This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Neither pick can be traded. The only tradeable picks in 2013 are the compensatory ones taken from teams that exceed their bonus pool for 2012. It remains to be seen whether there will even be any of these.I think it would increase interest in the draft if teams could trade picks but it won't happen under the current CBA.
Well for starters Marte would not get the deal done for Arizona - they are primarily looking for help at 3B - major league ready NOW or SS, ready now or very soon; tehy are okay at outfield play/depth even without UptonAnd Marte is the one young OF the Pirates have who is a legitimate leadoff hitter so I wouldn't be in a big rush to trade him
Pedro Alvarez and Marte? Would that do it? The issue is an unproven player v. a proven one. Baseball is littered with can't miss prospects who missed. Upton has proven he can hit at the major league level and has superstar potential. It is a no brainer for the Pirates, IMO.
How do you figure? Upton is locked up for the next 3 years and is a very good, young player. Alvarez, aside from a recent power binge has been a bust, and Marte, is a prospect at this point.
EGGSACTLY - so why would the Diamondbacks trade Upton for those two?IF they trade him they are not selling cheap
I think you and I agree, I was reading it as Plorfu thinks the deal would be bad for the Pirates. I am amazed at the Pirates love of Pedro Alvarez for a torrid month of hitting that raised his average to .230. He is a sub par defender to boot. I thought trading him for Chase Headley would be a good deal, and one poster said it was the dumbest post in this thread. And I am assuming he looked at Headley's stats away from Petco, as well as his numbers in NL Central parks. Oh, and the fact he is a superior defender to Alvarez.
Lets just throw in McCrutchen to be sure they say yes
Wait, you think Marte and Alvarez for Upton is a bad deal for the Pirates?
i do
How so?
Marte is under the Pirates' control for how long? More than the three years Upton has left on his contract. Is Upton making more than McCutchen? If he is, you probably have to redo Cutch's deal. I look at Upton's numbers - two very good years, in 2009 and 2011, a solid, but not spectacular year in 2010, and he's been below average this year. I think Marte could project to be a slightly lesser version of Upton. 20 HRs, 20 SB and the same average. Will he hit 30 HRs? Who knows at this point.Plus you have Alvarez in the deal. I make the argument that while McCutchen is the MVP of the team, the team goes as Alvarez goes. If he's hot, so is the team. If he's cold, they score one run on McCutchen homers like they did today. I think trading a corner infielder who can hit 30-plus home runs is a mistake. He's still young and still under the Pirates control.We shouldn't make this trade for this year. We should make a deal for this year, but not this one. I'm not opposed to trading Marte. I am opposed to trading Alvarez. I think that is a major loss for 2012.
They DON'T'fred_1_15301 said:
Yup figured that. I don't see any way a trade for Upton happens. I think Quentin is much more likely and I'm hoping that's the direction the Pirates go in.
I don't think Upton makes sense for Pittsburgh. They'd have to gut their farm system to make a run this year with a team that's not ready. OF is also a position of relative depth at both the Major and Minor league levels.
Upton is hitting .260 and has as many HR's as the backup catcher in Pittsburgh. I have no confidence that Upton would be better down the stretch than Marte would be. His reputation is also that he is a clubhouse cancer.'Premier said:
Alvarez is a above average glove at 3B. He might be hitting .230, but he is slugging .474. He is still young with a very high ceiling.
He's 25 and has almost 1000 MLB PAs. He has good power but strikes out way too much and is hopeless against LHP. His glove is average at best and his weight issues will affect his range in a few years. I've owned him in a dynasty league since his Vanderbilt but I'm realistic about his potential now. His ceiling is cutting down his strikeouts by a few percentage points and reducing his platoon split.
What do you think they'd have to give up for a rental like Quentin? For this year alone, he may be a better option than even Upton. Also, I think with a few additions, they could easily contend for a wild card (if not the division) this year.
I don't see getting Upton as making a run for just this year. He is 24 years old, and signed for 3 more years. He will be with the Pirates for a while. Trading Alvarez at his highest trade value, along with Marte, and a couple other farmhands make too much sense. Upton is a proven commodity,a young player who has produced at the major league level and offers 30-30 skills. Who cares who they give up on the farm? Upton isn't a one year rental like Quentin, he isn't an older, overpaid player like Alfonso Soriano. He is a young building block. And in 2 years, at age 26, he would still command a king's ransom in a trade.
He is an average glove at 3rd right now, and doesn't have great range. When do you give up on a high ceiling label? He has a lot of at bats in the major leagues. Expectations have to go down quite a bit. Does he have power? Yep. Is he abysmal against lefties? Yep. So he is essentially a platoon player who hits a lot of home runs couple with a horrible batting average. You would not be willing to give him up in a deal for Justin Upton?
Maybe so but for the same reasons I don't think the Diamondbacks bite unless the package includes Cole or Taillon.
Agreed. Although it is the dumbest post ever in the thread, I still think the Pirates should send Alvarez to the Pads in a deal for Headley. And give up whatever the D-BAcks want in a deal for Upton.
Why has he reached his potential when he is just no approaching essentially what amounts for 1.5 seasons of AB's?? He definitely strikes out too much, even moreso against lefties, but when you have power like he does he is not even close to a platoon player. He gets an extra base hit 11% of his AB's against lefties vs 12% against righties. Not much of a difference.I personally think Upton is a little overrated, but even if I felt as strongly about him as you do, I think Pedro + Marte is far too much for him. So Upton fills the hole in the OF Marte was supposed to - and with less risk on how Marte will be as a pro - but then youve created yourself another gaping hole at 3rd to go along with SS, 1B, and RF.
I agree those are definitely positions they should be looking for, but winning the Central is going to be tough regardless. The Reds are a better team, with less holes, and all the Cards need is their pitching staff to get a little healthier and theyre right there to begin with.
How do you know this is Alvarez's highest value? He has rare power and plays a very good 3B, I think he is exactly what they need now and going forward and I'm a big Upton fan. For Headley? Hell ####### no, that kind of move gets the Pirates exactly where they have been the past 20 years IMO. Marte fine, Pirates seem to have some good organizational OF depth even if Marte has a nice future. But trading a 3B with that kind of upside for anything is dumb IMO, I'd definitely hold him.
Barmes is one of the worst hitters I've ever seen. He's Jaime Quirk bad.
has marte learned to play SS?
Yeah ok genius. They're 2 independent moves that would improve the current team.
I think his point is, WHO would play SS? I have seen nothing in the media suggesting the Pirates are pursuing a SS. And Mercer sure isn't the answer.
Barmes is awful. Maybe the worst starting SS in baseball. He's an automatic out everytime he steps to the plate. His defense is solid but doesn't make up for the complete liability that he is at the plate. I don't have the answer but NH needs to be creative and make a trade. At this point, just about anyone would be an upgrade. As for Marte, I don't get why he hasn't been called up yet. He may not be a stud but he's better than the circus act of Sutton/Harrison. Without a few moves, Cutch will eventually cool down and this team will fade
Jed Lowrie had been suggested, but not now that he is injured.
I've heard that Yunel Escobar may be available. I agree it's a long shot to find a ss. If Marte comes up and improves our corner OF, I could live with a liability at SS.
I think they do not want to rush him up. They want him to get 700AB at AAA before bringing him up or something, which is a similar route they took with Cutch and Walker, so I hear.Barmes is awful. Maybe the worst starting SS in baseball. He's an automatic out everytime he steps to the plate. His defense is solid but doesn't make up for the complete liability that he is at the plate. I don't have the answer but NH needs to be creative and make a trade. At this point, just about anyone would be an upgrade. As for Marte, I don't get why he hasn't been called up yet. He may not be a stud but he's better than the circus act of Sutton/Harrison. Without a few moves, Cutch will eventually cool down and this team will fade
You don't give up on a high ceiling label in a players 2nd full season. He wasn't really ready when he was brought up. He should have stayed in the minors another year or so. He is getting better against lefties and with a .421 slg% against lefties this season, I am not sure abysmal is fair. He is never going to hit .300, but he can be a .265 hitter with 40 HR's. That is a pretty high ceiling.
That's Mark Reynolds in 2009
