Wrong.
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*** Official Russia vs. Ukraine Discussion - Invasion has begun *** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jayrod
- Start date
Wrong.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Not to highjack this important thread but...
As much as I enjoy the operators and CIA etc on there it is refreshing to get other people and hear things I would never ever hear otherwise... whether I believe it or not. I am always game to have my horizons pushed out further and challenge my worldview or beliefs. I am not much of a conspiracy or UFO type guy- I use to be addicted to the History Channel back in the day and then basically stopped watching it because of all the UFO's built the Pyramids stuff so it isn't really up my alley so to speak but I still enjoyed the interview with the guy about remote viewing not too long ago.
I think Shawn does a great job of letting the guests talk and then asking prompting questions or redirect at times but really let's the guests tell their stories... and whether it is an operator that is now running a non-profit to save people from sex trafficking or Peter Berg talking about movie stuff or the dude about remote viewing.... I have gone through a bunch of episodes since my marathon listening on my long drive and have not yet come away with "well, that was a waste of time". You get glimpses into a world most of us really don't know about and it if heavily concetrated on military, national security, terrorism, geopolitics, etc.
Big fan.... and this is from someone who doesn't much every enjoy talk radio or listen to any other podcast. The nearest thing that I have got hooked on at all is the Pat McAfee show.
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
Finland to provide Ukraine with $691 million in military equipment
"The products will be delivered to Ukraine as part of future material aid packages," the news release from Finland's Defense Ministry noted, without specifying a timeline.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c625ex282zzt
Trump tells Zelensky 'make a deal or we're out' in angry White House meeting
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
This was likely the plan from day one
I'm sure it was and it is appalling.
the moops
Footballguy
Holy ****
See the video, it's worse.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
Ukraine ‘delivered a high-precision strike’ destroying Russian drone launch site - London Business News | Londonlovesbusiness.com
Ukraine delivered a high-precision strike, destroying a Russian drone launch site in Kopani, reducing threats to civilians.
londonlovesbusiness.com
TennesseeJed
Footballguy
I don't think Ukraine is a current ally of the country.
Its hard for the country to be allied with two countries that are warring against each other, and we have picked a different team to back.
Vance got pissed because he could see Zelensky rolling his eyes when Trump was talking. Then it all went to hell. Putin has to doing a dance right now.
Exactly.
zoonation
Footballguy
except the theatre of it was the point. that was a complete and total ambush.
Worm
slimy ninja
I would assert that this is a horrible take.
The citizens of our country deserve to see the truth of what the United States administration is doing.
This is not diplomacy. There are only two options left for us all to believe.
1. The president of the US is openly committing extortion
2. We are fully aligned with Russia
There are no other alternatives and the more our leaders put their foot in their mouth in public the better.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Full clip of exchange if you haven’t seen it yet. If you are a supporter of Ukraine this probably couldn’t have gone worse.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Shut the hell up about anything that is political. Seriously. Do you guys not understand we have been close to this thread being shut down several times?
You guys are going to get this shut down. SHUT UP
You guys are going to get this shut down. SHUT UP
ghostguy123
Footballguy
He probably will........unless Ukraine makes a deal ASAP
Jaysus
Good times!
As a supporter of America this couldn't have gone worse.
P.S. @Chadomer this thread is done, yo.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Please don't post this. It will get the thread closed. Moderators don't have patience to just clean-up the thread (which I understand). There is a lot of good information that gets posted by various folks who are active and want news updates and would hate that disappear.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Not sure if I heard correctly, but did Zelensky say he DOESNT want a ceasefire?
eighsse2
Footballguy
I watched the meeting, but I don't know much about diplomacy and such. What got things upset there toward the end? Ukraine wants help, military and/or diplomatic, the US wants minerals in return. Zelenskyy started saying something about how it's been going on since 2014. Then things went crazy. 
I watched the meeting, but I don't know much about diplomacy and such. What got things upset there toward the end? Ukraine wants help, military and/or diplomatic, the US wants minerals in return. Zelenskyy started saying something about how it's been going on since 2014. Then things went crazy.
This thing is going to be analyzed more than the Zapruder film over the next few days.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I wish I knew more about the whole thing and followed more closely from the start, but it's definitely been interesting since Trump took office.
I guess, what exactly does Zelenskyy want from us? To be an equal partner in a war against Russia? To just keep giving them billions of dollars every year to keep fighting until Russia ends up taking them over in 5-10-20 years anyway?
I mean how much can we do before it DOES turn into a WWIII type situation?
The exchange there was something I've sure never seen before between world leaders. I was also wondering if Zelenskyys grasp of the English language is good enough for an exchange of that sort (I genuinely don't know).
I guess, what exactly does Zelenskyy want from us? To be an equal partner in a war against Russia? To just keep giving them billions of dollars every year to keep fighting until Russia ends up taking them over in 5-10-20 years anyway?
I mean how much can we do before it DOES turn into a WWIII type situation?
The exchange there was something I've sure never seen before between world leaders. I was also wondering if Zelenskyys grasp of the English language is good enough for an exchange of that sort (I genuinely don't know).
HellToupee
Footballguy
With all the help that has been given the guy couldn’t just go through the motions. He had to roll his eyes and make faces. Next time the guy should wear a suite and tie and bring his shine box. Doesn’t matter who the POTUS is
sho nuff
Footballguy
I took as not with out guarantees…he rightfully doesn’t trust a Putin led ceasefire and the agreement negotiated with the US did not contain the security guarantees he needs.
Zelensky has been asking for security guarantees such as weaponry and potentially NATO troops as part of the deal. Trump basically said nah, Putin and I are good and he would never break an agreement with me. Trump is asking for Zelensky to sign away rights to valuable resources and get nothing in return all while allowing Russia to keep the land, minerals, and port, they've already gotten through the invasion. Ukraine gives up minerals, freedom and land, Russia gets what it wants and Trump makes money.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I'm not a diplomat but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night - okay I didn't do that either but anyway, just speculating about a hypothesis...
It looks to me like Trump thought he had a done deal for peace but Zelenskyy said something to the effect of "Well I can't guarantee that, but I'll think about it. In the meantime I'll be glad to take your money."
It looks to me like Trump thought he had a done deal for peace but Zelenskyy said something to the effect of "Well I can't guarantee that, but I'll think about it. In the meantime I'll be glad to take your money."
eighsse2
Footballguy
Extortion? Seriously? And surgeons commit extortion when they want payment? Admittedly as I said above, I don't know much about diplomacy, but that seems way too extreme of a term.
Zelensky is trying to protect his country while trump is looking to score some treasure without offering anything in return. It was a squeeze job.
In my opinion, the link to describe what happened in the meeting is absolutely necessary because it's part of the discussion of the war. But it has to stop there. Now that we know what happened, the discussions have to be about the different scenarios, what happens going forward, etc. That's all we can talk about, again, in my opinion.
It CAN'T be about the motives of the administration or anything political. Those comments have to be left out. We can thread the so-called needle because it's been done in other threads, like the economy thread. It just takes a little effort. This is a very important thread and it would be a crying shame to have it shut down.
This is just one man's opinion.
It CAN'T be about the motives of the administration or anything political. Those comments have to be left out. We can thread the so-called needle because it's been done in other threads, like the economy thread. It just takes a little effort. This is a very important thread and it would be a crying shame to have it shut down.
This is just one man's opinion.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
That's probably a foregone conclusion anyway, isn't it?
I mean, do "we" keep going until Russia gives up what they fought for - and do we actively kick them out? That's not going to get done by Ukraine alone and I'm not interested in contributing actual manpower to do that.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Nothing in return? One could say we've offered quite a bit of aid and money and got nothing in return.
I mean, the situation sucks, but let's say Ukraine does lose land and mineral resources. They also get to stay a country, which is probably important.
Also, Trump makes money? Like, Trump personally......or the US
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
ooofff
Dezbelief
Footballguy
Ukraine has believed from the early days that Russia would use a ceasefire to move troops and equipment to the frontline and then break the ceasefire.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
But he's trying to do it on another man's/country's dime - namely the U.S. Should we NOT get something in return?
The United States made approximately $672 billion (in today's dollars) off the Lend Lease program pre-WWII. Was that a squeeze job?
If there is a genuine attempt at brokering a peace then Russia needs to make concessions as well. As it stands, the US has already had peace talks with Russia while excluding Ukraine and Europe and so far there is no talk of what Russia has to give up in return.
Watching todays disaster looked more like a cheap Sopranos episode than actual diplomacy in action so I stand by my assessment. If the US approached with an even handed deal and not some lop sided slop, then yes, we could get some return for out assistance.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Why? There's no incentive for them to "give up" anything since they essentially winning.
And perhaps (and I don't really know, truly) the meeting with Russia was to gauge what they were willing to do? Brokering a deal doesn't mean that all sides are represented at all times.
This is the reason Zelensky is looking for security guarantees. As Dez pointed out, Putin is not to be trusted that he won't invade again after rearming and resetting his troops. If there is no concessions on regaining lost land then at least there needs to be assurance that future encroachment if off the table.
Redwes25
Footballguy
Basically Zelensky was saying that Putin ignored the cease fire that was signed in 2019 and they went nuts. Think basically because that put Trump in a bad light as he was President when it was signed. A simple ceasefire really doesn't help out Ukraine as Russia has broken them numerous times (see Minsk I and II from 2014 and 2015).I watched the meeting, but I don't know much about diplomacy and such. What got things upset there toward the end? Ukraine wants help, military and/or diplomatic, the US wants minerals in return. Zelenskyy started saying something about how it's been going on since 2014. Then things went crazy.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Does he have any leverage to even really ask for ANYTHING??
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