*** Official Russia vs. Ukraine Discussion - Invasion has begun *** (6 Viewers)

[Ostro]

what means this?

It means russia is gonna have a very hard time importing and exporting anything that involves other countries currency's.

Sounds like russia is gonna be the worlds first 4th world country. lol

 

[UOFI_316]

Poland might have made a good point here. 'Yeah, yeah, Poland send those MiGs over, and we will backfill.'

Poland said, 'mmm, here you go, we will drop them at your base, you can give them a tune up, and send them to Ukraine.'

'oh, we don't want to escalate' 

'then why the eff were you telling me it was ok to send them to Ukraine?!?'

 This is just a guess personally. No one wants to be the ones to fly them into Ukraine. But at the same time: if anyone was really worried about Russia starting WW3 over some jets, they wouldn't want anyone sending them to Ukraine. 

The answer, obviously, is to send 27 green tractors to Poland to tow them back to Ukraine, but does anyone ask me? No. 

So if the big issue is over who flies the planes to the Ukraine air base, why can't the Ukrainian pilots just go to the airbase and fly them over themselves?  US can then make completely unrelated agreements with whatever countries provide the MIGs that we will "sell" them some of our used F15s or whatever because we noticed they had run out of planes.   It was my understanding that all the other weapons that are being provided to Ukraine are all being moved to the border and then Ukraine brings them across.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Quite a bit of Nazi influence still rampant in Ukraine.  

https://www.opindia.com/2022/03/nato-shares-image-of-ukrainian-soldier-wearing-nazi-insignia-deletes-it-later/

https://en.as.com/en/2022/03/08/latest_news/1646777690_106699.html

Just curious where you found the links to these news stories.

I don’t speak for Phil, but just a couple relevant points:

• OpIndia is not, IMO, a credible source. But I would invite anyone to just Google “Is OpIndia reliable?” and decide for themselves.

That said, there are a couple Nazi and neo-Nazi angles to Ukraine which are deserving of context.

Putin has been pushing a denazification agenda as rationalization for the invasion. This has been widely discredited by scores of news sources. I don’t think that’s up for debate.

Ukraine - like the United States and many other sovereign nations - does have, however minute, a white supremacy faction within its borders. 

Azov Battalion

There is a section in that Wiki article on their war crimes and they go fairly deep in explaining their neo-Nazi elements.

The Ukrainian woman depicted in the deleted NATO tweet was a member of this paramilitary group, which is now part of their National Guard.

the issue explained

_______________

In October 2019, members of the US House of Representatives requested that the Azov Battalion be classified as a Foreign Terrorist Organization by the US State Department, citing recent acts of right-wing violence such as the Christchurch mosque shootings earlier.

The State Department declined to do so - both under Trump and after Biden took office.

______________

I think it’s going to be difficult to discuss that specific aspect of the conflict in this thread. There is a companion thread in the PSF which is better suited for that.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Russian and Ukrainian history is fascinating. I wish I knew it as well as American or Western European history, but I’ve been trying to understand it better. I think it really helps give context to what is currently going on.

A week ago Russia launched a missile strike on a Ukrainian Holocaust Memorial in Kyiv.

Babyn Yar (aka Babi Yar) is the site of a ravine where the Einsatzgruppe - Nazi death squads - murdered 33,771 Ukrainian Jews. The massacre took place September 29-30, 1941.

________________

TimeGhost History, which runs a terrific WW2 YouTube channel, republished a video this week on Babyn Yar originally created a few years ago. It’s a tough watch but I know some will find learning more about it will give better context to understanding Red Russia / White Russia. Suffice to say Russia and the Ukraine have a painful history.

1.6M Ukrainians died fighting for the Red Army, and 3.7M Ukrainian civilians died during WW2 - including 1.5M Ukrainian Jews who perished in the Holocaust.

In the early 1930s, 3.5M Ukrainians were  starved to death by Stalin in the Holodomor.

It is difficult to comprehend what this region has been through in their history. It is heartbreaking to see what this sovereign nation is going through rn.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I don’t speak for Phil, but just a couple relevant points:

• OpIndia is not, IMO, a credible source. But I would invite anyone to just Google “Is OpIndia reliable?” and decide for themselves.

Yeah, that’s kinda why I’m asking. Neither source seems all that reputable to me and neither one seems like a source that the vast majority of people are regularly visiting. 

So it seems likely that Phil came across both of those linked through another source, in which case I’m interested in the reliability and any potential agenda of that source because it just seems weird to drop 2 links to questionable sources leveling Nazism charges against Ukraine without making any further point. So I’m really just kind of trying to figure out what the motivation was there really.

 

[massraider]

I don’t speak for Phil, but just a couple relevant points:

• OpIndia is not, IMO, a credible source. But I would invite anyone to just Google “Is OpIndia reliable?” and decide for themselves.

That said, there are a couple Nazi and neo-Nazi angles to Ukraine which are deserving of context.

Putin has been pushing a denazification agenda as rationalization for the invasion. This has been widely discredited by scores of news sources. I don’t think that’s up for debate.

Ukraine - like the United States and many other sovereign nations - does have, however minute, a white supremacy faction within its borders. 

Azov Battalion

Yes, you can find YouTube vids about these guys. They were ultra-nationalists (at least in 2014). I think it's unclear what their leadership is like right now. Either way, they were a volunteer militia, that has been fighting under the umbrella of the Ukrainian army. Azov Battalion is not setting policy in Ukraine.

And there's a good chance Zelesnky has some money stashed somewhere.

If anyone thinks the above is enough of a reason to not support Ukraine in this war, I am not sure they are getting the full picture.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

The Russians have disconnected Chernobyl from the power grid.  Meaning after their diesel generators run out in 48 hours, that there will be no power to cool or ventilate the reactors.  

 

[BobbyLayne]

Yes, you can find YouTube vids about these guys. They were ultra-nationalists (at least in 2014). I think it's unclear what their leadership is like right now. Either way, they were a volunteer militia, that has been fighting under the umbrella of the Ukrainian army. Azov Battalion is not setting policy in Ukraine.

And there's a good chance Zelesnky has some money stashed somewhere.

If anyone thinks the above is enough of a reason to not support Ukraine in this war, I am not sure they are getting the full picture.

Yeah, one of the things I had in mind in posting. There’s denazification (b.s. propaganda lie) and there is a neo-Nazi faction in Ukraine. They’re here as well - Wikipedia has a list of 38 neo-Nazi groups in the USA - but they’re not in Congress and their influence is minimal. Let’s not make out like “Ukraine has a neo-Nazi problem” equates to we should be backing the Commies and the Oligarchs.

I’m a bit uncomfortable with the binary depiction of black hat Russia and angelic Ukraine. I mean, eff Putin, he deserves to be demonized. Communist Russia? Not a fan. Russian people? I have a more difficult time with that broad of a brush. Ukraine is pure as fresh fallen snow? Highly unlikely, but still the ones we should be backing.

They have a right to self determination regardless.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Neither source seems all that reputable to me and neither one seems like a source that the vast majority of people are regularly visiting. 

As far as I could tell in a brief search earlier today, AS is a Spanish site with a heavy emphasis on sports and especially football (️) - so yeah, a bit odd but not straight trash.

 

[massraider]

I’m a bit uncomfortable with the binary depiction of black hat Russia and angelic Ukraine. I mean, eff Putin, he deserves to be demonized. Communist Russia? Not a fan. Russian people? I have a more difficult time with that broad of a brush. Ukraine is pure as fresh fallen snow? Highly unlikely, but still the ones we should be backing.

They have a right to self determination regardless.

I've read quite a few stories about how there are many Russian people doing great things, innovative minds having success, but it's after they left. 

There has been an exodus of the young and the smart there for years and years, it isn't just the corrupt. History will not be kind to what Putin did to this nation.

 

[Tom Servo]

I’m a bit uncomfortable with the binary depiction of black hat Russia and angelic Ukraine. I mean, eff Putin, he deserves to be demonized. Communist Russia? Not a fan. Russian people? I have a more difficult time with that broad of a brush. Ukraine is pure as fresh fallen snow? Highly unlikely, but still the ones we should be backing.

They have a right to self determination regardless.

I look at it as Putin is the heel here, and the Russian citizens (for the most part) are unwillingly along for the ride.  To take out your anger on the old Russian woman selling food is wrong; she didn't invade Ukraine and has nothing to do with it.  You also don't assume that because someone's from Russia that they're a Putin disciple/fan/acolyte.  Let their actions prove who they truly are.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

If you are in Russia you can't exchange rubles for other countries money for 6 months.   

Ah.  Thanks. Time to buy rubles?

 

[DA RAIDERS]

The Russians have disconnected Chernobyl from the power grid.  Meaning after their diesel generators run out in 48 hours, that there will be no power to cool or ventilate the reactors.  

Source?  I haven’t looked at the news or anything yet today. If true, this is not good. 

 

[FBG26]

The Russians have disconnected Chernobyl from the power grid.  Meaning after their diesel generators run out in 48 hours, that there will be no power to cool or ventilate the reactors.  

Source?  I haven’t looked at the news or anything yet today. If true, this is not good. 

Link

“Because of military actions of Russian occupiers the nuclear power plant in Chornobyl was fully disconnected from the power grid. The nuclear station has no power supply,” Ukrenergo said in a statement on its official Telegram page, using Ukraine’s spelling for the plant.

Electricity is needed for cooling, ventilation and fire extinguishing systems at the closed site. In a statement on its Facebook page, Ukrenergo also said emergency diesel generators have been turned on but that fuel would last for only 48 hours.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Link

Holy crap. 

 

[Chris B.]

If you are in Russia you can't exchange rubles for other countries money for 6 months.   

In Soviet Russia, Rubles exchange YOU!

 

[beer 30]

The Russians have disconnected Chernobyl from the power grid.  Meaning after their diesel generators run out in 48 hours, that there will be no power to cool or ventilate the reactors.  

I feel like this news isn't getting the proper amount of attention considering the history of issues around Chernobyl. This gets really ugly, really quickly if/when generators go offline. 

 

[foxco]

I feel like this news isn't getting the proper amount of attention considering the history of issues around Chernobyl. This gets really ugly, really quickly if/when generators go offline. 

Getting conflicting info on this, BBC running a story that saying safety isn't impacted:

"Rafael Grossi, director-general of the UN watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), said that even without an electrical supply, the spent nuclear fuel would not heat up sufficiently to cause an accident."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60678598

Not sure what to believe, certainly seems like there would be a major risk here?

 

[beer 30]

Getting conflicting info on this, BBC running a story that saying safety isn't impacted:

"Rafael Grossi, director-general of the UN watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), said that even without an electrical supply, the spent nuclear fuel would not heat up sufficiently to cause an accident."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60678598

Not sure what to believe, certainly seems like there would be a major risk here?

Spent fuel rods, from Chernobyl, have been being cooled before and since the accident. The plant stayed in operation for a number of years after the event occurred. It seems odd to me that now, 30 years out, we're ok with the mechanism that's been in place safeguarding these rods to not be in place.

*** - I am not a nuclear physicist nor do I play one on TV and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'm currently transitioning from SARS-CoV-2 expert to International geopolitical expert. I simply don't have time for this too. 

 

[ChiefD]

*** - I am not a nuclear physicist nor do I play one on TV and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'm currently transitioning from SARS-CoV-2 expert to International geopolitical expert. I simply don't have time for this too. 

I gave you a like for your post and a     for this.

 

[Capella]

I feel like this news isn't getting the proper amount of attention considering the history of issues around Chernobyl. This gets really ugly, really quickly if/when generators go offline. 

The problem is nobody knows what the truth is. Things are flying out so fast that half the story is even being told. 

 

[nysfl2]

Spent fuel rods, from Chernobyl, have been being cooled before and since the accident. The plant stayed in operation for a number of years after the event occurred. It seems odd to me that now, 30 years out, we're ok with the mechanism that's been in place safeguarding these rods to not be in place.

*** - I am not a nuclear physicist nor do I play one on TV and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'm currently transitioning from SARS-CoV-2 expert to International geopolitical expert. I simply don't have time for this too. 

A lot of the primary heat-producing isotopes decay away in 30 years, reducing the need for cooling over time. The IAEA is likely to be a good unbiased source on these sorts of things, so if they aren't concerned, it probably isn't a big deal.

 

[Tom Servo]

I gave you a like for your post and a     for this.

Me too.

 

[Tom Servo]

Mariupol children’s hospital destroyed as UK says Russia admits use of thermobaric bombs

Earlier, a children’s hospital was destroyed by Russian forces dropping “several bombs” on the building during – what was meant to be – a ceasefire, authorities in Mariupol said.

“The destruction is colossal,” the southern Ukrainian city’s council said, adding that the number of casualties was unknown.

Children were “under the wreckage”, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky said as he shared footage of the ruins to social media.

These mother####ers.  Excuse my French; if you're bombing women in labor and children, you're evil.

 

[Jaysus]

Mariupol children’s hospital destroyed as UK says Russia admits use of thermobaric bombs

These mother####ers.  Excuse my French; if you're bombing women in labor and children, you're evil.

I read somewhere while doomscrolling that russia claims Ukraine evacuated the staff and patients and were using the building for snipers. 

 

[Kal El]

I read somewhere while doomscrolling that russia claims Ukraine evacuated the staff and patients and were using the building for snipers. 

I don’t believe a word Russia says, and probably won’t do so going forward for a very long time. 

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

Just curious where you found the links to these news stories.

I just did a news search in Duck Duck Go yesterday after hearing rumors of it.  Just search for "Nazis in Ukraine" and it's the 3rd link down.

Just tried on Google news and it didn't show up.

 

[DallasDMac]

Mariupol children’s hospital destroyed as UK says Russia admits use of thermobaric bombs

These mother####ers.  Excuse my French; if you're bombing women in labor and children, you're evil.

Putin is a soulless ####. He intends to destroy Ukraine to the point that even NATO won't want it anymore.

 

[Ksquared]

I read somewhere while doomscrolling that russia claims Ukraine evacuated the staff and patients and were using the building for snipers. 

Here is the problem with that claim, the hospital is nowhere near any troops at this time.  Take a look at the latest maps and the Russian Forces are not inside the City, which is where the hospital is located.  They are on the outskirts of the City and shelling/bombing it from there.

 

[eoMMan]

A lot of the primary heat-producing isotopes decay away in 30 years, reducing the need for cooling over time. The IAEA is likely to be a good unbiased source on these sorts of things, so if they aren't concerned, it probably isn't a big deal.

Exactly. I was just about to say this about the isotopes.

 

[belljr]

Exactly. I was just about to say this about the isotopes.

It's isotopes.  San Demis High School Football rules!!

 

[Flash]

Mariupol children’s hospital destroyed as UK says Russia admits use of thermobaric bombs

These mother####ers.  Excuse my French; if you're bombing women in labor and children, you're evil.

Yup. Time to take him out

 

[culdeus]

Look, these Nazis in Ukraine aren't going to kill themselves people.

 

[Tom Servo]

I read somewhere while doomscrolling that russia claims Ukraine evacuated the staff and patients and were using the building for snipers. 

"We're giving them a real lesson today. Heavy doesn't accurately describe the level of casualties we have inflicted." - Baghdad Bob

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

"We're giving them a real lesson today. Heavy doesn't accurately describe the level of casualties we have inflicted." - Baghdad Bob

As we first said in Iraq, back in the days when your Western ancestors were scribbling in cave walls...these Russians are real Jerky al-Jerkfaces.

 

[Tom Servo]

I was wondering when this alias was getting dusted off  

Yeah, it was sad that I had to draw him out.  Whomever has the passcode to that account needs to be a little sharper on the ball.

 

[Iraqi Information Minister]

Yeah, it was sad that I had to draw him out.  Whomever has the passcode to that account needs to be a little sharper on the ball.

I have been doing Allah's work here recently, my friend.

And by friend I mean one who is not even worthy of me throwing his shoe at! 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I just did a news search in Duck Duck Go yesterday after hearing rumors of it.  Just search for "Nazis in Ukraine" and it's the 3rd link down.

Just tried on Google news and it didn't show up.

DuckDuckGo is beginning to downrank and hopefully remove purposeful Russian disinformation like the site you mentioned earlier. I guess they have to protect you from yourself, since you can’t be fussed to vet your sources.

https://mobile.twitter.com/yegg/status/1501717193855283201?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1501717193855283201|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=

lol - I thought one of the main marketing features of DDG was that they won't filter search results.  I know privacy / anti-tracking is their main thing, but I've seen frequent comments over the years that a DDG search is better than Google to get the real, unfiltered truth or somesuch nonsense.

 

[culdeus]

I just did a news search in Duck Duck Go yesterday after hearing rumors of it.  Just search for "Nazis in Ukraine" and it's the 3rd link down.

Just tried on Google news and it didn't show up.

My notebook is so stale, I had this as a Furley alias.  

 

[Tom Servo]

My notebook is so stale, I had this as a Furley alias.  

Most aliases are assumed to be Furley unless proven otherwise.

 

[The Z Machine]

lol - I thought one of the main marketing features of DDG was that they won't filter search results.  I know privacy / anti-tracking is their main thing, but I've seen frequent comments over the years that a DDG search is better than Google to get the real, unfiltered truth or somesuch nonsense.

I can't figure out a way to view all of the replies to a tweet in DDG without a Twitter login.  There's no incognito mode in DDG.

Also DDG logs me out of FBG if I log in from another computer or phone.  I have to enter my user and pass each time i switch devices. Annoyong.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

I can't figure out a way to view all of the replies to a tweet in DDG without a Twitter login.  There's no incognito mode in DDG.

Also DDG logs me out of FBG if I log in from another computer or phone.  I have to enter my user and pass each time i switch devices. Annoyong.

DDG?

 

[The Z Machine]

DDG?

David de Gea.

Or in this context Duck Duck Go.

 

[culdeus]

I can't figure out a way to view all of the replies to a tweet in DDG without a Twitter login.  There's no incognito mode in DDG.

Also DDG logs me out of FBG if I log in from another computer or phone.  I have to enter my user and pass each time i switch devices. Annoyong.

Oh.  That's what's doing that.   It's worse than Putin. 

 

[JaxBill]

this guy is an interesting Twitter follow

@TrentTelenko: The Ukrainian Army is attacking _NORTH_ of that famous 40 mile/64 km column to cut off it's lines of communications to Belarus.  

If they pull it off, 1/5 of the Russian Army in Ukraine will be pocketed for a motti/kettle battle annihilation

"Don't attack during the 
1/2 https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1501985760370696193

@TrentTelenko: ...Rasputitsa**" is about to join "Don't fight a land war in Asia" as a military historical proverb.

**Especially when you are attacking into a flood plain the enemy controls the reservoir release valves too.

https://twitter.com/MattyK_USA/status/1500559325382778886

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

https://twitter.com/sommervilletv/status/1502000265490227206?s=20&t=Da0zEMT3MMSODGTuJMD2DA

Wow. Old school war reporting, probably the best I've seen on this conflict.

 

[Doug B]

I can't figure out a way to view all of the replies to a tweet in DDG without a Twitter login.  There's no incognito mode in DDG.

DDG is a browser, not just a search engine?

Anyway, @Dennis Castro posted this helpful info in the other thread:  

Aside: Any way to read through Twitter threads without actually creating a Twitter account? Used to be able to up until about a month ago.

I know some people will think "Just create a Twitter account already", but I'd prefer to avoid that if I can read threads any other way at all.

It’s a pain, but if you just click login and then X out of the dialogue. It opens the page back up.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1502281843776835589

 

[Jaysus]

Is russia flying that false flag in belarus?

oh and...

Apparently belarus is going to invade Ukraine today?

how convenient. 

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

lol - I thought one of the main marketing features of DDG was that they won't filter search results.  

Key word being "was".