***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (2 Viewers)

[NewlyRetired]

There are multiple tiers to development. The first tier requires a strong domestic league.

Brazil, Argentina and Holland all might have weaker leagues top to bottom than the big 4 in Europe, but they are with out a doubt incredibly important to the development of players for those nations.

MLS, like Mexico and the other countries mentioned above will play a critical role in developing players for the US.

Goeff Cameron did not suck 1 day in MLS and then was a solid player the next in the EPL. It does not work that way. The primary development of a player typically happens in the players domestic league for 90% of the players in the world.

If they succeed there then they have a chance for a bigger league if the variables work out.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I just think Klinsmann's advice is too simplistic and too "one size fits all." Careers can be ruined (or at least years of development can be wasted) by players making the wrong move. See, Gio Dos Santos. If anything, I think the fact that Landon didn't waste a ton of time trying to breakthrough at Leverkeusen gave him games where he could get better in MLS. I also think that 24 and up is the wrong time to worry about the best way to develop. RVP has matured a lot in his late 20s, but I'd still say that 95% of the stuff that makes him RVP came from before he ever came to England. It's crazy that we're expecting Clint Dempsey to somehow further develop by competing at a higher level. He's 29.

Great post. Case in point:

Kirovski, the son of Macedonian immigrants,[1][2] joined Manchester United's youth team in 1992, becoming the first American to sign with the club. He led the reserve team in scoring in 1996, but was not able to break into the first team because of work permit regulations. After that season, he signed with Borussia Dortmund in the Bundesliga. Kirovski spent the next four seasons in Germany, playing sparingly for Dortmund;

Kirovski would have been miles better off getting meaningful playing time in MLS than he was making 20 first team appearances between the ages of 16 and 24.

 

[NewlyRetired]

The most interesting part of that article is the notion that MLS is more respected overseas than it is in the US.I have no idea if that is true but it is an interesting theory with likely many different reasons (that the article tried to simplify down to talking points).

Maybe Tony Pulis has a higher opinion of Geoff Cameron than the average Big Soccer poster, but it's not clear he has a higher opinion of him than Dom Kinnear does.

For Cameron to stay in MLS, he would have had to be a DP, and be the most expensive on the squad and eat up a max cap slot. But at Stoke, he probably, at best, is an average paid player in a non salary cap limited roster. From a value aspect, he is significantly more valuable to Stoke than to Houston, imo. MLS as a league and as a general topic can cause very polar opinions; people either over rate or under rate the players and the quality of the league. Very few seem willing to admit that while it is no where near a top league and may never be in our lifetime, it still is growing nicely and is entertaining.One side is too invested in league, overly biased and is sick of people slagging it off and the other side tends to lack any real knowledge of the league or what little they have is from 2006, which in MLS terms was a long ways away from what they are today.

 

[NewlyRetired]

While everything you say Gator is true, I don't think T Bell was talking about how to build MLS. In fact his plan pretty much assures the league would never grow from where it is today.

I don't think that's true. I think that MLS will grow as soccer grows. So that eventually players will have the option to stay and develop (and perhaps more relevantly stay and make the type of money they can make overseas).

Maybe I misunderstood him but I thought he was implying that all American players should ignore MLS and go to Europe. While I don't think that is viable for many different reasons, if it did some how happen, I stand by what I said that it would hurt MLS's chance of growth. If he was not saying that, then just ignore me

 

[NewlyRetired]

Can you call yourself a US soccer fan if you don't support MLS? Link

Not sure who I am supposed to support locally for the MLS as that states. I was a fan of the TB Mutiny (Valderrama and Lassiter FTW), but the league folded them. The closest team is in DC 400 miles away. I have been to DC as many times as I have been to Barcelona, and the trip to DC was to see Barcelona play. Not really a local team to support in the southeast.

If for nothing else the league needs a Florida/Southern team soon especially if they continue to want to start the league before the CCL Quarterfinal start as they did this year.I live 15 minutes from an MLS stadium, and we are in week 2 of the MLS season I just got down shoveling/snow blowing close to 20 inches of snow off of my driveway

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

One side is too invested in league, overly biased and is sick of people slagging it off and the other side tends to lack any real knowledge of the league or what little they have is from 2006, which in MLS terms was a long ways away from what they are today.

I've been in both camps on this one, except that I don't think I've ever slagged the players today. I just don't like the NY/LA spending inside what was supposed to be the SEM equalizer.Anyway, I really don't have an opinion on the quality today vs earlier. I do think that the DCU teams I used to watch seemed to be on par with the Galaxy today, but maybe that's 'the ruinous work of nostalgia'?It seemed like the depth had gotten much better in the early 2000s -- has that continued or has expansion to diluted the pool again?I'd also be really curious about your (and anyone's) take on the quality of the top teams in the league throughout the years if you're willing...

 

[Txns8]

Not Good

Well, World Cup Qualifying just got harder for the US, at home and certainly on the road.

Reports today say USMNT staple keeper Tim Howard is now out at least a month with broken bones in his back. Howard’s EPL club Everton certainly now has lost any slim hope they had at Champion’s League football as little-tested Jan Mucha will relieve the New Jersey-bred keeper.

For the US though, the challenge becomes threefold. First, they must replace Howard in net and select from a stable of players where Klinsmann has not necessarily crowned a number two. In all likelihood, Aston Villa man and understudy under Bob Bradley Brad Guzan will now deputize. Second, they must replace Howard’s role of marshaling the defense–a problem that becomes exacerbated when one considers that Klinsmann looked to be pushing beyond the aging Carlos Bocanegra as a pairing at center back. The weight of leadership now falls squarely–perhaps on Omar Gonzalez and Geoff Cameron–neither of who have been the defacto leaders for their clubs over the past years.

Finally, it has appeared that Tim Howard–at least temporarily–had been bestowed the captain’s armband for the States. Where, or rather who, does that arm wear go to now. Back to Bocanegra? Forward to Michael Bradley? Jermaine Jones?

Beyond Guzan, the role for the #3 and #4 keepers just got more interesting. In all likelihood, Nick Rimando is now this regime’s Marcus Hahnemann while Sean Johnson still edges Bill Hamid for the role of promising youngster.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Could Howard just sit behind goal and scream at defenders?

 

[NewlyRetired]

One side is too invested in league, overly biased and is sick of people slagging it off and the other side tends to lack any real knowledge of the league or what little they have is from 2006, which in MLS terms was a long ways away from what they are today.

I've been in both camps on this one, except that I don't think I've ever slagged the players today. I just don't like the NY/LA spending inside what was supposed to be the SEM equalizer.Anyway, I really don't have an opinion on the quality today vs earlier. I do think that the DCU teams I used to watch seemed to be on par with the Galaxy today, but maybe that's 'the ruinous work of nostalgia'?It seemed like the depth had gotten much better in the early 2000s -- has that continued or has expansion to diluted the pool again?I'd also be really curious about your (and anyone's) take on the quality of the top teams in the league throughout the years if you're willing...

The quality of the top teams have not changed a ton over the years. The quality of say the 16th best team today is much better than the 10th best team back in the day. It was obviously much easier to fill up a 10 team league than it is a 19 team league so the league as a whole is much deeper today than it was in the 90's imo.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Luckily, as we said earlier in the thread a few months ago, with Guzan playing a very solid keeper this year, this injury to Howard is not as devastating as it might have been 18 months ago.

Just another piece in what was always going to be a very difficult qualifying puzzle.

 

[NewlyRetired]

So here is the current role call for the US

On the negative side:

Howard, Cherundolo, Castillo and Donovan all out for the qualifiers

Dempsey currently coming off an injury

Cameron, Boca and Williams recent playing time has been cut severely

On the plus side:

Zusi, Johnson and Gonzo are all off to decent starts in MLS.

Shea is starting to work his way into the lineup at Stoke.

Edu has become an instant component of his new team

Joe Benny Corona is getting a ton of plaudits starting every game for the best team in Mexico and 1 of only 2 teams in the 32 team group stage with a perfect record in the Copa Libertadores.

Guzan is getting shelled at Villa but has put up more good games than bad ones.

Holding steady and strong:

Fab, Bradley, Gomez, Sacha, Jones and Jozy are all getting good playing time and playing well from reports.

 

[NewlyRetired]

The two legs CCL match between RM and Man U did extremely well in the ratings, considering the awful time slot

Leg 1:

1,147,000 total viewers

451K on Fox Soccer, 696K on Fox Deportes.

Leg 2:

1,102,000 Total viewers

520,000 viewers on Fox Soccer, 582,000 viewers on Fox Deportes

Second legs notes

- Highest rated Champions League or any midweek match in Fox Soccer’s history

- Third overall highest rating of any match on Fox Soccer behind 2011′s Liverpool v Chelsea BPL match (579,000 viewers) and the 2011 Gold Cup Final between the US and Mexico (1.1mil. viewers).

 

[Txns8]

The two legs CCL match between RM and Man U did extremely well in the ratings, considering the awful time slotLeg 1:1,147,000 total viewers451K on Fox Soccer, 696K on Fox Deportes.Leg 2:1,102,000 Total viewers520,000 viewers on Fox Soccer, 582,000 viewers on Fox DeportesSecond legs notes- Highest rated Champions League or any midweek match in Fox Soccer’s history- Third overall highest rating of any match on Fox Soccer behind 2011′s Liverpool v Chelsea BPL match (579,000 viewers) and the 2011 Gold Cup Final between the US and Mexico (1.1mil. viewers).

How does the DVR watcher figure into these numbers?

 

[NewlyRetired]

The two legs CCL match between RM and Man U did extremely well in the ratings, considering the awful time slotLeg 1:1,147,000 total viewers451K on Fox Soccer, 696K on Fox Deportes.Leg 2:1,102,000 Total viewers520,000 viewers on Fox Soccer, 582,000 viewers on Fox DeportesSecond legs notes- Highest rated Champions League or any midweek match in Fox Soccer’s history- Third overall highest rating of any match on Fox Soccer behind 2011′s Liverpool v Chelsea BPL match (579,000 viewers) and the 2011 Gold Cup Final between the US and Mexico (1.1mil. viewers).

How does the DVR watcher figure into these numbers?

I believe all viewership information since early 2011 has been categorized as Live+SD, which means it takes into account live viewings plus same day DVR viewings(before 3:00am). If a show is not watch on dvr during the same day I believe it goes into another rating category that is rarely released to general public.I will double check this to make sure.

 

[NewlyRetired]

So here is the current role call for the USOn the negative side:Howard, Cherundolo, Castillo and Donovan all out for the qualifiersDempsey currently coming off an injuryCameron, Boca and Williams recent playing time has been cut severelyOn the plus side:Zusi, Johnson and Gonzo are all off to decent starts in MLS.Shea is starting to work his way into the lineup at Stoke. Edu has become an instant component of his new teamJoe Benny Corona is getting a ton of plaudits starting every game for the best team in Mexico and 1 of only 2 teams in the 32 team group stage with a perfect record in the Copa Libertadores. Guzan is getting shelled at Villa but has put up more good games than bad ones. Holding steady and strong:Fab, Bradley, Gomez, Sacha, Jones and Jozy are all getting good playing time and playing well from reports.

Fabian Johnson was not on the roster for Hoff today with an unlisted injury :(Brad Friedel tweeted that if Brad Guzan gets hurt, he will make himself available to play for US until either Howard or Guzan gets better.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Brad Friedel tweeted that if Brad Guzan gets hurt, he will make himself available to play for US until either Howard or Guzan gets better.

Nice to hear that. He's still playing pretty well.Thanks for the MLS rundown too.

 

[ffldrew]

Can you call yourself a US soccer fan if you don't support MLS? Link

Not sure who I am supposed to support locally for the MLS as that states. I was a fan of the TB Mutiny (Valderrama and Lassiter FTW), but the league folded them. The closest team is in DC 400 miles away. I have been to DC as many times as I have been to Barcelona, and the trip to DC was to see Barcelona play. Not really a local team to support in the southeast.

If for nothing else the league needs a Florida/Southern team soon especially if they continue to want to start the league before the CCL Quarterfinal start as they did this year.I live 15 minutes from an MLS stadium, and we are in week 2 of the MLS season I just got down shoveling/snow blowing close to 20 inches of snow off of my driveway

Rapids game canceled today because we have a blizzard going on - 8-14" . they were going to try and play with orange lines and an orange ball. But now the roads are taking a beating and they moved it to tomorrow.

 

[NewlyRetired]

One side is too invested in league, overly biased and is sick of people slagging it off and the other side tends to lack any real knowledge of the league or what little they have is from 2006, which in MLS terms was a long ways away from what they are today.

I've been in both camps on this one, except that I don't think I've ever slagged the players today. I just don't like the NY/LA spending inside what was supposed to be the SEM equalizer.

In terms of SEM, I can see why this would cause a gritting of the teeth, but SEM as you and I knew it back in the 90's is all but gone from the league.It was fairly easy to put SEM in place when the ownership diversity was so low and there were no local stadiums to worry about for revenue control, but once the league decided they needed to expand the ownership group and stadiums, they found the willing participants to want much more control locally (which was absolutely fine with AEG, who obviously had bigger ideas than what SEM would allow).All that is left today of SEM is a 30% sharing of the gate, the national tv deals and the first $250k from any shirt sponsorships, from which the league pays the salary cap of the players. Everything else is left to the local owners to manage.And in a way, that is how it should be IMO. If LA takes the enormous risk of getting a huge name like Beckham, and then it pays off in spades for them through a huge local TV deal, shirt sponsorship and stadium naming rights, amongst other things, then they should be able to reap the rewards and spend under the rules listed by the league.Every single team could spend as much as LA or NY if they wanted. There is nothing preventing it. Some teams may take risks, other teams will play money ball.While LA has won the last two MLS Cups, spending a ton does not equate to automatic success as NY and Toronto will show. And teams like Houston, RSL, and KC have put together excellent teams while staying with in a decent sized budget.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Can you call yourself a US soccer fan if you don't support MLS? Link

Not sure who I am supposed to support locally for the MLS as that states. I was a fan of the TB Mutiny (Valderrama and Lassiter FTW), but the league folded them. The closest team is in DC 400 miles away. I have been to DC as many times as I have been to Barcelona, and the trip to DC was to see Barcelona play. Not really a local team to support in the southeast.

If for nothing else the league needs a Florida/Southern team soon especially if they continue to want to start the league before the CCL Quarterfinal start as they did this year.I live 15 minutes from an MLS stadium, and we are in week 2 of the MLS season I just got down shoveling/snow blowing close to 20 inches of snow off of my driveway

Rapids game canceled today because we have a blizzard going on - 8-14" . they were going to try and play with orange lines and an orange ball. But now the roads are taking a beating and they moved it to tomorrow.

thems the risks of playing in early March in certain cities. I can't even imagine the attendance and or constant cancellations if the league played through the winter as some seem to want.

 

[Sebowski]

Brad Friedel tweeted that if Brad Guzan gets hurt, he will make himself available to play for US until either Howard or Guzan gets better.

Will he temporarily drop his British accent as well?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Could we trade Spain a baseball player for De Gea? It's not like they need him.

 

[bentley]

Brad Friedel tweeted that if Brad Guzan gets hurt, he will make himself available to play for US until either Howard or Guzan gets better.

Will he temporarily drop his British accent as well?

Would also be nice if he could add a Kenny Powers-style mullet.

 

[jonessed]

Brad Friedel tweeted that if Brad Guzan gets hurt, he will make himself available to play for US until either Howard or Guzan gets better.

Will he temporarily drop his British accent as well?

I've know a few Americans that have lived and worked in England for long spells. Their accents will turn off and on in different situations and they don't even notice it. Some are better at recognizing it than others, but it can be a bit humorous.

 

[jonessed]

Brad Friedel tweeted that if Brad Guzan gets hurt, he will make himself available to play for US until either Howard or Guzan gets better.

Nice to hear that. He's still playing pretty well.Thanks for the MLS rundown too.

He's playing well and he's not first choice at Spurs so it seems like a win-win for everybody.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Brad Friedel tweeted that if Brad Guzan gets hurt, he will make himself available to play for US until either Howard or Guzan gets better.

Nice to hear that. He's still playing pretty well.Thanks for the MLS rundown too.

He's playing well and he's not first choice at Spurs so it seems like a win-win for everybody.

The drop off after Guzan is quite steep. Rimando is solid and experienced but I would hardly want to see him at the Azteca and Hamid and Johnson, while both marvelously talented, are not even close to consistent enough to start a qualifier of this magnitude.Friedel does make a ton of sense should worst come to worst and Guzan goes down.

 

[Sebowski]

Messi comes in as a sub and scores late to extend his own consecutive La Liga games with a goal record to 17.

 

[Mjolnirs]

Bayern gave up 2 goals today! They fell behind to Düsseldorf 1-0 in the 16th and then 2-1 in the 71st and didn't take the lead until the 86th.

Dortmund and Leverkusen both lost today so Bayern's lead is 20 points with 9 matches to go.

FC Bayern 	21-3-1	67:10 	66  +57Dortmund 	13-7-5 	55:30 	46  +25Leverkusen 	13-6-6 	45:32 	45  +13

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Bayern gave up 2 goals today! They fell behind to Düsseldorf 1-0 in the 16th and then 2-1 in the 71st and didn't take the lead until the 86th.Dortmund and Leverkusen both lost today so Bayern's lead is 20 points with 9 matches to go.

FC Bayern 	21-3-1	67:10 	66  +57Dortmund 	13-7-5 	55:30 	46  +25Leverkusen 	13-6-6 	45:32 	45  +13

I had Dusseldorf 40-1 to win. I liked that bet a lot.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Ian Wright appears to have a boa constrictor around his neck.

 

[TLEF316]

Trying to give Gus Johnson a chance (love him doing basketball) but it just doesn't work

it seems like he just doesn't want to miss a chance to make a big call, so he screams like a lunatic any time someone even looks at the goal

 

[Steve Tasker]

Curtains for Chelsea!

That was a world class header from Chicharito, btw

 

[jonessed]

Vertonghen from Bale. I know everybody is watching the FA cup, but the Liverpool - Tottenham game has been really good.

 

[jonessed]

Vertonghen from Bale again. Liverpool getting hammered as Sigurdssen hits the post for the second time.

 

[jonessed]

Liverpool back in with Lloris' second mistake.

 

[GoFishTN]

Is Gomes playing for Spurs again?

 

[jonessed]

Is Gomes playing for Spurs again?

I thought he was loaned or sold

 

[GoFishTN]

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Is Gomes playing for Spurs again?

I thought he was loaned or sold

Think that was a joke. He's with Hoffenheim.

 

[GoFishTN]

Is Gomes playing for Spurs again?

I thought he was loaned or sold

That was a joke.

 

[jonessed]

Ugh. Tottenham just giving away a game they have been significantly better in.

 

[jonessed]

Is Gomes playing for Spurs again?

I thought he was loaned or sold

That was a joke.

Yeah, sorry. Lloris having a really bad game.

 

[GoFishTN]

I think that Suarez penalty was way soft, but I'm biased.

 

[jonessed]

I think that Suarez penalty was way soft, but I'm biased.

It was, but it's hard to complain. Atrocious mistakes by Walker and Defoe. Sometimes you wonder what goes through player's heads when they make passes like that.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Wright slagging the Chelsea fans is killing me.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Aside from kicking the ballboy, man, Eden Hazard is probably my favorite player in the world at the moment. A good goal followed by tremendous vision to find Ramires for the second. Such a delight to watch.

 

[Eephus]

Wright slagging the Chelsea fans is killing me.

I think Fox gave Wrighty the gig to make Gus Johnson sound good by comparison

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Wright slagging the Chelsea fans is killing me.

I think Fox gave Wrighty the gig to make Gus Johnson sound good by comparison

I think he's been sort of astute, but he's very very raw. We're all just waiting for a Gus / Ray Hudson pairing for the first ever soccer inspired simultaneous orgasm.

 

[GoFishTN]

I think that Suarez penalty was way soft, but I'm biased.

It was, but it's hard to complain. Atrocious mistakes by Walker and Defoe. Sometimes you wonder what goes through player's heads when they make passes like that.

Yeah, a lot of time will be spent on back passing in practice this week.

 

[Eephus]

Wright slagging the Chelsea fans is killing me.

I think Fox gave Wrighty the gig to make Gus Johnson sound good by comparison

I think he's been sort of astute, but he's very very raw. We're all just waiting for a Gus / Ray Hudson pairing for the first ever soccer inspired simultaneous orgasm.

Gus would probably be better served by having one consistent partner

 

[jonessed]

Wright slagging the Chelsea fans is killing me.

I think Fox gave Wrighty the gig to make Gus Johnson sound good by comparison

I think he's been sort of astute, but he's very very raw. We're all just waiting for a Gus / Ray Hudson pairing for the first ever soccer inspired simultaneous orgasm.

Gus would probably be better served by having one consistent partner

I'm not sure it matters. He has one style and it just doesn't fit the sport.I was willing to give him some time, but I think it's clear now it's not going to work out.