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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ramsay Hunt Experience
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Looks like TFC is also talking to Andrea Belotti. Getting both Belotti and Insigne in the same summer would be outrageous. Not sure where all the money is coming from.....
DJackson10
Footballguy
Theres reports they want Belotti too. WTF is TFC getting this money at? I like them both but they shouldn't be going to MLS just yet either. I could also see this backfiring for TFC because I don't think either position is as huge of need as other areas and they might spend less on other areas.
Also mind boggling finding out Altidore makes almost $7M per year. WTF?
DJackson10
Footballguy
Romano said they need to work on getting rid of Jozie who makes almost 7M a year and a buyout of 4.5M. Sides are talking but nothing can be done till Jozy is done. Also nothing done with Insigne officially yet.
I also heard Insigne wasn't even looking for that much from Napoli and would sign for less with them then what TFC is even offering. The disrespect Napoli is giving a great loyal player who played for his boyhood club is astounding.
DJackson10
Footballguy
MLS might want to look into this before accepting the signings. Don't want another Inter MIA issue
DJackson10
Footballguy
@MichaelSingh94
There hasn’t been any meaningful communication between Toronto FC and Andrea Belotti (as of today), but I am hearing TFC are in talks with Genoa's Domenico Criscito and another Italian striker from Serie A, per sources. Stay tuned
There hasn’t been any meaningful communication between Toronto FC and Andrea Belotti (as of today), but I am hearing TFC are in talks with Genoa's Domenico Criscito and another Italian striker from Serie A, per sources. Stay tuned
So, now that we are past Christmas - and I am officially allowed to look at the table, time to re-visit the pre-season predictions.
I still like the top-3, but not in that order. City appear to have too much depth, even over title-rivals Chelsea and Liverpool.
New order:
Title Contenders
1. Man City - they just sold a £55m player, who they have barely used this season.
2. Liverpool - big match with Chelsea coming up - and then AFCON for a few weeks - will determine if they are in a title race.
3. Chelsea - still a top team, but a pretty disappointing run - could fall out of title race with loss to Liverpool.
Champions League Contenders - 1 spot
Absent an injury crisis at Liverpool/Chelsea, I can't see either falling out of the top-4
4. Tottenham
- but also Conte + January reinforcements. I think they will be fresher with no European matches in the spring. Wins in the games in hand against Burnley and Brighton would put them in 4th now.5. Arsenal - Arteta does seem to be getting control of the team. Good young players. Tough stretch (home to City, away to Spurs - with two matches against Liverpool in Cup Semis) coming up in January will probably reveal if they are contenders for the top-4.
6. Manchester United - on paper, the talent is there, but there seems to be a struggle in how to fit all the pieces together. I think they meander through the season, with some good performances mixed with some head-scratchers. Poch will rejuvenate them next season.
7. West Ham - good start, now fading. I think they are not deep enough to keep up, but this is a good squad.
8. Leicester - I think they will struggle to stay in the race for a European spot. Lack of depth, and some aging players (Vardy) will hurt their chances. They dropped out of Europa, but into Europa Conference League - so they should go far, which will stretch them in the league.
I think I did a pretty good job at the bottom of the table also.
20. Norwich seem certain to go down. Just not enough PL talent in the squad.
19. Newcastle* - Current squad is likely to be relegated. But, this January window will be decisive. They certainly have the money, but I think the challenge will be to spend it wisely - on players who know how to survive a relegation battle. Instead of big money signings, that I think the fan base will want, I think they need to sign a few players to grind out games. A recent spate of injuries is not helping. (To be fair to Ashely though - he did manage to get the sale through quickly...)
18.
I think there are 3 contenders for the 3rd spot: Burnley, Watford and Leeds. But, each are also capable of staying up. Burnley - defensively sound, which should keep them in most games to get at least a point - as 8 draws in 15 games would attest. They have 4 games in hand - which may not be a plus with fixture congestion later. Watford - highest scoring team of the relegation fodder, they need to use that to get maximum points against bottom-half teams. Leeds - they have been hit with some injury bugs, and may be running out of injury, but when healthy, I think they have enough grit to avoid relegation.
The only other team I think could get dragged into the relegation race is Brentford - they got off to a nice start, but have slipped back since. I think they have done enough to stay up, but they will need to continue to pick up points against bottom half teams.
McBokonon
Footballguy
I think this characterization is wrong. There’s some exceptions, but by and large the Newcastle fanbase isn’t looking for splash signings. I don’t live there so my only access is to various forums and their media, but most fans are realistic and want, more than anything, solid defenders (Tarkowski for example though Trippier might happen), midfield help, a striker to complement (or maybe replace now with his calf injury) Wilson and so on. Most acknowledge that loans will have to be a large part of this. Any references to megastars are usually in response to stupid clickbait articles from the Chronicle.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Giovinco with a interesting statement about money in regards to cautioning Insigne to come to MLS
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“When I arrived in 2015, I was promised money that was not there, but I don’t want to discuss these details. I have no regrets about my choice. I had more goals and assists than games. I did well even if it wasn’t beneficial.”
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I have to assume this was more pointed towards sponsorship hopes than salary because he received every penny in salary he signed for. My guess is that they told him there would be extra sponsorship opportunities that never materialized.
He also said that Isigne would have to accept that he will likely fall off the radar of the national team. I do feel for Giovinco in this area. He really could have helped Italy in a time they could not find any offense but since he played in MLS he was all but black balled from the national team. I could easily see that happen to Isigne as well depending on the National team coach at the time.
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“When I arrived in 2015, I was promised money that was not there, but I don’t want to discuss these details. I have no regrets about my choice. I had more goals and assists than games. I did well even if it wasn’t beneficial.”
===========
I have to assume this was more pointed towards sponsorship hopes than salary because he received every penny in salary he signed for. My guess is that they told him there would be extra sponsorship opportunities that never materialized.
He also said that Isigne would have to accept that he will likely fall off the radar of the national team. I do feel for Giovinco in this area. He really could have helped Italy in a time they could not find any offense but since he played in MLS he was all but black balled from the national team. I could easily see that happen to Isigne as well depending on the National team coach at the time.
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Desert_Power
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
It's a tier of 1.
Barring massive injuries, because they have stars two deep at every position, City have the title wrapped up.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I'll give some brief thoughts about Arsenal, as I've finally been able to see them a bit this holiday season.
It's certainly hard to know how long some things will last (Smith-Rowe's per minute scoring does not seem sustainable, but he's kind of done it since last Boxing Day so who knows?), but it's also clear that there is a case of addition by subtraction now that Auba is out of the team. And I say that without taking any side over whether Auba was a cancer or whatever. It's just that Laca and the young guys work in a much more natural way. Lacazette gets to play the false nine he's always preferred to play (at times it's almost like him and Odegaard are working as dual 10s). Saka and Martinelli are given the space they need to be goal-threatening wings. It gives them some balance so that Odegaard can still contribute defensively while still being the chance creation threat ironically kind of giving them the Ozil that defends that fans have always wanted (though Odegaard plays the position far differently than Ozil did).
Ben White and particularly Gabriel are their best CB pairing in some time, even if White in particular isn't the finished article. In terms of being a reliable player that you can count on, I think Tomiyasu is a significant upgrade over Bellerin in terms of defensive consistency. And Ramsdale has had several better than good games where his shot stopping and distribution have been pretty impeccable. Which is to say that I think it's a better, younger, and more balanced Arsenal team than we've had for a long time. But I don't think it's a very deep one. There are expensive players like Pepe, Partey, and Auba who just don't really fit that well. After years of taking #### from the fans, Xhaka is still pretty indispensable to how they play. It's kind of the same with Lacazette. Nketiah and Balogun may be next big things and good strikers, but there's nobody on the team that could play the same type of facilitating striker role if Laca gets hurt.
Oddly, the attacking MFs in Odegaard and Smith-Rowe might be the easiest to cover in the case of injury if they're willing to play Charlie Patino (who looks to be a can't-miss prospect).
It's certainly hard to know how long some things will last (Smith-Rowe's per minute scoring does not seem sustainable, but he's kind of done it since last Boxing Day so who knows?), but it's also clear that there is a case of addition by subtraction now that Auba is out of the team. And I say that without taking any side over whether Auba was a cancer or whatever. It's just that Laca and the young guys work in a much more natural way. Lacazette gets to play the false nine he's always preferred to play (at times it's almost like him and Odegaard are working as dual 10s). Saka and Martinelli are given the space they need to be goal-threatening wings. It gives them some balance so that Odegaard can still contribute defensively while still being the chance creation threat ironically kind of giving them the Ozil that defends that fans have always wanted (though Odegaard plays the position far differently than Ozil did).
Ben White and particularly Gabriel are their best CB pairing in some time, even if White in particular isn't the finished article. In terms of being a reliable player that you can count on, I think Tomiyasu is a significant upgrade over Bellerin in terms of defensive consistency. And Ramsdale has had several better than good games where his shot stopping and distribution have been pretty impeccable. Which is to say that I think it's a better, younger, and more balanced Arsenal team than we've had for a long time. But I don't think it's a very deep one. There are expensive players like Pepe, Partey, and Auba who just don't really fit that well. After years of taking #### from the fans, Xhaka is still pretty indispensable to how they play. It's kind of the same with Lacazette. Nketiah and Balogun may be next big things and good strikers, but there's nobody on the team that could play the same type of facilitating striker role if Laca gets hurt.
Oddly, the attacking MFs in Odegaard and Smith-Rowe might be the easiest to cover in the case of injury if they're willing to play Charlie Patino (who looks to be a can't-miss prospect).
DJackson10
Footballguy
NewlyRetired said:
Giovinco got blackballed because of Conte's beliefs on MLS. However Giovinco was a fringe National team player at best. The only reason any of us wanted him on the national team was because he was one of the few actual strikers for the national team who was consistently scoring
Weird stuff coming from Lukaku:
Romelu Lukaku to@SkySport: "Physically I am fine. But I'm NOT happy with the situation at Chelsea. Tuchel has chosen to play with another system - I won't give up, I'll be professional. I am not happy with the situation but I am professional - and I can't give up now". #CFC
Romelu Lukaku to@SkySport: "Physically I am fine. But I'm NOT happy with the situation at Chelsea. Tuchel has chosen to play with another system - I won't give up, I'll be professional. I am not happy with the situation but I am professional - and I can't give up now". #CFC
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
====
https://www.mundodeportivo.com/futbol/atletico-madrid/20211230/1001731025/insigne-escucho-atletico-decantarse-exotico-destino.html
Atlético Madrid, West Ham and Newcastle all made contract offers to Lorenzo Insigne but none of them matched Toronto's offer. He was tempted by Atlético especially, but in the end chose the more lucrative contract.
https://www.mundodeportivo.com/futbol/atletico-madrid/20211230/1001731025/insigne-escucho-atletico-decantarse-exotico-destino.html
Atlético Madrid, West Ham and Newcastle all made contract offers to Lorenzo Insigne but none of them matched Toronto's offer. He was tempted by Atlético especially, but in the end chose the more lucrative contract.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
That's really odd. He's been hurt a fair bit, but was the main player Tuchel wanted this summer (I think) and has been the focus when healthy. I guess I don't do the tactics very well, but he's playing in a classic #9 role I think - maybe he expected to play wide or something? I have to assume he didn't expect Chelsea to play a 4-X-X type formation.
El Floppo
Footballguy
it is weird.
maybe he's thinking they were going to play in more of a straight up 3 man front line, so he doesn't have to do all the work up top. even with the 2 guys immediately behind/running off him in the current setup, it feels like the play has typically gone... push it downfield to Rom, and then he has to win and hold the ball until somebody shows up... which has been late. I mentioned shape yesterday, and that was a big part of it- positionally stretched when they go forward, and then not there on either side of the ball for the second ball. I know they're dealing with injuries, but the (exceedingly high quality) guys they have on the field and/or the tactics are just not getting it done.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I guess he gave this interview 3 weeks ago, and he spoke in Italian and some are questioning whether the translated quotes properly convey his meaning. I always thought he would be a target man in the center forward role. Its not like he's famous for his touch and dribbling. I'm sure our manager will have a helpful explanation on this tomorrow.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
I have a question for all the experts. When I watch Premier League games, I see very little flopping, time wasting and multiple players accosting the referee.
But then when you watch Concacaf and MLS, it's just a complete disaster in all three of those areas. It's a very, very big turnoff for me. And I just assumed that's how all the leagues were, but as I've watched a little more EPL in the past few weeks, I'm seeing that's not the case.
So why is that? Why is all that BS allowed to go on in MLS? Is it a rules difference? Is it differing referee competence? Why such a huge difference?
I enjoyed the Timbers' run in the MLS a lot this year, but all that stuff just absolutely drives me up a wall.
But then when you watch Concacaf and MLS, it's just a complete disaster in all three of those areas. It's a very, very big turnoff for me. And I just assumed that's how all the leagues were, but as I've watched a little more EPL in the past few weeks, I'm seeing that's not the case.
So why is that? Why is all that BS allowed to go on in MLS? Is it a rules difference? Is it differing referee competence? Why such a huge difference?
I enjoyed the Timbers' run in the MLS a lot this year, but all that stuff just absolutely drives me up a wall.
El Floppo
Footballguy
huh. I do. but when the PL was mostly english players (and pre PL), there was something in their culture that intensely disliked the histrionics, diving and/or embellisments. I think they saw it as something different (xenophobic)- continental or south american... and not good. as the game has gotten faster, more expensive and global, I don't see that behavior any more...they're all looking for every advantage in every second. and while it's not as bad as Italy or Spain, I don't notice a difference with MLS, tbh...
but Concacaf players south of the US border are historically notorious for that stuff...all considered part of the game, like any other skill.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
there is flopping in the EPL IMO. But you are correct that it is more prevalent in MLS.
MLS is LOADED with South American and Central American players where flopping and time wasting is part of the culture sadly. I don't like it in any form but with a significant portion of the world wide soccer fan base not caring, I don't see it ever changing in my lifetime.
The league with the least of this crap is the Bundesliga. By no coincidence, the Bundesliga also has precious few players from Latin America.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Mexico is also less action than the EPL and Bundesliga -- sounds like probably more similar to Spain. Didn't see anything specific to MLS.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
DJackson10
Footballguy
Flopping is very prevalent in the EPL and it's not called as much. The English snobs love to deny this happens though because they still think their league is the purest out of anyone. Raheem Sterling literally flopped to get a PK vs Denmark in Euro's this past summer then got England to the next round. Italy had an issue with this for yrs but over the last 3-4 yrs refs if they aren't carding it are at the very least not awarding players going down so easily especially in the box.
MLS had a big problem with this and adapted a similar strategy of not awarding players going down so easy. However with the numerious amount of South American and some Mexican players in the league time wasting and flopping and multiple players surrounding the ref is still an issue. The problem is the Refs with the surrounding them don't use their power like they should. If you surround the ref they can give you a yellow no questions ask. You continue to do it and they can throw you out on a second yellow. But Because refs don't use the rule players think they can do it. NE vs PHI had one of the most blatant time wasting by Revs players in Philly during a draw a few weeks before the season ended. Philly was down multiple guys but still almost got a win. Revs players were time wasting and their one player kicked a ball into the stands after fouling a Union player. He could have easily been carded for the foul and then time wasting and been sent off but wasn't.
However I see players in the EPL Flop every match I've watched. Some clubs are more prevalent then others too. To answer the question CONCAF is just inept at officiating in General. It's one of the worst refed areas in the world and allows that dumb stuff. The Champions League is worst. Another example Sparissa played the Union first leg in Saarissa end of match Sap player goes full on tackle to Union LB Kai Wagner. No VAR but had VAR been involved the SAP player should've received a straight Red for the horrible tackle. Sap coaches on the pitch getting into it with Union players and one Sap player had his hand on a Union players neck. A few yellow cards were given to both teams which was crazy but the biggest aggressors on the SAP side didn't even get suspended despite Concafe reviewing the tap and clear as day blatant suspension worthy stuff.
Unfortunately in this part of the world we all realize it's gonna happen and not much will ever be done about it.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Fun reaction on Calcio twitter but mostly because some idiot Juventino supporter put a picture of Scamacca up and called him a punk millennial because he had a bunch of tats and didn't fit the Juventus way. He's someone known for bigot views and such and got destroyed on the subject but no one at first knew why he even brought it up till we saw the news about China and this being a rumor at first.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Think he meant he was disappointed with his events such as his injury but at the same time I think he thought the system was going to be different. The system isn't helping any of their strikers or offensive guys. I think Ben Chillwell I saw a stat leads the club in Goals from run of play.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I said "least crap" not "no crap"
Insert LOL for Post (Thanks Joe for disable that GRRR)
encaitar
Footballguy
I very rarely see a flop when a guy gets zero contact on a player like I do in Spain, MLS, or South America or at least not nearly as prevalent. Sure embellishment is happening frequently when a guy gets hit, but a good portion of those are fouls that wouldn't have been called without the embellishment and those don't bother me as much.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Maybe he was told they’d be moving to a 3-5-2 with Werner, Havetz, etc being the 2nd 2? They’re game is predicated right now on the two wings getting into attack and (at least the other day) that was only CP.CletiusMaximus said:
From my perspective, Hudson-Odoi has been pretty dreadful whenever he’s played from an attacking perspective. He seems very black hole-ish and makes the wrong pass a lot or the pass a tick too late. They seemed much more cohesive after they took him off for Kanye who ended up playing wing.
El Floppo
Footballguy
The EPL moves a lot faster, so it's harder to see it happening...but no hyperbole, I don't see a substantial difference with MLS.
Funny though- English players used to berate anybody diving or embellishing, before the league fully opened up to foreigners. It's so commonplace there now, unless it's really blatant, nobody batts an eye.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I feel like CHO was carrying the team offensively without Lukaku- lively, and routinely getting past players the way CP used to to open up opposing D and create opportunities for himself or teammates. but the last couple games he's been just awful.
encaitar
Footballguy
I've been really trying to figure CHO out. He seems to have world class skills to beat a man off the dribble. He also has excellent control and first touch. However, he might be the worst finisher on Chelsea's squad and seems to be unable to do anything in the box other than cross somewhat accurately.
Essentially he's a frustrating player because he'll do something amazing to get a chance for the team, then completely #### that chance up in spectacular ways.
El Floppo
Footballguy
encaitar
Footballguy
Kinda true, although CP is 10 times the finisher that CHO is. I think CHO and CP are very comparable players though.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
I do wonder how much of CHO goodness and resulting drop off is related to Chilwell going down. He was having one hell of a season and makes life much easier for that left winger.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Sinn Fein said:
Fabrizio Romano @FabrizioRomano
How Chelsea can get best out of Lukaku? Thomas Tuchel: “Training, training, playing. Training, playing, training, sleeping, eating good, training, playing, sleeping, eat good, drink a lot of water, sleep, train and don’t give interviews”.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I think Rom is just frustrated that Tuchel has gone with a system that has no place for a beard daddy for Pulisic.
