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***Official Pro Wrestling Thread*** (6 Viewers)

I think if you change two little things about the Rumble match, you would find it much more positive:

1. Forget the Superman comeback by Reigns. Start the LON beatdown much later in the match, then as soon as HHH comes out, he commands the LON to throw him back in the ring, and HHH tosses the lifeless Reigns over the top. You get the same result, but better booked. Reigns is now the broken ex-champ with 10 weeks to climb back up the ladder until WM.

2. The Wyatt Family eliminates Brock before they are eliminated, not after. You want Brock to get his eliminations, but you feed him someone else (Jericho, Miz, ADR). And then you let Ambrose and HHH both eliminate one Wyatt each, maybe even team up for the third. Gives Wyatts heat, sets up Wyatts vs. Brock/Taker at WM.

I have no problems with HHH as Champ. It's a bit lazy, but with all of the injuries, it gives you the heel champ that you need going into WM.
I thought it was booked well. Your way would have been good too. You can pick and nit here or there, but overall the story is being told well, IMO.

I know it's easy to make HHH a target for booking himself as the champ, but like you said, with all the injuries you need his star power for WM.

What people may have missed in just looking at the result of the last match was a clear attempt to build up other talent. Ambrose had a big night, along with the IC Belt. So did Owens, AJ Styles, all the women involved in the championship match, Sami Zayn, the Wyatts, the LON, Kalisto, etc. Unlike the last couple weeks, it really looks like they have a plan beyond just Roman Reigns.

 
I think if you change two little things about the Rumble match, you would find it much more positive:

1. Forget the Superman comeback by Reigns. Start the LON beatdown much later in the match, then as soon as HHH comes out, he commands the LON to throw him back in the ring, and HHH tosses the lifeless Reigns over the top. You get the same result, but better booked. Reigns is now the broken ex-champ with 10 weeks to climb back up the ladder until WM.

2. The Wyatt Family eliminates Brock before they are eliminated, not after. You want Brock to get his eliminations, but you feed him someone else (Jericho, Miz, ADR). And then you let Ambrose and HHH both eliminate one Wyatt each, maybe even team up for the third. Gives Wyatts heat, sets up Wyatts vs. Brock/Taker at WM.

I have no problems with HHH as Champ. It's a bit lazy, but with all of the injuries, it gives you the heel champ that you need going into WM.
I thought it was booked well. Your way would have been good too. You can pick and nit here or there, but overall the story is being told well, IMO.

I know it's easy to make HHH a target for booking himself as the champ, but like you said, with all the injuries you need his star power for WM.

What people may have missed in just looking at the result of the last match was a clear attempt to build up other talent. Ambrose had a big night, along with the IC Belt. So did Owens, AJ Styles, all the women involved in the championship match, Sami Zayn, the Wyatts, the LON, Kalisto, etc. Unlike the last couple weeks, it really looks like they have a plan beyond just Roman Reigns.
Agreed, I thought yesterday was a great show and they're doing a very solid job with the talent they have left. There are a lot of great guys in the pipeline and the veterans are going to be back sometime mid to late year so I think good things are coming.

The only thing I was disappointed about yesterday was that I was hoping to see Finn Balor worked in a bit, but aside from that no real complaints

 
Yeah it's weird how Reigns gets booed out of the blue. Guy has done nothing wrong recently. I just thought it was quite funny it was obvious he was getting heavily booed (I think Cole even brought up the mixed reaction)......then have his heelish leaving and coming back.

It's the same reason I thought there was zero chance of Reigns/Brock at Mania.......Reigns would get booed again. It's nothing against Reigns, but he's not Brock Lesnar nor ever will be. Brock's a freak of nature that we'll never see again in our lifetimes.

HHH winning was obvious since they announced the title stipulation. They're married to it now, but I really wish they'd find something other than Reigns/HHH at Mania. Again, I know they won't (as they've got a huge building to fill & think HHH top of card gives best shot). Reigns beating a very part time worker/CEO HHH doesn't elevate him.

Final 2: Big part of me wishes HHH rolled under the ring, grabbed the belt, went back into ring and handed it to Ambrose w/o a word/handshake & went over voluntarily the top rope. You don't kill Ambrose's character you've built, but build the rift between him (being handed the title) and Reigns (having stratched/clawed his way to get/hold the belt). If you decide at a later date to turn Ambrose full on heel, do it. Or even have Reigns turn (if can't beat them, join them). That's how I would have booked it personally. But fully understand they've got a 90K+ (?) building to fill and don't have the confidence Reigns/Ambrose would help with that. With all the injuries, they've got to have HHH on the card whether they want to or not.

 
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Usos also booed pretty bad. Said a year ago Reigns and The Usos should be a heel group. So easy to book. They're all talented so they deserve key roles but if the humanoids hate them you need to adapt to it.
Personally I'm finding them a bit stale, but they barely wrestled last year while the New Day has been about the most entertaining thing in the tag team division in a long time; and the fans voted the Usos tag team of the year. I think they still have a strong following with kids and they (their parents) buy most of the merch.

 
Final 2: Big part of me wishes HHH rolled under the ring, grabbed the belt, went back into ring and handed it to Ambrose w/o a word/handshake & went over voluntarily the top rope. You don't kill Ambrose's character you've built, but build the rift between him (being handed the title) and Reigns (having stratched/clawed his way to get/hold the belt). If you decide at a later date to turn Ambrose full on heel, do it. Or even have Reigns turn. That's how I would have booked it personally. But fully understand they've got a 90K+ (?) building to fill and don't have the confidence Reigns/Ambrose would help with that.
Wow I love that. Absolutely perfect way to turn Reigns.

 
The result doesn't bother me, as Reigns vs HHH at WrestleMania will mean more with the belt at stake. I assume Reigns will need to put his career on the line to get HHH to agree to give him the match.
How many times has Trips lost clean with a belt at stake? Can't be more than a handful.

 
Yeah it's weird how Reigns gets booed out of the blue. Guy has done nothing wrong recently. I just thought it was quite funny it was obvious he was getting heavily booed (I think Cole even brought up the mixed reaction)......then have his heelish leaving and coming back.
I think they story they're going for there is he was "taken out" by the heel faction, but through sheer toughness and determination, he was able to return. You used to see that with Mankind and Austin back in the day. He should be in the hospital, but this SOB is so tough he's coming back!

 
It may not be straight HHH vs Reigns at WM... Heyman has had a tiny bit of heat with the authority lately and Bray had a battle with HHH during the rumble so the door is open for it to turn in to a fatal four way.

Personally I would love to see them get Reigns to sell out to the authority and have Wyatt be the anti-authority guy but we're probably too far down the road to flip Reigns now.

 
Yeah it's weird how Reigns gets booed out of the blue. Guy has done nothing wrong recently. I just thought it was quite funny it was obvious he was getting heavily booed (I think Cole even brought up the mixed reaction)......then have his heelish leaving and coming back.
I think they story they're going for there is he was "taken out" by the heel faction, but through sheer toughness and determination, he was able to return. You used to see that with Mankind and Austin back in the day. He should be in the hospital, but this SOB is so tough he's coming back!
This would have worked better if he'd refused the stretcher and climbed back into the ring. Go sit backstage for half an hour, and the story the fans see is either "Reigns is afraid to face Lesnar/Wyatts" or just "Reigns isn't in shape to work an entire match". Is it any wonder the guy gets booed?

 
Yeah it's weird how Reigns gets booed out of the blue. Guy has done nothing wrong recently. I just thought it was quite funny it was obvious he was getting heavily booed (I think Cole even brought up the mixed reaction)......then have his heelish leaving and coming back.
I think they story they're going for there is he was "taken out" by the heel faction, but through sheer toughness and determination, he was able to return. You used to see that with Mankind and Austin back in the day. He should be in the hospital, but this SOB is so tough he's coming back!
This would have worked better if he'd refused the stretcher and climbed back into the ring. Go sit backstage for half an hour, and the story the fans see is either "Reigns is afraid to face Lesnar/Wyatts" or just "Reigns isn't in shape to work an entire match". Is it any wonder the guy gets booed?
I think they wanted the others to have the stage for a while. I think where they really succeeded last night was taking a match that was really about 3 people (HHH, Reigns, Lesnar), and providing an opportunity for others to get over as well. I think clearing Reigns out for a while helped in that regard.

I think the mistake they made was letting him off the stretcher. They should have made him ride it all the way through the curtain to make him look totally incapacitated.

 
I always feel like the Rumble is the best night to listen to the crowd, because it is the one night of the year that almost the entire roster performs, so you can really gauge the popularity of performers versus one another well. There were 5 big pops that stood out to me:

1. Dean Ambrose after Reigns was eliminated. That was the first time in a couple years, on the main roster anyway, where a crowd has been 100% behind a person. They should have called an audible and just had Ambrose win the Rumble. He wouldn't have had to keep it until Mania. Hell, have Reigns pull HHH off the apron at the end there. Tells just as good a story, and gives you that huge crowd celebration moment, that they are nuts if they think they will get at Mania.

2. AJ Styles, good to see how well received he was. loved how he was eliminated as well. Welcome to the WWE indeed.

3. Damien Sandow, seriously, I hope he gets back on TV regularly after that.

4. Sasha Banks, Becky-Charlotte was really good, and was basically overshadowed by Sasha finally making her presence felt in the title picture.

5. Sami Zayn, didn't see that coming at all. He and Owens should feud forever.

I thought the Ambrose/Owens match was the highlight of the night, and probably the best last man standing match in about a decade. I wasn't expecting much, because Ambrose seems to lose about 100 IQ points in gimmick matches. Who can forget him losing a title match because of a ghost lantern or losing because a TV blew up in his face? Ambrose, when he's allowed to not be a jackass, is as good as anybody, and proved it last night as basically the MVP of the show.

The Usos need a heel turn more than anyone in a long time. They are mayo on white bread, and got about 1/10th the fan reaction as an inanimate object. Not a good sign for your #1 face tag team. Also, they might be the least athletic high flyers I've ever seen. Big E is a better high flyer than either of them. Speaking of Big E, while I love New Day, Big E should really be a way bigger deal than he is. How is it he isn't getting a Reigns-like push? He's bigger, stronger, more athletic and has 100X the personality. Throws a better spear too.

I tend to root for the heels over the faces, because I see no reason why not to. The faces usually act like spoiled teenagers, and the heels tend to act like adults that are doing their jobs. So, I really like when a story is told where I actually root for a face, which is what I want to be able to do. The fix is either for the faces to be noble, likable people(like Bayley) or for the heels to actually do awful things to give us a real reason to dislike them(like that time Paige made fun of Charlotte's dead brother) last night had both in the Charlotte-Becky match. Becky has been extremely level headed and isn't cheating, despite having every right to, and Charlotte and obviously Ric Flair, are unlikable jerks. The forced kiss spot was great, as was the jacket throwing. As much as I like Sasha, and want to see her at the top, I hope Becky isn't forgotten about going forward, because she's been a highlight of the show for about 2 months now.

Del Rio-Kalisto should have been better. I don't know if Del Rio just didn't care or Kalisto was just nervous or what, but what should have been a fast paced Lucha affair, ended up being a botch heavy, slow motion match. I hope they don't try to keep this feud going. What they should really do is use the US title as a substitute for the Cruiserweight title. Build the US title going forward around having fast pace matches, with smaller guys like Kalisto, Neville, Breeze, Zayn and Styles. Throw in some slightly bigger guys like Stardust and Ziggler, maybe have Balor there when he gets called up, or even Bryan if/when he comes back. A ton of fun ideas. Of course, that likely means Del Rio wins the title back on Raw, the groundhog doesn't see its shadow, and we have 6 more weeks of this feud.

As for the Rumble itself. I still think we haven't had a great rumble since 2010. Just way too much garbage going on. Way too much attention to Reigns(like I'd feared) we missed Kofi's big thing and Reigns looked like a loser having to go to the locker room for half the match just because he got kicked a few times and put through a table. Ambrose and Owens went through more and they weren't getting to sit out out half the rumble. I just don't get the Reigns thing, and likely never will. The majority of the above 10 years old crowd hates him, and was cheering HHH, who is supposed to be the baddest bad guy there, over him.

Also, why did they even bother having Lesnar in the Rumble. He did barely anything and got eliminated relatively easily. Also, they spent the last 2 weeks playing up the Reigns-Lesnar battle in the Rumble, and they weren't even in the ring together at any point. I want the Wyatt family to matter, but in a month they've gone from struggling to beat Tommy Dreamer to toppling Brock Lesnar. With the seeming likelyhood that Lesnar(and probably Taker) will just beat all 4 of them at Mania. Seems like a waste of Lesnar, Taker and Wyatt.

I'll end on a positive note(I liked the show overall, solid B+) R-Truth coming out to win Money in the Bank was awesome. That'll probably be the thing I remember most about the Rumble, because its exactly the type of thing I like seeing. If a character isn't a real threat to win, at least have them be memorable for something.

 
:lmao: TNA now congratulating AJ Styles on WWE Debut. :lmao:

Talk about bipolar.

Is there anyone other than Dixie Carter that thinks that company will ever turn it around?

 
Also, they spent the last 2 weeks playing up the Reigns-Lesnar battle in the Rumble, and they weren't even in the ring together at any point.
"You want to see Reigns fight Lesnar? Too bad, you gotta pay for that ####."

"But Vince, we did pay for-"

"#### you."

 
Jeremy really killing it ITT.

I thought the show was pretty good overall, and a fun show to watch with the family. Royal Rumble has become one of only two events (Mania being the other) that the wife and kids will all sit down and watch live. We play a game during the rumble that gives everyone a vested interest in the match until the end. Bonus points are given to "surprise" entrants, so when AJ Styles came in at three, we all marked out, even though I was the only one with prior knowledge of him. It certainly helped his case with such a strong showing. The portion with Styles/Owens/Zayn was really well booked, imo. Very interested to see where it goes.

The end-game was definitely something - not sure what yet. Would've been a great time to elevate Ambrose, but that's obviously not the story they're telling. Brock was handled weird, too. They seem to be keeping him away from the title scene. Hard to do that when he is far and away the biggest, most special and legit dude in the company.

Aside from the rumble itself, I liked Owens/Ambrose a lot. Thought it was in the 4-star range. New Day rocks, Usos ... not so much. Agree that Big E should be pushed as a main event level guy. Tag team division needs some talent infusion. I'd love to see Gable/Jordan, Enzo/Cass, and Dash/Dawson promoted to the main roster, but fear that would just mean I'd have to watch Superstars to see them wrestle.

Charlotte vs. Becky was pretty OK, but I didn't see the whole match. Saw the ending tho :wub: :wub: :wub: . Only saw a bit of Del Rio vs. Kalisto. By the sound of it, there's no rush to go back and watch it again.

I'm actually looking forward to Raw tonight to see how they build from last night.

 
Yeah it's weird how Reigns gets booed out of the blue. Guy has done nothing wrong recently. I just thought it was quite funny it was obvious he was getting heavily booed (I think Cole even brought up the mixed reaction)......then have his heelish leaving and coming back.
I think they story they're going for there is he was "taken out" by the heel faction, but through sheer toughness and determination, he was able to return. You used to see that with Mankind and Austin back in the day. He should be in the hospital, but this SOB is so tough he's coming back!
It's problematic in the idea that that's another cliche that creative used to try to get Reigns over.

 
The end-game was definitely something - not sure what yet. Would've been a great time to elevate Ambrose, but that's obviously not the story they're telling. Brock was handled weird, too. They seem to be keeping him away from the title scene. Hard to do that when he is far and away the biggest, most special and legit dude in the company.
The problem with Lesnar is that he could be a title killer much like Undertaker has been and Andre before that. Unless you have a challenger of roughly equal size, you have to either 1) kayfabe screw him out of it or, 2) keep him out of the title picture altogether. All 3 guys I've mentioned do not need the belt to get over. Think about it; when was UT's last title match? Much like Andre had his overall unbeaten streak, UT had his WM unbeaten streak that defined his career.

 
The irony here is that while they want Roman to be the sympathetic figure that finally beats the odds and stands tall at WM, the story of Ambrose dating back to the end of The Shield has been written perfectly for just that climax. Amazingly the crowd still loves him after all the up and down booking. Him finally taking the title off Rollins to close WM would have been a true moment.

 
The end-game was definitely something - not sure what yet. Would've been a great time to elevate Ambrose, but that's obviously not the story they're telling. Brock was handled weird, too. They seem to be keeping him away from the title scene. Hard to do that when he is far and away the biggest, most special and legit dude in the company.
The problem with Lesnar is that he could be a title killer much like Undertaker has been and Andre before that. Unless you have a challenger of roughly equal size, you have to either 1) kayfabe screw him out of it or, 2) keep him out of the title picture altogether. All 3 guys I've mentioned do not need the belt to get over. Think about it; when was UT's last title match? Much like Andre had his overall unbeaten streak, UT had his WM unbeaten streak that defined his career.
To answer my own question, UT's 4th and final World title reign ended July 21, 2002.
 
The end-game was definitely something - not sure what yet. Would've been a great time to elevate Ambrose, but that's obviously not the story they're telling. Brock was handled weird, too. They seem to be keeping him away from the title scene. Hard to do that when he is far and away the biggest, most special and legit dude in the company.
The problem with Lesnar is that he could be a title killer much like Undertaker has been and Andre before that. Unless you have a challenger of roughly equal size, you have to either 1) kayfabe screw him out of it or, 2) keep him out of the title picture altogether. All 3 guys I've mentioned do not need the belt to get over. Think about it; when was UT's last title match? Much like Andre had his overall unbeaten streak, UT had his WM unbeaten streak that defined his career.
Agree, especially since he's a part-timer. Just wish WWE could write a compelling program for him. Not sure this Wyatt Family stuff qualifies.
 
What's going on with the crowd in the Wyatt/Kane match? :lmao:

Was someone dressed as Savage ringside? (Saw someone colorful in a ringside seat) I'm sure he was escorted away.

 
Amazing. If some of these guys had half his charisma...

Him and Triple H are in better shape than most of the current roster.

 
Amazing how he can hold the crowd in the palm of his hand the very second he arrives. As a guy that hasn't done this for a living full time for over a dozen years.....

He really makes the rest of their roster look so so so bad. And makes you wonder WTF they're doing with these promos classes at WWE&NXT. And New Day is probably one of their best acts going. Usos don't even belong in the same building as Rock.

He looks like a star. Talks like a star. Makes guys like Kevin Owens, Dean Ambrose, Sami Zayn, Sloppy Joe, Finn Balor, and every other cookie cutter clown coming out of NXT (none of whom LOOK like stars nor stand out on the mic) look like a complete ####### joke. BUT WOOHOO FOR 5 STAR MATCHES!!! :thumbup: Good luck with turning around the business with that.....Going to be waiting awhile.

 
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I must have watched a different promo. Rock looked completely coked out of his brain out there. Just because the crowd was excited to see him doesn't mean he cut a good promo.

Talking to the cosplay dorks was atrocious. They had already moved those guys because they were distracting the crowd - now Rock validated fans that pull that crap.

New Day talked circles around him.

 
I must have watched a different promo. Rock looked completely coked out of his brain out there. Just because the crowd was excited to see him doesn't mean he cut a good promo.

Talking to the cosplay dorks was atrocious. They had already moved those guys because they were distracting the crowd - now Rock validated fans that pull that crap.

New Day talked circles around him.
Agree with this. His presence is that of a star, but his work tonight, I thought, sucked. Relied on his same old juvenile crap. Wife swooning over him made me want to puke too.

 
On the whole I thought Styles/Jericho was a good match, but Jericho seemed off or something. Anybody else pick up on that? Probably just the two of them not having chemistry or whatever from lack of working together, but I thought Jericho carried too much of the match, maybe stepped on AJ a little. Would've like to see more AJ offense. Also, lots of the transitions seemed clunky. Didn't help that it wasn't a typical face/heel dynamic either I suppose. Is Jericho slowly turning, or does acting passive aggressive towards the new guy make you babyface?

 
That was a fun Raw, that shall forever be remembered as the Raw where IRS' son legitimately out rapped a professional rapper with ease. Panthers-Cardinals wasn't that one sided. Also liked Curtis Axel refusing to recognize any of Adam Rose's nicknames for anyone. This group could have some legs, next step is getting some wins.

The Rock was his usual terrible self. He's on that special level where he could have just put the mic in his armpit and made fart sounds into it, and people would still be like, "OMG, The Rock was so funny, and creative, and way better than everyone else." He hasn't had a good promo in over a decade. Thankfully New Day came out to 100% save(save is an understatement, RESCUE might be more apt) that segment. Other than them, Rock spent 20 minutes saying gibberish, in between occasionally saying Miami and Wrestlemania. I did enjoy the bit with Big Show though. Big Show has always been outstanding with facial expressions.

I think I figured out my problem the Roman Reigns story. So, The Authority manipulates the entire Royal Rumble to get the title off of him, and then 24 hours later, gives him another likely title match. There is no struggle or consequence at all. Honestly, HHH made Seth Rollins jump through more hoops than Reigns.

 
Rock was solid but definitely seemed to be enjoying Miami night life. New day seemed like chumps next to him. Maybe I haven't been following closely but when did new day get so billy and chuck.

Rock with the guys at ringside was great though. A chance none of these nitwits working would take nor would the "grab the brass ring" crowd endorse but a nice moment of making the medium of being LIVE work

 
Tom Servo said:
Tom Servo said:
lardonastick said:
The end-game was definitely something - not sure what yet. Would've been a great time to elevate Ambrose, but that's obviously not the story they're telling. Brock was handled weird, too. They seem to be keeping him away from the title scene. Hard to do that when he is far and away the biggest, most special and legit dude in the company.
The problem with Lesnar is that he could be a title killer much like Undertaker has been and Andre before that. Unless you have a challenger of roughly equal size, you have to either 1) kayfabe screw him out of it or, 2) keep him out of the title picture altogether. All 3 guys I've mentioned do not need the belt to get over. Think about it; when was UT's last title match? Much like Andre had his overall unbeaten streak, UT had his WM unbeaten streak that defined his career.
To answer my own question, UT's 4th and final World title reign ended July 21, 2002.
It's crazy that arguably the best performer of all time has barely held the title, at least compared to guys like Flair, Hogan, Cena, HHH, Orton, etc. He's had 4 title reigns totaling 238 days over a 25 year career. It goes to what you're saying about some guys not needing the belt or it not being a good fit for them.

 
Entertaining RAW, hits and misses, but glad I watched. Yeah, something was off with the Rock, but his interaction with the Big Show was the best part of the show, promo wise.

I like the dynamic of the Main Event for Fastlane. I'm hoping we get a few weeks of Ambrose and Reigns having some hidden tension and concerns of a Rollins like turn. And Brock in a triple threat is always fun. I'm guessing that Reigns wins, maybe even pinning Ambrose, which could create a WM backstab and heel turn by Ambrose.

 
Amazing how he can hold the crowd in the palm of his hand the very second he arrives. As a guy that hasn't done this for a living full time for over a dozen years.....

He really makes the rest of their roster look so so so bad. And makes you wonder WTF they're doing with these promos classes at WWE&NXT. And New Day is probably one of their best acts going. Usos don't even belong in the same building as Rock.

He looks like a star. Talks like a star. Makes guys like Kevin Owens, Dean Ambrose, Sami Zayn, Sloppy Joe, Finn Balor, and every other cookie cutter clown coming out of NXT (none of whom LOOK like stars nor stand out on the mic) look like a complete ####### joke. BUT WOOHOO FOR 5 STAR MATCHES!!! :thumbup: Good luck with turning around the business with that.....Going to be waiting awhile.
I'm not sure you can teach what the Rock has. You can't just take anybody and teach them to be Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers.

But that is the problem with bringing in the Rock. He makes everyone else look bad in comparison. And he's allowed to ignore the "standards and practices" restrictions placed on all the other performers.

 
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Very predictable. Wyatts take out Brock, Reigns pins Dean. Reigns goes to WM to beat Triple H.
That would be the expected outcome, but I feel like they're building up to something big with Ambrose. He got the spotlight shined on him pretty strongly at the Rumble, and he looked every bit the big star Reigns did as they were standing next to each other in the ring last night. Reportedly they had flirted with putting the belt on him in the tournament after Rollins got hurt. But he's been so close so many times, that it feels like the audience is ready to explode for Ambrose when it finally does happen. As someone else alluded to, as much as they maybe pushed Reigns up the ladder too quickly, the slow ascent of Ambrose has been just right.

On the other hand, I suppose they have to pay off the feud between HHH and Reigns at some point, and apparently HHH isn't going to defend until WrestleMania. Likely they're just using Ambrose to help Reigns get over again, since that has been successful in the past.

 

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