roadkill1292
Footballguy
I'd really like to slam MLS for page after page but I'm a little intimidated by Andy's overall historical knowledge to do so.
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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (16 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ramsay Hunt Experience
- Start date
shader
Footballguy
I get it. But last year, Real Madrid beat Malmo 10-0 over two legs. You can't tell me Tottenham, Sevilla or Borussia Dortmund wouldn't have put up a bigger fight AND those games would have had much higher ratings.
Yeah, I get that the minnows playing the big teams has a certain appeal to it. I personally don't share that appeal, but I can understand it.
shader
Footballguy
The only reason I'm discussing it is because it's been in the news and there have been articles about it. I'm not saying that they need to change it, but it appears that they are looking to make changes, so I figured a message board was a pretty good place to discuss scenarios. Apparently not.
El Floppo
Footballguy
sounds like you and RHE should get a room with nothing but the big teams on your PPV porn station.
IMO, if teams like Tott can't finish in the top teams of their league, they have no business being in a "champions" league.
For me the difference is intent. Shader is not trying to troll anyone. He's talking about making changes to CL - which, by the way, so are the people involved with CL. So, whether we like it or not, I think changes are coming. No harm in tossing out a few ideas.
shader
Footballguy
Finishing in the "top" is subjective. Once you've opened pandora's box and begun rewarding teams for finishing 4th place in their league, what's the big deal about moving that to 6 or 7?
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Shader-
I think it's admirable how hard you've thrown yourself into the game. And while I don't often agree with you, I doubt I disagree with you much more than anyone else in these threads. But this is the internet, and you're new. People are going to disagree with you passionately, particularly when you suggest changes to the way things are. Soccer fans, in general, seem suspicious of change. Traditions are held dear (as I'm sure you've discovered as a Liverpool fan).
With that said, there's nothing wrong with enjoying the game in the way you see fit. I'd be concerned with you tweaks to the Champions League (Bayern fans might go months without seeing a meaningful game some years), but I understand the impulse.
I think it's admirable how hard you've thrown yourself into the game. And while I don't often agree with you, I doubt I disagree with you much more than anyone else in these threads. But this is the internet, and you're new. People are going to disagree with you passionately, particularly when you suggest changes to the way things are. Soccer fans, in general, seem suspicious of change. Traditions are held dear (as I'm sure you've discovered as a Liverpool fan).
With that said, there's nothing wrong with enjoying the game in the way you see fit. I'd be concerned with you tweaks to the Champions League (Bayern fans might go months without seeing a meaningful game some years), but I understand the impulse.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Total number of games. It's already somewhat of an issue.
I know there are mismatches in the group stage and that's partly because of the limited number of teams from the big leagues that are granted berths. But that seems like a small price to pay for keeping the number of games at a reasonable level while still getting adequate representation from the rest of the continent.
FTR, I appreciate these kinds of discussions, though I guess they can be offputting to some of this thread's participants.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I'm all for ideas and discussion. and I absolutely get shader isn't trying to troll.
I'm too lazy to go back and find the posts- but the way they were worded felt less about discussion and more about a kind of lhucksian, uninformed "this is broke so here's how it should be fixed"... which is why I brought up the comparison to non-soccer people. IMO, the posts deserve the responses they've gotten- which is mostly eye-rolling. still not sure about andy's intent or why shader should get his panties so bunched about getting called out after jumping head first into uncharted waters.
El Floppo
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
In fairness, my idea the other day about the CL was way too far out of the box. I kind of see why it would be annoying. But I don't see why raising the caliber of competition in the existing CL group stages is that big of a deal.
This is the unwinnable argument - same as the NCAA - do you reward the top 10 teams in the big conferences, or do you throw the little guys a bone.
Ultimately, I think the big teams need the minnows more than they think. Letting Barca beat up on a minnow in October, means they don't have to overexert themselves and can still concentrate on the league. Force them into difficult matches, and they will either concentrate on the league, or the CL - but not both.
By giving the minnows a bone, they don't mind getting crushed by Barca. They get a payday that they can then help spread around their own domestic league, and it keeps a wider audience interested in the game (in general - not that specific game).
In the end, I suspect the big money teams will threaten to take their ball and go home, because money talks, and bull#### walks. (That and big money guys like to stay big money guys with little or no downside risk....)
shader
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
welcome back gb. but as a lifelong reds fan, taht should be an accustomed state for you.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Seriously, slam away. If I post something stupid, or insulting to other fans (not in a joking way), feel free to slam. It should be expected.
But I hear what you are saying and I will try hard to not post so much in this thread any more as I guess I do post too much.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
You're not insulting and you don't post too much. I have a philosophical difference, that's all, and I recognize my limitations.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Only a few days until the football starts back up. Did Rebecca have her kid yet?
shader
Footballguy
Dude, you are fine posting, that was jerky of me. My apologies on that one. I'm trying to get into the MLS. Atlanta is within 4 hours of me and I read yesterday that my hometown of Nashville is going to put in a bid for an MLS franchise. No idea if it's a long shot, but Nashville is a booming town, so I think it'd be a great fit for both parties.
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Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Often, we have these arguments without defining our terms. So what do we want out of the Champions League?
Parity? Because on one hand, we have that. We've never had a repeat champ. On the other hand, has there been a "minnow" winner since Porto (who is more of a medium sized fish)? Is a system where 5 or 6 teams realistically have a shot really a display of parity? That's, of course, more than just about any domestic league. Of course, a team like Leicester couldn't win the BPL until they did, but I still think it's valuable to look at rules that seem designed to give us parity and candidly ask whether they meet that goal. Until last season, I think it would been hard to argue that the English league system, complete with pro/rel, provided anything close to parity.
Broad representation? It's a noble goal, but you can see why big clubs might get pissed that they have to fly to Kazakhstan in midweek to play a team that everyone knows can't win the CL. In my opinion, my views on what is optimal to see as a fan are never going to prevail in the long run over the owners' views of what is most profitable for them.
The highest proportion of big games/big players? This would be my personal preference, but I'm perfectly happy supporting what we've got. But I do think that this is the goal that clubs will eventually drift to, because its what I'd probably do as an owner. But the pull of tradition is strong, so the change is likely to be gradual.
Parity? Because on one hand, we have that. We've never had a repeat champ. On the other hand, has there been a "minnow" winner since Porto (who is more of a medium sized fish)? Is a system where 5 or 6 teams realistically have a shot really a display of parity? That's, of course, more than just about any domestic league. Of course, a team like Leicester couldn't win the BPL until they did, but I still think it's valuable to look at rules that seem designed to give us parity and candidly ask whether they meet that goal. Until last season, I think it would been hard to argue that the English league system, complete with pro/rel, provided anything close to parity.
Broad representation? It's a noble goal, but you can see why big clubs might get pissed that they have to fly to Kazakhstan in midweek to play a team that everyone knows can't win the CL. In my opinion, my views on what is optimal to see as a fan are never going to prevail in the long run over the owners' views of what is most profitable for them.
The highest proportion of big games/big players? This would be my personal preference, but I'm perfectly happy supporting what we've got. But I do think that this is the goal that clubs will eventually drift to, because its what I'd probably do as an owner. But the pull of tradition is strong, so the change is likely to be gradual.
I think so - thought i saw her doing some Olympic soccer stuff. One of the idiots with her said something to the effect of good to have her back, looking good as ever, or some such thing
shader
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
she must have- I've seen her covering the olympics.
and she looks fantastic.
well... still looks like a dog, but a fantastic one.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Yes!!! She's done some Olympic coverage. And if Floppo continues on his anti-Rebecca crusade that will be 10x as unconscionable as anything shader is posting.
I think so - thought i saw her doing some Olympic soccer stuff. One of the idiots with her said something to the effect of good to have her back, looking good as ever, or some such thing
Wait, so that was you?
Jaysus
Good times!
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
No idea if he's ahead or behind Holding. Think Arsenal pretty much have to sign a CB, but who knows with Aresene. He always says that you can't get deals early in the window, and then we get an injury crisis and suddenly a guy like Mustafi's price goes up 15 million pounds. Shrewd!
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
roadkill1292
Footballguy
A glimpse of a non-pregnant Rebecca earlier this week was like a great dark cloud rolling off into the distance and being replaced by a happy sunny day.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Kafka
Footballguy
Hey, hey, hey...everyone take a deep breath...I think its pretty cool that Shader has taken to soccer, and "that" team...I'm impressed by how much soccer knowledge/history he has assimilated in such a short span. That being said, Shader (switches tense), you have to cool your jets, so to speak... there's many folk here who are very well versed...
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Kafka
Footballguy
Kafka
Footballguy
Kafka
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Hypothetically, I think Roma would leapfrog a Bologna or something. Not sure they'd pull the tradition card to take Roma over Napoli or Fiorentina.
I think the EPL would work similarly. If Everton makes finishes fourth, I imagine they'd probably get the invitation. If it were Wolves? I think Liverpool or Man U would likely get to leapfrog them.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Good to see him putting aside his hobby of being a professional footballer to focus on his career as a rehab patient.
Kafka
Footballguy
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Big Olympic match on now - Mexico v. South Korea.
South Korea needs a draw to advance, and keep their dream alive of avoiding mandatory military service...
Plus, #### Mexico...
Germany taking on the mighty Fiji, and up 2-0 after 14 minutes
ETA - as an added bonus, there is no commentary on the SK v. Mex match
South Korea needs a draw to advance, and keep their dream alive of avoiding mandatory military service...
Plus, #### Mexico...
Germany taking on the mighty Fiji, and up 2-0 after 14 minutes
ETA - as an added bonus, there is no commentary on the SK v. Mex match
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El Floppo
Footballguy
I haven't seen them, but SK put up a lot of goals in those first two games. this one should be an interesting test.
I also am loving that Brazil might crash out in group stage. "zika" that, mofos.
Kafka
Footballguy
The Gator
Footballguy
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So @El Floppo, hypothetically, if Rebecca Lowe and a stranger were drowning, and you can only save one, who would you save?
