting the six-year, $56 million contract the Rangers gave Yu Darvish in January 2012. Abreu, who will turn 27 at the end of January, is a big-bodied (6-foot-2, 250-plus pounds) first baseman whose only asset is his righthanded bat, but his talent at the plate has earned him the sobriquet “The Cuban Barry Bonds,” with some suggesting that he is one of the best hitters in any country in any league.
Abreu defected in August, established residency in Haiti and was cleared to sign with any major league team in late September. He hit .382/.535/.735 with 13 homers in 42 games in his final season in Cuba’s Serie Nacional, the island’s top league. That season was interrupted by his participation in this year’s World Baseball Classic, during which he hit .360/.385/.760 with three home runs. Abreu’s signature performance, however, came in the 2010-2011 season (Serie Nacional is a winter league). That season, he hit an outrageous .453/.597/.986 with 33 home runs in 293 plate appearances, a performance that former Baseball Prospectus statistician Clay Davenport calculated would have translated to a .380/.493/.806 line in the major leagues and a 70-plus homer pace over a full season (thus the nickname).
Abreu won’t put up those kinds of numbers for the White Sox. Indeed, you can find plenty of scouts who have doubts about his ability to hit major league pitching. However, you can also find plenty who think that Abreu will be an immediate star in the major leagues. Given the recent success of his countrymen Yoenis Cespedes, Yasiel Puig, Kendrys Morales, Yunel Escobar, Jose Iglesias and fellow White Sox Alexei Ramirez and Dayan Viciedo (not to mention Aroldis Chapman, who gives us an idea of the quality of the pitching in Cuba), all of whom came to the majors as younger and less-accomplished players, I find the latter easier to believe.
An extensive (and effusive) look at Abreu by Grantland’s Jonah Keri in February 2012 put Abreu’s ceiling at “Miguel Cabrera” (effectively: the best hitter in baseball) and his more likely major league level at Ryan Howard, who, at the age Abreu is now, hit .268/.392/.582 with 47 home runs. Indeed, the one thing the scouts are nearly unanimous about with regard to Abreu is his power, which is widely described as elite. With Abreu playing 81 games in hitter-friendly U.S. Cellular Field, 30 home runs seems like a lock. The question is how much average and how many walks (and hit-by-pitches, a significant aspect of his on-base percentage in Cuba) will accompany those home runs. Given that, his worst-case scenario might be Pedro Alvarez, who led the National League with 36 home runs this year, but with a .233 average and .296 OBP.
The White Sox could certainly do worse, and if Abreu comes anywhere close to those projections, $11.3 million a year for a middle-of-the-order bat in his age-27 to -32 seasons could look like a bargain, particularly for a team that is desperate for offense. As I wrote in our “Wait ‘Til Next Year” series, Chicago’s offense was the source of all its misery in its just-completed last-place campaign. With the major league free agent pool thinning out due to the new trend toward contract extensions, and few if any expendable trade chits in the system, the White Sox needed to get creative. Incumbent firstbaseman Paul Konerko, coming off a .244/.313/.355 performance, takes $13.5 million off the books this winter as a free-agent and designated hitter Adam Dunn will remove an additional $15 million from the team’s payroll after the 2014 season. Their possible or certain departures and the resulting money saved means Abreu couldn’t be a better fit.
Abreu and 22-year-old rightfielder Avisail Garcia, who hit .304/.327/.447 in 168 plate appearances after coming over from the Tigers in the three-way deal that sent Jake Peavy to Boston, give the White Sox hope that their emerging young rotation, led by lefties Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, and Hector Santiago might actually get some run support in 2014. To have acquired those two pieces before most teams have even lit the hot stove is impressive work by Rick Hahn, who was promoted to general manager a little less than a year ago. With Chicago coming off a 99-loss season in which they were outscored by every team except the Marlins, Abreu’s contract comes with little risk despite its record-breaking value.
Abreu defected in August, established residency in Haiti and was cleared to sign with any major league team in late September. He hit .382/.535/.735 with 13 homers in 42 games in his final season in Cuba’s Serie Nacional, the island’s top league. That season was interrupted by his participation in this year’s World Baseball Classic, during which he hit .360/.385/.760 with three home runs. Abreu’s signature performance, however, came in the 2010-2011 season (Serie Nacional is a winter league). That season, he hit an outrageous .453/.597/.986 with 33 home runs in 293 plate appearances, a performance that former Baseball Prospectus statistician Clay Davenport calculated would have translated to a .380/.493/.806 line in the major leagues and a 70-plus homer pace over a full season (thus the nickname).
Abreu won’t put up those kinds of numbers for the White Sox. Indeed, you can find plenty of scouts who have doubts about his ability to hit major league pitching. However, you can also find plenty who think that Abreu will be an immediate star in the major leagues. Given the recent success of his countrymen Yoenis Cespedes, Yasiel Puig, Kendrys Morales, Yunel Escobar, Jose Iglesias and fellow White Sox Alexei Ramirez and Dayan Viciedo (not to mention Aroldis Chapman, who gives us an idea of the quality of the pitching in Cuba), all of whom came to the majors as younger and less-accomplished players, I find the latter easier to believe.
An extensive (and effusive) look at Abreu by Grantland’s Jonah Keri in February 2012 put Abreu’s ceiling at “Miguel Cabrera” (effectively: the best hitter in baseball) and his more likely major league level at Ryan Howard, who, at the age Abreu is now, hit .268/.392/.582 with 47 home runs. Indeed, the one thing the scouts are nearly unanimous about with regard to Abreu is his power, which is widely described as elite. With Abreu playing 81 games in hitter-friendly U.S. Cellular Field, 30 home runs seems like a lock. The question is how much average and how many walks (and hit-by-pitches, a significant aspect of his on-base percentage in Cuba) will accompany those home runs. Given that, his worst-case scenario might be Pedro Alvarez, who led the National League with 36 home runs this year, but with a .233 average and .296 OBP.
The White Sox could certainly do worse, and if Abreu comes anywhere close to those projections, $11.3 million a year for a middle-of-the-order bat in his age-27 to -32 seasons could look like a bargain, particularly for a team that is desperate for offense. As I wrote in our “Wait ‘Til Next Year” series, Chicago’s offense was the source of all its misery in its just-completed last-place campaign. With the major league free agent pool thinning out due to the new trend toward contract extensions, and few if any expendable trade chits in the system, the White Sox needed to get creative. Incumbent firstbaseman Paul Konerko, coming off a .244/.313/.355 performance, takes $13.5 million off the books this winter as a free-agent and designated hitter Adam Dunn will remove an additional $15 million from the team’s payroll after the 2014 season. Their possible or certain departures and the resulting money saved means Abreu couldn’t be a better fit.
Abreu and 22-year-old rightfielder Avisail Garcia, who hit .304/.327/.447 in 168 plate appearances after coming over from the Tigers in the three-way deal that sent Jake Peavy to Boston, give the White Sox hope that their emerging young rotation, led by lefties Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, and Hector Santiago might actually get some run support in 2014. To have acquired those two pieces before most teams have even lit the hot stove is impressive work by Rick Hahn, who was promoted to general manager a little less than a year ago. With Chicago coming off a 99-loss season in which they were outscored by every team except the Marlins, Abreu’s contract comes with little risk despite its record-breaking value.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Ban on plate collisions seen as likelyhttp://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9847962/ban-mlb-plate-collisions-likely-team-officials-say
Don Quixote
Footballguy
There a hot stove thread yet?
...Lincecum - 2 years, $35 million.
...Lincecum - 2 years, $35 million.
shadyridr
Footballguy
the giants mustve got into lincy's stash. Thats a horrendous contractThere a hot stove thread yet?
...Lincecum - 2 years, $35 million.
Eephus
Footballguy
I'm still in Sabean honeymoon mode for another week and a half.the giants mustve got into lincy's stash. Thats a horrendous contractThere a hot stove thread yet?
...Lincecum - 2 years, $35 million.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Sabean knows he can sign other team's players too, right?
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Holy crap! At least he didn't get a raise.There a hot stove thread yet?
...Lincecum - 2 years, $35 million.
Eephus
Footballguy
With the resigning of Cain, Posey, Pence and Lincecum, Sabean has cast his lot with the guys with the rings. Tying up $17.5M for Timmy makes it less likely that Giants will bring back Juan Uribe or Aaron Rowand. So there's that.
I guess somebody has to defend the deal to keep the thread going. I might as well do it because I've sworn not to rip Sabean and I really enjoy watching Timmy pitch. Did I mention he threw a no hitter this year?
The salary is obviously out of line with his recent performance but the duration is pretty good. I generally think short overpays are better than long, market-rate deals. I'd rather have this deal than 4/$45 for someone like Ubaldo Jimenez. The Giants' top pitching prospects aren't due until 2015 so this deal fills the gap until then.
Lincecum never misses a turn and is usually good for six innings (albeit mediocre ones). I suppose his upside at this point is a #3 starter. He's like Jeremy Guthrie at almost twice the price but guys like Guthrie have more value to a staff than just their stats.
RnR
Footballguy
I think so, yes. Someone would have paid him that based on reputation and for the chance that he bounces back to his previous levels. Plus, he's the kind of guy that puts butts in seats at home games.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Not really coming in on either side other than to say that just like the NFL, the lawyers have won. Everything they do or don't do ends up as part of the bottom line when the lawsuits start rolling in.i like it[icon] said:i really so no good reason for it. A guy coming full speed ramming into someone standing still is just asking for trouble.
Eephus
Footballguy
I don't think it fundamentally changes the game. A slide and tag at home is just as good as a collision.Not really coming in on either side other than to say that just like the NFL, the lawyers have won. Everything they do or don't do ends up as part of the bottom line when the lawsuits start rolling in.i like it[icon] said:
Catcher is the most dangerous position on the field. There's not much that can be done about foul tips but if it's possible to prevent a stationary catcher getting blind-sided by a baserunner at full tilt, I'm not opposed.
[icon]
Insoxicated
You ladies want to start giving out suspensions for a fastball to the ribcage by a pitcher too? 
Sorry but Collisions are an awesome part of the game. We have a few a year where someone gets hurt... but what about runners going in hard to break up double plays? Baseball is a relatively safe sport overall... let's not turn it into checkers.
Sorry but Collisions are an awesome part of the game. We have a few a year where someone gets hurt... but what about runners going in hard to break up double plays? Baseball is a relatively safe sport overall... let's not turn it into checkers.
Lydia
Footballguy
Doesn't seem much different than the neighborhood rule at second.i like it[icon] said:
Lydia
Footballguy
They have an unofficial rule to prevent that, too. Stephen Drew is a fair ways from second on this play from the ALCS.You ladies want to start giving out suspensions for a fastball to the ribcage by a pitcher too?
Sorry but Collisions are an awesome part of the game. We have a few a year where someone gets hurt... but what about runners going in hard to break up double plays? Baseball is a relatively safe sport overall... let's not turn it into checkers.
[icon]
Insoxicated
Neighborhood rule doesn't stop guys from sliding in hard to break up the DP unless I'm missing something. Haven't read the actual text of the rule though. Is there anything that says you can't make hard contact with the fielder?They have an unofficial rule to prevent that, too. Stephen Drew is a fair ways from second on this play from the ALCS.You ladies want to start giving out suspensions for a fastball to the ribcage by a pitcher too?
Sorry but Collisions are an awesome part of the game. We have a few a year where someone gets hurt... but what about runners going in hard to break up double plays? Baseball is a relatively safe sport overall... let's not turn it into checkers.
I can't believe I'm having to argue in favor of home plate collisions here.. did I end up on curly board by mistake
Lydia
Footballguy
Neighborhood rule isn't in the rules at all. It's something that umpires enforce, but by the book they're not supposed to.Neighborhood rule doesn't stop guys from sliding in hard to break up the DP unless I'm missing something. Haven't read the actual text of the rule though. Is there anything that says you can't make hard contact with the fielder?They have an unofficial rule to prevent that, too. Stephen Drew is a fair ways from second on this play from the ALCS.You ladies want to start giving out suspensions for a fastball to the ribcage by a pitcher too?
Sorry but Collisions are an awesome part of the game. We have a few a year where someone gets hurt... but what about runners going in hard to break up double plays? Baseball is a relatively safe sport overall... let's not turn it into checkers.
It doesn't stop runners from coming in hard, no. But it does allow the 2B/SS to be a good couple of feet out of the way when making the throw. And I'm not sure how much baseball is improved by having catchers tackled at the plate.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
That makes one of us. Jimenez for $10mm more for two more years? I'd take that in a heartbeat. Even if he dies in Year 4, you're still paying less for the better pitcher, IMO.
He also got a full no-trade clause.
[icon]
Insoxicated
Sorry I was being tongue in cheek about the "text of the rule" bit but it was poorly worded by me.Neighborhood rule isn't in the rules at all. It's something that umpires enforce, but by the book they're not supposed to.Neighborhood rule doesn't stop guys from sliding in hard to break up the DP unless I'm missing something. Haven't read the actual text of the rule though. Is there anything that says you can't make hard contact with the fielder?They have an unofficial rule to prevent that, too. Stephen Drew is a fair ways from second on this play from the ALCS.You ladies want to start giving out suspensions for a fastball to the ribcage by a pitcher too?
Sorry but Collisions are an awesome part of the game. We have a few a year where someone gets hurt... but what about runners going in hard to break up double plays? Baseball is a relatively safe sport overall... let's not turn it into checkers.
It doesn't stop runners from coming in hard, no. But it does allow the 2B/SS to be a good couple of feet out of the way when making the throw. And I'm not sure how much baseball is improved by having catchers tackled at the plate.
The bottom line baseball, while a grind, is not a tremendously physical game. The home plate collisions are RARELY significant... We've got about 2400 games a year. There are, what, a handful of major home plate collisions?
When it happens its a highlight of the game IMO and something fans really enjoy. The actual occurrence of injury is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. You say it doesn't add anything to the game, I disagree, respectfully.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Whats more miniscule? The actual occurence of injury or saving 1 run in a 162 game season?Sorry I was being tongue in cheek about the "text of the rule" bit but it was poorly worded by me.Neighborhood rule isn't in the rules at all. It's something that umpires enforce, but by the book they're not supposed to.Neighborhood rule doesn't stop guys from sliding in hard to break up the DP unless I'm missing something. Haven't read the actual text of the rule though. Is there anything that says you can't make hard contact with the fielder?They have an unofficial rule to prevent that, too. Stephen Drew is a fair ways from second on this play from the ALCS.You ladies want to start giving out suspensions for a fastball to the ribcage by a pitcher too?
Sorry but Collisions are an awesome part of the game. We have a few a year where someone gets hurt... but what about runners going in hard to break up double plays? Baseball is a relatively safe sport overall... let's not turn it into checkers.
It doesn't stop runners from coming in hard, no. But it does allow the 2B/SS to be a good couple of feet out of the way when making the throw. And I'm not sure how much baseball is improved by having catchers tackled at the plate.
The bottom line baseball, while a grind, is not a tremendously physical game. The home plate collisions are RARELY significant... We've got about 2400 games a year. There are, what, a handful of major home plate collisions?
When it happens its a highlight of the game IMO and something fans really enjoy. The actual occurrence of injury is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. You say it doesn't add anything to the game, I disagree, respectfully.
[icon]
Insoxicated
And you guys wonder why ratings for the game are plummeting...Whats more miniscule? The actual occurence of injury or saving 1 run in a 162 game season?Sorry I was being tongue in cheek about the "text of the rule" bit but it was poorly worded by me.Neighborhood rule isn't in the rules at all. It's something that umpires enforce, but by the book they're not supposed to.Neighborhood rule doesn't stop guys from sliding in hard to break up the DP unless I'm missing something. Haven't read the actual text of the rule though. Is there anything that says you can't make hard contact with the fielder?They have an unofficial rule to prevent that, too. Stephen Drew is a fair ways from second on this play from the ALCS.You ladies want to start giving out suspensions for a fastball to the ribcage by a pitcher too?
Sorry but Collisions are an awesome part of the game. We have a few a year where someone gets hurt... but what about runners going in hard to break up double plays? Baseball is a relatively safe sport overall... let's not turn it into checkers.
It doesn't stop runners from coming in hard, no. But it does allow the 2B/SS to be a good couple of feet out of the way when making the throw. And I'm not sure how much baseball is improved by having catchers tackled at the plate.
The bottom line baseball, while a grind, is not a tremendously physical game. The home plate collisions are RARELY significant... We've got about 2400 games a year. There are, what, a handful of major home plate collisions?
When it happens its a highlight of the game IMO and something fans really enjoy. The actual occurrence of injury is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. You say it doesn't add anything to the game, I disagree, respectfully.
I think it's up to the catcher to make the call on how important the run is and position himself appropriately.
Like I said...agree to disagree. I just think it's a ##### move by the game.
shadyridr
Footballguy
you said there are a handful of home plate collisions a year. You really think losing a handful will affect ratings?And you guys wonder why ratings for the game are plummeting...Whats more miniscule? The actual occurence of injury or saving 1 run in a 162 game season?Sorry I was being tongue in cheek about the "text of the rule" bit but it was poorly worded by me.Neighborhood rule isn't in the rules at all. It's something that umpires enforce, but by the book they're not supposed to.It doesn't stop runners from coming in hard, no. But it does allow the 2B/SS to be a good couple of feet out of the way when making the throw. And I'm not sure how much baseball is improved by having catchers tackled at the plate.Neighborhood rule doesn't stop guys from sliding in hard to break up the DP unless I'm missing something. Haven't read the actual text of the rule though. Is there anything that says you can't make hard contact with the fielder?They have an unofficial rule to prevent that, too. Stephen Drew is a fair ways from second on this play from the ALCS.You ladies want to start giving out suspensions for a fastball to the ribcage by a pitcher too?
Sorry but Collisions are an awesome part of the game. We have a few a year where someone gets hurt... but what about runners going in hard to break up double plays? Baseball is a relatively safe sport overall... let's not turn it into checkers.
The bottom line baseball, while a grind, is not a tremendously physical game. The home plate collisions are RARELY significant... We've got about 2400 games a year. There are, what, a handful of major home plate collisions?
When it happens its a highlight of the game IMO and something fans really enjoy. The actual occurrence of injury is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. You say it doesn't add anything to the game, I disagree, respectfully.
I think it's up to the catcher to make the call on how important the run is and position himself appropriately.
Like I said...agree to disagree. I just think it's a ##### move by the game.
Eephus
Footballguy
Come for the collisions, stay for the gameyou said there are a handful of home plate collisions a year. You really think losing a handful will affect ratings?And you guys wonder why ratings for the game are plummeting...Whats more miniscule? The actual occurence of injury or saving 1 run in a 162 game season?Sorry I was being tongue in cheek about the "text of the rule" bit but it was poorly worded by me.Neighborhood rule isn't in the rules at all. It's something that umpires enforce, but by the book they're not supposed to.It doesn't stop runners from coming in hard, no. But it does allow the 2B/SS to be a good couple of feet out of the way when making the throw. And I'm not sure how much baseball is improved by having catchers tackled at the plate.Neighborhood rule doesn't stop guys from sliding in hard to break up the DP unless I'm missing something. Haven't read the actual text of the rule though. Is there anything that says you can't make hard contact with the fielder?They have an unofficial rule to prevent that, too. Stephen Drew is a fair ways from second on this play from the ALCS.You ladies want to start giving out suspensions for a fastball to the ribcage by a pitcher too?
Sorry but Collisions are an awesome part of the game. We have a few a year where someone gets hurt... but what about runners going in hard to break up double plays? Baseball is a relatively safe sport overall... let's not turn it into checkers.
The bottom line baseball, while a grind, is not a tremendously physical game. The home plate collisions are RARELY significant... We've got about 2400 games a year. There are, what, a handful of major home plate collisions?
When it happens its a highlight of the game IMO and something fans really enjoy. The actual occurrence of injury is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. You say it doesn't add anything to the game, I disagree, respectfully.
I think it's up to the catcher to make the call on how important the run is and position himself appropriately.
Like I said...agree to disagree. I just think it's a ##### move by the game.
RnR
Footballguy
