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***Official*** Ronnie Hillman bandwagon.... (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
mere blitzianity
Footballguy
Dumbest thing I've ever heard!'Lascelle said:
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
What happened to Mr. "Insider" Lammey?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
3 rushes for 9 yards, zero targets
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Booby, in the McGahee thread I posted that local radio in Denver was talking Moreno pretty strongly. I don't directly debate Lammey because I don't live in Denver, he does. But a few of us pointed out what folks who get paid decent dough to talk and cover sports there were saying. Then you add in a coach who held back DWill/JStew, DeShaun Foster/LaDell Betts...it all added up to what we saw with Moreno today. I don't think it was the shock that some in here are thinking it was. People don't want to listen, they want to read whatever helps further their hopes on players. I don't want to get in the line of fire with this because so many seem to be adamant that FBG mislead them but I don't see how folks could not see the signs of this possibility.
Ty_Webb
Footballguy
Maybe he is talking to imaginary John Fox again.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
This is weak. He never said he was an insider. He said he attends the practices and spoke with Fox. Apparently the veteran coach was a little less than forthcoming about the running back situation. I don't think Cecil was grandstanding or anything, but he does sometimes believe his own eyes more than the information available. I don't recall anyone at all reporting the Knowshon would get the start before this morning. That said, glad I sold on Hillman.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
http://broncotalk.net/2012/11/42692/broncos-blog/broncos-moreno-prepared-to-step-up-in-denver/
That was from last Tuesday. How much more forthcoming can we expect a HC to be?
Insein
Footballguy
Literally 12:54 when ESPN Fantasy Football Now declared that Knowshon was the definitive starter. I don't think anyone knew for sure what was going on. Wish I knew about an hour earlier when I had a chance to do something about it. A big fat zero from Hillman when I have TY hilton and Chris givens on the bench will cost me the game this week. Ugh.
Insein
Footballguy
Rotoworld per Denver post Tuesday, 11/20.
Some miscommunication somewhere. Just saying.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but one link has Fox stating that Moreno will likely take Willis' role while the other one sepculates Hillman will be the guy based on a generaic quote from Fox saying he has improved over the weeks. I think the media in general dropped the ball here. Fox clearly stated his intentions on Monday yet the Fantasy football talking heads pretty much universally ignored Moreno's prospects this week.
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Insein
Footballguy
I don't even blame Cecil. That is what Fox was saying to the press during the week. There really wasn't an indication that Knowshon was going to get a significant role let alone be the sole runner. Everyone was scrambling today on the pregame shows when they announced him the starter.RankingsESPN: Hillman 18, Moreno, unranked. CBS: Eisenberg RH-34, KM-27CBS: Richard RH-31, KM-48CBS: Zegura RH-26, KM-UnrankedYahoo: Hillman 26, Moreno 62No one saw this coming except Eisenberg apparently.
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Possum
Footballguy
I don't know about you, but to me, a guy who watches practices and speaks with the coaches and players every week is about as much of an insider as you can be without being on the actual team.
Church of Iggy Pop
Footballguy
What an unmitigated disaster. 
I guess if there's a lesson to be learned here, I should've pumped the brakes on the bandwagon, and waited one week to see how the post-McGahee backfield shook out. The Chiefs matchup was just too tempting...
I guess if there's a lesson to be learned here, I should've pumped the brakes on the bandwagon, and waited one week to see how the post-McGahee backfield shook out. The Chiefs matchup was just too tempting...
Insein
Footballguy
I don't really care who the better back is. What I want to know is why it wasn't more widely reported that Knowshon has a shot to get significant play let alone all the carries. Is Fox that good at keeping his starters hidden? Did knowshon not get first team carries this week? This was so late in the morning to learn about that many didn't get a chance to react. It's unfortunate.
Ty_Webb
Footballguy
“Next week, it’ll be more than likely Knowshon instead of Willis,” Coach John Fox said on Monday.
This is the 1st time I have seen this quote. Would have been really nice for someone to have posted that earlier in the week. Seeing as Lammey is around the Broncos all the time, why didn't he pass on this info?
This is the 1st time I have seen this quote. Would have been really nice for someone to have posted that earlier in the week. Seeing as Lammey is around the Broncos all the time, why didn't he pass on this info?
Buffaloes
Footballguy
It was posted in the "NoShow Moreno" thread on Tuesday. It was the quote that made me move KM up to my #1 WW priority Tuesday night. Anymore, I think the forums are a better source for FFL content than pay sites or free sites like KFFL.
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dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Freaking A exactly.
Not only does Cecil trash Moreno on the Audible but he laughed when asked if Moreno could start over Hillman. I did start him and will probably lose because I did. I don't blame anyone but myself. That being said, it's going for be hard for me to trust Cecil's advice in the future.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
I think a lot of you blaming others need to take a look in the mirror. Seriously, how could you ignore 5+ years of Fox history??? Speaking of history, Cecil has a history of putting too much weight into Broncos pre-season / camp.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
For you longtime FBGs, you know the meaning of the word Gunzed. Whenever Gunz or Lhucks tell you to zig, it would be in your best intrest to zag.
Insein
Footballguy
Ugh, had I seen this post, I wouldve zagged. Damn holiday kept me out of the loop too much. My fault. I gotta do a better job of putting my players in a position to win. I take full responsibility.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Nucker101
Footballguy
That was the quote that had me excited about adding him this week as well. It was a bit confusing whether Fox just meant that it would be Moreno stepping into McGahee's role or active roster spot but it was enough to take a chance on him as someone who owned McGahee in multiple leagues and didn't have a shot at scooping up Hillman.
Qtip Callahan
Footballguy
Agreed, but I dont see how FBG didn't see it either.. ESP w the Fox angle..
Wondering about this too.
This was pretty bad, I saw bloom on twitter saying Hillman could still be better play after it was announced Moreno was starter. I can understand missing on who you thought would get touches but when the coaches finally tell you it's time to give up on the dream.
This was kind of confusing bc of Hillman splitting touches with ball last week post injury but the lesson I am taking is always always look at what the coaches are saying not the fantasy experts a guy has to play to score and knowing who is playing is incredibly important
This was kind of confusing bc of Hillman splitting touches with ball last week post injury but the lesson I am taking is always always look at what the coaches are saying not the fantasy experts a guy has to play to score and knowing who is playing is incredibly important
Man just saw that fox quote talking about Moreno as a starter on Monday! Wish I would have read a bit more about the situation myself.
That seems like the type of blurb that should get mentioned on RW, espn, fbg, etc. this was a pretty big miss by everyone and I do kind of wonder why? Was one where extra leg work would let you beat the experts for once
That seems like the type of blurb that should get mentioned on RW, espn, fbg, etc. this was a pretty big miss by everyone and I do kind of wonder why? Was one where extra leg work would let you beat the experts for once
Nucker101
Footballguy
There was some confusion as to whether Fox meant that he'd be taking over McGahee's role or active roster spot. I guess that ESPN, CBS, FBG, etc. just assumed it meant the roster spot or didn't really do a good job of reporting it.
The thing that is really difficult to understand is how Hillman's share of the workload actually diminishes, and by a lot, with the absence of McGahee for a full game. I can understand him not being a 20-25 carry back for reasons already mentioned, but to go from a decent share of the committee to nothing is hard to fathom. And not only that, Lance Ball didn't see any action today, which you would think would benefit Hillman in terms of touches. I think it was very reasonable to expect a floor of 10 carries or so for Hillman, even with Moreno starting. Also, if Moreno is the preferred back now in terms of pass protection etc, why hasn't he been active over Lance Ball up until now? I just don't get it.
It has become accepted wisdom on this site that Moreno is terrible. I agree he's not great, but is he truly any worse than a guy like Rashad Jennings, who Bloom and others advocated spending all your remaining FABB dollars on (which seemed like a good idea at the time) or Cedric Benson, a known plodder, who FBG has been advocating stashing for a possible week 16 championship game, or BJGE, or even Johnny freaking White, who was mentioned as someone to keep an eye on in Green Bay, when it was painfully apparent he wasn't going to do anything? The point is that even guys with limited talent (and don't forget, Moreno has a decent pedigree) can be productive when given the opportunity. I don't think anyone expects the FBG staff to be right all the time - there are a lot of variables that go into this stuff, and you have to make a call, but some objectivity around Moreno would be nice. Because the fact is that, when he's received lead back carries in the past, he's mostly put up solid RB2 numbers in PPR leagues. It doesn't matter how he looks doing it, the fact is that, given the opportunity to own the backfield, he is productive from a fantasy perspective. That's what counts here, not whether he is the future of the Denver backfield.
It was disappointing to hear Cecil again in the recap show take a head in the sand approach with Moreno. Rather than admitting he was wrong, he chose to claim that this backfield was still up for grabs, still in flux. That might be the case, but equally, why would Fox change things after Moreno performed well today? Most hilariously, Cecil implored us not to be 'myopic' when looking at this Broncos backfield, which is exactly what he's been when talking about Hillman, dismissing today's performance by Moreno as "his best game of the season". Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but to claim that there's nothing to see here with Moreno in terms of having value for the rest of the fantasy season is just ignorant and wilfully stubborn.
It has become accepted wisdom on this site that Moreno is terrible. I agree he's not great, but is he truly any worse than a guy like Rashad Jennings, who Bloom and others advocated spending all your remaining FABB dollars on (which seemed like a good idea at the time) or Cedric Benson, a known plodder, who FBG has been advocating stashing for a possible week 16 championship game, or BJGE, or even Johnny freaking White, who was mentioned as someone to keep an eye on in Green Bay, when it was painfully apparent he wasn't going to do anything? The point is that even guys with limited talent (and don't forget, Moreno has a decent pedigree) can be productive when given the opportunity. I don't think anyone expects the FBG staff to be right all the time - there are a lot of variables that go into this stuff, and you have to make a call, but some objectivity around Moreno would be nice. Because the fact is that, when he's received lead back carries in the past, he's mostly put up solid RB2 numbers in PPR leagues. It doesn't matter how he looks doing it, the fact is that, given the opportunity to own the backfield, he is productive from a fantasy perspective. That's what counts here, not whether he is the future of the Denver backfield.
It was disappointing to hear Cecil again in the recap show take a head in the sand approach with Moreno. Rather than admitting he was wrong, he chose to claim that this backfield was still up for grabs, still in flux. That might be the case, but equally, why would Fox change things after Moreno performed well today? Most hilariously, Cecil implored us not to be 'myopic' when looking at this Broncos backfield, which is exactly what he's been when talking about Hillman, dismissing today's performance by Moreno as "his best game of the season". Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but to claim that there's nothing to see here with Moreno in terms of having value for the rest of the fantasy season is just ignorant and wilfully stubborn.
thehornet
Footballguy
Its unfortunate that he didnt get the start, but you should have had a backup plan. I thought they would split carries almost evenly between Hillman, Ball and Moreno. One thing I would suggest you realize before you ditch Hillman is that they played the hapless Cheifs. They will need Hillman for the playoffs.
Lastly, know the tendencies of people you get your advise from. Of course Cecil is going to trash Moreno, he lives in Denver!
Its your own fault if you messed this up. Knews of Moreno starting came out before gametime.
Lastly, know the tendencies of people you get your advise from. Of course Cecil is going to trash Moreno, he lives in Denver!
Its your own fault if you messed this up. Knews of Moreno starting came out before gametime.
Relax guys. This is fantasy football... unanticipated things like this happen all the time. In actuality, I imagine this is partly why many of us play the game: it is unpredictable, which when it comes down to it, is fun!
Contrary to what many of you may think, the sky is not falling! FBG is right more times than not. FBG gave us the intel that they had. They are not freaking genies. Take it easy.
Thanks to Bloom, Waldman, Bramel, and Lammey for all the hard work and hours you put into this hobby, in order to serve us. While there are no "experts" in fantasy football, in my opinion, you guys are as close as it comes.
Contrary to what many of you may think, the sky is not falling! FBG is right more times than not. FBG gave us the intel that they had. They are not freaking genies. Take it easy.
Thanks to Bloom, Waldman, Bramel, and Lammey for all the hard work and hours you put into this hobby, in order to serve us. While there are no "experts" in fantasy football, in my opinion, you guys are as close as it comes.
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HurryUpSundays
Footballguy
With all due respect, the bottom line is Cecil simply blew this one.
Big time.
Big time.
Spot on.
ICON211
Footballguy
Good lord you would think these guys are first responders by some of the stuff that people write.
Macdaddy_2004
Footballguy
I love Cecil but yeah he pimped Hillman pretty hard - but I am guessing Fox didn't show his hand at all and Cecil was going by what his eyes were showing him.Also I'd like to note he did mention that Knowshown "COULD" have value and that he seemed hungry and determined to get on the field.
Runningman
Footballguy
So that is why he has been inactive for the past 6 weeks or so
? From what I have seen hillman and ball have both looked better than Moreno. Blocking is about the only area where he is better, but as someone said, he really didn't spend all that much time blocking. Looks to me that Fox is just more comfortable with a veteran in there.
moleculo
Footballguy
it's also possible that Hillman would have had a bigger role had Denver built either a big lead or a big deficit. Neither happened. Look at the games that Hillman had double-digit carries in:
vs oak: 10 carries, 5 in 4th quarter. Denver won 37-6
vs NO: 14 carries, 4 in 4th qtr. Denver won 34-14
vs SD: 12 carries, 6 in 4th qtr. Denver won 30-23, but the score was closer than the game acutally was.
In all other games, Hillman had 5 carries or less.
vs oak: 10 carries, 5 in 4th quarter. Denver won 37-6
vs NO: 14 carries, 4 in 4th qtr. Denver won 34-14
vs SD: 12 carries, 6 in 4th qtr. Denver won 30-23, but the score was closer than the game acutally was.
In all other games, Hillman had 5 carries or less.
Runningman
Footballguy
Yeah, they give opinions on the internet and radio. I'm sure they have enough sense not to take themselves to seriously. Listening to Cecil on his Sunday morning show here in Denver, I think he gets it that what he does is primarily entertainment.Runningman
Footballguy
Its definitely established that Fox isn't using Hillman unless the game aint on the line.
This thread is funny. Do Cecil lammey and fbg have future telling crystal balls that I don't know about? If so where do I get me one of those?? These guys are humans people, not cyborgs. They are wrong...they are wrong A LOT. They whiff on players and also hit on players like marcel Reece, who they tagged as "the raiders rb to own if McFadden Goes down".
What we are talking about here is a bunch of dudes who have played ff format years and loved the game so much that they made careers out of it. Does that mean they are always right? Every one of these guys is in like 10-30 leagues if not more and I guarantee you for every Super Bowl they win they finish in the bottom 3rd in 3 others.
Projecting the future is always a guessing game. Fbg doesn't know what will happen 5 minutes from now in the football world any more than you or I do. They had an opinion on hillman and Moreno and they stuck to that opinion and they were wrong. It happens.
To all the guys blasting fbg on this thread I ask you: have you see gambled an lost? Bet on a sporting event and lost even though you felt certain of the outcome and that your analysis was sound?
Ff is gambling. It's betting. Fbg is no better at it than any other very experienced ff player who obsesses or the game like they do.
The information on Moreno was out there. I did not have him on my roster until 12pm Sunday. I heard a rumor that he was going to start and I acted first asked questions later. I picked him up andthen I investigated. I saw lammeys opinion and ten I used my own brain to think through the situation, unbiased. I read news reports of fox and manning gushing about Moreno in practice. I knew that Moreno is good with the blitz pick up and hillman struggles in that area and that the broncos out a premium on protecting manning. I know that lance ball is a decent rb but nothing special. I know that Moreno when healthy is a very good rb that has proven it for several years. I knew that Moreno was healthy yesterday. He started the year as the backup to mcgahee and lost that job due to a careless fumble. He went into fox's dog house. Hillman in the meant time really didn't light the world on fire and struggled in pass pro.
Moreno was named the starter over 30 minutes prior to game time. The hillman owners chose to view that news with rise colored glasses. So did fbg. I also heard Andy Behrens for yahoo say "I wouldn't put much cred into who is starting I think hillman will see the bulk of the carries".
I listened to and read all other opinions and then at the end o it all I FORMED MY OWN and stuck Moreno into my flex. Was I nervous about it? Hell yeah! Moreno is made of glass and has screwed me before. But he is in a Payton manning led defense and against the chiefs? And starting? It was too tempting not to go that way.
The writing was on the wall for ANYONE to read as long as you took an unbiased approach to it.
What we are talking about here is a bunch of dudes who have played ff format years and loved the game so much that they made careers out of it. Does that mean they are always right? Every one of these guys is in like 10-30 leagues if not more and I guarantee you for every Super Bowl they win they finish in the bottom 3rd in 3 others.
Projecting the future is always a guessing game. Fbg doesn't know what will happen 5 minutes from now in the football world any more than you or I do. They had an opinion on hillman and Moreno and they stuck to that opinion and they were wrong. It happens.
To all the guys blasting fbg on this thread I ask you: have you see gambled an lost? Bet on a sporting event and lost even though you felt certain of the outcome and that your analysis was sound?
Ff is gambling. It's betting. Fbg is no better at it than any other very experienced ff player who obsesses or the game like they do.
The information on Moreno was out there. I did not have him on my roster until 12pm Sunday. I heard a rumor that he was going to start and I acted first asked questions later. I picked him up andthen I investigated. I saw lammeys opinion and ten I used my own brain to think through the situation, unbiased. I read news reports of fox and manning gushing about Moreno in practice. I knew that Moreno is good with the blitz pick up and hillman struggles in that area and that the broncos out a premium on protecting manning. I know that lance ball is a decent rb but nothing special. I know that Moreno when healthy is a very good rb that has proven it for several years. I knew that Moreno was healthy yesterday. He started the year as the backup to mcgahee and lost that job due to a careless fumble. He went into fox's dog house. Hillman in the meant time really didn't light the world on fire and struggled in pass pro.
Moreno was named the starter over 30 minutes prior to game time. The hillman owners chose to view that news with rise colored glasses. So did fbg. I also heard Andy Behrens for yahoo say "I wouldn't put much cred into who is starting I think hillman will see the bulk of the carries".
I listened to and read all other opinions and then at the end o it all I FORMED MY OWN and stuck Moreno into my flex. Was I nervous about it? Hell yeah! Moreno is made of glass and has screwed me before. But he is in a Payton manning led defense and against the chiefs? And starting? It was too tempting not to go that way.
The writing was on the wall for ANYONE to read as long as you took an unbiased approach to it.
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