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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (6 Viewers)

B Maverick said:
If Sanchez was moved to the right (where he played for Barca) and Martial was given a run on the left that front three would rival anyone.

I agree its a tough place to play.  Expectations are high as they should be for the top club in England.  Problem is he performs and gets left out while others constantly let the team down with poor play and are starting the next three games.
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I'd assume it's a practice/off the game field attitude commitment issue, given everything you're saying

 
B Maverick said:
If Sanchez was moved to the right (where he played for Barca) and Martial was given a run on the left that front three would rival anyone.

I agree its a tough place to play.  Expectations are high as they should be for the top club in England.  Problem is he performs and gets left out while others constantly let the team down with poor play and are starting the next three games.
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What now?  :pokey:

 
El Floppo said:
I'd assume it's a practice/off the game field attitude commitment issue, given everything you're saying
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It's very clear he's not "with the program."  I think a lot of fans are drawn to Martial because he represents "attacking football" and he's seen as an antidote to Mourinho's rigidity, but I'm somewhat turned off by his refusal to get with the program.  I think the kid has a lot of growing up to do.  I think it's an overall problem at United really.  I saw more than one player flapping their arms in that "UH, BUT DaaaaAAAD!" way in the Brighton game.  They have a brittle spirit.  I didn't watch the Spurs game but from what I read they crumbled as soon as things started to not go their way. I think that attitude is way more out of line with United's DNA or whatever you want to call it than not playing "attacking football."  Sucks.

 
El Floppo said:
I'd assume it's a practice/off the game field attitude commitment issue, given everything you're saying
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To be fair it is just my opinion based on what I see in games.  Some pundits and I guess Jose see differently, obviously.  And not being a coach, i'm just some guy coaching from my couch.

But your point is probably also a factor.  There is always more that is going on then us supporters know.

Bonzai said:
It's very clear he's not "with the program."  I think a lot of fans are drawn to Martial because he represents "attacking football" and he's seen as an antidote to Mourinho's rigidity, but I'm somewhat turned off by his refusal to get with the program.  I think the kid has a lot of growing up to do.  I think it's an overall problem at United really.  I saw more than one player flapping their arms in that "UH, BUT DaaaaAAAD!" way in the Brighton game.  They have a brittle spirit.  I didn't watch the Spurs game but from what I read they crumbled as soon as things started to not go their way. I think that attitude is way more out of line with United's DNA or whatever you want to call it than not playing "attacking football."  Sucks.
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These are good points overall.  I also think too many of us read into his body language and lack of smiling.  People love Lingard.  He looks like he is having fun and he runs endlessly.  It masks his shortcomings.  Martial looks like he doesn't care, looks angry and relatively unhappy.  Gives people a negative opinion.

There is no fear when a team comes to Old Trafford anymore.  They believe they can win there.  The team has lost its belief that no matter the score they can win.  That seems to have left with SAF.  I don't know if Jose can instill it, or the team can believe it if he could.  Moyes changed the culture from we will play our way to we will play to control their play, LVG made it even more structured and now Jose has just made it bland.  Maybe a new coach can bring back the fun and killer instinct?  But will the players respond to Jose or anyone else?

 
What I really loved about those SAF teams was the way they threw themselves into the game.  So committed.  They did whatever it took to get it over the line.  No pouting.  I think that’s why I like Fellaini—he’s not flashy but he leaves it all on the pitch.  He fights like crazy.  I just don’t see it with this team.  I know the players want to win; they’re doing their best, but something is missing.  

That could be down to Jose—maybe he just doesn’t have it anymore.  He certainly had it in the past, but maybe he’s lost his mojo. I dunno. 

 
Bonzai said:
What I really loved about those SAF teams was the way they threw themselves into the game.  So committed.  They did whatever it took to get it over the line.  No pouting.  I think that’s why I like Fellaini—he’s not flashy but he leaves it all on the pitch.  He fights like crazy.  I just don’t see it with this team.  I know the players want to win; they’re doing their best, but something is missing.  

That could be down to Jose—maybe he just doesn’t have it anymore.  He certainly had it in the past, but maybe he’s lost his mojo. I dunno. 
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I was just about to agree with you in this until you mentioned the  :fro: .  He is one of the people that constantly screw up & arent good enough yet are given opp after opp to play.  

Aside from you liking him, the rest I can agree with.  SAF got more from his players then most managers.  Jose gets less, and each year that less becomes even more less.  And his in game management is  :confused: .  We need goals so lets not put on Mata, Rashford, Martial... lets go with Fellaini or Lingard.

 
B Maverick said:
I was just about to agree with you in this until you mentioned the  :fro: .  He is one of the people that constantly screw up & arent good enough yet are given opp after opp to play.  

Aside from you liking him, the rest I can agree with.  SAF got more from his players then most managers.  Jose gets less, and each year that less becomes even more less.  And his in game management is  :confused: .  We need goals so lets not put on Mata, Rashford, Martial... lets go with Fellaini or Lingard.
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You can disagree with the tactics, but Fellaini rarely "screws up".  He does exactly what is asked of him and fights his ### off to do it.  I think it just comes down to a fundamental disagreement with Jose's tactics.  Which is becoming more and more understandable.  I still want to see him pull it off though. In the end I'm not too concerned with the type of soccer United plays or what tactics they use, I really just like to see players super invested in the game, fighting together, and doing whatever it takes to win.  

 
Absolute nightmare the 2nd run I had:

Real Madrid

Roma

Liverpool

Galatasaray

I don't mind Real, but getting Roma and Liverpool in the same group is not something I want

 
Bonzai said:
You can disagree with the tactics, but Fellaini rarely "screws up".  He does exactly what is asked of him and fights his ### off to do it.  I think it just comes down to a fundamental disagreement with Jose's tactics.  Which is becoming more and more understandable.  I still want to see him pull it off though. In the end I'm not too concerned with the type of soccer United plays or what tactics they use, I really just like to see players super invested in the game, fighting together, and doing whatever it takes to win.  
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Fellaini's best move is chest trap then pass to the other team.  He is hugely overrated in the air and doesn't move quick enough on the ball to do anything but slow everything down.  He is a liability defensively and prone to bad fouls in poor places.  Does he work hard? Yes.  Is he tough? Sure.  Is he good enough for a team with title expectations? NO.

I agree with everything you wrote about the team being invested and fighting for it.

 
B Maverick said:
Fellaini's best move is chest trap then pass to the other team.  He is hugely overrated in the air and doesn't move quick enough on the ball to do anything but slow everything down.  He is a liability defensively and prone to bad fouls in poor places.  Does he work hard? Yes.  Is he tough? Sure.  Is he good enough for a team with title expectations? NO.

I agree with everything you wrote about the team being invested and fighting for it.
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I know I'm not going to change your mind on Big Fella but I just think that most of the criticism towards him is really about the tactics.  It's not pressing, high tempo "attacking football".  Maybe that's what it takes to win nowadays, but I'm still going to support players that buy in to the team and play their hearts out.

 
Deuce AKA Clint Dempsey has retired today. I always loved Deuce over Landon. Dempsey was more of the guy you could easily relate to, the typical never give up American Dream,  where Donovan seemed more like the entitled rich who got everything he wanted. I also hated how Donovan took the whole David Beckham thing with LAG where Beckham went on two loans to Milan to help his standing with the English Nat Team especially when Donovan had done the same thing. I'll miss #DeuceFace a lot 

Deuce AKA Clint Dempsey retires from Futboll. Leaves as Abruptly as he started

 
Bonzai said:
What I really loved about those SAF teams was the way they threw themselves into the game.  So committed.  They did whatever it took to get it over the line.  No pouting.  I think that’s why I like Fellaini—he’s not flashy but he leaves it all on the pitch.  He fights like crazy.  I just don’t see it with this team.  I know the players want to win; they’re doing their best, but something is missing.  

That could be down to Jose—maybe he just doesn’t have it anymore.  He certainly had it in the past, but maybe he’s lost his mojo. I dunno. 
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You can't ask for that type of commitment out of your players and then take a #### on them in every news conference where you're pissed off.  I think it's as simple as that.  Jose may have always been a ####.  May have always expected the media to fawn over him, but guys like Drogba and Milito would have run through brick walls for him.  I just don't think he's been the same guy since going to Madrid and having a bunch of established players pretty much revolt on him.  

 
Ok. Big news. For me. Huge actually. Not sure how many of you know my brother and I started a family brewery a few years ago in Virginia. Anyway, we were just invited to be at a beer festival in Barcelona on October 26th. Two days before El Classico in Barcelona. My brother is also a big Barça fan. So we are going to bite the end of out credit cards hard and be there. 

You guys: any tips on tickets? The company putting on the fest said they can get them for $x. I'm going to start looking for better deals. But it is nice to know we have them if we want them by paying $x. Anyone got any tips? 

@Slapdash @The Kansas Comet @Christo

 
Sebowski said:
Ok. Big news. For me. Huge actually. Not sure how many of you know my brother and I started a family brewery a few years ago in Virginia. Anyway, we were just invited to be at a beer festival in Barcelona on October 26th. Two days before El Classico in Barcelona. My brother is also a big Barça fan. So we are going to bite the end of out credit cards hard and be there. 

You guys: any tips on tickets? The company putting on the fest said they can get them for $x. I'm going to start looking for better deals. But it is nice to know we have them if we want them by paying $x. Anyone got any tips? 

@Slapdash @The Kansas Comet @Christo
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When I've bought tickets I've either gone through the club site or through the hotel I was staying at.   The latter was necessitated by a sold out match and probably wasn't the cheapest way, but i could get awesome seats.  Camp Nou is massive, so just do what it takes to not be in the nosebleeds.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
You can't ask for that type of commitment out of your players and then take a #### on them in every news conference where you're pissed off.  I think it's as simple as that.  Jose may have always been a ####.  May have always expected the media to fawn over him, but guys like Drogba and Milito would have run through brick walls for him.  I just don't think he's been the same guy since going to Madrid and having a bunch of established players pretty much revolt on him.  
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Are you talking about Pogba?  Jose has always had a history of protecting his players, creating that us vs them thing.  Like you said, it's worked so well for him.  I think that has largely been the same.  His treatment of Pogba has been different though.  He went after Shaw too, but that seems to have worked--Shaw has looked great so far this season, Mourinho even approached him after the loss to Spurs and put his arm around him.  But the Pogba thing seems to have gotten away from him.  In his defense, even SAF couldn't wrangle in Pogba.  Could be that Mourinho is just an old crotchety grump estranged from his players, out of touch.  I don't know. It just seems weird that a guy that could inspire such passion from his players could totally lose his touch like that.  I mean the guy has always been full of himself, that's nothing new.  Back then it was charming, maybe now it's alienating.  I have no idea. 

 
Bonzai said:
Are you talking about Pogba?  Jose has always had a history of protecting his players, creating that us vs them thing.  Like you said, it's worked so well for him.  I think that has largely been the same.  His treatment of Pogba has been different though.  He went after Shaw too, but that seems to have worked--Shaw has looked great so far this season, Mourinho even approached him after the loss to Spurs and put his arm around him.  But the Pogba thing seems to have gotten away from him.  In his defense, even SAF couldn't wrangle in Pogba.  Could be that Mourinho is just an old crotchety grump estranged from his players, out of touch.  I don't know. It just seems weird that a guy that could inspire such passion from his players could totally lose his touch like that.  I mean the guy has always been full of himself, that's nothing new.  Back then it was charming, maybe now it's alienating.  I have no idea. 
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Shaw came to mind.  Martial certainly comes to mind.  Whining every five minutes about not signing new players comes to mind.  Complaining about working with the youth players in the ICC this summer comes to mind.  With Shaw, the proof will come when he ####s up.  It's one thing to have said the kid needed to work on taking care of his body.  I get that.  The stuff about how he couldn't be there all the time telling him where to play the ball just serves no purpose in public.  It isn't motivating.  It doesn't bring the team together as "us vs. them."  All it does is make the manager sound defensive.  And there's no way, even at his most arrogant, that pre-Madrid Mourinho would have ever done that.  

When the wheels came off in the second stint at Chelsea, it felt the same way.  Suddenly he was talking about "the young player" and how they couldn't be reached.  

I used to think that the old-school Mourinho ####housery was a way to take some heat off the players.  To make it seem like the press and the refs and everyone else was against the team, so they only had each other.  Now, it's too often a case where he seems to be saying that the players aren't worthy of being coached by The Special One.  Where it's about his legacy and not Man U's.  

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Shaw came to mind.  Martial certainly comes to mind.  Whining every five minutes about not signing new players comes to mind.  Complaining about working with the youth players in the ICC this summer comes to mind.  With Shaw, the proof will come when he ####s up.  It's one thing to have said the kid needed to work on taking care of his body.  I get that.  The stuff about how he couldn't be there all the time telling him where to play the ball just serves no purpose in public.  It isn't motivating.  It doesn't bring the team together as "us vs. them."  All it does is make the manager sound defensive.  And there's no way, even at his most arrogant, that pre-Madrid Mourinho would have ever done that.  

When the wheels came off in the second stint at Chelsea, it felt the same way.  Suddenly he was talking about "the young player" and how they couldn't be reached.  

I used to think that the old-school Mourinho ####housery was a way to take some heat off the players.  To make it seem like the press and the refs and everyone else was against the team, so they only had each other.  Now, it's too often a case where he seems to be saying that the players aren't worthy of being coached by The Special One.  Where it's about his legacy and not Man U's.  
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Back then it was though he had something to prove and the players wanted to help him prove it.  Now he's already established as an "all time great manager".  Since he's already proven it, he thinks everyone needs to just fall in line.  He's not on the way up, he's trying to hang onto what he's created.  Might be onto something there. 

 
Bonzai said:
I know I'm not going to change your mind on Big Fella but I just think that most of the criticism towards him is really about the tactics.  It's not pressing, high tempo "attacking football".  Maybe that's what it takes to win nowadays, but I'm still going to support players that buy in to the team and play their hearts out.
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And I agree with your second part.  But my criticism is Fellaini doesn't fit any tactics.  They try and play long and thru the air.  Hes overrated there.  If they continue to try to pass and move, he cant play quick enough.  He doesnt fit.  But anyway...

For the larger picture and tactics, the team doesnt seem to play together.  As much as we would like  high tempo "attacking football", there is a time and place for it.  But United doesn't seem to GO when they should go.  And they seem to stand and wait for it, or knock the ball slowly around.  I dont know if thats Jose or the players.  SAF could sit back and play counter.  But when they did counter it was a site to see.  Players flying everywhere.  They dont counter like that anymore.  And when they do the player on the ball often gets held up and doesnt see the next pass or just dribbles too much, killing it.  I can handle parking the bus or sitting back.  But when its time to go, GO.  Also dont sit on 1-0. or 2-0.  Go get #3 and kill the game.  Dont see that anymore.

 
The beginning to this makes me sick.  I've tried to move past the CL final loss by telling myself that the team is better (it is) and that the future is bright (it is).  But despite those two facts, logically it's going to be very difficult to make it back there and losing a CL final is a major missed opportunity.

Now please the only thing I ask for is a group with Real Madrid.

 
shader said:
The beginning to this makes me sick.  I've tried to move past the CL final loss by telling myself that the team is better (it is) and that the future is bright (it is).  But despite those two facts, logically it's going to be very difficult to make it back there and losing a CL final is a major missed opportunity.

Now please the only thing I ask for is a group with Real Madrid.
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Maybe a less stressful sport? Curling?

 
Group A: Atletico, Dortmund, Monaco, Club Brugge

Group B: Barcelona, Tottenham, PSV, Inter

Group C: PSG, Napoli, Liverpool, Red Star Belgrade

Group D: Lokomotiv, Porto, Schalke, Galatasaray

Group E: Bayern, Benfica, Ajax, AEK

Group F: Manchester City, Shakhtar Donetsk, Lyon, Hoffenheim

Group G: Real Madrid, Roma, CSKA Moscva, Plezn

Group H: Juventus, Manchester United, Valencia, Young Boys

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think we just saw Liverpool's draw...

ETA - Liverpool cannot be drawn into F or G (or E or H)

Now - its down to A, C, or D, and we all know how this is rigged...

 
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A, C, or D for Liverpool?

C would be fun. Two boss aways.

ETA: I don't want A, feels boring with the Klopp/Dortmund matchup, again...

 
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