You'll notice I didn't ask for 10. But I do like his game. He and RvP are perfect for each other.I think most people would agree he's not top 10 in the world.I can name 10 strikers Id rather have off the top of my head, and probably 20 if you gave me a few minutes.Good. Not great. And no, this isn't because he missed the penalty
Are we talking strikers who you'd want for 1 must-win game, or strikers who you'd want if you were building a team from scratch? I could see Balotelli making the cut in a one-game situation, but I really don't think I'd take Balotelli over Rooney if I were building a team from scratch.I don't really have any comments on the rest, though I can't honestly say I've seen Jovetic enough to have an opinion.messi, benzema,ronaldo, benzema, aguero, rvp, ibrahimovic, cavani, falcao, jovetic, neymar, balotelli, suarez, did that off the top of my head... i imagine rooney is somewhere in the 15-20 range
I think RVP had the same thought. Looked like he was sizing that ball up and was surprised Evra beat him to the punch.Evra completely unmarked. WTF?
I was wondering about that too. It's not like anyone was going to mistake an Arsenal player for a United player just because they both have dark socks.Couldn't Arsenal find socks that match the rest of their purple and black kit?
Some of those are just absurd. There's no way any sane person would take Ibra (at his current age), Balotelli, or Suarez (really?) over Rooney. I don't like Rooney, but he does so much more than just score goals (and he does score a lot of them). He's a workhorse and that's a rare attribute for a striker. I swear he could line up as a fullback and excel.I don't think Jovetic or either Benzema makes the cut either, but you could certainly make an arugment.Are we talking strikers who you'd want for 1 must-win game, or strikers who you'd want if you were building a team from scratch? I could see Balotelli making the cut in a one-game situation, but I really don't think I'd take Balotelli over Rooney if I were building a team from scratch.I don't really have any comments on the rest, though I can't honestly say I've seen Jovetic enough to have an opinion.messi, benzema,ronaldo, benzema, aguero, rvp, ibrahimovic, cavani, falcao, jovetic, neymar, balotelli, suarez, did that off the top of my head... i imagine rooney is somewhere in the 15-20 range
I would not take Suarez over Rooney either. Ibrahimovic's age goes back to the question of if you're picking for one game or for a career going forward.Some of those are just absurd. There's no way any sane person would take Ibra (at his current age), Balotelli, or Suarez (really?) over Rooney. I don't like Rooney, but he does so much more than just score goals (and he does score a lot of them). He's a workhorse and that's a rare attribute for a striker. I swear he could line up as a fullback and excel.I don't think Jovetic, Neymar or either Benzema makes the cut either, but you could make an arugment I supposeAre we talking strikers who you'd want for 1 must-win game, or strikers who you'd want if you were building a team from scratch? I could see Balotelli making the cut in a one-game situation, but I really don't think I'd take Balotelli over Rooney if I were building a team from scratch.I don't really have any comments on the rest, though I can't honestly say I've seen Jovetic enough to have an opinion.messi, benzema,ronaldo, benzema, aguero, rvp, ibrahimovic, cavani, falcao, jovetic, neymar, balotelli, suarez, did that off the top of my head... i imagine rooney is somewhere in the 15-20 range
There are others that could fill those spots (RVP, Gomez, etc.), but there is no way he falls to 15-20. I think he easily gets top ten and, as I mentioned, I can't stand the guy.I would not take Suarez over Rooney either. Ibrahimovic's age goes back to the question of if you're picking for one game or for a career going forward.Some of those are just absurd. There's no way any sane person would take Ibra (at his current age), Balotelli, or Suarez (really?) over Rooney. I don't like Rooney, but he does so much more than just score goals (and he does score a lot of them). He's a workhorse and that's a rare attribute for a striker. I swear he could line up as a fullback and excel.I don't think Jovetic, Neymar or either Benzema makes the cut either, but you could make an arugment I supposeAre we talking strikers who you'd want for 1 must-win game, or strikers who you'd want if you were building a team from scratch? I could see Balotelli making the cut in a one-game situation, but I really don't think I'd take Balotelli over Rooney if I were building a team from scratch.I don't really have any comments on the rest, though I can't honestly say I've seen Jovetic enough to have an opinion.messi, benzema,ronaldo, benzema, aguero, rvp, ibrahimovic, cavani, falcao, jovetic, neymar, balotelli, suarez, did that off the top of my head... i imagine rooney is somewhere in the 15-20 range
You have one in Cazorla. Perfect technique and weight with either foot. Pure class.I can't recall the last time I saw as pure a passer as Eden Hazard is. Every ball is perfectly weighted, I love it.
I like him a lot and I think he's probably been their best player all season so far, but if I had a choice I'd take Hazard. Cazorla's goal today was pretty though. Perhaps Hazard just looks better because he plays for Chelsea rather than Arsenal.You have one in Cazorla. Perfect technique and weight with either foot. Pure class.I can't recall the last time I saw as pure a passer as Eden Hazard is. Every ball is perfectly weighted, I love it.
I agree, Hazard is the better player with the higher upside. I was simply talking about Cazorla's passing.Neither can carry the jocks of Xavi/Iniesta though.I like him a lot and I think he's probably been their best player all season so far, but if I had a choice I'd take Hazard. Cazorla's goal today was pretty though. Perhaps Hazard just looks better because he plays for Chelsea rather than Arsenal.You have one in Cazorla. Perfect technique and weight with either foot. Pure class.I can't recall the last time I saw as pure a passer as Eden Hazard is. Every ball is perfectly weighted, I love it.
I should have worded my comment differently. Xavi is just, well, Xavi.Neither can carry the jocks of Xavi/Iniesta though.
It's a bit early for Hazard. If anyone in the world has the potential to match (or surpass) one of those two it's Hazard.I agree, Hazard is the better player with the higher upside. I was simply talking about Cazorla's passing.Neither can carry the jocks of Xavi/Iniesta though.I like him a lot and I think he's probably been their best player all season so far, but if I had a choice I'd take Hazard. Cazorla's goal today was pretty though. Perhaps Hazard just looks better because he plays for Chelsea rather than Arsenal.You have one in Cazorla. Perfect technique and weight with either foot. Pure class.I can't recall the last time I saw as pure a passer as Eden Hazard is. Every ball is perfectly weighted, I love it.
They have no creativity without Dembele. Dembele really isn't even a creative midfielder, but he's all they got. He breaks down defenses off the dribble and that creates opportunity.When their Isco and Moutinho bids failed I guess Levy decided they could do without a Modric replacement. He was wrong.Alright Spurs fans, WTF happened out there today?
I'm speaking at this moment in time in terms of pure on field ability.Ibrahimovic in the BEST pure striker in the world. Yes, better than Messi and Ronaldo... Both of which are better players, but when it comes to pure finishing, Ibra is top class, 100%, #1.In terms of Balotelli, while the attitude stinks... He is a disgustingly good striker. Has won it ALL with his club, and unlike Rooney, has performed on the BIG stage with Italy... Just think back to the Euro's. Balotelli is a big game player.In the end, it's all subjective... But when I see Rooney, my jaw doesn't drop nearly as much as it should for a player of his hype. The guy can score some ridiculous goals, and can show a good workrate... But pin him up against organized defense, and he becomes invisible far too often.Some of those are just absurd. There's no way any sane person would take Ibra (at his current age), Balotelli, or Suarez (really?) over Rooney. I don't like Rooney, but he does so much more than just score goals (and he does score a lot of them). He's a workhorse and that's a rare attribute for a striker. I swear he could line up as a fullback and excel.I don't think Jovetic or either Benzema makes the cut either, but you could certainly make an arugment.Are we talking strikers who you'd want for 1 must-win game, or strikers who you'd want if you were building a team from scratch? I could see Balotelli making the cut in a one-game situation, but I really don't think I'd take Balotelli over Rooney if I were building a team from scratch.I don't really have any comments on the rest, though I can't honestly say I've seen Jovetic enough to have an opinion.messi, benzema,ronaldo, benzema, aguero, rvp, ibrahimovic, cavani, falcao, jovetic, neymar, balotelli, suarez, did that off the top of my head... i imagine rooney is somewhere in the 15-20 range
Well of course, Balotelli plays for a much better national team than Rooney does.In terms of Balotelli, while the attitude stinks... He is a disgustingly good striker. Has won it ALL with his club, and unlike Rooney, has performed on the BIG stage with Italy... Just think back to the Euro's. Balotelli is a big game player.

This is the official who's a fan of what team(s) post. As many teams/leagues as you want to put in here.
International
United States - everyone except for GoFishTN who is a jerk
Argentina - Sebowski, otello
Bolivia - Sebowski
Brazil - Desert Power, Z's wife, Derek, Abrantes, SmoovySmoov
Canada - Polsonov?
Croatia - kblitz
Denmark - Major
Egypt - Jmon
England - LHUCKS, SmoovySmoov, AAABatteries, Txns8, SmoovySmoov, theprince
Germany - Mjolnirs, eagles2007, editor47, Bonzai, Short Corner
Ireland - PIK95
Italy - Steve Tasker, Texas Football, otello, Boubucarow
Japan - SmoovySmoov
Netherlands - MrPhoenix, AAABatteries, Major
Nigeria - Eephus
Portugal - Gator
Serbia - Vipers
Spain - Sebowski, Kansas Comet, Z Machine, The Reytheist, Good Posting Judge
Venezuela - Z's wife
Wales - Jonessed
England
EPL
Arsenal - Steve Tasker, Sebowski, Z's wife, Brewer, Vipers, Major, Sparty, Jmon, Scoobygang, The Reytheist
Chelsea - Native (pre-Abramovich), Cletius Maximus, Eephus Jr.
Everton - Senor Schmutzig, eagles2007
Liverpool - MrPhoenix, Bentley, Kendall, SmoovySmoov, editor47, Gator, PIK95, Texas Football, Sleeping King, jplvr, theprince, wdcrob
Manchester City - editor47, Derek, TitusIII, NYCelt, whoknew
Manchester United - B Maverick, AAABatteries, JuniorNB, Bonzai, AcerFC, Txns8, Ted Lange as your Bartender
Newcastle - Polsonov, Scoobygang
Queen's Park Rangers - Christo, Bentley
Southampton - GoFishTN
Stoke - Good Posting Judge
Swansea - Good Posting Judge
Tottenham - GoFishTN, Jonessed, jplvr
WBA - Steve Tasker
"Big 4 + any team with an American" - El Floppo
Championship
Blackpool - Jonessed, Otello
Bolton - berndog
Hull - QuizGuy66
Ipswich Town - Texas Football, Sparty
Wolves - Boubucarow, theprince
Football League Two
AFC Wimbledon - Eephus
Northern Premier League, Premier Division
FC United of Manchester - otello
Spain
Atletico Madrid - Z Machine
Barcelona - Desert Power, Sebowski, Kansas Comet, Jmon, SmoovySmoov, The Reytheist, otello, Good Posting Judge
Real Madrid - Z's wife, Derek
Sevilla - Kansas Comet
Italy
Ascoli - otello
Inter - El Floppo, Texas Football
Juventus - Boubucarow
Udinese - eagles2007
Germany
Bundesliga
1. FC Nurnberg - Bonzai
Bayern Munchen - Mjolnirs, Short Corner, Christo, Sparty
Borussia Dortmund - eagles2007, editor47
VfB Stuttgart - kblitz
VfL Wolfsburg - SmoovySmoov
2. Bundesliga
Eintracht Frankfurt - Eephus
FC St. Pauli - Christo
Scotland
Celtic - walnutz, PIK95, NYCelt
Hearts - Steve Tasker
Rangers - Senor Schmutzig, El Floppo (but only because they have Americans)
USA
MLS
Chicago Fire - Senor Schmutzig, Vipers, Christo, Boubucarow
Columbus Crew - Bonzai, Derek
DC United - walnutz, Jmon, wdcrob
FC Dallas - Txns8
Houston Dynamo - Txns8, whoknew
LA Galaxy - Kansas Comet, Z Machine, The Reytheist
New England Revolution - andy b, PIK95
New York Red Bulls - JuniorNB, El Floppo, AcerFC
Philadelphia Union - Z's wife, eagles2007, editor47, Ted Lange as your Bartender, otello
Portland Timbers - bentley
San Jose Earthquakes - Good Posting Judge
Seattle Sounders - Vipers, SmoovySmoov
Toronto FC - Steve Tasker
NASL
Carolina Railhawks - walnutz
USL Professional Division
Charleston Battery - Mjolnirs, walnutz, Desert Power
WPS
FC Sky Blue - JuniorNB
magicJack - The Reytheist
St. Louis Athletica - walnutz
Argentina
Boca Juniors - Steve Tasker, walnutz, El Floppo
Los Piratas - otello
Newell's Old Boys - Z Machine
River Plate - Z's wife
Mexico
Chivas Guadalajara - Z Machine
UNAM Pumas - Z's wife
Croatia
Hajduk Split - kblitz
Brazil
Flamengo - Abrantes, Sebowski
France
Paris St. Germain - Eephus
Egypt
Al-Ahly - Jmon
Turkey
Besiktas - Good Posting Judge
Serbia
Red Star Belgrade - Sparty
It was funny the first time, but can you drop this now? Thanks.November bump for any new updates
This is the official who's a fan of what team(s) post. As many teams/leagues as you want to put in here.
International
United States - everyone except for GoFishTN who is a jerk
I know, I no longer remember why that's in there.ETA - doneIt was funny the first time, but can you drop this now? Thanks.November bump for any new updates
This is the official who's a fan of what team(s) post. As many teams/leagues as you want to put in here.
International
United States - everyone except for GoFishTN who is a jerk
I know, I no longer remember why that's in there.ETA - doneIt was funny the first time, but can you drop this now? Thanks.November bump for any new updates
This is the official who's a fan of what team(s) post. As many teams/leagues as you want to put in here.
International
United States - everyone except for GoFishTN who is a jerk
Ibra is not the best striker in the world. You're nuts. Ibra is the only one who thinks Ibra is the best in the world.Who the best player in the world is highly debatable. In my eyes, Ronaldo and Messi are clear 1-2...and then there is a group of 10-15 players behind them. Rooney is in that group, without a doubt. Balotelli is not very good either. He is a great talent and a huge head case. He becomes disinterested, doesn't defend, whines, pouts.....he's awful. Has won it all with his club....Rooney has a trohpy case full of silverware. What exactly has Italy won with Balotelli? ftr, I like Ibra a lot. Balotelli...well, I'd never want him on any club I backIbrahimovic in the BEST pure striker in the world. Yes, better than Messi and Ronaldo... Both of which are better players, but when it comes to pure finishing, Ibra is top class, 100%, #1.In terms of Balotelli, while the attitude stinks... He is a disgustingly good striker. Has won it ALL with his club, and unlike Rooney, has performed on the BIG stage with Italy... Just think back to the Euro's. Balotelli is a big game player.In the end, it's all subjective... But when I see Rooney, my jaw doesn't drop nearly as much as it should for a player of his hype. The guy can score some ridiculous goals, and can show a good workrate... But pin him up against organized defense, and he becomes invisible far too often.
They got promoted.2. Bundesliga
Eintracht Frankfurt - Eephus
Balotelli has played with the men's National team ONCE, as he just turned 22 - Helped carry them to the finals. Cooley slotted a penalty past Hart and Single handedly destroyed Germany to get them to the finals. Got any Rooney stories of him doing that with the coveted English team?Just saying... Balotelli does a lot more than ppl give him credit for. he DOES defend. Then again, ya, he does become disinterested at times and does do some pretty ####ty things... But Id take him on ANY team, and dream of the day he comes to play for his dream club at Milan.What exactly has Italy won with Balotelli? ftr, I like Ibra a lot. Balotelli...well, I'd never want him on any club I back
Chris Cooley plays for Italy?Balotelli has played with the men's National team ONCE, as he just turned 22 - Helped carry them to the finals. Cooley slotted a penalty past Hart and Single handedly destroyed Germany to get them to the finals. Got any Rooney stories of him doing that with the coveted English team?Just saying... Balotelli does a lot more than ppl give him credit for. he DOES defend. Then again, ya, he does become disinterested at times and does do some pretty ####ty things... But Id take him on ANY team, and dream of the day he comes to play for his dream club at Milan.What exactly has Italy won with Balotelli? ftr, I like Ibra a lot. Balotelli...well, I'd never want him on any club I back
If they played Edu more they would.You can remove me for Stoke. I can't stay interested in any team that doesn't make 40 short passes per possession.
once they get the new stadium I'll be more interested...and Wondo bugs me, not sure why.I'm a terrible Earthquakes fan, btw.
Please don't make people who live in the Bay Area look like #######s in that other thread. TIA.once they get the new stadium I'll be more interested...and Wondo bugs me, not sure why.I'm a terrible Earthquakes fan, btw.
I've been a Man United fan since 1965, so put me down with the Red Devils.November bump for any new updates
This is the official who's a fan of what team(s) post. As many teams/leagues as you want to put in here.
International
United States - everyone except for GoFishTN who is a jerk
Argentina - Sebowski, otello
Bolivia - Sebowski
Brazil - Desert Power, Z's wife, Derek, Abrantes, SmoovySmoov
Canada - Polsonov?
Croatia - kblitz
Denmark - Major
Egypt - Jmon
England - LHUCKS, SmoovySmoov, AAABatteries, Txns8, SmoovySmoov, theprince
Germany - Mjolnirs, eagles2007, editor47, Bonzai, Short Corner
Ireland - PIK95
Italy - Steve Tasker, Texas Football, otello, Boubucarow
Japan - SmoovySmoov
Netherlands - MrPhoenix, AAABatteries, Major
Nigeria - Eephus
Portugal - Gator
Serbia - Vipers
Spain - Sebowski, Kansas Comet, Z Machine, The Reytheist, Good Posting Judge
Venezuela - Z's wife
Wales - Jonessed
England
EPL
Arsenal - Steve Tasker, Sebowski, Z's wife, Brewer, Vipers, Major, Sparty, Jmon, Scoobygang, The Reytheist
Chelsea - Native (pre-Abramovich), Cletius Maximus, Eephus Jr.
Everton - Senor Schmutzig, eagles2007
Liverpool - MrPhoenix, Bentley, Kendall, SmoovySmoov, editor47, Gator, PIK95, Texas Football, Sleeping King, jplvr, theprince, wdcrob
Manchester City - editor47, Derek, TitusIII, NYCelt, whoknew
Manchester United - B Maverick, AAABatteries, JuniorNB, Bonzai, AcerFC, Txns8, Ted Lange as your Bartender
Newcastle - Polsonov, Scoobygang
Queen's Park Rangers - Christo, Bentley
Southampton - GoFishTN
Stoke - Good Posting Judge
Swansea - Good Posting Judge
Tottenham - GoFishTN, Jonessed, jplvr
WBA - Steve Tasker
"Big 4 + any team with an American" - El Floppo
Championship
Blackpool - Jonessed, Otello
Bolton - berndog
Hull - QuizGuy66
Ipswich Town - Texas Football, Sparty
Wolves - Boubucarow, theprince
Football League Two
AFC Wimbledon - Eephus
Northern Premier League, Premier Division
FC United of Manchester - otello
Spain
Atletico Madrid - Z Machine
Barcelona - Desert Power, Sebowski, Kansas Comet, Jmon, SmoovySmoov, The Reytheist, otello, Good Posting Judge
Real Madrid - Z's wife, Derek
Sevilla - Kansas Comet
Italy
Ascoli - otello
Inter - El Floppo, Texas Football
Juventus - Boubucarow
Udinese - eagles2007
Germany
Bundesliga
1. FC Nurnberg - Bonzai
Bayern Munchen - Mjolnirs, Short Corner, Christo, Sparty
Borussia Dortmund - eagles2007, editor47
VfB Stuttgart - kblitz
VfL Wolfsburg - SmoovySmoov
2. Bundesliga
Eintracht Frankfurt - Eephus
FC St. Pauli - Christo
Scotland
Celtic - walnutz, PIK95, NYCelt
Hearts - Steve Tasker
Rangers - Senor Schmutzig, El Floppo (but only because they have Americans)
USA
MLS
Chicago Fire - Senor Schmutzig, Vipers, Christo, Boubucarow
Columbus Crew - Bonzai, Derek
DC United - walnutz, Jmon, wdcrob
FC Dallas - Txns8
Houston Dynamo - Txns8, whoknew
LA Galaxy - Kansas Comet, Z Machine, The Reytheist
New England Revolution - andy b, PIK95
New York Red Bulls - JuniorNB, El Floppo, AcerFC
Philadelphia Union - Z's wife, eagles2007, editor47, Ted Lange as your Bartender, otello
Portland Timbers - bentley
San Jose Earthquakes - Good Posting Judge
Seattle Sounders - Vipers, SmoovySmoov
Toronto FC - Steve Tasker
NASL
Carolina Railhawks - walnutz
USL Professional Division
Charleston Battery - Mjolnirs, walnutz, Desert Power
WPS
FC Sky Blue - JuniorNB
magicJack - The Reytheist
St. Louis Athletica - walnutz
Argentina
Boca Juniors - Steve Tasker, walnutz, El Floppo
Los Piratas - otello
Newell's Old Boys - Z Machine
River Plate - Z's wife
Mexico
Chivas Guadalajara - Z Machine
UNAM Pumas - Z's wife
Croatia
Hajduk Split - kblitz
Brazil
Flamengo - Abrantes, Sebowski
France
Paris St. Germain - Eephus
Egypt
Al-Ahly - Jmon
Turkey
Besiktas - Good Posting Judge
Serbia
Red Star Belgrade - Sparty
Right. Ibra is a better striker than Messi and Ronaldo and Balotelli deserves immense credit for winning it ALL as Milito's perma-sub.I'm speaking at this moment in time in terms of pure on field ability.Ibrahimovic in the BEST pure striker in the world. Yes, better than Messi and Ronaldo... Both of which are better players, but when it comes to pure finishing, Ibra is top class, 100%, #1.In terms of Balotelli, while the attitude stinks... He is a disgustingly good striker. Has won it ALL with his club, and unlike Rooney, has performed on the BIG stage with Italy... Just think back to the Euro's. Balotelli is a big game player.In the end, it's all subjective... But when I see Rooney, my jaw doesn't drop nearly as much as it should for a player of his hype. The guy can score some ridiculous goals, and can show a good workrate... But pin him up against organized defense, and he becomes invisible far too often.Some of those are just absurd. There's no way any sane person would take Ibra (at his current age), Balotelli, or Suarez (really?) over Rooney. I don't like Rooney, but he does so much more than just score goals (and he does score a lot of them). He's a workhorse and that's a rare attribute for a striker. I swear he could line up as a fullback and excel.I don't think Jovetic or either Benzema makes the cut either, but you could certainly make an arugment.Are we talking strikers who you'd want for 1 must-win game, or strikers who you'd want if you were building a team from scratch? I could see Balotelli making the cut in a one-game situation, but I really don't think I'd take Balotelli over Rooney if I were building a team from scratch.I don't really have any comments on the rest, though I can't honestly say I've seen Jovetic enough to have an opinion.messi, benzema,ronaldo, benzema, aguero, rvp, ibrahimovic, cavani, falcao, jovetic, neymar, balotelli, suarez, did that off the top of my head... i imagine rooney is somewhere in the 15-20 range
You don't say.You can add me to Italy and add in an AC Milan for me as well.
It made me embarrassed to support MLS, and particularly the BullStars. Horrible. Worse than 4 days without power, phones, heat or hot water. (oh- btw- the family's fine here in the East Village, NYC- asides from the just mentioned things which came back Friday afternoon, we were pretty much unscathed. still concerned about all the folks without though).Well that's a game between NY and DC that the league should burn the tape of. Good godA missed pk, two own goals, and a near moronic red card by Najar for chucking the ball at the ref.
It made me embarrassed to support MLS, and particularly the BullStars. Horrible. Worse than 4 days without power, phones, heat or hot water. (oh- btw- the family's fine here in the East Village, NYC- asides from the just mentioned things which came back Friday afternoon, we were pretty much unscathed. still concerned about all the folks without though).Well that's a game between NY and DC that the league should burn the tape of. Good godA missed pk, two own goals, and a near moronic red card by Najar for chucking the ball at the ref.
No doubt Balotelli is talented but to call him a head case is a disservice to head cases. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that if you asked the FB director/ manager of the top 20 teams in the world who they'd rather have, Rooney or Balotelli, that it would be a landslide for Rooney.Balotelli has played with the men's National team ONCE, as he just turned 22 - Helped carry them to the finals. Cooley slotted a penalty past Hart and Single handedly destroyed Germany to get them to the finals. Got any Rooney stories of him doing that with the coveted English team?Just saying... Balotelli does a lot more than ppl give him credit for. he DOES defend. Then again, ya, he does become disinterested at times and does do some pretty ####ty things... But Id take him on ANY team, and dream of the day he comes to play for his dream club at Milan.What exactly has Italy won with Balotelli? ftr, I like Ibra a lot. Balotelli...well, I'd never want him on any club I back