NewlyRetired
Footballguy
If either US or Mexico has a misstep in qualifying they could easily meet each other in a single elimination game so tonight is going to very interesting to watch.
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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter jpeace121
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
When you add Adu and Agudelo to Shea, Boyd, Chandler, Williams and Jozy and then throw in 3 overage players, it would be easily our most experienced Olympic team ever.Hard to believe that after all these years, Adu is still only 22 years old.I don't know much about Morales. Everyone else I am very familiar with. This squad is missing Shea, Boyd, Chandler, Williams and Jozy, all of whom are age eligible to play I believe.No Okugo?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Watching in standard def really makes me miss having the names on the shirts.
Anyone have the squad list with numbers?
Anyone have the squad list with numbers?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
What in gods name did Agudelo do to his head?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
From the media reports, Colombia played Mexico off the field in their 2-0 win in Miami tonight. Looked to be the A squad for Mexico.
51,000 rabid soccer fans to see a friendly soccer match in Miami. Among Hispanics, only Cubans outnumber Colombians in Miami. 300 credentialed reporters. Will Ferrel promting his movie. Here is Michelle Kaufman's blog.
Premier
Footballguy
Beats the alternative dude. I think you're being ridiculously negative.I don't want to downplay a win over Italy on the road, but was anyone else not really surprised about the result today? I certainly wouldn't have predicted a win, but I thought a draw was very possible, perhaps even likely. There were a lot of big names missing from this Italian lineup - Aquilani, Pepe, Rossi, Gilardino, Balotelli, etc. - and let's not forget that this is a team that finished dead last in its group in the 2010 cup behind ####### New Zealand.Maybe this is the usual case of me being negative toward my favorite teams and failing to see the positives (which isn't uncommon), but I really think that Italy are vastly overrated at #8 in the most recent FIFA rankings.Still a historic win for the US, no doubt, but in my mind it really pales in comparison (in terms of how uplifting/exciting) to some of the results over the past few years - Spain win, England draw, Algeria win, to name a few. (ETA) This is probably just a consequence of it being a meaningless friendly, though.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Me likey Gyau. kid has got a 5th gear.
US looks really good against a supposedly strong Mexican team.
US looks really good against a supposedly strong Mexican team.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Freddy looking spry on the second goal. Porter has this team playing really nicely.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I feel like I am watching a bizarro world game here. I have never seen the US dominate so much possession against a Mexican team. The US looks more skilled all over the field. Gyau and Freddy are both having great games on the wings. Freddy looks so comfortable on the right wing as a lefty. If memory serves that is where he played well for the senior side last summer during the Gold Cup.
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SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
I don't even know why I asked this in here. Should have known all youse guys would be watching the US.
Native
Footballguy
When do we expect Gyau to get his Senior Team call up? Is he still a few years away?
The Gator
Footballguy
I watched it when I got homeI don't even know why I asked this in here. Should have known all youse guys would be watching the US.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Not sure. Like Boyd I don't think he is playing first team at his club yet in Germany. God he would look great on an MLS side though. Not sure of his defensive abilities which may be holding back his advancement.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Brushing off this win in Italy, Europe is a huge mistake. Comparing it to WC games is also a big mistake. This was a truly awesome win that if you saw coming you are more optimistic than you give yourself credit for. This is the same team that has struggled to get results form concaf teams. GREAT win today. Enjoy it. I was more excited to about the U23 domination though. When the seniors went up 1-0 they sat back, played kick ball, and payed the Italian shooting gallery didn't break Howard. The U23s never showed signs of panic. They kept with their game and made smart passes attacking when it was there. Real impressed there especially coming off watching the Sr team try to give the game away.I don't want to downplay a win over Italy on the road, but was anyone else not really surprised about the result today? I certainly wouldn't have predicted a win, but I thought a draw was very possible, perhaps even likely. There were a lot of big names missing from this Italian lineup - Aquilani, Pepe, Rossi, Gilardino, Balotelli, etc. - and let's not forget that this is a team that finished dead last in its group in the 2010 cup behind ####### New Zealand.Maybe this is the usual case of me being negative toward my favorite teams and failing to see the positives (which isn't uncommon
Sammy3469
Footballguy
To be fair though, Italy was the first time in awhile the Euro guys could play and heck they were even playing without Donovan. We also look like we found a LB which is excellent.Someone above asked about these U-23 guys getting called up. With Germanh Klinnsman was very quick to call them up. Assuming they make the Olympics, I would think you'll start seeing them quickly after that.Brushing off this win in Italy, Europe is a huge mistake. Comparing it to WC games is also a big mistake. This was a truly awesome win that if you saw coming you are more optimistic than you give yourself credit for. This is the same team that has struggled to get results form concaf teams. GREAT win today. Enjoy it. I was more excited to about the U23 domination though. When the seniors went up 1-0 they sat back, played kick ball, and payed the Italian shooting gallery didn't break Howard. The U23s never showed signs of panic. They kept with their game and made smart passes attacking when it was there. Real impressed there especially coming off watching the Sr team try to give the game away.I don't want to downplay a win over Italy on the road, but was anyone else not really surprised about the result today? I certainly wouldn't have predicted a win, but I thought a draw was very possible, perhaps even likely. There were a lot of big names missing from this Italian lineup - Aquilani, Pepe, Rossi, Gilardino, Balotelli, etc. - and let's not forget that this is a team that finished dead last in its group in the 2010 cup behind ####### New Zealand.Maybe this is the usual case of me being negative toward my favorite teams and failing to see the positives (which isn't uncommon
The Z Machine
Footballguy
toucheThey are only friendlies, so what do you care?Kinda pissed I missed the game today.But I'm about to buy (2) tickets to the USA/Brazil game, which will include food and ground transportation from BMore to FedEx. I saw a flyer at a pub I went to last night randomly. I got the last two tickets.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Colombia has had Mexico's number for a while. Also, Miami is an interesting venue because there will be more Colombian support there than almost anywhere else in the country. Did anyone watch the game?
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Yes, that was the case in the GC Final vs. Mexico. He was a bright spot on the right wing in that game. I think it suits him well if has has the support behind him (plus we have far better right backs than left backs).
The Z Machine
Footballguy
You would too if you could simply buy the likes of Benzema and Higuain. But I agree, Soldado is a very good player. He plays bigger than he is, although he's got good speed. Obviously he's not the same threat in the air as Llorente is, I think he's a better option to replace Torres.But really, how blessed is Spain in terms of talent? At striker alone (not even counting the excellent midfield), they have David Villa, Torres, Llorente, and Soldado as players all in their prime. And they might be even better with a lone striker and 5 midfielders. Crazy talent all around, it's no wonder they're the top dog right now. Brazil has to be the favorite for 2014, but a Spain/Brazil final would be pretty freaking awesome.
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Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I'm definitely not brushing off a win over Italy in Italy. I guess I was just surprised to hear Ian Darke talking it up like it was arguably the greatest win in USMNT history...that's really more of what I was commenting on. I wouldn't have predicted a win, but my knowledge of/pessimism about my beloved Azzurri had me thinking the US had a decent chance in the game. That's all I'm saying...Brushing off this win in Italy, Europe is a huge mistake. Comparing it to WC games is also a big mistake. This was a truly awesome win that if you saw coming you are more optimistic than you give yourself credit for. This is the same team that has struggled to get results form concaf teams. GREAT win today. Enjoy it. I was more excited to about the U23 domination though. When the seniors went up 1-0 they sat back, played kick ball, and payed the Italian shooting gallery didn't break Howard. The U23s never showed signs of panic. They kept with their game and made smart passes attacking when it was there. Real impressed there especially coming off watching the Sr team try to give the game away.I don't want to downplay a win over Italy on the road, but was anyone else not really surprised about the result today? I certainly wouldn't have predicted a win, but I thought a draw was very possible, perhaps even likely. There were a lot of big names missing from this Italian lineup - Aquilani, Pepe, Rossi, Gilardino, Balotelli, etc. - and let's not forget that this is a team that finished dead last in its group in the 2010 cup behind ####### New Zealand.Maybe this is the usual case of me being negative toward my favorite teams and failing to see the positives (which isn't uncommon
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I saw the last 20 or so minutes; it was already 2-0 Colombia when I turned it on. Colombia pretty much just sat back, 9 guys behind the ball, and bunkered down to stop the Mexicans. Mexico didn't really have many good opportunities, and Colombia looked pretty organized in defense.It was a pretty boring 20 minutes, though.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
How you like that Hippling?
scoobygang
Footballguy
I don't know. Fabian Johnson had arguably the best game from a US fullback in years against Italy. At LB. Far better than Chandler has done at LB or RB. If not for Bradley's Makelele impression, Johnson probably would have been Man of the Match.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Out of the three new German Americans, I like Johnson the best. His versatility looks great and he looked much better and more comfortable at LB than Chandler did. I would be bummed if JK returns Chandler to LB. Chandler should be used to push Cher for time IMO.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
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scoobygang
Footballguy
He seems to have gotten the least coverage over here, but he has the best resume of the Germans. He's the one who was a starter for the German U-21 European Championship team, playing with Ozil, Hummels, and Khadira. And he was a RM on that team. He lacks Chandler's raw pace, but he's miles ahead in technical ability and tactical sophistication. He appears perfectly comfortable with either foot. He plays calmly out of the back. Maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves, but we routinely played Bornstein in this position before. The gulf in class there is immense.
scoobygang
Footballguy
He's a broadcaster. It's what they do. Obviously, no friendly is the greatest win in US soccer history. But this was a B+ Italian side that was only missing a bit of experience in the back and a proven striker (or Balotelli, who I think would have given us fits).
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Or Rossi. Both of those guys would cause problems for the CBs and the DM.
scoobygang
Footballguy
Rossi plays a lot like Giovinco (who I wasn't all that familiar with as a forward, I had remembered him a MF for Juvie). I suppose it depends on whether we pin all the Atomic Ant's offsides calls on: 1) Giovinco's naivete, 2) pure luck, or 3) the backline's communication and sophistication. If it's the third, I'm not sure that Rossi would have caused more problems. Klinsmann wants to play a fairly high line at times. European teams obviously recognize that and are trying to play lots of balls over the top. In many ways, it was a dream scenario for Pirlo to do his Pirlo thing. But I thought the backline looked well organized. And because Bradley and Edu were goobling up any attempt to play into the box along the ground, the tactic worked well for the US because Boca had them stepping up just when they needed to.But the one thing the Italians didn't have was a specimen like Balotelli who can recieve the ball with his back to goal and make something special happen. I think it would have been harder to step up, because the CBs would have (understandably) wanted to play tighter on Mario.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
BRING BACK LUCA TONI
Sebowski
Footballguy
That makes senseI'm definitely not brushing off a win over Italy in Italy. I guess I was just surprised to hear Ian Darke talking it up like it was arguably the greatest win in USMNT history...that's really more of what I was commenting on. I wouldn't have predicted a win, but my knowledge of/pessimism about my beloved Azzurri had me thinking the US had a decent chance in the game. That's all I'm saying...Brushing off this win in Italy, Europe is a huge mistake. Comparing it to WC games is also a big mistake. This was a truly awesome win that if you saw coming you are more optimistic than you give yourself credit for. This is the same team that has struggled to get results form concaf teams. GREAT win today. Enjoy it. I was more excited to about the U23 domination though. When the seniors went up 1-0 they sat back, played kick ball, and payed the Italian shooting gallery didn't break Howard. The U23s never showed signs of panic. They kept with their game and made smart passes attacking when it was there. Real impressed there especially coming off watching the Sr team try to give the game away.I don't want to downplay a win over Italy on the road, but was anyone else not really surprised about the result today? I certainly wouldn't have predicted a win, but I thought a draw was very possible, perhaps even likely. There were a lot of big names missing from this Italian lineup - Aquilani, Pepe, Rossi, Gilardino, Balotelli, etc. - and let's not forget that this is a team that finished dead last in its group in the 2010 cup behind ####### New Zealand.
Maybe this is the usual case of me being negative toward my favorite teams and failing to see the positives (which isn't uncommon
Still a historic win for the US, no doubt, but in my mind it really pales in comparison (in terms of how uplifting/exciting) to some of the results over the past few years - Spain win, England draw, Algeria win, to name a few. (ETA) This is probably just a consequence of it being a meaningless friendly, though.
And I'm surprised how coherent i was at 2:30 in the morning. Only a couple typos.
El Floppo
Footballguy
No time to read your guys' comments unfortunately- hope to make time soon... really looking forward to hearing what you all thought.
Some thoughts on the game:
I think the "bunker" mentality that might easily be gleaned from the game is acutally a disservice to what the US was trying to do. It genuinely seemed to me that they were trying to play the ball and possess, but Italy's defensive presence and the US's repeated mis-steps and obviousness on the ball contributed to giving up the possession too cheaply. Several guys- Shea in particular- seemed like they just weren't up to the speed of the game and looked nervous in possession... first touches were ok, but their next touches and passes were so easily predicted- it made Italy's job very easy.
But- I was still very happy with what they appeared to be trying to do- possess and move forward in numbers. They'll need to work on some of their movement off the ball and anticipation of where the 2nd and 3rd passes should go- and try to make those passes either happen faster or better disguised. I'd also like to see the players move forward with a little more conviction and willingness to try the unexpected- Italy could often just stand off the player, knowing they weren't going to turn, and defend the next pass- which as mentioned was typically predictable.
And my god- Michael Bradley. Maybe because he's used to playing against those guys, but wow- he was unbelievable on both sides of the ball- soooo confident. His touch was perfect and his anticipation of the game was almost perfect too. Constantly relieved pressure for the US by clogging the space defensively or holding and playing the ball offensively. And as opposed to most of his team-mates, he was constantly surprising me with where he played the ball. Partnered really well with Edu, especially as the game progressed and they conspired to fill the holes in front of the back four. Downside for me- I still would prefer him to be more advanced than Edu; he's been playing the deep man for Chievo and they both looked like they were too deep to create positive space offensively too much of the game. but of course, Italy had the team under pressure, so a lot of that was needed. But easy MoM pick of Bradley for me- best game I can recall from him.
I thought Jozy was up and down. Had a lot- too many- lost balls where he either couldn't hold, or gave the ball up on a poor pass... but then he'd get into a sweet spot and do everything right for a number of minutes. Still a work in progress, and I'm still a fan. I still think he's not going to be a solo, target forward type and needs Deuce or somebody running closer off him for him to be at his best. But that win and layoff for the goal was excellent- as was Dempsey's understanding of adjusting his run slightly to get into that space to shoot. And how many goals has Dempsey hit this year just like that one for Fulham- coming back across his body to shoot into the opposite corner. Dempsey is obviously feeling confident- I hope this form continues for WCQ... he's playing like he belongs on the world stage. Looking fowrad to seeing Boyd as well- I liked the limited action he put in, aside from his one one-on-one that failed- due to lack of confidence, IMO.
Shea looked like he was in pre/off-season form and off the pace of the game all night, which is understandle. But I'll fault him for being too simple with the ball- usually the opposite for him. I'd like to see him take guys on more- use his pace and long legs to beat players down the flank... but it just didn't happen last night. He was a black hole with the ball and killed a lot of possession for the US. And Italians routinely went flying down his side exposing the US defense. And Sascha... woof. How many times did he get caught ball-watching? And I don't think he was able to put one pass together- saw him lose the ball waaaaay too easily. I was looking forward to seeing him since he's getting such a good run for his club- that performance didn't help his cause at all.
But aside from the back four getting split by diagonal runs/balls too often- and that's been the case other times with that central pairing (or at least Goodson), IMO- they played well and improved as the night went on. I liked the Germans and their willingness to go forward, even if it meant putting the US under pressure when they lost the ball and were out of position. Nice not to be freaked out by our LB these days. And Cherundolo seemed to figure out that #10 as the game went on and ended up playing very well. I was worried that Spector wouldn't be able to catch up to the game, but wow- he was throwing himself everywhere.
Overall a lot to work on, but I think I'm starting to see some of the JK philosphy start to sink in with the desire for guys to hold the ball and look for the pass... again, even if it didn't really work out too well on the night. A healthy Holden and LD and even Germany Jones... puts that MF in good shape. Gonzalez getting hurt sucks, but hopefully Ream can log some minutes at Bolton to add depth to the central D- especially since we seem to be fairly flush with outside backs at the moment. We still need a forward to go with or replace Jozy- and I don't know where that's going to come from.
Some thoughts on the game:
I think the "bunker" mentality that might easily be gleaned from the game is acutally a disservice to what the US was trying to do. It genuinely seemed to me that they were trying to play the ball and possess, but Italy's defensive presence and the US's repeated mis-steps and obviousness on the ball contributed to giving up the possession too cheaply. Several guys- Shea in particular- seemed like they just weren't up to the speed of the game and looked nervous in possession... first touches were ok, but their next touches and passes were so easily predicted- it made Italy's job very easy.
But- I was still very happy with what they appeared to be trying to do- possess and move forward in numbers. They'll need to work on some of their movement off the ball and anticipation of where the 2nd and 3rd passes should go- and try to make those passes either happen faster or better disguised. I'd also like to see the players move forward with a little more conviction and willingness to try the unexpected- Italy could often just stand off the player, knowing they weren't going to turn, and defend the next pass- which as mentioned was typically predictable.
And my god- Michael Bradley. Maybe because he's used to playing against those guys, but wow- he was unbelievable on both sides of the ball- soooo confident. His touch was perfect and his anticipation of the game was almost perfect too. Constantly relieved pressure for the US by clogging the space defensively or holding and playing the ball offensively. And as opposed to most of his team-mates, he was constantly surprising me with where he played the ball. Partnered really well with Edu, especially as the game progressed and they conspired to fill the holes in front of the back four. Downside for me- I still would prefer him to be more advanced than Edu; he's been playing the deep man for Chievo and they both looked like they were too deep to create positive space offensively too much of the game. but of course, Italy had the team under pressure, so a lot of that was needed. But easy MoM pick of Bradley for me- best game I can recall from him.
I thought Jozy was up and down. Had a lot- too many- lost balls where he either couldn't hold, or gave the ball up on a poor pass... but then he'd get into a sweet spot and do everything right for a number of minutes. Still a work in progress, and I'm still a fan. I still think he's not going to be a solo, target forward type and needs Deuce or somebody running closer off him for him to be at his best. But that win and layoff for the goal was excellent- as was Dempsey's understanding of adjusting his run slightly to get into that space to shoot. And how many goals has Dempsey hit this year just like that one for Fulham- coming back across his body to shoot into the opposite corner. Dempsey is obviously feeling confident- I hope this form continues for WCQ... he's playing like he belongs on the world stage. Looking fowrad to seeing Boyd as well- I liked the limited action he put in, aside from his one one-on-one that failed- due to lack of confidence, IMO.
Shea looked like he was in pre/off-season form and off the pace of the game all night, which is understandle. But I'll fault him for being too simple with the ball- usually the opposite for him. I'd like to see him take guys on more- use his pace and long legs to beat players down the flank... but it just didn't happen last night. He was a black hole with the ball and killed a lot of possession for the US. And Italians routinely went flying down his side exposing the US defense. And Sascha... woof. How many times did he get caught ball-watching? And I don't think he was able to put one pass together- saw him lose the ball waaaaay too easily. I was looking forward to seeing him since he's getting such a good run for his club- that performance didn't help his cause at all.
But aside from the back four getting split by diagonal runs/balls too often- and that's been the case other times with that central pairing (or at least Goodson), IMO- they played well and improved as the night went on. I liked the Germans and their willingness to go forward, even if it meant putting the US under pressure when they lost the ball and were out of position. Nice not to be freaked out by our LB these days. And Cherundolo seemed to figure out that #10 as the game went on and ended up playing very well. I was worried that Spector wouldn't be able to catch up to the game, but wow- he was throwing himself everywhere.
Overall a lot to work on, but I think I'm starting to see some of the JK philosphy start to sink in with the desire for guys to hold the ball and look for the pass... again, even if it didn't really work out too well on the night. A healthy Holden and LD and even Germany Jones... puts that MF in good shape. Gonzalez getting hurt sucks, but hopefully Ream can log some minutes at Bolton to add depth to the central D- especially since we seem to be fairly flush with outside backs at the moment. We still need a forward to go with or replace Jozy- and I don't know where that's going to come from.
El Floppo
Footballguy
great stuff
fwiw- I think Edu and MB had a lot to do with Italy not being able to get the ball to their forwards, aside from the diagonal balls through/over the top fo the back 4. I honestly think even Balotelli would have been limited from both getting the ball initially and having any time/space to turn. Two central MFs playing deep tends to do taht.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
While I think the two deep midfielders will limit the passes coming into him, some would, and we all know he has the "class" to receive the ball with his back to the goal, make a turn, a move and get freed up for a 15 yard placement type shot. He uses his body very well and has a good touch. That could be a problem for most CBs outside of Gerard Pique and John Terry.
El Floppo
Footballguy
absolutely. I'm just saying that with two central MFs playing so deep- unless he's also making the diagonal runs away from them, by the time he gets the ball to turn, one of the MFs is there to help defend. At least with how they played last night.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
This is just awful.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
This is one of the best players in the US system. I don't quite understand what he will be doing until he turns 18.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
He sounds like a prodigy, and those prodigies are exploited in European soccer from an early age. You can often find 18 and 19 y.o. playing striker at a very high level. Much more rare to find a non-attacking player be elite at that age.
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
Does he hold dual citizenship/eligilbility?
Moe.
Footballguy
I too would like to know which country is going to steal him.
Ted Lange as your Bartender
Footballguy
Looked it up - his parents are from El Salvador
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I think prodigy is way too strong a word. He is a good to great player at his age but that is as far as I am willing to go. Granted I have only seen him play three times, you may have seen him play much more.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
That is better than Honduras, Mexico or Costa Rica. He would be taking a significant step backwards if he decided for ELS over US IMO. And unlike Najar, Flores was born in the US and unlike Rossi, he has been here his whole life.I don't think there is a lot of risk of losing this one. I would be much more afraid of him wasting away in Europe than losing him to another country. Hopefully where ever he lands, he can be loaned to somewhere he can play. I don't even like that he is not in a professional environment playing now like Fagundez is, much less at 18.
NMYMND
Footballguy
Washington Post article that focused on Flores but also touches on other players that have options/face pressure to choose. I had a book when I was a kid on the World Cup, and it talked about how Italy's 34 and 38 teams had Brazilian-born players on the roster due to their ancestry.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I was going to watch the DVR'd USA / Italy match that I missed, but my DVR didn't record it. Instead I'm watching Newell's Old Boys vs. Boca.
I like Diego Mateo so far. He's a pretty good defensive midfielder, which is my favorite position (as long you don't play with 2 of them). Also, I don't like Riquelme.
I like Diego Mateo so far. He's a pretty good defensive midfielder, which is my favorite position (as long you don't play with 2 of them). Also, I don't like Riquelme.
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