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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (11 Viewers)

So, not to jinx things, but let's say a certain USL club that is currently crushing attendance records makes it all but impossible for MLS to not offer them a spot.

Logistically speaking, how/when do things like academies and subsidiary or youth teams in lower leagues happen? They pretty much have to have those things to compete long term, right? And I gotta think they don't have much in the way of those things now. 

Do they get a huge pot of cash to invest in those things? Is that part of the ownership bid from the get-go?

how does that stuff work in relegation leagues? Do they just shrink everything when they go down and leave the bare bones in place? Sell off all their players and save for a rainy day?

 
Sinn Fein said:
Who knows - they have pocketed nearly £80M this summer - thats enough to give everyone a £75,000/week raise..

Levy is a fiscal conservative.  Always will be.  His head is exploding with all of the crazy valuations and wages.  The problem is - those levels are here to stay.  Levy sees them as aberrations, and he is trying to wait out the storm.  Eventually he will figure it out - but it could be costly.
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Stadium debt is going to be an issue like it was for Arsenal.

They won't be able to keep everyone.  Hope they pick the right ones and re-invest their loot wisely.

 
Rustoleum said:
how does that stuff work in relegation leagues? Do they just shrink everything when they go down and leave the bare bones in place? Sell off all their players and save for a rainy day?
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The big European leagues give parachute payments to teams relegated from the top tier.  In theory, it's supposed to help out clubs with inflated wage bills (e.g. QPR).  In practice, some owners simply pocket the money, especially at yo-yo clubs whose stay in the first division wasn't long enough to overspend too much.

 
Rustoleum said:
So, not to jinx things, but let's say a certain USL club that is currently crushing attendance records makes it all but impossible for MLS to not offer them a spot.

Logistically speaking, how/when do things like academies and subsidiary or youth teams in lower leagues happen? They pretty much have to have those things to compete long term, right? And I gotta think they don't have much in the way of those things now. 

Do they get a huge pot of cash to invest in those things? Is that part of the ownership bid from the get-go?

how does that stuff work in relegation leagues? Do they just shrink everything when they go down and leave the bare bones in place? Sell off all their players and save for a rainy day?
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I know ATL only announced its first academy players only a few months before the start of this season. Other than that not sure.

You guys sure are packing in the fans!

 
Rustoleum said:
So, not to jinx things, but let's say a certain USL club that is currently crushing attendance records makes it all but impossible for MLS to not offer them a spot.

Logistically speaking, how/when do things like academies and subsidiary or youth teams in lower leagues happen? They pretty much have to have those things to compete long term, right? And I gotta think they don't have much in the way of those things now. 

Do they get a huge pot of cash to invest in those things? Is that part of the ownership bid from the get-go?
Click to expand...
* The individual teams are responsible for funding all academies and lower level teams.  Since the local teams do not pay the salary cap part of the salary, this is one of the expenses they are expected to take on. 

* While it seems daunting to start from scratch, it is not as bad as it first looks.  You don't recruit in the beginning.  Cincy will simply absorb the biggest and best club teams (using some cash) at every level they want a team.   After they establish and populate the various levels and teams, then they can start the recruitment process.

* The expansion bids are largely revolved around finances.  MLS wants to be sure the local ownership group has more than enough money to run things locally, which includes stadiums and youth development, so to answer your question, I am sure this is part of the detailed bids.

 
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SKC won!

1-1 after full and extra time. 5-4 on pens. So I got lots of free bonus soccer. 

SKC gave up a goal in the 4th minute on a counter attack, but dominated the game. SKC had over 30 shots on goal but struggled with the final shot. 

Wondo came on late for San Jose and his PK was saved. Broke my heart. 

 
Poke_4_Life said:
SKC won!

1-1 after full and extra time. 5-4 on pens. So I got lots of free bonus soccer. 

SKC gave up a goal in the 4th minute on a counter attack, but dominated the game. SKC had over 30 shots on goal but struggled with the final shot. 

Wondo came on late for San Jose and his PK was saved. Broke my heart. 
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cool!  Sounds like a fun night.

I keep forgetting.  Does the 2017 US Open Cup winner qualify for 2019 CCL?  The change in the CCL calendar has me so confused who gets what qualifying spot until things catch up in 2019.

 
The big issue I see SF is not the lack of big signings, it's holding it all together.  Pros will only accept low wages for a short period of time then they want their money, especially if they aren't winning titles.

With Tott, they seem to be victims of their own success in a major way.  By my count, they had 8 players on the squad at end of season that were upper echelon epl players.  That's insane. Such a ridiculous lineup.

Now all those guys on low wages want their money. (Or will at some point in the next year).  How do you give Kane big money but pay Eriksen half of his value.  Pay one CB and don't pay the other?

Anyway tough spot to be in and I have no clue how the stadium factors in, how long it will take to pay off or when they can afford to give wages like the other top teams.  But I do understand the psychology of pro athletes and I could tell that the Walker thing was the first crack. Rose may start the avalanche.

 
yikes.  This is from Dortmund's official twitter account.  Translated.  Basically no knows where Dembele is.  Speculation is that he is refusing to train to get transferred.

#PuliBoost.

==========

@Bosz: "#dembouz was today not in training. We have tried to reach him and hope that nothing bad has happened

 
NewlyRetired said:
yikes.  This is from Dortmund's official twitter account.  Translated.  Basically no knows where Dembele is.  Speculation is that he is refusing to train to get transferred.

#PuliBoost.

==========

@Bosz: "#dembouz was today not in training. We have tried to reach him and hope that nothing bad has happened
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I don't know that this is a puliboost. he's already getting minutes... IMO, having better guys around him that he has a rapport on the field with makes CP better.

eta: but I hate this kind of ghosting behavior from players. really didn't like how deuce handled it to get out of fulham. 

eta2: but genuinely would prefer ghosting to some other terrible possibility

 
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El Floppo said:
I don't know that this is a puliboost. he's already getting minutes... IMO, having better guys around him that he has a rapport on the field with makes CP better.
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I think it is a boost.  He was clearly behind Dembele in the pecking order and if he moves at this late date with no like for like replacement, I think Puli moves up the food chain for the new coach.

While Dembele is a great player, he and Puli rarely combine on field as they play on opposite sides.  But I do very much agree the more talent around Puli the better.  Dortmund does not lack for this even if Dembele moves luckily.

 
Yeah, seems ghoulish to speculate on this, particularly since Dembele is one of my very favorite players in the world.  But I'm going to do it anyway.

I think it would be a boost for Pulisic.  He'd go from "first team player" to "key player" on Dortmund. 

 
NewlyRetired said:
I think it is a boost.  He was clearly behind Dembele in the pecking order and if he moves at this late date with no like for like replacement, I think Puli moves up the food chain for the new coach.

While Dembele is a great player, he and Puli rarely combine on field as they play on opposite sides.  But I do very much agree the more talent around Puli the better.  Dortmund does not lack for this even if Dembele moves luckily.
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I thought dembele was more central?

just watched a couple youtube videos of every-puli-touch games... seemed like they were in contact, especially around the box.

eta:

but yes- your and scoob's points about him moving up the chain are completely valid. I guess I thought he was already up the chain heading into the season, and could continue to develop with the best players around him. my fear is that speeding him into "key" player role might be too much to ask... but then again, every time something's been asked of him on the field- with the US in particular- he's stepped up to the challenge... so my fear might be unwarranted. 

 
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Poke_4_Life said:
SKC won!

1-1 after full and extra time. 5-4 on pens. So I got lots of free bonus soccer. 

SKC gave up a goal in the 4th minute on a counter attack, but dominated the game. SKC had over 30 shots on goal but struggled with the final shot. 

Wondo came on late for San Jose and his PK was saved. Broke my heart. 
Click to expand...
Yeah, that was another frustrating SKC game to watch. So many chances created. 

They were fortunate to pull that win out. 

 
El Floppo said:
I thought dembele was more central?

just watched a couple youtube videos of every-puli-touch games... seemed like they were in contact, especially around the box.

eta:

but yes- your and scoob's points about him moving up the chain are completely valid. I guess I thought he was already up the chain heading into the season, and could continue to develop with the best players around him. my fear is that speeding him into "key" player role might be too much to ask... but then again, every time something's been asked of him on the field- with the US in particular- he's stepped up to the challenge... so my fear might be unwarranted. 
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Dembele was typically played on the flank.  But he likes to go central.  I always felt that he was meant to become the striker when Auba inevitably moved on.  When Dortmund went to 3 in the back in the last half of the season, Pulisic and Dembele played more centrally as RAM and LAM behind Auba.  It was pretty sexy stuff. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Dembele was typically played on the flank.  But he likes to go central.  I always felt that he was meant to become the striker when Auba inevitably moved on.  When Dortmund went to 3 in the back in the last half of the season, Pulisic and Dembele played more centrally as RAM and LAM behind Auba.  It was pretty sexy stuff. 
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the videos I was watching, my favorite parts (aside from that unearthly offensive aggression by CP, where he just chews up positive space in the blink of an eye under complete control) are when he's playing triangles around the box and continuously making the little darting runs to find the seam, get the pass, play the smart pass or dribble and then rinse-repeat. the tiki-taka, just like cissokho's flavor.

 
Just to calm everyone's concerns for Ousmane, he's apparently been found, and suspended by the club.

http://www.bvb.de/News/Uebersicht/Dembeles-Fehlverhalten-sanktioniert

I don't pretend to understand this dance players, their agents and the (buying and selling) clubs do, but I think it mostly revolves around obligations to pay remaining portions of the sign-on or loyalty bonus. If the player formally requests a transfer (VVD), he forfeits that money.  If he informally asks for a transfer and the club obliges (Matic), its all lollipops and ice cream and Bob's your uncle.  If he misses training, negotiates through the media, unfollows his club on Twitter, but stops short of formalizing his breach of contract (Costa, Neymar, Dembele), I guess both parties feel they have to scramble to position themselves for a court battle, even understanding in almost all cases the matter is resolved as part of the transfer once it is finalized.

 
Poke_4_Life said:
SKC won!

1-1 after full and extra time. 5-4 on pens. So I got lots of free bonus soccer. 

SKC gave up a goal in the 4th minute on a counter attack, but dominated the game. SKC had over 30 shots on goal but struggled with the final shot. 

Wondo came on late for San Jose and his PK was saved. Broke my heart. 
Click to expand...
:thumbdown:  Nothing against SKC but I was so pulling for SJ so that FCC would have a shot at hosting the Championship.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Just to calm everyone's concerns for Ousmane, he's apparently been found, and suspended by the club.

http://www.bvb.de/News/Uebersicht/Dembeles-Fehlverhalten-sanktioniert

I don't pretend to understand this dance players, their agents and the (buying and selling) clubs do, but I think it mostly revolves around obligations to pay remaining portions of the sign-on or loyalty bonus. If the player formally requests a transfer (VVD), he forfeits that money.  If he informally asks for a transfer and the club obliges (Matic), its all lollipops and ice cream and Bob's your uncle.  If he misses training, negotiates through the media, unfollows his club on Twitter, but stops short of formalizing his breach of contract (Costa, Neymar, Dembele), I guess both parties feel they have to scramble to position themselves for a court battle, even understanding in almost all cases the matter is resolved as part of the transfer once it is finalized.
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Wouldn't shock me if selling club and player were in cahoots when that happens.  "Listen, we can sell you.  But it can't look like we did it willingly.  Are you willing to play the bad guy to give us some cover and we'll accept the next offer?"

You get the big transfer fee and a less pissed off fan base.  Player is going to be hated by Dortmund fans whether he goes this way or amicably.  Win/win.

 
Buzzbait said:
:thumbdown:  Nothing against SKC but I was so pulling for SJ so that FCC would have a shot at hosting the Championship.
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I get it...  honestly I'm very torn on who to root for next week.  

SKC would in theory have an easier path to the cup against FCC in the final but they would also be the national villian when they win the final.  

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Wouldn't shock me if selling club and player were in cahoots when that happens.  "Listen, we can sell you.  But it can't look like we did it willingly.  Are you willing to play the bad guy to give us some cover and we'll accept the next offer?"

You get the big transfer fee and a less pissed off fan base.  Player is going to be hated by Dortmund fans whether he goes this way or amicably.  Win/win.
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I agree because I think Dortmund are happy to be a selling club.  The are likely super excited about the fact that they are about to have the ultimate ROI investment pay off in record time, but they are just milking the process.  That being said, they also know they have a potential global superstar on their hands and they aren't going to just give him away and always rue the day they did so..

But all part of the game, they will be happy to pocket 100M or more in profits.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Wouldn't shock me if selling club and player were in cahoots when that happens.  "Listen, we can sell you.  But it can't look like we did it willingly.  Are you willing to play the bad guy to give us some cover and we'll accept the next offer?"

You get the big transfer fee and a less pissed off fan base.  Player is going to be hated by Dortmund fans whether he goes this way or amicably.  Win/win.
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I think this is very likely the case in many of these.  With Dortmund / Dembele I'm not so sure.  The announcement today specified sanctions against the player. That strikes me as Dortmund setting things up to argue against a loyalty payment, assuming one is otherwise due.

 
538 predictions:

EPL

1. Manchester City
2. Chelsea
3. Manchester United
4. Spurs

La Liga

1. Real Madrid
2. Barcelona
3. Atletico
4. Athletic Bilbao

Bundesliga

1. Bayern
2. Dortmund
3. Leipzig
4. Hoffenheim

Ligue 1

1. PSG
2. Monaco
3. Lyon
4. Marseille

Serie A

1. Juventus
2. Napoli
3. Roma
4. Inter

 
here's mine.

epl:

1. citeh

2. spurns

3. fronited

4. poo

5. helski

6. arses-geeses-bean feast

7. toffee

8. scents

9. ham

10. crystal meth

11. newcastle brown

12. swanny

13. stokey

14. burnmouth

15. manwichbromwich

16. huddle town

17. yessir

18. wat?

19. burn!

20 brighton & hove & my uncle albie.

 
2017-2018 EPL predictions

So much is going to change between now and Aug 31 that it's almost stupid to do one, but what the heck.  That's the custom in sports.  Make your preseason predictions.  So I'll make these predictions based on current rosters only, knowing many things can change and then I'll do a revision on Sept 1.

1. Man City - I know it was preseason, but I was unbelievably impressed with City in Nashville.  They ripped open Tottenham.  I have a feeling they will play at a different level this year and run away with the league.  Walker and Mendy are being under-valued as to what they will bring to City.  As much as I laughed at Ederson in his first preseason game, he then seemed to improve over subsequent weeks and looked really strong.  That being said, he wouldn't be the first young GK (and he looks short?) from a lesser league to come into the league of crosses and big English giants and struggle.  I'm still not sold on them defensively but I think it's good enough as there isn't really another complete team behind them.

2. Arsenal - Arsene takes a lot of grief but somehow he's kept the team together despite the exodus that still seems as if it will eventually happen.  Adding Lacazette to the team can only help.  I thought Arsenal really looked good at the end of last year and they seem to have carried that momentum over.  I expect them to completely treat the Europa league as a "League Cup" type of affair and send their scrubs, which should leave them relatively focused on the league all season.  Yes, there is a scenario where Sanchez and Ox both leave in the next 2 weeks and I move them from 2nd to 6th.  But I see them having a "swan song" type of season for Wenger and him leaving having done his duty of getting them back to the CL.

3. Tottenham - The way Tottenham took teams apart towards the end of last season was scary.  They could easily win the league if they stay healthy, but there are a couple problems.  First of all, they lost Walker, who I feel they will strongly miss.  Second, they are playing at Wembley all year.  Third, they are a thin team, if you ask me.  Unless something changes with ownership, this is a team beginning a slow descent back to where they came from as players slowly begin leaving, are replaced with young guys that are 80% as good, and the great team that Levy built sees their window end.

4. Manchester United - I wavered on this one but my rule was to judge teams based on where they are right now, so I have to give the edge to United.  Defensively sound.  Lukaku should score enough.  Honestly, I don't feel that this team really improved all that much this season, aside from Matic.  Zlatan to Lukaku is a lateral move in my opinion.  Matic was a great signing though and while I doubt he really "unlocks" Pogba, I think he will make them incredibly annoying to play against.  They could be absolutely dreadful to watch.  But I do see them eeking out a top 4 spot.  Anyone thinking they are anywhere close to City has lost their minds though.  That rivalry is all headed in one direction.

5. Liverpool - Going to be elite on offense with the potential to be pretty close to City in that dept.  Mohamed Salah was a superstar in Italy over the last two seasons and he looked right at home in preseason.  I think he's the steal of the transfer window in the EPL and adds far more to Liverpool's offense than Lukaku or Morata (who are just replacing Costa/Zlatan one for one).  But the Lallana injury, coupled with the shocking lack of CB's purchased (at this point), plus all the extra games in the CL/EL...I just don't like the depth defensively and I feel that as great as the offense might be, the old frailties might rear their ugly head.

6. Chelsea - I can't imagine having a worse off-season to follow up an EPL trophy.  First of all, there are all sorts of suggestions that Conte is unhappy, which affects squad harmony, right?  Hazard is hurt and I imagine won't play until after the first int'l break.  Costa is gone.  Matic is gone to A RIVAL...Bakayako and Morata, imo, are just replacements for those two.  And good replacements?  I have no idea.  I've read Madrid fans that think Morata just beat up on poor teams.  I've read Madrid fans who love Morata and think he will do fine.  But for me, Costa was already a great striker and now we have the unknown.  So their two big signings are just replacements.  The only real addition is Rudiger, and while he will be fine I suppose, to me that's just Chelsea adding to their depth at CB and prepping for the extra games that they'll see in the CL.  Just a massive disappointment in the off-season and I think that the margins in the top 6 are so razor thin that the bad start I feel they are headed for might be one they will struggle to recover from all year.  

I'm not doing anyone else.  None of the other teams have a prayer of finishing top 6.  Everton's transfer window seemed like an insane cash grab of mediocrity and they lost a really good striker, so they are 100% worse off, imo.

Be back in 3 weeks to finalize this

 
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Good stuff @shader - completely disagree on Arsenal - but like the analysis.

I could easily see that group of teams still adding 15-18 players combined in the next few weeks.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Good stuff @shader - completely disagree on Arsenal - but like the analysis.

I could easily see that group of teams still adding 15-18 players combined in the next few weeks.
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Yeah I think a lot will change which will make the predictions pointless.

I know Arsenal don't seem the trendy pick right now, but if they do keep Sanchez/Ozil/Lacazette...I don't know something tells me that they are going to get on a roll and focus every bit of attention on the league.  That being said, I've always thought they'd lose Sanchez and if that ends up happening, I'll be dropping them quickly out of the top 4.  For me, he's the best player in the EPL and it isn't close.

 
El Floppo said:
Irons finish 2 and get promoted.

btw... the championship looks like top flight from the 80s given the teams in there. pretty much all big clubs that have been in the prem in recent years.
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By my count, 19 of the 24 teams in the Championship have spent at least one season in the Premier League.  Brentford, Bristol City, Burton, Millwall and Preston NE are the only ones that haven't.   Surprisingly, two of the five are London based.

Bristol is one of the ten biggest cities in England but neither local club has ever been in the Premiership.  Bristol City hasn't been top tier since getting relegated in 1980.  Bristol Rovers' history is an exercise in futility.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Good stuff @shader - completely disagree on Arsenal - but like the analysis.

I could easily see that group of teams still adding 15-18 players combined in the next few weeks.
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As long as United subtract one player then I'm happy with where they are starting the season.  I think fullbacks are a weakness but seems like Mou is toying with 3 at the back - I think that will suit Valencia but not Darmian.

 
Dembele for 130m? Ludicrous. Hes a massive talent yes but he scored only six times in the Bundesliga and 10 times overall in 50 matches. Dortmund are mad not to sell.

The Neymar deal has blown the top off the transfer market. Numbers are staggering and not sustainable. This is reminiscent of the housing bubble in 2007.

 
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Native said:
Dembele for 130m? Ludicrous. Hes a massive talent yes but he scored only six times in the Bundesliga and 10 times overall in 50 matches. Dortmund are mad not to sell.

The Neymar deal has blown the top off the transfer market. Numbers are staggering and not sustainable. This is reminiscent of the housing bubble in 2007.
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The economics of the global sport are unreal and complex and I don't even know what to think about how a bubble would burst or what that would mean.

But when a player is sold for more than the value of entire teams in the same division...that's odd. 

 
Coutinho has has not might have

Well crap.  Something about Coutinho and a transfer request.  It's insanity.  What a sport.

 
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