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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (3 Viewers)

Semi-serious question though - Neymar to PSG is not really good for the sport, is it?

Aside from kicking off a chain of reactions as Barça spends the new money - this blows the lid off of what we have come to consider "reasonable" top transfer values.  Maybe we were already headed there, and this just speeds up the process - but I don't think an arms races is ultimately good for the sport.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I have seen that rumor, although today I saw that they want to make a run at Lemar.  Of course, I also read that Barca were now after Dembele or Dybala and not Phil.  All I know is that Arsenal will probably end up with Alexander Hleb on loan. 
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The thing about Coutinho though is, I thought he was mates with Neymar.  I would think that diminishes his desire to go to Barça - but maybe entices him to Paris.

I have been wondering if this is the start of a long barren spell for Barça - teams don't seem as willing to sell, and if Barça can't draw players like Coutinho could they be stuck in a rut for a while?

 
Sinn Fein said:
Semi-serious question though - Neymar to PSG is not really good for the sport, is it?

Aside from kicking off a chain of reactions as Barça spends the new money - this blows the lid off of what we have come to consider "reasonable" top transfer values.  Maybe we were already headed there, and this just speeds up the process - but I don't think an arms races is ultimately good for the sport.
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This shouldn't have much effect on transfer values (which are insane as it is), because this was a release clause.  Lots of players have outrageous release clauses put in their contracts so as to protect the club a bit in case of a discontent.  I haven't read the contracts myself, but Ronaldo's is like 600M and Messi's 300M?

The only reason it's not great for soccer is that no one will hardly get a chance to see Neymar play.  But I could give a ####, because #### barca.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Semi-serious question though - Neymar to PSG is not really good for the sport, is it?

Aside from kicking off a chain of reactions as Barça spends the new money - this blows the lid off of what we have come to consider "reasonable" top transfer values.  Maybe we were already headed there, and this just speeds up the process - but I don't think an arms races is ultimately good for the sport.
Click to expand...
I think we have to wait and see how this is treated under FFP.  PSG obviously think they can comply.  Everyone else kind of assumes they have to be cooking the books somehow. 

I hate to beat a dead horse, but we knew we were in a period of insane transfer fee inflation when Kyle Walker went for 50 million pounds.  I think teams have to be more worried about wage inflation.  A team might have to pay more in transfer fees to get a good player, but they can sell for more money too.  But wage inflation really can't be offset. 

 
Sinn Fein said:
Semi-serious question though - Neymar to PSG is not really good for the sport, is it?

Aside from kicking off a chain of reactions as Barça spends the new money - this blows the lid off of what we have come to consider "reasonable" top transfer values.  Maybe we were already headed there, and this just speeds up the process - but I don't think an arms races is ultimately good for the sport.
Click to expand...
I'm probably alone in this but I like the talent being dispersed even a tiny bit more widely. It's one reason I like the Prem and may not have enjoyed it so much when one team was winning it all the time. I'm desperate for someone to take Juventus down, too, and I like them.

 
roadkill1292 said:
I'm probably alone in this but I like the talent being dispersed even a tiny bit more widely. It's one reason I like the Prem and may not have enjoyed it so much when one team was winning it all the time. I'm desperate for someone to take Juventus down, too, and I like them.
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:shrug:   I think this has the opposite effect - the gulf is widening between the wealthy and not-wealthy clubs.  Barça to PSG is not exactly dispersing the talent.  And, when Barça go on to buy players from Liverpool (or Juventus, or Monaco) its not really dispersing the talent.

Well, I guess it is similar to Southampton dispersing their talent to Liverpool  ;)

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I think we have to wait and see how this is treated under FFP.  PSG obviously think they can comply.  Everyone else kind of assumes they have to be cooking the books somehow. 

I hate to beat a dead horse, but we knew we were in a period of insane transfer fee inflation when Kyle Walker went for 50 million pounds.  I think teams have to be more worried about wage inflation.  A team might have to pay more in transfer fees to get a good player, but they can sell for more money too.  But wage inflation really can't be offset. 
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Yeah - I thought Walker's deal was pushing the boundaries a bit - but, he is English (home-grown), and was in the team of the year last season - so I thought it was a reasonable fee - given an expanding market.

But, teams figuring out how to pay 100+million for players seems to move things into a new stratosphere.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Just to throw a little water on all this Liverpool celebration, who are you guys going to get to replace Big Phil when he inevitably goes to Barca now that Neymar is gone?
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As long as I've been a fan of the game (3 years, I'm like a bonafide veteran in here yet?  Nah probably not) I've assumed that one day Phil will go to Barca.  Most of this off-season I've assumed that he would go next year.  The one thing I know is that Klopp doesn't want to sell him, he has no release clause, he seems happy, and the fanbase would absolutely revolt if he was sold (especially considering how good the team looks atm in the preseason).  

But there are some big differences between the Liverpool that sold Suarez and the Liverpool of today.  The TV money has made the team wealthy.  So while they probably really needed that money back then to bolster the overall team (even though much of that money was wasted), the team really doesn't NEED money.  The only way they'd sell him is if he is unhappy.

I'm of the opinion Klopp has promised him that he'd sell him after the WC if he still wants to go and that's what I expect will happen.

That being said..there's an outside chance he stays permanently, especially if the team really achieves big things this year.  I was reading some info from a Brazilian about the rise of the EPL in Brazil.  Guys like Gabriel Jesus would NEVER have gone to City just 5 years ago.  But things are different now.  The EPL has supposedly gotten really popular in Brazil over the past few years.  So...who knows.  

 
It is going to be an interesting few months coming up for Barcelona.  A rare occasion where the back line is set but there are questions about how the attack will be constructed.  A new coach with over $200mm to spend on that attack.  Barcelona has increasingly become a 4-3-3 in name only as Messi abandons the right for more of a 10.  This results in an unbalanced formation with or without Neymar.  There is an opportunity for the tactics to evolve into a more stable structure and Valverde is not as married to the typical Barcelona system.

For those that watch Coutinho more closely, do you think they can play that left/wide forward role?  He has always had appeal to me as closer to Iniesta.  Even if he is brought in, Barcelona needs to go after Dybala or Dembele.

 
Slapdash said:
It is going to be an interesting few months coming up for Barcelona.  A rare occasion where the back line is set but there are questions about how the attack will be constructed.  A new coach with over $200mm to spend on that attack.  Barcelona has increasingly become a 4-3-3 in name only as Messi abandons the right for more of a 10.  This results in an unbalanced formation with or without Neymar.  There is an opportunity for the tactics to evolve into a more stable structure and Valverde is not as married to the typical Barcelona system.

For those that watch Coutinho more closely, do you think they can play that left/wide forward role?  He has always had appeal to me as closer to Iniesta.  Even if he is brought in, Barcelona needs to go after Dybala or Dembele.
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Coutinho played left wing 75% of the time last year. (maybe more) I personally don't like him there.  If Barca chose him to be Neymar's replacement, I think it would be very bad for Barca and for Coutinho.  Their fans would turn on him as he just doesn't have the abilities of Neymar and he loves to launch long shots.  Very shoddy replacement for Neymar.  Coutinho is magical in the middle though, which is where I assume Barca would eventually want to use him (Iniesta replacement next year).

I'd go after Dembele.  Coutinho is great, but Dembele is a next level talent.  Yeah, he'd need some time to bake, but that's the type of guy you want to replace Neymar with, imo.

 
shader said:
Coutinho played left wing 75% of the time last year. (maybe more) I personally don't like him there.  If Barca chose him to be Neymar's replacement, I think it would be very bad for Barca and for Coutinho.  Their fans would turn on him as he just doesn't have the abilities of Neymar and he loves to launch long shots.  Very shoddy replacement for Neymar.  Coutinho is magical in the middle though, which is where I assume Barca would eventually want to use him (Iniesta replacement next year).

I'd go after Dembele.  Coutinho is great, but Dembele is a next level talent.  Yeah, he'd need some time to bake, but that's the type of guy you want to replace Neymar with, imo.
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Yeah, I've largely had the same impressions about Coutinho, but don't watch every Liverpool game or anything.  Playing him too advanced like the LW in a 4-3-3 wouldn't be the best.

Of course, there should be money for both.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I'm trying to understand the details - but I think Neymar has to pay the release clause personally.  Hence his recent deal with Qatar to be an ambassador for the 2022 WC - for 300M

Qatar Sports Investment coincidentally also own PSG.  So, now that Neymar has the funds to pay the buyout clause - PSG is free to sign Neymar.  Technically - the deal won't violate FFP because it is Neymar paying the fee, not PSG (wink, wink).
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It is an odd deal for sure.  So was the initial transfer to Barcelona, which caused a lot of headaches for the club.  Neymar Sr. has always been a shady character and all about the :moneybag:

 
I really hate this move for Neymar.  I view the French league as the 5th best league in Europe and I don't even know where you watch Ligue 1 games.  For a guy that wants to "expand his brand worldwide" it seems like a terrible move.  Obviously the reality is that it's about two things:  Money and the CL.  He's banking on winning the CL which seems like quite a risk.  

I mean, yeah living in Paris with tons of cash is great...but I just don't see how this benefits his career unless he truly does go to the next level, scores more goals than anyone else and wins the CL.

 
Slapdash said:
Yeah, I've largely had the same impressions about Coutinho, but don't watch every Liverpool game or anything.  Playing him too advanced like the LW in a 4-3-3 wouldn't be the best.

Of course, there should be money for both.
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I think Barcelona have moved on from Coutinho.  Liverpool have been 100% firm that there's no chance that he's leaving, although I do think you'll see him replace Iniesta next summer.  It's honestly the best thing for all parties to wait a year too, so that Barcelona can focus their money and time on getting a forward.

 
shader said:
I really hate this move for Neymar.  I view the French league as the 5th best league in Europe and I don't even know where you watch Ligue 1 games.  For a guy that wants to "expand his brand worldwide" it seems like a terrible move.  Obviously the reality is that it's about two things:  Money and the CL.  He's banking on winning the CL which seems like quite a risk.  

I mean, yeah living in Paris with tons of cash is great...but I just don't see how this benefits his career unless he truly does go to the next level, scores more goals than anyone else and wins the CL.
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It is an odd move.  PSG have a good squad though and were 7 minutes of Neymar God-mode away from advancing. 

 
shader said:
I think Barcelona have moved on from Coutinho.  Liverpool have been 100% firm that there's no chance that he's leaving, although I do think you'll see him replace Iniesta next summer.  It's honestly the best thing for all parties to wait a year too, so that Barcelona can focus their money and time on getting a forward.
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Perhaps.  Barcelona have a glut of younger midfield talent (Rafinha/Samper/Denis/Deulofeu/Gomes) that were never going to develop under Enrique.  Valverde is much more committed to midfield play so it will be interesting to see who out of these guys can take the next step.  They'll have to do it quickly to compete though, Iniesta is aging.

 
Sinn Fein said:
Semi-serious question though - Neymar to PSG is not really good for the sport, is it?

Aside from kicking off a chain of reactions as Barça spends the new money - this blows the lid off of what we have come to consider "reasonable" top transfer values.  Maybe we were already headed there, and this just speeds up the process - but I don't think an arms races is ultimately good for the sport.
Click to expand...
Yeah, now it will never catch on.

 
MLS just announced a pretty amazing extension with Adidas.

In 2010 Adidas paid $200m for an 8 year sponsorship deal.  $25 million a year.

Adidas just signed an extension for $700m for the next 6 years.  $116 million a year

That is stunning growth. To put that in perspective with other revenue sources, the TV deal brings MLS about $70m a year.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NewlyRetired said:
MLS just announced a pretty amazing extension with Adidas.

In 2010 Adidas paid $200m for an 8 year sponsorship deal.  $25 million a year.

Adidas just signed an extension for $700m for the next 6 years.  $116 million a year

That is stunning growth. To put that in perspective with other revenue sources, the TV deal brings MLS about $70m a year.
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I just read something else that REALLY hammers this home.

The Adidas deal by itself (no ticket sales, no tv money, no other revenue) covers the entire salary cap (including GAM) in the current CBA.

:o :o

 
NewlyRetired said:
I just read something else that REALLY hammers this home.

The Adidas deal by itself (no ticket sales, no tv money, no other revenue) covers the entire salary cap (including GAM) in the current CBA.

:o :o
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Does this cover all MLS kits plus sideline ads and putting their logo on MLS marketing stuff everywhere?  Can MLS players still do individual deals with Nike for shoes and apparel marketing?

Just for comparison, Chelsea's deal with Nike is about $60m per year for 15 years, Man United's Adidas deal is about $75mil per year and Real Madrid's deal with Adidas pays about $150mil per year.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Does this cover all MLS kits plus sideline ads and putting their logo on MLS marketing stuff everywhere?  Can MLS players still do individual deals with Nike for shoes and apparel marketing?
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I don't know the details to that level in terms of what it restricts the players from doing (there might be language in the CBA as well that affects these things).

Here is the article from Forbes that has some extra info

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2017/08/02/major-league-soccer-adidas-agree-to-700-million-extension

 
These were the two most powerful statements I saw today regarding this landmark deal.

===============

"It is by far the biggest deal in the history of our league," says MLS commissioner Don Garber, "This deal, in my perspective, helps solidify our position as the leading soccer property in North America. This is a really strong statement about where MLS is today, and how we’re poised for a very positive and energized future."

Mark King, president of Adidas North America, says something similar when asked about why Adidas has made such a significant commitment to the league. "At the core of the Adidas brand around the world is soccer," says King, "And when you look at what's the opportunity to really drive soccer in the United States, there's only one option, and that's MLS."

 
shader said:
As long as I've been a fan of the game (3 years, I'm like a bonafide veteran in here yet?  Nah probably not) I've assumed that one day Phil will go to Barca.  Most of this off-season I've assumed that he would go next year.  The one thing I know is that Klopp doesn't want to sell him, he has no release clause, he seems happy, and the fanbase would absolutely revolt if he was sold (especially considering how good the team looks atm in the preseason).  

But there are some big differences between the Liverpool that sold Suarez and the Liverpool of today.  The TV money has made the team wealthy.  So while they probably really needed that money back then to bolster the overall team (even though much of that money was wasted), the team really doesn't NEED money.  The only way they'd sell him is if he is unhappy.

I'm of the opinion Klopp has promised him that he'd sell him after the WC if he still wants to go and that's what I expect will happen.

That being said..there's an outside chance he stays permanently, especially if the team really achieves big things this year.  I was reading some info from a Brazilian about the rise of the EPL in Brazil.  Guys like Gabriel Jesus would NEVER have gone to City just 5 years ago.  But things are different now.  The EPL has supposedly gotten really popular in Brazil over the past few years.  So...who knows.  
Click to expand...
Liverpool isn't in the same league as Barcelona.  They won't be able to stop him if he wants to go and I don't see why, if Barcelona openly pursued him, he wouldn't want to go.

It all depends on how much Barcelona want him.  He's not Neymar.  There are other comparable options.

 
jonessed said:
Liverpool isn't in the same league as Barcelona.  They won't be able to stop him if he wants to go and I don't see why, if Barcelona openly pursued him, he wouldn't want to go.

It all depends on how much Barcelona want him.  He's not Neymar.  There are other comparable options.
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I don't recall saying LIverpool were in Barcelona's league.  However there are a number of reasons why I think Coutinho will stay at least until the world cup is over.  Of course if Coutinho went on strike and refused to play Liverpool couldn't stop him...but I don't see that happening.  

Coutinho is in the form of his life and has arguably a better manager right now than he'd have at Barcelona..so staying for one more season wouldn't be a bad move imo.

 
shader said:
I don't recall saying LIverpool were in Barcelona's league.  However there are a number of reasons why I think Coutinho will stay at least until the world cup is over.  Of course if Coutinho went on strike and refused to play Liverpool couldn't stop him...but I don't see that happening.  

Coutinho is in the form of his life and has arguably a better manager right now than he'd have at Barcelona..so staying for one more season wouldn't be a bad move imo.
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I think Barcelona will be looking to make a big signing to replace Neymar in this window.  If that opportunity presented itself to Coutinho I doubt he would risk waiting.

 
jonessed said:
I think Barcelona will be looking to make a big signing to replace Neymar in this window.  If that opportunity presented itself to Coutinho I doubt he would risk waiting.
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Not really completely his choice.  He has no release clause and doesn't seem like the type of guy that would really push things.  The opportunity has already presented itself and Liverpool have already rejected it as firmly as you can.  As LFC have learned with Keita, the player just wanting to go isn't enough.

 
NewlyRetired said:
These were the two most powerful statements I saw today regarding this landmark deal.

===============

Mark King, president of Adidas North America, says something similar when asked about why Adidas has made such a significant commitment to the league. "At the core of the Adidas brand around the world is soccer," says King, "And when you look at what's the opportunity to really drive soccer in the United States, there's only one option, and that's MLS."
Click to expand...
well, there are the national teams but Nike has them locked in through 2023

 
Even if Neymar stayed I'd want Coutinho. Like has been mentioned, he's more of a Iniesta spot on the field (I can't type "replacement". Like Puyol and Xavi, he can't be replaced).

 
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