El Floppo
Footballguy
nice observations
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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter jpeace121
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B Maverick
Footballguy
I agree and I admit I dont watch enough MLS to know what domestic players deserve to be there (or enough non EPL/CL games as well) so I leave that up to you and a few others here. BUT I am reserving judgement on Klinsmann and the team until qualifying comes and we get a real view of the team we should see come WC time. I am not surprised it still looks like a bradley team, thats where we are starting and have had 8 (i think?) years of that style. I am glad they are playing better teams like France and hope that continues. Looking for more views of different players and seeing how they fit in too...
Hey Thanks,nice observations
The Z Machine
Footballguy
There have been some redonkulous goals thus far in the Germany / Ukraine game. Two abosolute scorchers. Ukraine is taking it to the manshaft tonight, and are up 3-1 at the half. I saw the first half of the US game, but the US played pretty well. How did it end?
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
ESPN Player Ratings
Player ratings: (0-10; 10=best)
G Tim Howard, 7.5: Was sharp once again, saving a shot from Karim Benzema late in the first half and making an astonishing save from his free kick in the 56th minute. Did spill a shot from the French forward in the second half, but the rebound was squandered. Could do little on Remy's game winner.
D Timothy Chandler, 5.5: Did his best to get forward, but there wasn't enough end product. Took care of defensive responsibilities for the most part, but fell asleep on Benzema late in the first half, which resulted in a good opportunity.
D Carlos Bocanegra, 6.5: Made an impressive return to French soil, putting out plenty of fires, although he did fade down the stretch, especially in the air. Despite his advancing age, his lock on one of the center back spots seems iron-clad.
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D Clarence Goodson, 6: Solid in the air and recovered well to snuff out an early Jeremy Menez opportunity. Probably could have done more to stop Remy on the goal, but overall did little to hurt his reputation as a reliable option going forward.
D Steve Cherundolo, 5: Not the first player to struggle against Franck Ribery, but wasn't that impressive on the ball, either, especially from set pieces. That said, he held up well enough defensively.
M Danny Williams, 3.5: His arrival on the U.S. team was announced with plenty of fanfare, but he has yet to justify Klinsmann's praise. Hustled on defense but far too wasteful with the ball.
M Kyle Beckerman, 5: Shaky with his distribution in the first half and struggled to keep up at times, but he grew into the game a bit in the second half. Stepped into passing lanes well and had two critical blocks of goal-bound shots. Still, it seems as though Michael Bradley would be a better option in this role.
M Maurice Edu, 5.5: Delivered some telling passes when given time, but that was in short supply. Played well on defense.
M Brek Shea, 4: Didn't do much to impress the European scouts in attendance. Was rarely a factor with the ball, although he did track back well on occasion.
F Jozy Altidore, 6.5: One of the few attacking bright spots. Did well with the few opportunities he had with the ball at his feet, and his holdup play got better as the game progressed. He even released Clint Dempsey with a clever backheel. On another day, Altidore might have won a first-half penalty.
F Clint Dempsey, 6.5: Was one of the few players to show any comfort on the ball. He was guilty of trying to do too much at times, but got little help from his teammates -- or the referee.
Subs:
M Jermaine Jones, 5.5: Showed a bit more composure on the ball than his midfield cohorts and helped spur the U.S. to a late flurry at the end.
M DaMarcus Beasley, 5.5: Put in one telling cross that Dempsey probably should have headed on goal himself. Remains a viable option off the bench.
M Fabian Johnson, 5: Had little impact after coming on.
F Edson Buddle, 5.5: His introduction helped stretch the France defense a bit more, winning a corner kick as well as getting in good positions out wide. Needed to be sharper with his crossing, however.
Player ratings: (0-10; 10=best)
G Tim Howard, 7.5: Was sharp once again, saving a shot from Karim Benzema late in the first half and making an astonishing save from his free kick in the 56th minute. Did spill a shot from the French forward in the second half, but the rebound was squandered. Could do little on Remy's game winner.
D Timothy Chandler, 5.5: Did his best to get forward, but there wasn't enough end product. Took care of defensive responsibilities for the most part, but fell asleep on Benzema late in the first half, which resulted in a good opportunity.
D Carlos Bocanegra, 6.5: Made an impressive return to French soil, putting out plenty of fires, although he did fade down the stretch, especially in the air. Despite his advancing age, his lock on one of the center back spots seems iron-clad.
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D Clarence Goodson, 6: Solid in the air and recovered well to snuff out an early Jeremy Menez opportunity. Probably could have done more to stop Remy on the goal, but overall did little to hurt his reputation as a reliable option going forward.
D Steve Cherundolo, 5: Not the first player to struggle against Franck Ribery, but wasn't that impressive on the ball, either, especially from set pieces. That said, he held up well enough defensively.
M Danny Williams, 3.5: His arrival on the U.S. team was announced with plenty of fanfare, but he has yet to justify Klinsmann's praise. Hustled on defense but far too wasteful with the ball.
M Kyle Beckerman, 5: Shaky with his distribution in the first half and struggled to keep up at times, but he grew into the game a bit in the second half. Stepped into passing lanes well and had two critical blocks of goal-bound shots. Still, it seems as though Michael Bradley would be a better option in this role.
M Maurice Edu, 5.5: Delivered some telling passes when given time, but that was in short supply. Played well on defense.
M Brek Shea, 4: Didn't do much to impress the European scouts in attendance. Was rarely a factor with the ball, although he did track back well on occasion.
F Jozy Altidore, 6.5: One of the few attacking bright spots. Did well with the few opportunities he had with the ball at his feet, and his holdup play got better as the game progressed. He even released Clint Dempsey with a clever backheel. On another day, Altidore might have won a first-half penalty.
F Clint Dempsey, 6.5: Was one of the few players to show any comfort on the ball. He was guilty of trying to do too much at times, but got little help from his teammates -- or the referee.
Subs:
M Jermaine Jones, 5.5: Showed a bit more composure on the ball than his midfield cohorts and helped spur the U.S. to a late flurry at the end.
M DaMarcus Beasley, 5.5: Put in one telling cross that Dempsey probably should have headed on goal himself. Remains a viable option off the bench.
M Fabian Johnson, 5: Had little impact after coming on.
F Edson Buddle, 5.5: His introduction helped stretch the France defense a bit more, winning a corner kick as well as getting in good positions out wide. Needed to be sharper with his crossing, however.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Just finished watching the US game. My random, assorted thoughts:
- MOTM: Carlos Bocanegra and Steve Cherundolo - might be going a bit off the grid here, but I think they did a tremendous job. They both really showed their experience and class today. Cherundolo effectively neutralized Ribery and took him out of the game...really a great 1v1 night for him.
- Tim Howard had a solid game, a number of nice saves. That one save on the free kick was insane. Nothing out of the ordinary for him.
- I like Timmy Chandler, but wow, he was abysmal (IMO) tonight. Caught out of position on multiple French chances (he allowed Benzema to get behind him for a great chance and was in no-man's land on the Remy goal). Offensively, he just looked out of his element, gave the ball away way too much, too little composure. Bleh. Hopefully just an off-night for him.
- Edu and Beckerman sure faded fast, eh? I thought they were fantastic for the first 30 minutes or so, but really sorta faded away and I'm not sure why. Edu was dispossessed too easily and too often in the central midfield, and Beckerman just wasn't involved enough. That may be due to his deep-lying role, though.
- Not sure how I feel about Danny Williams. I saw some play that I liked and some that I didn't like. My jury verdict is still out.
- Altidore had a great game, and I LOVED how well he was holding up play. He finally looked like a target player, dare I say that he reminded me of Brian Ching a lot today....hopefully he can translate that into some goal-scoring. He really just looks like he's got a ton of confidence and looks to be in the best shape in years.
- There really just appears to be a lack of cohesion offensively. I don't know if this is due to the team missing Donovan or what. Dempsey was trying to do waaaaaaaay too much by himself tonight, and overlooked a number of good, simple passes in favor of 1v1 attacks that didn't work. It looked like the French made him a target tonight and tried to take him out of the game, and I think it worked.
- Overall I don't think it was a markedly poor performance, it just looked like a disorganized (offensively) one. Defensively, the team looks better-organized than I can ever remember; prior USMNT teams would've been down 1-0 within 15 minutes against a team like this. But Klinsmann's gotta do something to score some goals. I realize some of that is on the players, but Jozy isn't the kind of player who can sit up top and poach some goals at this point in his career and Dempsey almost looks like he doesn't trust him.
- MOTM: Carlos Bocanegra and Steve Cherundolo - might be going a bit off the grid here, but I think they did a tremendous job. They both really showed their experience and class today. Cherundolo effectively neutralized Ribery and took him out of the game...really a great 1v1 night for him.
- Tim Howard had a solid game, a number of nice saves. That one save on the free kick was insane. Nothing out of the ordinary for him.
- I like Timmy Chandler, but wow, he was abysmal (IMO) tonight. Caught out of position on multiple French chances (he allowed Benzema to get behind him for a great chance and was in no-man's land on the Remy goal). Offensively, he just looked out of his element, gave the ball away way too much, too little composure. Bleh. Hopefully just an off-night for him.
- Edu and Beckerman sure faded fast, eh? I thought they were fantastic for the first 30 minutes or so, but really sorta faded away and I'm not sure why. Edu was dispossessed too easily and too often in the central midfield, and Beckerman just wasn't involved enough. That may be due to his deep-lying role, though.
- Not sure how I feel about Danny Williams. I saw some play that I liked and some that I didn't like. My jury verdict is still out.
- Altidore had a great game, and I LOVED how well he was holding up play. He finally looked like a target player, dare I say that he reminded me of Brian Ching a lot today....hopefully he can translate that into some goal-scoring. He really just looks like he's got a ton of confidence and looks to be in the best shape in years.
- There really just appears to be a lack of cohesion offensively. I don't know if this is due to the team missing Donovan or what. Dempsey was trying to do waaaaaaaay too much by himself tonight, and overlooked a number of good, simple passes in favor of 1v1 attacks that didn't work. It looked like the French made him a target tonight and tried to take him out of the game, and I think it worked.
- Overall I don't think it was a markedly poor performance, it just looked like a disorganized (offensively) one. Defensively, the team looks better-organized than I can ever remember; prior USMNT teams would've been down 1-0 within 15 minutes against a team like this. But Klinsmann's gotta do something to score some goals. I realize some of that is on the players, but Jozy isn't the kind of player who can sit up top and poach some goals at this point in his career and Dempsey almost looks like he doesn't trust him.
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Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I wonder if I was watching a different game than the ESPN guys
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Nice.
I don't know if I mentioned that I missed the first half, so I can only comment on the 2nd.I really hope Bocanegra has the legs to make it to 2014- the defense noticeably withers without him in there- usually by way of poor spacing between the 4 backs allowing large and easy gaps for the opposition to get behind.
Chandler seemed off- his work with the ball wasn't what we've gotten used to with him. I wonder if France was just putting more and faster pressure on them, which put the spotlight on players' deficiencies? With so little first team experience, maybe Chandler just hasn't gotten up to the pace of top pros yet? Same seemed to be true of Williams, who I really liked seeing live vs Ecuador- where he seemed to understand the runs of the forwards and what ball would best utilize them... combined very well with both the forwards and MF then and seemed to defend well too. Looked kinda lost vs France though and wasn't hooking up with anybody really.
Edu and Beckerman... also seemed off the pace of the game. We know that already about Kyle, who just lacks the step to keep up with his, IMO, superior tactical sense and vision. But Beckerman will only lose pace as he ages- I would really like see other players tried out in there instead of him as WCQ approaches; Benny, Jones, hopefully Holden... any others? Edu... I'd have to look back, but I think he plays at his best combined with MB- haven't thought about why. I have noticed a trend with him though- he seems to be trying more offensively lately, and failing more- lots of errant passes and getting stripped in possession. Maybe it's good long term that he's trying, just to build the experience? Given that he's getting regular minutes for Rangers, I'd think he'd already be there though.
Yeah- Altidore has been looking better and better playing up top by himself. His abilities to find the runs, hold the ball and turn have been improving every year- but noticably more now that he's getting regular PT. I still think I've seen him at his best in combination with another forward (Davies, not Agudelo) or MF running closely off him (LD more than Deuce... although that was a nice backheel to free him up). If he's up there by himself, the team HAS TO commit at least two MFs (one for support, and one for the 2nd pass) to help him or we'll continue to see him isolated and the US attack stagnate.
Totally agree about the lack of cohesion going forward. Not sure if this is due to formation or personnel, but the MF has just not consistently linked well between the back four and the especially the forward(s). I'd still like to see one of the central MFs pushed higher up- not sure if this is a product of players being pushed back by necessity against strong opposition or some predefined by JK, but the flat 2 central MFs under Bradley was a weakness, IMO and seems to be continuing under JK. A higher central MF would provide better spacing to provide the support I just mentioned that Jozy needs LD definitely gives the team it's best solution, personnel-wise and allows Dempsey more room to do the things he does- and his absence brings the attacking level of the team down a notch for sure.
And yeah- JK has to get his team doing something to score more goals... but more importantly to me- they need to just be creating the opportunities to score the goals. I'm amazed- given JK's edict of playing possession/attacking soccer- that the US has created so few chances under his leadership. Again- given what JK said he was trying to do, I'd be happier with the US giving up more goals and losing by trying to get forward more. But that hasn't happened and so far I'm disappointed and beginning to lose patience. But there's still time and I genuinely hope to see improvements in the attack over the next months before WCQ begin.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
I'm kinda fired up for this England/Spain friendly.
El Floppo
Footballguy
thanks for the reminder.when does the US play again?and I do love me some FA cup
tuesday-early. about noon eastern
Sebowski
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Did anyone else watch the Ukraine / Germany game?
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Oh and BTW, Spain is kicking the crap out of England right now, although there's no goals yet.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
And England draws first blood on a nice inswinging free kick. It was a bad play by Reina though IMO. He was too slow to react and didn't get to the post. I honestly think that Iker would have gotten a hand on it.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Maybe Spain will actually think about putting some shots on frame instead of dancing around with it so much.
Oh and all you Ramos haters should take note this game. The boy is on fire with his play. I don't think he likes England.
Oh and all you Ramos haters should take note this game. The boy is on fire with his play. I don't think he likes England.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Spain is a different team without Xavi. Cesc cannot fill his shoes, as shown this game. He's got a better shot and movement to the goal, but he can't orchestrate and move the ball around the midfield like Xavi. No one can, but it's crucial for Spain's game IMO.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
England has shown good resolve behind the ball this half after going up. Lescott has really impressed IMO. Janelka looks like he's going to make a mistake any minute. Welbeck could really develop into something special too.
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Agree with most of Zmachines thoughts there, I think this is a huge win for England too. Tons of pressure in front of a massive home crowd, lots of press giving this English side no shot, and honestly England may not have fielded their "b" side, but this was a far cry from their best 11, while Spain started all the usual suspects out there.
Spain dominated possession, but tbh, they had few high quality chances.
A few of my thoughts:
Xavi is simply incredible. I don't follow Spanish soccer all that closely, but every time I watch him play he just amazes me, he's grown on me as probably my second favorite player, and the only guy on Barca I root for.
Glen Johnson is awful, okay, maybe awful is too strong, but I don't see the love for this guy at all. A few years back I thought he showed some promise as an attacking defender, but now I don't see it.
Jagielka is a nice player, but not world class either.
I'll still bang the Walcott is overrated drum too.
I mildly root for England's national team, probably my 3rd or 4th favorite team, and I was glad to see them win this one.
Spain dominated possession, but tbh, they had few high quality chances.
A few of my thoughts:
Xavi is simply incredible. I don't follow Spanish soccer all that closely, but every time I watch him play he just amazes me, he's grown on me as probably my second favorite player, and the only guy on Barca I root for.
Glen Johnson is awful, okay, maybe awful is too strong, but I don't see the love for this guy at all. A few years back I thought he showed some promise as an attacking defender, but now I don't see it.
Jagielka is a nice player, but not world class either.
I'll still bang the Walcott is overrated drum too.
I mildly root for England's national team, probably my 3rd or 4th favorite team, and I was glad to see them win this one.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Skipping your kid's wedding for a friendly is a pretty **** move. Euros or the WC, OK, maybe you can make an argument.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The next round of WCQing for Concacaf is set. Only surprise us that T&T is already out. That program has fallen on hard times.
Here are the groups for the next round. Top two from each move on to the hex
US Jaimaica Guatemala Antigua and Barbuda
Mexico Costa Rica El Salvador Guyana
Honduras Cuba Canada Panama
The Honduras group is pretty interesting. Any of the 4 teams could qualify.
Here are the groups for the next round. Top two from each move on to the hex
US Jaimaica Guatemala Antigua and Barbuda
Mexico Costa Rica El Salvador Guyana
Honduras Cuba Canada Panama
The Honduras group is pretty interesting. Any of the 4 teams could qualify.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
One surprise in South American qualifying as Argentina was tied at home by bottom of the table Bolivia.
Argentina only has 4 points after the three games (2 of which at home) but the competition is so cut throat that they are still in second out of 9 teams with those 4 points.
Argentina only has 4 points after the three games (2 of which at home) but the competition is so cut throat that they are still in second out of 9 teams with those 4 points.
El Floppo
Footballguy
pretty sure Lescott has/had some kind of "issue" resulting in that hairline. It's still better than Gervihno's.totally agree about Parker who looked great.I thouyght Wellbeck was hit and miss- made great, pacey runs and was capable and confident w/ the ball at his feet (more promising than Dent IMO) but repeatedly mis-trapped the ball especially off his chest.Ramos is a ####### punk.'The Z Machine said:
This cannot be said enough.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
LOL. Probably.But I think his move to center back this year has been pretty outstanding. Madrid has certainly not missed Carvalho as of late. I don't think there's a pair of CBs with better ball skills than Piqué and Ramos. They're liable to give up one or two stupid plays a game, including late tackles, stupid shoves and mismarking a man, but the athleticism, technical skills, and passion is there in spades for both those guys.Now Marcelo? He's a punk.
Eephus
Footballguy
He was hit by a car as a child. Hair didn't grow back from the scar tissue.pretty sure Lescott has/had some kind of "issue" resulting in that hairline. It's still better than Gervihno's.'The Z Machine said:
theprince
Footballguy
thanks for the info. great respect for himHe was hit by a car as a child. Hair didn't grow back from the scar tissue.pretty sure Lescott has/had some kind of "issue" resulting in that hairline. It's still better than Gervihno's.'The Z Machine said:
El Floppo
Footballguy
So what happened to Gervinho?He was hit by a car as a child. Hair didn't grow back from the scar tissue.pretty sure Lescott has/had some kind of "issue" resulting in that hairline. It's still better than Gervihno's.'The Z Machine said:
Mjolnirs
Footballguy
I watched it of course. Ukraine really put on a good show and took it to Germany. I like how Ukraine are up 3-1 at the half, Löw gives them about 20 minutes in the second half then sends on Podolski and Müller and gets the 3-3.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Next year marks the 4th year that the Seattle Sounders will be in existence. The Sounders have a feature that I am unsure exists in any other US team, regardless of sport.
Every 4 years, an elected group of supporters will decide whether to keep or fire the GM. This was one of the items Drew Carey requested before becoming a minority owner in the side.
I don't think the GM has a ton to worry about though. Even though they have struggled in the MLS Playoffs, they already have three US Open Cups and a trip to the CCL quarterfinals under their belt.
In an interview with the Seattle GM this week he confirmed that they are 99% sure to expand the capacity by another 2k next year and that they hope to announce the replacement of their god awful surface in a couple of weeks.
Every 4 years, an elected group of supporters will decide whether to keep or fire the GM. This was one of the items Drew Carey requested before becoming a minority owner in the side.
I don't think the GM has a ton to worry about though. Even though they have struggled in the MLS Playoffs, they already have three US Open Cups and a trip to the CCL quarterfinals under their belt.
In an interview with the Seattle GM this week he confirmed that they are 99% sure to expand the capacity by another 2k next year and that they hope to announce the replacement of their god awful surface in a couple of weeks.
El Floppo
Footballguy
MLS goals of the year nominees.
Disappointed Agudelo's Henry-esque turn and shoot goal isn't up there.
I voted Hasli- astonishing goal, IMO.
Disappointed Agudelo's Henry-esque turn and shoot goal isn't up there.
I voted Hasli- astonishing goal, IMO.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I don't think any player in the world can fill Xavi's shoes.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Agudelo's goal was knocked in the round of 16. It was a very long process to get to the final 4 you are now voting on. http://www.mlssoccer.com/gotw/goty2011'El Floppo said:
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I am trying to find some positives out of the US's current run of results which are as bad as any I can remember for such a long stretch since I think the late 80's very early 90's, but I am struggling.
I guess all I can be thankful of is that it is not two years from now during the hex. If they are playing at this level next year, they should still get a top two spot in their WCQing group, but if this continues until the summer of 2013, I would be scared of coming in 4th or worse in the hex. Luckily two years is a pretty long time.
I guess all I can be thankful of is that it is not two years from now during the hex. If they are playing at this level next year, they should still get a top two spot in their WCQing group, but if this continues until the summer of 2013, I would be scared of coming in 4th or worse in the hex. Luckily two years is a pretty long time.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I'm visualizing Kramer doing Karate here...My U12 team won our league's City Cup.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Yeah. This is the mood I was trying to convey as well. So far, I'm not seeing any kind of "stamp" getting put into place that reinforces what JK said he would be trying to do: more flowing attacking possessing soccer. Seems almost opposite at this point minus some personnel decisions (Shea and... and...)- wihtout looking at the stats, it seems like they're creating a lot less chances and possessing less. They had a nice 2nd half vs Mexico in that first game where it seemed the future was limitless... and then nothing. But as Andy says, this run goes back to Bradley's tenure too so maybe it's something endemic with the players more than the coaching or tactical approach. If the US is losing to Panama and CR at home and not creating many chances vs anybody... somethings gotta give, or this is going to be a potentially brutal WCQ. Hopefully the US camps actually have been productive for those players and we'll see the work come to fruitiion when it's needed- in WCQ next year. :fingerscrossed:
Sebowski
Footballguy
I'm visualizing Kramer doing Karate here...My U12 team won our league's City Cup.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The NE Revolution hired Jay Heaps as their new head coach.
Not sure whether to laugh or cry. He had to be the absolute cheapest option. No coaching experience at all and was already working for the Krafts as a horrible color commentator.
Not sure whether to laugh or cry. He had to be the absolute cheapest option. No coaching experience at all and was already working for the Krafts as a horrible color commentator.
jonessed
Footballguy
He's still by far the favorite. The betting odds on him are pretty much a slam dunk at this point.I hate to see him leave Tottenham, but Tottenham seem to have risen to the point where they are attracting Ancelotti, Benitez, etc. caliber coaches so at least they will have the opportunity at a good replacement.
El Floppo
Footballguy
um... whoa. did Heaps even ever assistant coach? I mean, I know he was supposed to be a smart guy and everything- and I always appreciated the way he played- but head coach? I don't recall if Jason Kreis had any experience prior to his appointment, but he was a brilliant player who very clearly understood how to play te game. Heaps had guts and hustle... so that's good, I guess?
fwiw- was talking to another dad at my 4yo son's soccer "class" the other day (too young for a team, so they run classes... I actually really like the program, and his current coach in particular)... and find out he's a total NYRB fanboy (was wearing a team scarf to the practice, has season tickets etc). We get to talking about the team this year with lots of gnashing of teeth and tearing out of hair, and I bring up Backe. This guy seemed to think management was pursuing Nichols as a smart combo of MLS experience/know-how and European sensibilities. It hadn't occurred to me before, but I wouldn't mind that move.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
No experience in any level of coaching for Heaps. He retired and went right into broadcasting. Sounds like Ralston wanted more than minimum wage so he was out for the Krafts :( . I have not heard the Nichols rumor. That is an interesting one.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
US will play Panama in Panama on Jan 25. The US team might be all MLS players like in previous Jan friendlies.
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