*** Official Russia vs. Ukraine Discussion - Invasion has begun *** (8 Viewers)

[djmich]

Europe riding on US security guarantees should move on from that paradigm. The US is not the ally to Europe that it once was. This will likely have an effect on the social services in European countries. Hopefully it will spur efficiencies and not simply erase the social safety net in favor of higher defense spending.

Not sure efficiency and Europe can be used in the same sentence.

 

[fatness]

It'll be god-awful sad if the US reaches an agreement with Ukraine for their minerals/money, then walks away saying "see ya".

 

[ghostguy123]

ABC News - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's team is working on an updated agreement between Ukraine and the United States for Ukraine to agree to give the U.S. revenue from some of Ukraine's most valuable resources, a Ukrainian official told ABC News.

I haven't kept up with the rare earth thing. So now the US doesn't want the minerals at all, it just wants the money from their sale?

Joint investment fund from what I understand. Not too many details available

National Security Advisor Michael Waltz sat down with Megyn Kelly yesterday and commented Ukraine has the ability to provide United States with 100% of our aluminum needs with a little investment.

If it's a true mining JV then it also serves to reinforce any formal security guarantee.

A substantial U.S. financial stake and a few thousand American citizens spread throughout the Ukrainian countryside on a long-term basis will give Putin pause prior to contemplating another invasion.

Yep. Feels like a good way to help provide a deterrent without us actually using troops.

I don't think this would happen, but lets say hypothetically Russia invades again and kills a thousand American citizens who are there working.

What would happen?

 

[Redwes25]

Zelensky just said he would step down for peace or NATO for Ukraine. He clearly just wants the best for his country and people. He is no dictator as some US leaders have claimed.

x.com

x.com

 

[The Z Machine]

Zelensky just said he would step down for peace or NATO for Ukraine. He clearly just wants the best for his country and people. He is no dictator as some US leaders have claimed.

x.com

x.com

Or maybe he is playing the long con here and will make Ukraine a one party state with full authority vested only in him when NATO doesn't agree with the plan.

 

[beer 30]

Feels like this should have been discussed in 1945?

They kinda did at Bretton Wood. The US committed to protecting the world in exchange for the US dollar becoming the worlds currency. There is certainly a lot more to it than that but that's it in a nutshell. I'm of the belief that this time has passed and we are in need of either new agreements or a draw down of US troops around the world. I don't think either present a particularly rosy picture for the US and/or the world but we (US) can't keep doing what we are doing.

Yep. Feels like a good way to help provide a deterrent without us actually using troops.

NATO without the weapons.

 

[rockaction]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/24/politics/us-joins-russia-ukraine-un-vote/index.html

U.S. joins Russia in refusing to vote for eta* voting against UN condemnation of Russia for starting war against Ukraine. Language about "starting war" and territorial integrity were the sticking points for the U.S. and Russia, who were both outvoted 93-2.

 

[The Z Machine]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/24/politics/us-joins-russia-ukraine-un-vote/index.html

U.S. joins Russia in refusing to vote for eta* voting against UN condemnation of Russia for starting war against Ukraine. Language about "starting war" and territorial integrity were the sticking points for the U.S. and Russia, who were both outvoted 93-2.

Totally ridiculous.

 

[[icon]]

Zelensky just said he would step down for peace or NATO for Ukraine. He clearly just wants the best for his country and people. He is no dictator as some US leaders have claimed.

x.com

x.com

Or maybe he is playing the long con here and will make Ukraine a one party state with full authority vested only in him when NATO doesn't agree with the plan.

What actions or statements by him back this claim in ANY way?

 

[[icon]]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/24/politics/us-joins-russia-ukraine-un-vote/index.html

U.S. joins Russia in refusing to vote for eta* voting against UN condemnation of Russia for starting war against Ukraine. Language about "starting war" and territorial integrity were the sticking points for the U.S. and Russia, who were both outvoted 93-2.

****ing embarrassed to be an American right now. Jesus Christ.

 

[The Z Machine]

Zelensky just said he would step down for peace or NATO for Ukraine. He clearly just wants the best for his country and people. He is no dictator as some US leaders have claimed.

x.com

x.com

Or maybe he is playing the long con here and will make Ukraine a one party state with full authority vested only in him when NATO doesn't agree with the plan.

What actions or statements by him back this claim in ANY way?

I was joking

 

[ChicoCat]

ABC News - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's team is working on an updated agreement between Ukraine and the United States for Ukraine to agree to give the U.S. revenue from some of Ukraine's most valuable resources, a Ukrainian official told ABC News.

I haven't kept up with the rare earth thing. So now the US doesn't want the minerals at all, it just wants the money from their sale?

Joint investment fund from what I understand. Not too many details available

National Security Advisor Michael Waltz sat down with Megyn Kelly yesterday and commented Ukraine has the ability to provide United States with 100% of our aluminum needs with a little investment.

If it's a true mining JV then it also serves to reinforce any formal security guarantee.

A substantial U.S. financial stake and a few thousand American citizens spread throughout the Ukrainian countryside on a long-term basis will give Putin pause prior to contemplating another invasion.

Yep. Feels like a good way to help provide a deterrent without us actually using troops.

I don't think this would happen, but lets say hypothetically Russia invades again and kills a thousand American citizens who are there working.

What would happen?

Bump.

 

[BassNBrew]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/24/politics/us-joins-russia-ukraine-un-vote/index.html

U.S. joins Russia in refusing to vote for eta* voting against UN condemnation of Russia for starting war against Ukraine. Language about "starting war" and territorial integrity were the sticking points for the U.S. and Russia, who were both outvoted 93-2.

****ing embarrassed to be an American right now. Jesus Christ.

I'm embarrassed to be a Footballguy and associated with people who continue to disregard the rules, get good threads shut down, and ignore the mods.

 

[Dezbelief]

Ukraine says it's taken the top spot in the race to make combat drones

Data on which country makes the most combat drones is unclear, but Ukraine is making millions of these things.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Dezbelief]

Blasting Tanks Into Flaming Wreckage, Ukrainian Drones Blunt A Yearlong Russian Offensive

But American intervention against Ukraine could undermine Ukrainian efforts.

www.forbes.com

 

[ghostguy123]

ABC News - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's team is working on an updated agreement between Ukraine and the United States for Ukraine to agree to give the U.S. revenue from some of Ukraine's most valuable resources, a Ukrainian official told ABC News.

I haven't kept up with the rare earth thing. So now the US doesn't want the minerals at all, it just wants the money from their sale?

Joint investment fund from what I understand. Not too many details available

National Security Advisor Michael Waltz sat down with Megyn Kelly yesterday and commented Ukraine has the ability to provide United States with 100% of our aluminum needs with a little investment.

If it's a true mining JV then it also serves to reinforce any formal security guarantee.

A substantial U.S. financial stake and a few thousand American citizens spread throughout the Ukrainian countryside on a long-term basis will give Putin pause prior to contemplating another invasion.

Yep. Feels like a good way to help provide a deterrent without us actually using troops.

I don't think this would happen, but lets say hypothetically Russia invades again and kills a thousand American citizens who are there working.

What would happen?

Bump.

Why did you bump this? Something happen?

 

[Dezbelief]

Ukraine approves Vidmak drone system to target Russian vehicles

"These high-speed FPV drones are capable of chasing down any wheeled vehicles of the invaders," the Defense Ministry said.

kyivindependent.com

 

[Redwes25]

Ukraine agrees minerals deal with US

Kyiv hopes agreement on jointly exploring resources will improve relations with Trump administration

www.ft.com

 

[Dezbelief]

Ukrainian drones reportedly strike Russian refinery in Ryazan Oblast for 3rd time in 2025

The Ryazan Oil Refining Company's facility was previously struck overnight on Jan. 24 and Jan. 26.

kyivindependent.com

 

[Stoneworker]

Great to see the mineral deal done. One step closer to peace

 

[Chadstroma]

Ukraine to get Tridon Mk2 air defense system from Sweden

Sweden is marking the third anniversary of Russia’s full-scale invasion by supplying Ukraine with $110 million worth of air defense systems. The latest military aid package includes the BAE Systems Tridon Mk2, an advanced 40mm naval gun mounted on a flatbed truck, which Ukraine will receive for...

defence-blog.com

 

[Chadstroma]

Ukraine has enough weapons to last until summer without US aid - WSJ

Read more

newsukraine.rbc.ua

 

[Chadstroma]

Russia Wants New Tu-160 Bombers. There's Just 1 Problem With That

Russia’s Tu-160 bomber modernization faces delays as sanctions and workforce shortages hinder production. Can Moscow sustain its long-range aviation ambitions?

www.19fortyfive.com

 

[Chadstroma]

I would recommend picking up listening to the Shawn Ryan podcast for those interested in this area of topics. He is an ex-SEAL teams guy and has a lot of ex-operators on but also many others. I started listening on my trip from Chicago to Atlanta and back and marathon listened to it over the roughly 24 hours of driving I did. Fascinating interviews that give a ton of insight in many subjects that those interested in this thread would likely also find interesting.

 

[[icon]]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/24/politics/us-joins-russia-ukraine-un-vote/index.html

U.S. joins Russia in refusing to vote for eta* voting against UN condemnation of Russia for starting war against Ukraine. Language about "starting war" and territorial integrity were the sticking points for the U.S. and Russia, who were both outvoted 93-2.

****ing embarrassed to be an American right now. Jesus Christ.

I'm embarrassed to be a Footballguy and associated with people who continue to disregard the rules, get good threads shut down, and ignore the mods.

If the mods want to ban me for that statement, so be it. I’m barely here these days anyway. I stand by what I said.

I’ll withhold excitement about the minerals deal until I have a chance to look at the full terms, but it best include some pretty stout security guarantees and not preclude NATO or EU membership.

The first pass at this deal was a ****ing joke and DOA, so forgive my hesitance here.

 

[[icon]]

I would recommend picking up listening to the Shawn Ryan podcast for those interested in this area of topics. He is an ex-SEAL teams guy and has a lot of ex-operators on but also many others. I started listening on my trip from Chicago to Atlanta and back and marathon listened to it over the roughly 24 hours of driving I did. Fascinating interviews that give a ton of insight in many subjects that those interested in this thread would likely also find interesting.

Shawn Ryan is a pretty good listen but I’d go ahead and keep a jar of grains of salt handy. That dude crossed the bridge into the neighborhood of make believe on occasion.

 

[ghostguy123]

If possible, since I've really never looked into this, could someone give me a super quick tutorial regarding NATO? As in, is Ukraine trying to get into NATO? Is Russia???
If you have any super political stance there you could PM me so you dont get banned, lol. I'm always open to hearing points of view from any side.

 

[BassNBrew]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/24/politics/us-joins-russia-ukraine-un-vote/index.html

U.S. joins Russia in refusing to vote for eta* voting against UN condemnation of Russia for starting war against Ukraine. Language about "starting war" and territorial integrity were the sticking points for the U.S. and Russia, who were both outvoted 93-2.

****ing embarrassed to be an American right now. Jesus Christ.

I'm embarrassed to be a Footballguy and associated with people who continue to disregard the rules, get good threads shut down, and ignore the mods.

If the mods want to ban me for that statement, so be it. I’m barely here these days anyway. I stand by what I said.

I’ll withhold excitement about the minerals deal until I have a chance to look at the full terms, but it best include some pretty stout security guarantees and not preclude NATO or EU membership.

The first pass at this deal was a ****ing joke and DOA, so forgive my hesitance here.

Well since you're barely here anymore I'll fill you in. They don't ban people who ignore the no politics rule, they just lock the thread for everyone. Easier for them business wise as they don't have to answer complaints and hate mail from people being banned. We've lost the Gov't Employee thread and the Hamas/Israel thread because people ignore their repeated requests not to push the line.

Simple ask of everyone, please don't get this thread locked too.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

If possible, since I've really never looked into this, could someone give me a super quick tutorial regarding NATO? As in, is Ukraine trying to get into NATO? Is Russia???
If you have any super political stance there you could PM me so you dont get banned, lol. I'm always open to hearing points of view from any side.

Short story is that Russia feels very threatened by NATO as it (read: USA) has admitted a couple countries it probably shouldn't have (I forget which off the top of my head) that are close to the Russian border and even the slightest implication that Ukraine would be admitted would likely cause the Russian bear to get anger level to about eleven.

 

[Dezbelief]

If possible, since I've really never looked into this, could someone give me a super quick tutorial regarding NATO? As in, is Ukraine trying to get into NATO? Is Russia???
If you have any super political stance there you could PM me so you dont get banned, lol. I'm always open to hearing points of view from any side.

Ukraine would love to get into NATO. The USSR was basically the reason NATO was formed and as such Russia and NATO are arch enemies.

 

[FarFromHome]

If possible, since I've really never looked into this, could someone give me a super quick tutorial regarding NATO? As in, is Ukraine trying to get into NATO? Is Russia???
If you have any super political stance there you could PM me so you dont get banned, lol. I'm always open to hearing points of view from any side.

Short story is that Russia feels very threatened by NATO as it (read: USA) has admitted a couple countries it probably shouldn't have (I forget which off the top of my head) that are close to the Russian border and even the slightest implication that Ukraine would be admitted would likely cause the Russian bear to get anger level to about eleven.

Yep. Besides greed and Putin being an evil thug the idea of Ukraine joining NATO is why we are at this point. Imo

 

[Joe Schmo]

The US and NATO are setting up a bulwark against Putin's quest to expand Mah Russia into pre-Soviet collapse borders. Putin is quite open about retaking land he thinks is rightfully Russian and views this quest as a way to show strength to allow Russia to keep it's seat at the big kid table of world powers as their dominance had waned some. Ukraine having NATO membership allows other NATO nations to come to their aid in time of war should they be attacked, as they have been. Putin says "eff you, stay in your lane NATO".

 

[beer 30]

I would recommend picking up listening to the Shawn Ryan podcast for those interested in this area of topics. He is an ex-SEAL teams guy and has a lot of ex-operators on but also many others. I started listening on my trip from Chicago to Atlanta and back and marathon listened to it over the roughly 24 hours of driving I did. Fascinating interviews that give a ton of insight in many subjects that those interested in this thread would likely also find interesting.

Shawn Ryan is a pretty good listen but I’d go ahead and keep a jar of grains of salt handy. That dude crossed the bridge into the neighborhood of make believe on occasion.

Was going to caution the same. Shawn has some interesting guests on that are legit and bring good info. He also has some whack jobs. Through it all, he just nods, fake laughs and doesn't really do much of insightful interviewing. What I do like about him is he doesn't constantly interrupt the guest, he lets them talk which is refreshing. Any of his interviews with Sarah Adams always make the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

 

[Redwes25]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/24/politics/us-joins-russia-ukraine-un-vote/index.html

U.S. joins Russia in refusing to vote for eta* voting against UN condemnation of Russia for starting war against Ukraine. Language about "starting war" and territorial integrity were the sticking points for the U.S. and Russia, who were both outvoted 93-2.

****ing embarrassed to be an American right now. Jesus Christ.

I'm embarrassed to be a Footballguy and associated with people who continue to disregard the rules, get good threads shut down, and ignore the mods.

If the mods want to ban me for that statement, so be it. I’m barely here these days anyway. I stand by what I said.

I’ll withhold excitement about the minerals deal until I have a chance to look at the full terms, but it best include some pretty stout security guarantees and not preclude NATO or EU membership.

The first pass at this deal was a ****ing joke and DOA, so forgive my hesitance here.

Well since you're barely here anymore I'll fill you in. They don't ban people who ignore the no politics rule, they just lock the thread for everyone. Easier for them business wise as they don't have to answer complaints and hate mail from people being banned. We've lost the Gov't Employee thread and the Hamas/Israel thread because people ignore their repeated requests not to push the line.

Simple ask of everyone, please don't get this thread locked too.

I agree - I really don't want this thread locked as it is would be a loss. Govt Employee thread was a huge loss for me as well since my wife is one.

 

[The Z Machine]

If possible, since I've really never looked into this, could someone give me a super quick tutorial regarding NATO? As in, is Ukraine trying to get into NATO? Is Russia???
If you have any super political stance there you could PM me so you dont get banned, lol. I'm always open to hearing points of view from any side.

Short story is that Russia feels very threatened by NATO as it (read: USA) has admitted a couple countries it probably shouldn't have (I forget which off the top of my head) that are close to the Russian border and even the slightest implication that Ukraine would be admitted would likely cause the Russian bear to get anger level to about eleven.

Yep. Besides greed and Putin being an evil thug the idea of Ukraine joining NATO is why we are at this point. Imo

I think you're leaving out "empire building" by Russia.

 

[ChicoCat]

ABC News - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's team is working on an updated agreement between Ukraine and the United States for Ukraine to agree to give the U.S. revenue from some of Ukraine's most valuable resources, a Ukrainian official told ABC News.

I haven't kept up with the rare earth thing. So now the US doesn't want the minerals at all, it just wants the money from their sale?

Joint investment fund from what I understand. Not too many details available

National Security Advisor Michael Waltz sat down with Megyn Kelly yesterday and commented Ukraine has the ability to provide United States with 100% of our aluminum needs with a little investment.

If it's a true mining JV then it also serves to reinforce any formal security guarantee.

A substantial U.S. financial stake and a few thousand American citizens spread throughout the Ukrainian countryside on a long-term basis will give Putin pause prior to contemplating another invasion.

Yep. Feels like a good way to help provide a deterrent without us actually using troops.

I don't think this would happen, but lets say hypothetically Russia invades again and kills a thousand American citizens who are there working.

What would happen?

Bump.

Why did you bump this? Something happen?

I'm bumping your question. I'm interested in hearing an answer.

 

[ghostguy123]

ABC News - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's team is working on an updated agreement between Ukraine and the United States for Ukraine to agree to give the U.S.

Bump.

Why did you bump this? Something happen?

I'm bumping your question. I'm interested in hearing an answer.

Gotcha. I'm not sure anyone KNOWS the answer, but I'm guessing there'd be some bombs dropped, and not the kind rappers drop.

 

[Dezbelief]

Ukraine drone swarm target's Russia's biggest Black Sea oil port

Ukraine continues to target Russia's energy facilities after striking a port on the coast of the Black Sea in a drone strike overnight.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Stoneworker]

ABC News - Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's team is working on an updated agreement between Ukraine and the United States for Ukraine to agree to give the U.S. revenue from some of Ukraine's most valuable resources, a Ukrainian official told ABC News.

I haven't kept up with the rare earth thing. So now the US doesn't want the minerals at all, it just wants the money from their sale?

Joint investment fund from what I understand. Not too many details available

National Security Advisor Michael Waltz sat down with Megyn Kelly yesterday and commented Ukraine has the ability to provide United States with 100% of our aluminum needs with a little investment.

If it's a true mining JV then it also serves to reinforce any formal security guarantee.

A substantial U.S. financial stake and a few thousand American citizens spread throughout the Ukrainian countryside on a long-term basis will give Putin pause prior to contemplating another invasion.

Yep. Feels like a good way to help provide a deterrent without us actually using troops.

I don't think this would happen, but lets say hypothetically Russia invades again and kills a thousand American citizens who are there working.

What would happen?

Bump.

Why did you bump this? Something happen?

I'm bumping your question. I'm interested in hearing an answer.

You're just baiting people to turn the thread political. Quite sad

 

[ghostguy123]

Bump.

Why did you bump this? Something happen?

I'm bumping your question. I'm interested in hearing an answer.

The reply is political, I believe the two different parties would react differently.

Hmmm. Not sure what it matters what one of the parties would do if they are not in power.

 

[ghostguy123]

So like, wasn't there supposed to be a cease fire or something going on?
Not sure how there is going to be much progress in negotiations if there's ongoing drone strikes.

 

[Redwes25]

So like, wasn't there supposed to be a cease fire or something going on?
Not sure how there is going to be much progress in negotiations if there's ongoing drone strikes.

We really aren't near a cease fire, I think we will get months of negotiations before a cease fire deal and even longer for a true peace deal. I can also imagine US/Russia agreeing to a deal but Ukraine and Europe won't agree to it. Honestly, not sure how any of this plays out.

 

[Dezbelief]

So like, wasn't there supposed to be a cease fire or something going on?
Not sure how there is going to be much progress in negotiations if there's ongoing drone strikes.

We really aren't near a cease fire, I think we will get months of negotiations before a cease fire deal and even longer for a true peace deal. I can also imagine US/Russia agreeing to a deal but Ukraine and Europe won't agree to it. Honestly, not sure how any of this plays out.

Both sides are still throwing everything they can into the fight.

 

[ghostguy123]

So like, wasn't there supposed to be a cease fire or something going on?
Not sure how there is going to be much progress in negotiations if there's ongoing drone strikes.

We really aren't near a cease fire, I think we will get months of negotiations before a cease fire deal and even longer for a true peace deal. I can also imagine US/Russia agreeing to a deal but Ukraine and Europe won't agree to it. Honestly, not sure how any of this plays out.

Both sides are still throwing everything they can into the fight.

Ugh. man, that's gotta be tough for the citizens, especially of Ukraine. Wondering if you are gonna get bombed all the time. Can't be a lot of productive sleep goin around

 

[Joe Schmo]

So like, wasn't there supposed to be a cease fire or something going on?
Not sure how there is going to be much progress in negotiations if there's ongoing drone strikes.

We really aren't near a cease fire, I think we will get months of negotiations before a cease fire deal and even longer for a true peace deal. I can also imagine US/Russia agreeing to a deal but Ukraine and Europe won't agree to it. Honestly, not sure how any of this plays out.

Both sides are still throwing everything they can into the fight.

Ugh. man, that's gotta be tough for the citizens, especially of Ukraine. Wondering if you are gonna get bombed all the time. Can't be a lot of productive sleep goin around

The blitzkrieg of WWII, Desert Storms, Berlin WWII...it's got to be stressful.

 

[ghostguy123]

3 years of this?? Sorry for all my recent posts, I'm pretty new to even paying any actual attention to any of this.

 

[Redwes25]

3 years of this?? Sorry for all my recent posts, I'm pretty new to even paying any actual attention to any of this.

Try 10 years. This really started when Russia invaded and seized Crimea and then had a bunch of proxy’s (some of the Russian special forces undercover) start a revolt in two provinces that border Russia.

 

[FarFromHome]

3 years of this?? Sorry for all my recent posts, I'm pretty new to even paying any actual attention to any of this.

Try 10 years. This really started when Russia invaded and seized Crimea and then had a bunch of proxy’s (some of the Russian special forces undercover) start a revolt in two provinces that border Russia.

Or back to 1991 when Ukraine declares itself an Independent state. Or back to post ww1, 1917 when it was fighting for independence again. Or. You get it. Ukraine, like most of the those countries in this area have struggled forever. Been tough.

 

[Redwes25]

3 years of this?? Sorry for all my recent posts, I'm pretty new to even paying any actual attention to any of this.

Try 10 years. This really started when Russia invaded and seized Crimea and then had a bunch of proxy’s (some of the Russian special forces undercover) start a revolt in two provinces that border Russia.

Or back to 1991 when Ukraine declares itself an Independent state. Or back to post ww1, 1917 when it was fighting for independence again. Or. You get it. Ukraine, like most of the those countries in this area have struggled forever. Been tough.

Putin definitely thinks it isn’t an independent country and is really just part of Russia.

 

[Navin Johnson]

3 years of this?? Sorry for all my recent posts, I'm pretty new to even paying any actual attention to any of this.

Try 10 years. This really started when Russia invaded and seized Crimea and then had a bunch of proxy’s (some of the Russian special forces undercover) start a revolt in two provinces that border Russia.

Or back to when US intelligence instigated a coup to have Yanukovych illegally removed.