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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (3 Viewers)

Native said:
So what happens to Zlatan now? He may not come back until January but is he toast? I'd take him for sure.
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I would think once he shows fitness he would have his choice of teams.  He wouldn't be cup tied in the CL, he could conceivable sign anywhere that wanted/needed him for an end of the season run.  

Then of course there is always MLS, China etc...

 
NewlyRetired said:
I have two questions for Chelsea fans:

1) Are there any rules on how many players teams in the EPL are allowed to keep on the books and then loan out or can Chelsea do this as much as they want?

2) I am assuming the contract these players sign (like say Miazga) are for significantly higher salary terms than the team they loan the player to is willing to pay.  Does Chelsea as the loaning club absorb some/most of the salary these players are owed and the team they are loaned to picks up the rest?
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Chelsea currently have 92 players under contract  :shock:  plus two academy scholars

https://www.premierleague.com/news/408901

 
posted this in the qatar thread for no real good reason... 

in the world cup qualifier between Australia and Saudi Arabia yesterday, the SA players appear to not participate in a pre-arranged moment of silence for the victims of the london terror attacks... which included 2 aussies. 

it kinda-sorta looks like some of the players are paying their repsects, with arms behind them and standing still (and others clearly don't give a ####)... but as a team, they're not visibly participating in this.

link to article and some videos.

 
El Floppo said:
posted this in the qatar thread for no real good reason... 

in the world cup qualifier between Australia and Saudi Arabia yesterday, the SA players appear to not participate in a pre-arranged moment of silence for the victims of the london terror attacks... which included 2 aussies. 

it kinda-sorta looks like some of the players are paying their repsects, with arms behind them and standing still (and others clearly don't give a ####)... but as a team, they're not visibly participating in this.

link to article and some videos.
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Seems ####ty, but also seems like social media overkill.  From what I can tell moments of silence are not part of Saudi culture - I am unsure how salty about this I need to be.

 
Jaysus said:
Seems ####ty, but also seems like social media overkill.  From what I can tell moments of silence are not part of Saudi culture - I am unsure how salty about this I need to be.
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I'm a little in the same mindset... but how hard is it for them to grasp. not a new concept- and some of the players at least seem to respect it. just takes a simple order- prior to kickoff, everybody line up and remain motionless for a minute because the heretics are up to something.

 
El Floppo said:
Jaysus said:
Seems ####ty, but also seems like social media overkill.  From what I can tell moments of silence are not part of Saudi culture - I am unsure how salty about this I need to be.
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I'm a little in the same mindset... but how hard is it for them to grasp. not a new concept- and some of the players at least seem to respect it. just takes a simple order- prior to kickoff, everybody line up and remain motionless for a minute because the heretics are up to something.
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fwiw...

The Australia federation, known as the FFA, said Saudi team officials knew about the plan to hold a minute's silence before the match and had indicated that the players wouldn't participate, saying the tradition, common at football matches, was "not in keeping with Saudi culture."

Saudi Arabia players did not line up in the centre circle during a minute's silence on Thursday.

The Saudi federation's statement a day later said: "The players did not intend any disrespect to the memories of the victims or to cause upset to their families, friends or any individual affected by the atrocity.

"The Saudi Arabian Football Federation condemns all acts of terrorism and extremism and extends its sincerest condolences to the families of all the victims. But to be honest, #### them.''
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B Maverick said:
I would think once he shows fitness he would have his choice of teams.  He wouldn't be cup tied in the CL, he could conceivable sign anywhere that wanted/needed him for an end of the season run.  

Then of course there is always MLS, China etc...
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Also, he will be continuing to rehab at United's complex so there is a chance he could still resign.

 
I got booked this morning for the first time in 25 years.  I was taken down in the box twice on the same play, and while yelling at the ref still scored.  I was written up for dissent.  Good times.  

 
Didier Drogba, Shaun Wright-Phillips and Omar Bravo all in the starting lineup for Phoenix tonight in the USL :)

 
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Football Observatory player values

The exclusive CIES Football Observatory algorithm is based on the thorough analysis of almost 2,000 paying fee transfers. The variables through which transfer values are modelled notably include the performance of both players and employer clubs, international status, contract, age and position. More information is available in the 16th edition of the CIES Football Observatory Monthly Report.

Spurs with 2 of the top-3 valued players - Neymar, Dele, Kane

Pulisic comes in at #53 with a value of €60M - Mbappe is the only 18-yo rated higher.

Its not exactly a "who is best" rating system, as it takes age and contract status into account.  But - in terms of where Pulisic ranks, right now - just outside the top-50 is a nice place to be.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Football Observatory player values

The exclusive CIES Football Observatory algorithm is based on the thorough analysis of almost 2,000 paying fee transfers. The variables through which transfer values are modelled notably include the performance of both players and employer clubs, international status, contract, age and position. More information is available in the 16th edition of the CIES Football Observatory Monthly Report.

Spurs with 2 of the top-3 valued players - Neymar, Dele, Kane

Pulisic comes in at #53 with a value of €60M - Mbappe is the only 18-yo rated higher.

Its not exactly a "who is best" rating system, as it takes age and contract status into account.  But - in terms of where Pulisic ranks, right now - just outside the top-50 is a nice place to be.
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That is backed by this article which puts Pulisic in some pretty elite company already (it also shows how good Dembele is).  If CP can translate what he does in limited minutes into consistent 90 minute production week in and week out...  If nothing else, this skill will always be there:

And last night against Trinidad and Tobago, Pulisic scored twice after runs off the ball into dangerous areas. His ability to read space and slip unmarked into the penalty box is already elite. Thirty-six times in the last season Pulisic made a run to receive an entry pass into the penalty area, and 16 times he dribbled by a defender to get into the penalty area. In this statistic, Pulisic led all Bundesliga players. He outpaced even Bayern’s Thomas Muller, the 2014 World Cup hero for Germany who had made his name ghosting into scoring positions without alerting the defense.
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https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-great-american-soccer-hope-is-here-for-real-this-time/

 
Sinn Fein said:
Football Observatory player values

The exclusive CIES Football Observatory algorithm is based on the thorough analysis of almost 2,000 paying fee transfers. The variables through which transfer values are modelled notably include the performance of both players and employer clubs, international status, contract, age and position. More information is available in the 16th edition of the CIES Football Observatory Monthly Report.

Spurs with 2 of the top-3 valued players - Neymar, Dele, Kane

Pulisic comes in at #53 with a value of €60M - Mbappe is the only 18-yo rated higher.

Its not exactly a "who is best" rating system, as it takes age and contract status into account.  But - in terms of where Pulisic ranks, right now - just outside the top-50 is a nice place to be.
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Eric Dier top 21? :lmao:

 
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Sinn Fein said:
Football Observatory player values

The exclusive CIES Football Observatory algorithm is based on the thorough analysis of almost 2,000 paying fee transfers. The variables through which transfer values are modelled notably include the performance of both players and employer clubs, international status, contract, age and position. More information is available in the 16th edition of the CIES Football Observatory Monthly Report.

Spurs with 2 of the top-3 valued players - Neymar, Dele, Kane

Pulisic comes in at #53 with a value of €60M - Mbappe is the only 18-yo rated higher.

Its not exactly a "who is best" rating system, as it takes age and contract status into account.  But - in terms of where Pulisic ranks, right now - just outside the top-50 is a nice place to be.
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Nice try Daniel Levy.

 
I know he's an old man at 29, but I refuse to believe that messi in any metric isn't the top transfer guy. arguably the best of all time, still not out of his prime (or too much). but yeah, alli and kane are worth more for sure... because... yeah.

 
El Floppo said:
I know he's an old man at 29, but I refuse to believe that messi in any metric isn't the top transfer guy. arguably the best of all time, still not out of his prime (or too much). but yeah, alli and kane are worth more for sure... because... yeah.
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I think the thing with Messi is that his wages would be so astronomically high, it lowers his transfer fee value.

Players like Dele or Kane would be on 1/3 the wages of Messi (or Ronaldo, or any number of more experienced players) even with a transfer to a bigger club.

 
Bonzai said:
You're insane if you think Eric Dier is more valuable than Toni Kroos.
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Dier is probably over-rated.  I am assuming there is a bump for English players - but he is actually a Portuguese player in terms of counting towards home-grown quotas.  But, a full international, starter for a squad that finished runner-up in the PL for 2 consecutive years, 4 years younger than Kroos - and on a long-term deal...Dier may not be more valuable, but I bet he would cost pretty much the same coming from Spurs.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I think the thing with Messi is that his wages would be so astronomically high, it lowers his transfer fee value.

Players like Dele or Kane would be on 1/3 the wages of Messi (or Ronaldo, or any number of more experienced players) even with a transfer to a bigger club.
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I hear you- but I said any metric.

a chance to get a living legend, still playing at or near prime? maybe the list of potential suitors is less than those other guys... but come on.

 
Bonzai said:
You're insane if you think Eric Dier is more valuable than Toni Kroos.
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The CIES gives an overview of their algorithm. I'm sure it produces some anomalous results as any formula would, but over the past few years I think its been much more accurate than Transfermarkt's valuations, which is the only other readily available source that tries to do this and always seems to be 25-50% low when a transfer actually goes through.

The detailed description of the formula is here: http://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/mr/mr16/en/

Here's a short explanation from this week's post:

The exclusive CIES Football Observatory algorithm is based on the thorough analysis of almost 2,000 paying fee transfers. The variables through which transfer values are modelled notably include the performance of both players and employer clubs, international status, contract, age and position. More information is available in the 16th edition of the CIES Football Observatory Monthly Report.

The English Premier League is over-represented among footballers listed. The estimated transfer value of the tenth most expensive Premier League player is € 85 M. This figure is € 73 M for the Spanish Liga, € 51 M for the Italian Serie A, € 47 M for the German Bundesliga and € 40 M for the French Ligue 1. The youngest player in the rankings is the French prodigy Kylian Mbappé (€ 93 M), while the oldest is the evergreen Portuguese striker Cristiano Ronaldo (€ 112 M).
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I think its pretty fascinating, but obviously the best measure of value comes when a deal is struck.

 
El Floppo said:
I hear you- but I said any metric.

a chance to get a living legend, still playing at or near prime? maybe the list of potential suitors is less than those other guys... but come on.
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I am not saying Messi is not better than any of the top-3 listed - just the financial impact is different given his wages, and longevity.

What is the market for Messi?

Bayern, Man United, Man City - maybe Chelsea?   Obviously China - but I think this algorithm ignores China and only looks at the top-5 leagues.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Dier is probably over-rated.  I am assuming there is a bump for English players - but he is actually a Portuguese player in terms of counting towards home-grown quotas.  But, a full international, starter for a squad that finished runner-up in the PL for 2 consecutive years, 4 years younger than Kroos - and on a long-term deal...Dier may not be more valuable, but I bet he would cost pretty much the same coming from Spurs.
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Dude...

 
Sinn Fein said:
Again - this is transfer value - not who is a better player.

:shrug:

In a world where John Stones goes for £50M, Eric Dier could easily go for £70M if United or City come calling...
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Even if that were the case, do you think you could get Kroos for 70mil?

 
I will say that I think they're pretty close on Kane's price.  Still shouldn't be higher than Messi's though.

And speaking of Stones, how did his value increase in their estimation.

 
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