***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (8 Viewers)

[GoFishTN]

I think offsides is a more pressing use of technology than goals personally, but I'm not sure how it would be implemented.

 

[jonessed]

For those calling Young's play a dive, if it had been Everton vs Fulham or Tottenham vs Newcastle do you think you would feel different? Not talking the red, just the "foul/dive"? Is it because United is percieved to get the calls other teams dont?ETA just like I believe it was a foul, mostly because I am a striker and have played there my whole life, but also admittedly may be tainted as a United fan, just want to gauge how others see their preferences based on who they are fans of or teams they hate.

Feel different how? A dive is pretty much a dive. It's terrible for the game. Bale dives too much, although to be fair players like Walcott and Bale who fly down the wings go flailing when they get clipped. I think sometimes they get themselves up in the air when they see contact coming just so they don't get annhiliated. He has been known to dive though and I know fans do not like it. He gets hammered on the Tottenham forums when he does it.The FA seems to encourage this behavior though. Derry got a red, Young earned a penalty, and upon review the FA left the red card on Derry and did nothing to Young. They are basically telling these players to dive. I believe there is a serious disconnect between the FA and the fans to be honest.This is aside from the big teams/players getting more calls (which they do). It's part of sports. It happens in the NBA and the NFL I really don't see why it would be so strange to see it happen in the EPL. I don't think it's a conpiracy, I think it's due to pressure. You screw Wigan and you get your name in the paper and you piss off a handful of people, you screw United and you piss off 25% of the country and you get hammered in every big paper in the country for months. Seems pretty natural which side you are going to err on, especially during the end of the season.Just look at recent results. Chelsea were given two goals against Wigan to win 2-1 and a goal to Fulham for a 1-1 draw. United were handed a win against Fulham and given an automatic win against QPR. That's all just in the last two weeks. It's not like these calls were debatable. They were flat out obvious. How else do you explain it?

 

[guru_007]

Messi with his 39th in the first half today.

 

[The Gator]

What a game at Ewood Park...Liverpool go up 2-0 in the 17th minute. Doni gets sent off after tacking down Hoilett who was sent free from a bad Flanagan back pass. Jones comes in and saves the Yakubu penalty, then Yakubu scores minuts later.

Should be an intersting second half

 

[B Maverick]

For those calling Young's play a dive, if it had been Everton vs Fulham or Tottenham vs Newcastle do you think you would feel different? Not talking the red, just the "foul/dive"? Is it because United is percieved to get the calls other teams dont?ETA just like I believe it was a foul, mostly because I am a striker and have played there my whole life, but also admittedly may be tainted as a United fan, just want to gauge how others see their preferences based on who they are fans of or teams they hate.

Feel different how? A dive is pretty much a dive. It's terrible for the game. Bale dives too much, although to be fair players like Walcott and Bale who fly down the wings go flailing when they get clipped. I think sometimes they get themselves up in the air when they see contact coming just so they don't get annhiliated. He has been known to dive though and I know fans do not like it. He gets hammered on the Tottenham forums when he does it.The FA seems to encourage this behavior though. Derry got a red, Young earned a penalty, and upon review the FA left the red card on Derry and did nothing to Young. They are basically telling these players to dive. I believe there is a serious disconnect between the FA and the fans to be honest.This is aside from the big teams/players getting more calls (which they do). It's part of sports. It happens in the NBA and the NFL I really don't see why it would be so strange to see it happen in the EPL. I don't think it's a conpiracy, I think it's due to pressure. You screw Wigan and you get your name in the paper and you piss off a handful of people, you screw United and you piss off 25% of the country and you get hammered in every big paper in the country for months. Seems pretty natural which side you are going to err on, especially during the end of the season.Just look at recent results. Chelsea were given two goals against Wigan to win 2-1 and a goal to Fulham for a 1-1 draw. United were handed a win against Fulham and given an automatic win against QPR. That's all just in the last two weeks. It's not like these calls were debatable. They were flat out obvious. How else do you explain it?

I agree with this although I still do not believe Young dove. It was a push in the side that turned him enough to go down. Its what forwards are taught... get in the box, take a player on and you are in position for a shot, a goal or a foul. I have not seen him go down enough to call him a diver like Ronaldo or even Nani. But as I said I may be looking through my United glasses but also looking at it from the position I played (and still do).And thats why I asked, since everyone looks at things from their own perspective. Had it been a Blackburn player going down vs Liverpool would the guile and calls for him to be drawn and quartered be as prevelant?

 

[B Maverick]

and just to add to the fun....

Balotelli is now only expected to see only a 3 match ban. Guess who City play when Balotelli is eligible to play? UNITED.

And if you believe Mancini will never pick Balotelli to play again, keep in mind he also said Tevez will never play for City again....

 

[guru_007]

Pretty sure they are playing "Sweet Georgia Brown" at the Barca game.

unreal

 

[The Gator]

Liverpool keeper gives away another penalty

He only gets a yellow this time

 

[B Maverick]

Liverpool keeper gives away another penalty He only gets a yellow this time

another red and they dont have any keepers for the next couple games, including the FA Cup

 

[jonessed]

For those calling Young's play a dive, if it had been Everton vs Fulham or Tottenham vs Newcastle do you think you would feel different? Not talking the red, just the "foul/dive"? Is it because United is percieved to get the calls other teams dont?ETA just like I believe it was a foul, mostly because I am a striker and have played there my whole life, but also admittedly may be tainted as a United fan, just want to gauge how others see their preferences based on who they are fans of or teams they hate.

Feel different how? A dive is pretty much a dive. It's terrible for the game. Bale dives too much, although to be fair players like Walcott and Bale who fly down the wings go flailing when they get clipped. I think sometimes they get themselves up in the air when they see contact coming just so they don't get annhiliated. He has been known to dive though and I know fans do not like it. He gets hammered on the Tottenham forums when he does it.The FA seems to encourage this behavior though. Derry got a red, Young earned a penalty, and upon review the FA left the red card on Derry and did nothing to Young. They are basically telling these players to dive. I believe there is a serious disconnect between the FA and the fans to be honest.This is aside from the big teams/players getting more calls (which they do). It's part of sports. It happens in the NBA and the NFL I really don't see why it would be so strange to see it happen in the EPL. I don't think it's a conpiracy, I think it's due to pressure. You screw Wigan and you get your name in the paper and you piss off a handful of people, you screw United and you piss off 25% of the country and you get hammered in every big paper in the country for months. Seems pretty natural which side you are going to err on, especially during the end of the season.Just look at recent results. Chelsea were given two goals against Wigan to win 2-1 and a goal to Fulham for a 1-1 draw. United were handed a win against Fulham and given an automatic win against QPR. That's all just in the last two weeks. It's not like these calls were debatable. They were flat out obvious. How else do you explain it?

I agree with this although I still do not believe Young dove. It was a push in the side that turned him enough to go down. Its what forwards are taught... get in the box, take a player on and you are in position for a shot, a goal or a foul. I have not seen him go down enough to call him a diver like Ronaldo or even Nani. But as I said I may be looking through my United glasses but also looking at it from the position I played (and still do).And thats why I asked, since everyone looks at things from their own perspective. Had it been a Blackburn player going down vs Liverpool would the guile and calls for him to be drawn and quartered be as prevelant?

He was pretty well known as a diver at Villa. This isn't a new thing for him or a United thing. He's a diver, always has been.

 

[B Maverick]

For those calling Young's play a dive, if it had been Everton vs Fulham or Tottenham vs Newcastle do you think you would feel different? Not talking the red, just the "foul/dive"? Is it because United is percieved to get the calls other teams dont?ETA just like I believe it was a foul, mostly because I am a striker and have played there my whole life, but also admittedly may be tainted as a United fan, just want to gauge how others see their preferences based on who they are fans of or teams they hate.

Feel different how? A dive is pretty much a dive. It's terrible for the game. Bale dives too much, although to be fair players like Walcott and Bale who fly down the wings go flailing when they get clipped. I think sometimes they get themselves up in the air when they see contact coming just so they don't get annhiliated. He has been known to dive though and I know fans do not like it. He gets hammered on the Tottenham forums when he does it.The FA seems to encourage this behavior though. Derry got a red, Young earned a penalty, and upon review the FA left the red card on Derry and did nothing to Young. They are basically telling these players to dive. I believe there is a serious disconnect between the FA and the fans to be honest.This is aside from the big teams/players getting more calls (which they do). It's part of sports. It happens in the NBA and the NFL I really don't see why it would be so strange to see it happen in the EPL. I don't think it's a conpiracy, I think it's due to pressure. You screw Wigan and you get your name in the paper and you piss off a handful of people, you screw United and you piss off 25% of the country and you get hammered in every big paper in the country for months. Seems pretty natural which side you are going to err on, especially during the end of the season.Just look at recent results. Chelsea were given two goals against Wigan to win 2-1 and a goal to Fulham for a 1-1 draw. United were handed a win against Fulham and given an automatic win against QPR. That's all just in the last two weeks. It's not like these calls were debatable. They were flat out obvious. How else do you explain it?

I agree with this although I still do not believe Young dove. It was a push in the side that turned him enough to go down. Its what forwards are taught... get in the box, take a player on and you are in position for a shot, a goal or a foul. I have not seen him go down enough to call him a diver like Ronaldo or even Nani. But as I said I may be looking through my United glasses but also looking at it from the position I played (and still do).And thats why I asked, since everyone looks at things from their own perspective. Had it been a Blackburn player going down vs Liverpool would the guile and calls for him to be drawn and quartered be as prevelant?

He was pretty well known as a diver at Villa. This isn't a new thing for him or a United thing. He's a diver, always has been.

Fair enough.

 

[prefontaine]

I agree with this although I still do not believe Young dove. It was a push in the side that turned him enough to go down. Its what forwards are taught

please stop this. It was a dive no matter who it was. There is a lot of contact all over the pitch. The vast majority of it is incidental and not a foul. It's just the game. So just because there is a brush does not make it a foul and just because some players cynically dive doesn't make it okay. The contact was incidental at best and Young made a meal of it. It's cool if you don't want to define that as a dive but the vast majority of the football world does.

 

[The Gator]

Boom!

 

[Slapdash]

Pretty sure they are playing "Sweet Georgia Brown" at the Barca game.unreal

A little bit of revenge on Real Madrid's little brother for the earlier loss.

 

[NewlyRetired]

CONCACAF Announces Hosts For 2013 Youth ChampionshipsMexico will host the 2013 CONCACAF Under-20 Championship and Panama will be the site for the U-17 Championship, the Confederation announced on Tuesday.  The U-20's will kickoff on February 18th, 2013 running through March 2nd.  Puebla will be the host city, using the Estadio Cuauhtemoc and Estadio Universitario Lobos stadiums.  The top four advance to the 2013 FIFA Under-20 World Cup in Turkey.  The U-17 tournament starts on April 6th and runs through the 19th, with the Estadio Rommel Fernandez in Panama City and the Estadio Agustin Muquita Sanchez in La Chorrera serving as the venues.  The top four advance to the 2013 FIFA Under-17 World Cup in the U.A.E.

 

[B Maverick]

I agree with this although I still do not believe Young dove. It was a push in the side that turned him enough to go down. Its what forwards are taught

please stop this. It was a dive no matter who it was. There is a lot of contact all over the pitch. The vast majority of it is incidental and not a foul. It's just the game. So just because there is a brush does not make it a foul and just because some players cynically dive doesn't make it okay. The contact was incidental at best and Young made a meal of it. It's cool if you don't want to define that as a dive but the vast majority of the football world does.

very much agree with the bolded.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

For those calling Young's play a dive, if it had been Everton vs Fulham or Tottenham vs Newcastle do you think you would feel different? Not talking the red, just the "foul/dive"? Is it because United is percieved to get the calls other teams dont?ETA just like I believe it was a foul, mostly because I am a striker and have played there my whole life, but also admittedly may be tainted as a United fan, just want to gauge how others see their preferences based on who they are fans of or teams they hate.

Liverpool supporter and unabashed Man U hater, but there is no way that is anything but a dive. And I hate when Suarez does it.

 

[jonessed]

Liverpool keeper gives away another penalty He only gets a yellow this time

That was a red too. The ref was definitely lenient on that one.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Liverpool keeper gives away another penalty He only gets a yellow this time

That was a red too. The ref was definitely lenient on that one.

I thought that was a dive, too, but I wouldn't have been surprised if the ref gave it. Definitely think he told him "I could have sent you off there."

 

[The Z Machine]

Check out this footage of Pepe acting thuggish: http://www.as.com/futbol/video/excesos-pepe/20120410dasdasftb_22/Ves

 

[Moe.]

For those calling Young's play a dive, if it had been Everton vs Fulham or Tottenham vs Newcastle do you think you would feel different? Not talking the red, just the "foul/dive"? Is it because United is percieved to get the calls other teams dont?ETA just like I believe it was a foul, mostly because I am a striker and have played there my whole life, but also admittedly may be tainted as a United fan, just want to gauge how others see their preferences based on who they are fans of or teams they hate.

Feel different how? A dive is pretty much a dive. It's terrible for the game. Bale dives too much, although to be fair players like Walcott and Bale who fly down the wings go flailing when they get clipped. I think sometimes they get themselves up in the air when they see contact coming just so they don't get annhiliated. He has been known to dive though and I know fans do not like it. He gets hammered on the Tottenham forums when he does it.The FA seems to encourage this behavior though. Derry got a red, Young earned a penalty, and upon review the FA left the red card on Derry and did nothing to Young. They are basically telling these players to dive. I believe there is a serious disconnect between the FA and the fans to be honest.This is aside from the big teams/players getting more calls (which they do). It's part of sports. It happens in the NBA and the NFL I really don't see why it would be so strange to see it happen in the EPL. I don't think it's a conpiracy, I think it's due to pressure. You screw Wigan and you get your name in the paper and you piss off a handful of people, you screw United and you piss off 25% of the country and you get hammered in every big paper in the country for months. Seems pretty natural which side you are going to err on, especially during the end of the season.Just look at recent results. Chelsea were given two goals against Wigan to win 2-1 and a goal to Fulham for a 1-1 draw. United were handed a win against Fulham and given an automatic win against QPR. That's all just in the last two weeks. It's not like these calls were debatable. They were flat out obvious. How else do you explain it?

And thats why I asked, since everyone looks at things from their own perspective. Had it been a Blackburn player going down vs Liverpool would the guile and calls for him to be drawn and quartered be as prevelant?

lol. I don't really want to see his entrails on the ground and his body in pieces. That wasn't really serious. The main reason I was so pissed is I woke up early to watch the match and then it's just completely ruined within 15 minutes. He took a giant dump on my morning. To be honest though I think you're the one who would be reacting differently if it was a different team. I don't have a favorite EPL team so I could really care less whether it was United, Chelsea, Swansea, whatever.

 

[The Gator]

Liverpool keeper gives away another penalty He only gets a yellow this time

That was a red too. The ref was definitely lenient on that one.

Would have made the FA cup game REALLY interesting with Liverpool's top three keepers not available.

 

[jonessed]

Liverpool keeper gives away another penalty He only gets a yellow this time

That was a red too. The ref was definitely lenient on that one.

Would have made the FA cup game REALLY interesting with Liverpool's top three keepers not available.

It will be interesting as it is. That 3rd string keeper was definitely a bit sketchy out there.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Do we have any Houston area guys here? I love the look of the inside but not sure about the outside of the new stadium. The outside design is suppose to light up at night I think.

http://yfrog.com/mmkjhfpj:iphone

http://p.twimg.com/AqIlG6gCAAEiMMa.jpg:large

 

[NewlyRetired]

Ives is reporting what Ted stated would happen a month ago.

Chelsea will be the opponent this year for the All Star game in Philly.

 

[Slapdash]

Check out this footage of Pepe acting thuggish: http://www.as.com/futbol/video/excesos-pepe/20120410dasdasftb_22/Ves

Diving and then kicking your teammate telling you to get up is good shtick.

 

[The Z Machine]

Check out this footage of Pepe acting thuggish: http://www.as.com/futbol/video/excesos-pepe/20120410dasdasftb_22/Ves

Diving and then kicking your teammate telling you to get up is good shtick.

He's a certifiable D-Bag.

 

[B Maverick]

For those calling Young's play a dive, if it had been Everton vs Fulham or Tottenham vs Newcastle do you think you would feel different? Not talking the red, just the "foul/dive"? Is it because United is percieved to get the calls other teams dont?ETA just like I believe it was a foul, mostly because I am a striker and have played there my whole life, but also admittedly may be tainted as a United fan, just want to gauge how others see their preferences based on who they are fans of or teams they hate.

Feel different how? A dive is pretty much a dive. It's terrible for the game. Bale dives too much, although to be fair players like Walcott and Bale who fly down the wings go flailing when they get clipped. I think sometimes they get themselves up in the air when they see contact coming just so they don't get annhiliated. He has been known to dive though and I know fans do not like it. He gets hammered on the Tottenham forums when he does it.The FA seems to encourage this behavior though. Derry got a red, Young earned a penalty, and upon review the FA left the red card on Derry and did nothing to Young. They are basically telling these players to dive. I believe there is a serious disconnect between the FA and the fans to be honest.This is aside from the big teams/players getting more calls (which they do). It's part of sports. It happens in the NBA and the NFL I really don't see why it would be so strange to see it happen in the EPL. I don't think it's a conpiracy, I think it's due to pressure. You screw Wigan and you get your name in the paper and you piss off a handful of people, you screw United and you piss off 25% of the country and you get hammered in every big paper in the country for months. Seems pretty natural which side you are going to err on, especially during the end of the season.Just look at recent results. Chelsea were given two goals against Wigan to win 2-1 and a goal to Fulham for a 1-1 draw. United were handed a win against Fulham and given an automatic win against QPR. That's all just in the last two weeks. It's not like these calls were debatable. They were flat out obvious. How else do you explain it?

And thats why I asked, since everyone looks at things from their own perspective. Had it been a Blackburn player going down vs Liverpool would the guile and calls for him to be drawn and quartered be as prevelant?

lol. I don't really want to see his entrails on the ground and his body in pieces. That wasn't really serious. The main reason I was so pissed is I woke up early to watch the match and then it's just completely ruined within 15 minutes. He took a giant dump on my morning. To be honest though I think you're the one who would be reacting differently if it was a different team. I don't have a favorite EPL team so I could really care less whether it was United, Chelsea, Swansea, whatever.

You may be correct, and I fully admit that. Thats why I was asking. I guess I need to go back and look again? And I was just as pissed off at you that the game was ruined 15 mins in, although it was more due to not believing it should have been a red card. Plus any questionable call in favor of United makes the win tainted in the eyes of the haters.

 

[jonessed]

For those calling Young's play a dive, if it had been Everton vs Fulham or Tottenham vs Newcastle do you think you would feel different? Not talking the red, just the "foul/dive"? Is it because United is percieved to get the calls other teams dont?ETA just like I believe it was a foul, mostly because I am a striker and have played there my whole life, but also admittedly may be tainted as a United fan, just want to gauge how others see their preferences based on who they are fans of or teams they hate.

Feel different how? A dive is pretty much a dive. It's terrible for the game. Bale dives too much, although to be fair players like Walcott and Bale who fly down the wings go flailing when they get clipped. I think sometimes they get themselves up in the air when they see contact coming just so they don't get annhiliated. He has been known to dive though and I know fans do not like it. He gets hammered on the Tottenham forums when he does it.The FA seems to encourage this behavior though. Derry got a red, Young earned a penalty, and upon review the FA left the red card on Derry and did nothing to Young. They are basically telling these players to dive. I believe there is a serious disconnect between the FA and the fans to be honest.This is aside from the big teams/players getting more calls (which they do). It's part of sports. It happens in the NBA and the NFL I really don't see why it would be so strange to see it happen in the EPL. I don't think it's a conpiracy, I think it's due to pressure. You screw Wigan and you get your name in the paper and you piss off a handful of people, you screw United and you piss off 25% of the country and you get hammered in every big paper in the country for months. Seems pretty natural which side you are going to err on, especially during the end of the season.Just look at recent results. Chelsea were given two goals against Wigan to win 2-1 and a goal to Fulham for a 1-1 draw. United were handed a win against Fulham and given an automatic win against QPR. That's all just in the last two weeks. It's not like these calls were debatable. They were flat out obvious. How else do you explain it?

And thats why I asked, since everyone looks at things from their own perspective. Had it been a Blackburn player going down vs Liverpool would the guile and calls for him to be drawn and quartered be as prevelant?

lol. I don't really want to see his entrails on the ground and his body in pieces. That wasn't really serious. The main reason I was so pissed is I woke up early to watch the match and then it's just completely ruined within 15 minutes. He took a giant dump on my morning. To be honest though I think you're the one who would be reacting differently if it was a different team. I don't have a favorite EPL team so I could really care less whether it was United, Chelsea, Swansea, whatever.

You may be correct, and I fully admit that. Thats why I was asking. I guess I need to go back and look again? And I was just as pissed off at you that the game was ruined 15 mins in, although it was more due to not believing it should have been a red card. Plus any questionable call in favor of United makes the win tainted in the eyes of the haters.

You know this is one of the few civil and generally informative threads around. Could we perhaps refrain from using the term "haters" to describe people that don't see things the same way? That's so... not this thread.

 

[NewlyRetired]

For those calling Young's play a dive, if it had been Everton vs Fulham or Tottenham vs Newcastle do you think you would feel different? Not talking the red, just the "foul/dive"? Is it because United is percieved to get the calls other teams dont?ETA just like I believe it was a foul, mostly because I am a striker and have played there my whole life, but also admittedly may be tainted as a United fan, just want to gauge how others see their preferences based on who they are fans of or teams they hate.

Feel different how? A dive is pretty much a dive. It's terrible for the game. Bale dives too much, although to be fair players like Walcott and Bale who fly down the wings go flailing when they get clipped. I think sometimes they get themselves up in the air when they see contact coming just so they don't get annhiliated. He has been known to dive though and I know fans do not like it. He gets hammered on the Tottenham forums when he does it.The FA seems to encourage this behavior though. Derry got a red, Young earned a penalty, and upon review the FA left the red card on Derry and did nothing to Young. They are basically telling these players to dive. I believe there is a serious disconnect between the FA and the fans to be honest.This is aside from the big teams/players getting more calls (which they do). It's part of sports. It happens in the NBA and the NFL I really don't see why it would be so strange to see it happen in the EPL. I don't think it's a conpiracy, I think it's due to pressure. You screw Wigan and you get your name in the paper and you piss off a handful of people, you screw United and you piss off 25% of the country and you get hammered in every big paper in the country for months. Seems pretty natural which side you are going to err on, especially during the end of the season.Just look at recent results. Chelsea were given two goals against Wigan to win 2-1 and a goal to Fulham for a 1-1 draw. United were handed a win against Fulham and given an automatic win against QPR. That's all just in the last two weeks. It's not like these calls were debatable. They were flat out obvious. How else do you explain it?

And thats why I asked, since everyone looks at things from their own perspective. Had it been a Blackburn player going down vs Liverpool would the guile and calls for him to be drawn and quartered be as prevelant?

lol. I don't really want to see his entrails on the ground and his body in pieces. That wasn't really serious. The main reason I was so pissed is I woke up early to watch the match and then it's just completely ruined within 15 minutes. He took a giant dump on my morning. To be honest though I think you're the one who would be reacting differently if it was a different team. I don't have a favorite EPL team so I could really care less whether it was United, Chelsea, Swansea, whatever.

You may be correct, and I fully admit that. Thats why I was asking. I guess I need to go back and look again? And I was just as pissed off at you that the game was ruined 15 mins in, although it was more due to not believing it should have been a red card. Plus any questionable call in favor of United makes the win tainted in the eyes of the haters.

You know this is one of the few civil and generally informative threads around. Could we perhaps refrain from using the term "haters" to describe people that don't see things the same way? That's so... not this thread.

BMav's schtick is if you don't love Man U, you have to be hater. I think he really knows that 99% of us could care less either way.

 

[Moe.]

I don't think he was referring to anyone in this thread.

 

[Ursa M]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember the game being ruined by professional fouls when made this rule change.

You are. It was brought in largely as a result of the foul by Willie Young of Arsenal in the FA Cup Final. Professional fouls were the bane of the game, with defenders scything the legs away from attackers who were through on goal. You are however absolutely right about diving becoming the major issue now. The FA should review all games like the NFL does and retrospectively suspend anyone who dives.

 

[Sebowski]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember the game being ruined by professional fouls when made this rule change.

You are. It was brought in largely as a result of the foul by Willie Young of Arsenal in the FA Cup Final. Professional fouls were the bane of the game, with defenders scything the legs away from attackers who were through on goal. You are however absolutely right about diving becoming the major issue now. The FA should review all games like the NFL does and retrospectively suspend anyone who dives.

File this under: Something 100% of the fans, athletes, and media agree on, yet will never happen. Stick it right next to a college football playoff system.

 

[guru_007]

Tons of big games......

Bayern @ Dortmund probably the headliner

Montpeliier @ Marseille

just about a full slate of Serie A games, with the biggest being Lazio @ Juve

Twente @ AZ Alkmaar is a huge Dutch game

Real @ Atletico should be a good one in Spain

and the biggest one of course will be United @ Wigan...for me at least

 

[NewlyRetired]

John O'Brien checks in on the 4-3-3

John O'Brien: '4-3-3 requires lots of good, technical skill'by Ridge Mahoney, April 11th, 2012 1:19AM[uSA CONFIDENTIAL] When the U.S. under-23s failed in their Concacaf Olympic qualifying attempt, critics lambasted coach Caleb Porter's use of a 4-3-3 formation and/or the players he chose to play it. Barcelona has refined its use to an art form, yet its demands on players are especially crucial for its success. Ridge Mahoney checked in with former U.S. and Ajax Amsterdam star John O'Brien and MLS coaches for their views on the demands and benefits of the 4-3-3 formation. ...When the U.S under-23 team surrendered a critical goal in stoppage time that knocked it out of contention for a place in the Olympic Games soccer competition, one of the few American players schooled in the 4-3-3 system it was playing was on hand to observe.Former U.S. international midfielder John O’Brien watched the group finale against El Salvador in Nashville. He’d been working with the coaching staff at UNC Asheville and was curious to see some of the U.S. young talent as he gets ready for his next career; he has a degree in psychology and is taking his B coaching license course this week in Southern California.He wasn’t the only one to notice that while the Americans were potent and incisive going forward, they were naive and vulnerable when they lost possession. The origins of the breakdowns aside, the U.S. players weren’t prepared for the unique demands of the system they were playing. It requires players to think defensively even when they have the ball.“That’s the problem with the 4-3-3,” says O’Brien, who played 32 times for the United States and spent more than a decade in Dutch soccer. “You’re pretty exposed and so if you don’t keep the ball, you’re definitely very open for counters. Part of the 4-3-3 is getting used to knowing that when you’re possessing the ball, you’re ready in case the guy turns it over.“That has to be ingrained a little bit more, what to do in transition. You’re on offense but you’re still thinking defensively. Once you lose it, in that formation you need to be able to press the ball right away and be tight to guys, because you’re so open.”O’Brien, a native of Southern California, left home at age 17 to join Ajax, the club that refined and popularized the 4-3-3 system in the early 1970s. Injuries limited him to just 85 matches for the club and he also had brief stays with Utrecht and ADO Den Haag. He played a variety of positions, including left back and left midfield, though he’s best known to American fans for the central, holding role he usually played for the national team.Many MLS teams have at times used 4-3-3 in the league’s history but it’s never been a preferred formation. Currently, Sporting Kansas City has utilized it to emerge as one of the league’s top teams, Toronto FC has used it extensively since Dutch coach Aron Winter took over at the start of the 2011 season, and new head coach Oscar Pareja has introduced it in Colorado. It has been extolled by U.S. head coach Jurgen Klinsmann and was implemented by U.S. U-23 head coach Caleb Porter for the Concacaf Olympic qualifiers.The formation bore much criticism when the U.S. fell short, yet O’Brien feels the players selected to play the system weren’t thoroughly familiar with it.“You know in a 4-3-3 you’ll have a lot of players in front of the ball, and I noticed that they lost the ball easy and didn’t have guys in the right spaces,” said O’Brien of a 3-3 tie in which El Salvador scored its equalizer deep into stoppage time. “When they scored the equalizer, for a team that needs a result at that moment, we were very exposed. There weren’t many people behind the ball.”Kansas City is the league’s top defensive team with just one goal conceded in five matches, so the 4-3-3 does not automatically translate into leaking goals. Coach Peter Vermes implemented the system, which really seemed to take root last season when Brazilian Julio Cesar moved from the back line into a midfield holding role. His play has meshed nicely that with Roger Espinoza, who handles a lot of the two-way work, and attacking catalyst Graham Zusi, who himself covers a lot of ground probing for openings. Together, they shield the back four and provide good supply lines to the three forwards.Though the roles and responsibilities and alignment of the three midfielders change, at least one player must be ready to buttress the middle. SKC assistant coach Kerry Zavagnin, while not a veteran of many matches in the 4-3-3, played the holding role for more than a decade in MLS and occasionally with the national team.“In that position, not only do you have to have the physical capabilities to cover the ground that’s required,” says Zavagnin. “Some formations require you to have a bigger engine and certainly if you’re playing with one holding midfielder you have to have the physical capability to play that position.“The other piece is you have a tactical understanding of what’s not only required of yourself in that position but all the other players around you, particularly in front of you and to the side. In general terms there’s an education process that has to take place. The 4-3-3 is a system we’re relatively unfamiliar with in this country, so it’s still difficult for the player to understand everything about playing in that area of the field in a 4-3-3.”O’Brien cites that element as well; once Ajax found success with the system, it searched for players to play in it. Many Dutch teams copied Ajax to the extent they played it much of the time, and adopted variants such as shifting to a 3-4-3 to better match teams in midfield that were playing 4-4-2. During a game a centerback comfortable on the ball would push into midfield to help keep possession or launch an attack.When he introduced the Rapids to his version of a 4-3-3, Pareja immediately ratcheted up the technical demands on his players. The club signed Colombian Jaime Castrillon and Martin Rivero to get more skill in the lineup, but the sidelining of veteran Pablo Mastroeni because of post-concussion problems has at times altered the formation. The emphasis on possession has not changed.“[Pareja] doesn’t feel like in this system anyone can hide out there,” says Rapids midfielder Jeff Larentowicz. “That’s a really good thing because everybody should be able to play with the ball. It’s whether you believe you can do it and using it at the right time. Oscar is showing now that everyone has to get on it and want to be on it.”Pareja also preaches another element of the 4-3-3 as cited by O’Brien; pressuring the ball once it is lost. In this sense the 4-3-3 is like every other formation in that mastery of it stems from the players’ mindset.“One thing I’m asking them is I need midfielders who are committed with the game all the time, players who are comfortable with the ball and want the ball when we are in possession, but players who are eager to get the ball back when we don’t have it,” says Pareja. “That kind of mentality I want from all of them.”Says O’Brien of the U.S. under-23 experiment: “The 4-3-3 is a possession formation. You’re going to need a lot of good, technical skill to play it, and it’s something were still working on, I think.”

 

[NewlyRetired]

New FIFA World Rankings are out. Uruguay moves to an all time high of 3rd.

http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtable/index.html

 

[NewlyRetired]

The Blackburn Man United was the most watched English language soccer game in the US last weekend with 315k viewers.

To put this in perspective, the MFL game between Chivas Guadalajara vs Club America drew just a hair under 1.9 million viewers in the US and was considered a large disappointment (lowest rated Chivas vs America game since Spanish ratings started to be tracked in 2006).

 

[The Z Machine]

New FIFA World Rankings are out. Uruguay moves to an all time high of 3rd. http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtable/index.html

Too high.FIFA's rankings are based on coefficients, which are lagging indicators.

 

[The Z Machine]

Also, Falcao and Adrián might not play against RM today. That would leave the Atleti offense impotent IMO.

 

[Slapdash]

Also, Falcao and Adrián might not play against RM today. That would leave the Atleti offense impotent IMO.

 

[Mjolnirs]

With Dortmund's 3-1 victory over Wolfsburg and Bayern's 2-1 victory over Augsburg, the showdown for top spot in the Bundesliga is set.

Borussia Dortmund	20-6-3 66 66:22	+44Bayern München		20-3-6 63 69:19	+50

This Wednesday at 2pm live on Gol TV - Bayern München at Borrusia Dortmund. It should be a pretty exiting match.

Bump!

 

[B Maverick]

For those calling Young's play a dive, if it had been Everton vs Fulham or Tottenham vs Newcastle do you think you would feel different? Not talking the red, just the "foul/dive"? Is it because United is percieved to get the calls other teams dont?ETA just like I believe it was a foul, mostly because I am a striker and have played there my whole life, but also admittedly may be tainted as a United fan, just want to gauge how others see their preferences based on who they are fans of or teams they hate.

Feel different how? A dive is pretty much a dive. It's terrible for the game. Bale dives too much, although to be fair players like Walcott and Bale who fly down the wings go flailing when they get clipped. I think sometimes they get themselves up in the air when they see contact coming just so they don't get annhiliated. He has been known to dive though and I know fans do not like it. He gets hammered on the Tottenham forums when he does it.The FA seems to encourage this behavior though. Derry got a red, Young earned a penalty, and upon review the FA left the red card on Derry and did nothing to Young. They are basically telling these players to dive. I believe there is a serious disconnect between the FA and the fans to be honest.This is aside from the big teams/players getting more calls (which they do). It's part of sports. It happens in the NBA and the NFL I really don't see why it would be so strange to see it happen in the EPL. I don't think it's a conpiracy, I think it's due to pressure. You screw Wigan and you get your name in the paper and you piss off a handful of people, you screw United and you piss off 25% of the country and you get hammered in every big paper in the country for months. Seems pretty natural which side you are going to err on, especially during the end of the season.Just look at recent results. Chelsea were given two goals against Wigan to win 2-1 and a goal to Fulham for a 1-1 draw. United were handed a win against Fulham and given an automatic win against QPR. That's all just in the last two weeks. It's not like these calls were debatable. They were flat out obvious. How else do you explain it?

And thats why I asked, since everyone looks at things from their own perspective. Had it been a Blackburn player going down vs Liverpool would the guile and calls for him to be drawn and quartered be as prevelant?

lol. I don't really want to see his entrails on the ground and his body in pieces. That wasn't really serious. The main reason I was so pissed is I woke up early to watch the match and then it's just completely ruined within 15 minutes. He took a giant dump on my morning. To be honest though I think you're the one who would be reacting differently if it was a different team. I don't have a favorite EPL team so I could really care less whether it was United, Chelsea, Swansea, whatever.

You may be correct, and I fully admit that. Thats why I was asking. I guess I need to go back and look again? And I was just as pissed off at you that the game was ruined 15 mins in, although it was more due to not believing it should have been a red card. Plus any questionable call in favor of United makes the win tainted in the eyes of the haters.

You know this is one of the few civil and generally informative threads around. Could we perhaps refrain from using the term "haters" to describe people that don't see things the same way? That's so... not this thread.

BMav's schtick is if you don't love Man U, you have to be hater. I think he really knows that 99% of us could care less either way.

Not true. no schtick and fans can be for who they want (my bro in law is an arsenal supporter)

I don't think he was referring to anyone in this thread.

And not referring to anyone here. The haters comment is more in general. I dont post there but I read the comments on eurosport and espn and just laugh my #### off because that is how a lot of it comes accross, even United fans are just as bad. No thought behind comments and a lot of name calling.Its been quite a good discussion IMO and why I asked the questions. Its why I love this thread and why I will post and pose questions. Most of the posters here love the game above any specific teams. Seems most have even played and even to a decently high level (college, semi-pro, overseas).

 

[guru_007]

Jozy scored today in the big game vs Twente

1-1 almost at halftime there.

Montpellier hammered Marseille, big win for them.

 

[B Maverick]

Tons of big games......

Bayern @ Dortmund probably the headliner

Montpeliier @ Marseille

just about a full slate of Serie A games, with the biggest being Lazio @ Juve

Twente @ AZ Alkmaar is a huge Dutch game

Real @ Atletico should be a good one in Spain

and the biggest one of course will be United @ Wigan...for me at least

Me too! dont forget City v West Brom....

 

[NewlyRetired]

Jozy with his second! AZ up 2-1

Gomez, Dempsey, and Jozy all on form. Hope this holds through the summer.

 

[GoFishTN]

I think offsides is a more pressing use of technology than goals personally, but I'm not sure how it would be implemented.

After some thought, I'm thinking instant replay after every goal. A quick look to see if the scorer was onside and on with the game.Would that affect the tempo of the game badly?

 

[jonessed]

There is no way anyone can watch these Wigan games and not come to the conclusion that the big teams get an advantage in calls. Wigan has been completely and totally hosed the last two matches against Chelsea and United. They are -3 on terrible calls. Not even just bad judgements, but completely inexplicable calls.

 

[B Maverick]

There is no way anyone can watch these Wigan games and not come to the conclusion that the big teams get an advantage in calls. Wigan has been completely and totally hosed the last two matches against Chelsea and United. They are -3 on terrible calls. Not even just bad judgements, but completely inexplicable calls.

What happened? I am not watching but the eurosport commentary indicated a goal called back for someone fouling De Gea and it was a good call.

 

[The Z Machine]

¡Vamos Atleti!

 

[jonessed]

There is no way anyone can watch these Wigan games and not come to the conclusion that the big teams get an advantage in calls. Wigan has been completely and totally hosed the last two matches against Chelsea and United. They are -3 on terrible calls. Not even just bad judgements, but completely inexplicable calls.

What happened? I am not watching but the eurosport commentary indicated a goal called back for someone fouling De Gea and it was a good call.

Nobody backed into De Gea. There was simply a Wigan player standing in front of him. The linesman made the call from 35 yards out looking through three bodies.You can watch it later. It was an awful call. Bad enough for the English announcers to call it into question and the Fox team to start talking conspiracy theories.I hate to see it. Wigan outplayed Chelsea and is outplaying United yet they can't beat the linesman. And a linesman of all things. The referee is right there looking at it and the linesman, who can't possibly even see it, makes the call.