***OFFICIAL*** Sons of Anarchy Thread (1 Viewer)

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

What's happened is that the show has become what I thought it would originally be. When I first heard about it I had no doubt it would be cheesy/comical/farcical as I didn't think the subject matter could be treated seriously. It didn't take long to get hooked and I thought Season 1 was fantastic. The writers just haven't been able to sustain the quality and it has slowly slipped into being cheesy/comical/farcical.

Yeah. I don't mind them going to Ireland, but this whole angle dealing with Abel has been a bad idea from the start. He's been a horrible father from the beginning, it's much of an afterthought. His questions about what type of a father he's been will lend itself to the finale as he decides on what to do, but it's never been anything that makes the show good. It's a distraction.

Do you think he was into what John was talking about in the book because he had Abel or was that separate. Im not sure the direction the writers wanted to go on that. If he wanted to get out or at least change the MC because of Abel then he wasnt always a bad father. But if it never crossed his mind, then I pretty much agree. He never took care of the kid, it was always Gemma or Tara or Adrianna when she was alive in that one episode

 

[Insein]

Last episode I turned on my closed captioning. Its a different story now that I can understand WTF the Irish people are saying.

I don't know if its the Irish blood in me but I honestly have no problems understanding the accent. Never went to Ireland or spoke a lick in my life but I can make out what they're saying fine.

Could it be because you are from Philly?

Could be.

 

[mr. furley]

I've mentioned it before but this story line is stupid and getting dumber by the episode.

getting cornier and more incredible than Days of our Lives

 

[ScottyFargo]

What's happened is that the show has become what I thought it would originally be. When I first heard about it I had no doubt it would be cheesy/comical/farcical as I didn't think the subject matter could be treated seriously. It didn't take long to get hooked and I thought Season 1 was fantastic. The writers just haven't been able to sustain the quality and it has slowly slipped into being cheesy/comical/farcical.

Yeah. I don't mind them going to Ireland, but this whole angle dealing with Abel has been a bad idea from the start. He's been a horrible father from the beginning, it's much of an afterthought. His questions about what type of a father he's been will lend itself to the finale as he decides on what to do, but it's never been anything that makes the show good. It's a distraction.

Do you think he was into what John was talking about in the book because he had Abel or was that separate. Im not sure the direction the writers wanted to go on that. If he wanted to get out or at least change the MC because of Abel then he wasnt always a bad father. But if it never crossed his mind, then I pretty much agree. He never took care of the kid, it was always Gemma or Tara or Adrianna when she was alive in that one episode

I guess it's the culture, because none of them are very good fathers, and the cases of John and Piney their kids follow in their footsteps. Yeah I'd have to rewatch the season to see how much of Abel's heart surgery played into Jax's philosophical conundrum. It probably did have a decent amount of bearing on it, but that was while Abel was still hospitalized for months, being reared by nurses and his end of parenting was just stopping by to visit every once in a while.

 

[Moe.]

definitely looks like the show is following the nip/tuck plan.

 

[Steve Tasker]

That market scene was pretty moving...about as "moving" a scene as there's been in this series....

 

[Abraham]

Decent episode. Nowhere near as good as last year though.

 

[Chadstroma]

The season has been the least of the three so far but I think this episode really explained why. It is apparent that this is a tension release that allows the series to have a longer arc. Before, I could not see how they could keep rolling off of the Jax on the reform path against Clay. This seems like a credible way to back off of that for now at least with Jax saying "I am done listening to dead men" and at the same time set it up for later with the letters being stashed in his pack.

 

[Statorama]

Decent episode. Nowhere near as good as last year though.

Show was filled with lots of little great moments though.Tara stepped up.

 

[bg0546]

The season has been the least of the three so far but I think this episode really explained why. It is apparent that this is a tension release that allows the series to have a longer arc. Before, I could not see how they could keep rolling off of the Jax on the reform path against Clay. This seems like a credible way to back off of that for now at least with Jax saying "I am done listening to dead men" and at the same time set it up for later with the letters being stashed in his pack.

That's pretty much how I read it too but I don't buy him EVER, under ANY circumstance, giving up his kid. If he really felt that this life wasn't for that kid then he quits the life, not abandon the kid.

 

[Insein]

Definitely a good episode. While I like that tara stepped up, she should have just shot Salazar the moment he walked in the door and then took off. Oh well. Minor annoyance. I'm glad Abel is resolved. Now its back to that scumbag Hale and setup for the 4th season.

 

[beer 30]

That market scene was pretty moving...about as "moving" a scene as there's been in this series....

Fast forwarded through it, to me it was a waste to play the whole f'n song. I got it 10 seconds in, no need to chew up a whole segment with that.I did like Jax saying he was done listening to dead men.

 

[belljr]

No way Tara dies.

 

[Colts Win]

That market scene was pretty moving...about as "moving" a scene as there's been in this series....

Fast forwarded through it, to me it was a waste to play the whole f'n song. I got it 10 seconds in, no need to chew up a whole segment with that.I did like Jax saying he was done listening to dead men.

Like when they show the the dad putting money in the sleeping homless persons bag. Its like ok we get it there great people.I started to wonder if they where going to show him saving a baby seal next.

 

[Insein]

That market scene was pretty moving...about as "moving" a scene as there's been in this series....

Fast forwarded through it, to me it was a waste to play the whole f'n song. I got it 10 seconds in, no need to chew up a whole segment with that.I did like Jax saying he was done listening to dead men.

Funny I did the same. Fast forwarded. I got the jist from his facial expressions.

 

[Insein]

BTW, she's only his half sister. I mean, cmon...

 

[belljr]

Really enjoyed last nights episode, they cleaned things up a bit too easy but then open some more doors.

Tig not letting him become a member over the dog

 

[5Rings]

Gemma gets at least one money line each week.

Last week, the "three headed grandchild" comment was on point.

this week the "she catches cum in her mouth for a living" was awesome.

Stahl is one sneaky batch. I get why Stahl wanted Hector alive, I get why Alvarez wanted Hector dead, I get why Unser wanted Hector alive...why did Jax kill him? Revenge?

 

[belljr]

Gemma gets at least one money line each week.

Last week, the "three headed grandchild" comment was on point.

this week the "she catches cum in her mouth for a living" was awesome.

Stahl is one sneaky batch. I get why Stahl wanted Hector alive, I get why Alvarez wanted Hector dead, I get why Unser wanted Hector alive...why did Jax kill him? Revenge?

I think so, he took his old lady AND he may have been afraid of it ruining his deal somehow.

 

[DocGonzo]

Gemma gets at least one money line each week.

Last week, the "three headed grandchild" comment was on point.

this week the "she catches cum in her mouth for a living" was awesome.

Stahl is one sneaky batch. I get why Stahl wanted Hector alive, I get why Alvarez wanted Hector dead, I get why Unser wanted Hector alive...why did Jax kill him? Revenge?

I think so, he took his old lady AND he may have been afraid of it ruining his deal somehow.

Agreed. But I'd add that he also probably wanted him dead to make it easier for him to change the culture of the club. Hector dead means Hale likely becomes mayor. So Unser's fear, that Charming PD is replaced with a county agency, likely comes true. Clay explained to Alvarez that this would be bad for the heroin trade etc. If Jax is serious about changing the way the club does business -- and he certainly seems to be at this point -- then starting out with a police force that isn't going to be a puppet of Clay's is probably a good place to start.

 

[belljr]

Gemma gets at least one money line each week.

Last week, the "three headed grandchild" comment was on point.

this week the "she catches cum in her mouth for a living" was awesome.

Stahl is one sneaky batch. I get why Stahl wanted Hector alive, I get why Alvarez wanted Hector dead, I get why Unser wanted Hector alive...why did Jax kill him? Revenge?

I think so, he took his old lady AND he may have been afraid of it ruining his deal somehow.

Agreed. But I'd add that he also probably wanted him dead to make it easier for him to change the culture of the club. Hector dead means Hale likely becomes mayor. So Unser's fear, that Charming PD is replaced with a county agency, likely comes true. Clay explained to Alvarez that this would be bad for the heroin trade etc. If Jax is serious about changing the way the club does business -- and he certainly seems to be at this point -- then starting out with a police force that isn't going to be a puppet of Clay's is probably a good place to start.

Nice. I didn't think that far out in advance but it does make sense. I still think Hale buys it in the end somehow. I "HATE" Stahl but that actress plays that role great, I figure if she makes me hate her that much she must be doing it right!!

 

[Dr. Doofenshmirtz]

Gemma gets at least one money line each week.

Last week, the "three headed grandchild" comment was on point.

this week the "she catches cum in her mouth for a living" was awesome.

Stahl is one sneaky batch. I get why Stahl wanted Hector alive, I get why Alvarez wanted Hector dead, I get why Unser wanted Hector alive...why did Jax kill him? Revenge?

I think so, he took his old lady AND he may have been afraid of it ruining his deal somehow.

Agreed. But I'd add that he also probably wanted him dead to make it easier for him to change the culture of the club. Hector dead means Hale likely becomes mayor. So Unser's fear, that Charming PD is replaced with a county agency, likely comes true. Clay explained to Alvarez that this would be bad for the heroin trade etc. If Jax is serious about changing the way the club does business -- and he certainly seems to be at this point -- then starting out with a police force that isn't going to be a puppet of Clay's is probably a good place to start.

Nice. I didn't think that far out in advance but it does make sense. I still think Hale buys it in the end somehow. I "HATE" Stahl but that actress plays that role great, I figure if she makes me hate her that much she must be doing it right!!

She has this weird thing with her nose. Is that from Otto smacking her one. I dont remember from season 1. She is a cold hearted bitch though

 

[5Rings]

Gemma gets at least one money line each week.

Last week, the "three headed grandchild" comment was on point.

this week the "she catches cum in her mouth for a living" was awesome.

Stahl is one sneaky batch. I get why Stahl wanted Hector alive, I get why Alvarez wanted Hector dead, I get why Unser wanted Hector alive...why did Jax kill him? Revenge?

I think so, he took his old lady AND he may have been afraid of it ruining his deal somehow.

Agreed. But I'd add that he also probably wanted him dead to make it easier for him to change the culture of the club. Hector dead means Hale likely becomes mayor. So Unser's fear, that Charming PD is replaced with a county agency, likely comes true. Clay explained to Alvarez that this would be bad for the heroin trade etc. If Jax is serious about changing the way the club does business -- and he certainly seems to be at this point -- then starting out with a police force that isn't going to be a puppet of Clay's is probably a good place to start.

Nice. I didn't think that far out in advance but it does make sense. I still think Hale buys it in the end somehow. I "HATE" Stahl but that actress plays that role great, I figure if she makes me hate her that much she must be doing it right!!

She has this weird thing with her nose. Is that from Otto smacking her one. I dont remember from season 1. She is a cold hearted bitch though

I think you are right--Early this season I remember Jax asking her how her nose was, or something to that effect.

 

[Insein]

I think you are right--Early this season I remember Jax asking her how her nose was, or something to that effect.

Her face is still messed up from season 1 where otto F'd her up. Not sure the time frame as to how long ago that was. This episode was good. Showed us more of how cold hearted Stahl is. Jax is looking to be in some serious #### when you see the previews for next week. Going to be a great finale.

 

[beer 30]

Agree with all of you, really good episode to get the show back on track. So happy the kid/Ireland stuff is done.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I just wish it didn't take them an entire season to put out a great episode. Not that the entire season was terrible, but this past week's had to be the best so far.

 

[Chadstroma]

Gemma gets at least one money line each week.

Last week, the "three headed grandchild" comment was on point.

this week the "she catches cum in her mouth for a living" was awesome.

Stahl is one sneaky batch. I get why Stahl wanted Hector alive, I get why Alvarez wanted Hector dead, I get why Unser wanted Hector alive...why did Jax kill him? Revenge?

I think so, he took his old lady AND he may have been afraid of it ruining his deal somehow.

Agreed. But I'd add that he also probably wanted him dead to make it easier for him to change the culture of the club. Hector dead means Hale likely becomes mayor. So Unser's fear, that Charming PD is replaced with a county agency, likely comes true. Clay explained to Alvarez that this would be bad for the heroin trade etc. If Jax is serious about changing the way the club does business -- and he certainly seems to be at this point -- then starting out with a police force that isn't going to be a puppet of Clay's is probably a good place to start.

This is great thinking but then I would be unhappy with the writing of the previous episode with Jax's proclamation that he was 'done listening to dead men'. To me, that really signaled that he just felt the whole going legit thing was a fantasy and was set on going the 1%er way... but then they set it up nicely for that conflict to re-emerge later with the letters stashed in his stuff.

 

[Insein]

Gemma gets at least one money line each week.

Last week, the "three headed grandchild" comment was on point.

this week the "she catches cum in her mouth for a living" was awesome.

Stahl is one sneaky batch. I get why Stahl wanted Hector alive, I get why Alvarez wanted Hector dead, I get why Unser wanted Hector alive...why did Jax kill him? Revenge?

I think so, he took his old lady AND he may have been afraid of it ruining his deal somehow.

Agreed. But I'd add that he also probably wanted him dead to make it easier for him to change the culture of the club. Hector dead means Hale likely becomes mayor. So Unser's fear, that Charming PD is replaced with a county agency, likely comes true. Clay explained to Alvarez that this would be bad for the heroin trade etc. If Jax is serious about changing the way the club does business -- and he certainly seems to be at this point -- then starting out with a police force that isn't going to be a puppet of Clay's is probably a good place to start.

This is great thinking but then I would be unhappy with the writing of the previous episode with Jax's proclamation that he was 'done listening to dead men'. To me, that really signaled that he just felt the whole going legit thing was a fantasy and was set on going the 1%er way... but then they set it up nicely for that conflict to re-emerge later with the letters stashed in his stuff.

Yes. I don't think Jax had it all thought out like that. He was probably just thinking, this ******* tried to kill my old lady. He's dead.

 

[bryhamm]

Haven't read much in here because I got started late on this. Watched Season 1 on DVD from Netflix earlier this year. Had to wait for Season 2 to be released, so I set up a recording on the DVR for Season 3. Started watching Season 2 when the discs came out (Aug, I think). Finished up Season 2, then went in to watching the recordings for Season 3. Got caught up last night, just in time for the season finale.

Good series. I don't like Season 3 as much as 1 or 2, though. Did kind of like that they changed the opening theme music while they were in Belfast. Nice touch.

Will be curious how they wrap up this year though. Previews look intense and look like Jacks is gonna be in some hot water with the club.

 

[Insein]

Haven't read much in here because I got started late on this. Watched Season 1 on DVD from Netflix earlier this year. Had to wait for Season 2 to be released, so I set up a recording on the DVR for Season 3. Started watching Season 2 when the discs came out (Aug, I think). Finished up Season 2, then went in to watching the recordings for Season 3. Got caught up last night, just in time for the season finale.Good series. I don't like Season 3 as much as 1 or 2, though. Did kind of like that they changed the opening theme music while they were in Belfast. Nice touch.Will be curious how they wrap up this year though. Previews look intense and look like Jacks is gonna be in some hot water with the club.

Seems to be the consensus that season 3 is the weakest of them all but its still been pretty good. Ireland did drag on for a bit but now its coming to a head. Going to be a great finale. I'm sure the 90 minutes is going to fly by and leave more questions than answers.

 

[mr. furley]

That market scene was pretty moving...about as "moving" a scene as there's been in this series....

Fast forwarded through it, to me it was a waste to play the whole f'n song. I got it 10 seconds in, no need to chew up a whole segment with that.I did like Jax saying he was done listening to dead men.

Like when they show the the dad putting money in the sleeping homless persons bag. Its like ok we get it there great people.

I started to wonder if they where going to show him saving a baby seal next.

that was horrid

 

[Genedoc]

Just caught up after Netflixing Season 1 and 2, and DVRing season 3. I was all excited to finally check out this thread. I'm a little stunned at most of the comments. Maybe I'm a bigger fanboy of the show than I thought. I've loved this season. Some random comments addressing issues people raised:

- Back to Charming, run more guns and shoot more stuff? Really? A show based on nothing more than that has a 1-2 year shelf life, max. By going to Ireland, we've gotten a much richer, deeper appreciation for who John Teller was. It always irked me that this random MC in California was involved with the IRA - now we've got a much better idea why, and why he wanted his family out. I also genuinely loved the juxtaposition of who put the patch first, who put their religion first, and who put their nationality first. We think we've an idea of nationalism here in the USA. We know very littler about it compared to the Irish, especially the die hards who've been fighting this war for longer than we've been a country.

- Nobody cares about Jax relationship w/ Tara? Are you kidding? The tension between the MC and Tara's life has been a central theme for all three seasons, with her rejecting it and then embracing it in order to have what she loves. Her line about "have you ever loved something so much even though you knew it would tear you apart" perfectly compared to Jax relationship with the MC. He knows it's going to kill him, but he loves it too much. Tara's the same way with Jax. The conflict of her in and out of the MC and her in and out of the "real world" is a central tenant to the show. Tara's relationship with Gemma is also critical.

- Disagree about the thing with Abel and Gemma's Dad dragging on too long. The theme of the season is the lengths you'll go to in order to protect your family. I thought it was really well done and wouldn't be surprised to see Hal Holbrook win awards. The scene where Hal Holbrook is screaming that he wants to go home on the porch of the facility with Gemma balling and Tara and the Dr. trying to talk in into coming inside was absolutely gut wrenching. If that didn't kick you in the stomach, something's wrong with you.

- Just shoot the priest? Someone else responded to this, but that's insane. He's a shot caller for one of the most notorious and entrenched terrorist organizations in the world. You shoot him and not only are you dead, but your club is dead, your family is dead, and any descendants they may have are dead. Jax dealt with the Irish the same way he dealt with the Aryan Brotherhood in S2 - curbing his intense desire for revenge and focusing on getting the job done and getting out alive. It's also a critical concept to the show. If guns blazing solved problems, we'd all be healthy and happy, but it doesn't, and Jax realizes this. An eye for an eye and we all end up blind. That's what he's trying to prevent.

- Supporting cast has gotten much, much better over the last two seasons. You've seen moments, brief glimpses of humanity from Piney, Tig, Bobby, Unser, Hale before he was killed, even Alvarez and Chucky have had their moments. Opie may be my favorite character on the show. Love that dude, and he's not as pensively melodramatic as Jax usually is.

- Jax debating about giving up Abel. Any of you know someone who's given up a child for adoption? I do, and I really empathized with Jax. He went with every intention of snatching Abel, but then he saw the adoptive family providing what he could never give. Stability, safety, a loving father who doesn't kill and torture people. They were an American couple, by the way, so whoever opined that they'd be leaving him in Ireland was incorrect. They were Americans. They dressed American and the file Jax had that he opened briefly had all American addresses in it. He doesn't have the option of changing his life - he's already a murderer and now a rat. And there's no way out of the MC alive. He's tried to change his life and his club and not only has he failed miserably, he's contributed to getting his mother involved deeper and put Tara's life and career substantially at risk.

 

[Jaysus]

I agree with the Doc.

 

[Insein]

Just caught up after Netflixing Season 1 and 2, and DVRing season 3. I was all excited to finally check out this thread. I'm a little stunned at most of the comments. Maybe I'm a bigger fanboy of the show than I thought. I've loved this season. Some random comments addressing issues people raised: - Back to Charming, run more guns and shoot more stuff? Really? A show based on nothing more than that has a 1-2 year shelf life, max. By going to Ireland, we've gotten a much richer, deeper appreciation for who John Teller was. It always irked me that this random MC in California was involved with the IRA - now we've got a much better idea why, and why he wanted his family out. I also genuinely loved the juxtaposition of who put the patch first, who put their religion first, and who put their nationality first. We think we've an idea of nationalism here in the USA. We know very littler about it compared to the Irish, especially the die hards who've been fighting this war for longer than we've been a country. - Nobody cares about Jax relationship w/ Tara? Are you kidding? The tension between the MC and Tara's life has been a central theme for all three seasons, with her rejecting it and then embracing it in order to have what she loves. Her line about "have you ever loved something so much even though you knew it would tear you apart" perfectly compared to Jax relationship with the MC. He knows it's going to kill him, but he loves it too much. Tara's the same way with Jax. The conflict of her in and out of the MC and her in and out of the "real world" is a central tenant to the show. Tara's relationship with Gemma is also critical.- Disagree about the thing with Abel and Gemma's Dad dragging on too long. The theme of the season is the lengths you'll go to in order to protect your family. I thought it was really well done and wouldn't be surprised to see Hal Holbrook win awards. The scene where Hal Holbrook is screaming that he wants to go home on the porch of the facility with Gemma balling and Tara and the Dr. trying to talk in into coming inside was absolutely gut wrenching. If that didn't kick you in the stomach, something's wrong with you. - Just shoot the priest? Someone else responded to this, but that's insane. He's a shot caller for one of the most notorious and entrenched terrorist organizations in the world. You shoot him and not only are you dead, but your club is dead, your family is dead, and any descendants they may have are dead. Jax dealt with the Irish the same way he dealt with the Aryan Brotherhood in S2 - curbing his intense desire for revenge and focusing on getting the job done and getting out alive. It's also a critical concept to the show. If guns blazing solved problems, we'd all be healthy and happy, but it doesn't, and Jax realizes this. An eye for an eye and we all end up blind. That's what he's trying to prevent. - Supporting cast has gotten much, much better over the last two seasons. You've seen moments, brief glimpses of humanity from Piney, Tig, Bobby, Unser, Hale before he was killed, even Alvarez and Chucky have had their moments. Opie may be my favorite character on the show. Love that dude, and he's not as pensively melodramatic as Jax usually is. - Jax debating about giving up Abel. Any of you know someone who's given up a child for adoption? I do, and I really empathized with Jax. He went with every intention of snatching Abel, but then he saw the adoptive family providing what he could never give. Stability, safety, a loving father who doesn't kill and torture people. They were an American couple, by the way, so whoever opined that they'd be leaving him in Ireland was incorrect. They were Americans. They dressed American and the file Jax had that he opened briefly had all American addresses in it. He doesn't have the option of changing his life - he's already a murderer and now a rat. And there's no way out of the MC alive. He's tried to change his life and his club and not only has he failed miserably, he's contributed to getting his mother involved deeper and put Tara's life and career substantially at risk.

Excellent synopsis. And thank you for the fresh look. Ive been enjoying this season too. I said the exact same thing about shooting the priest. Sometimes people get a little jaded when its been 3 years from the start that they forget it all. Watching it all in one go puts it all in perspective.

 

[Dr. Bronner]

Haven't read much in here because I got started late on this. Watched Season 1 on DVD from Netflix earlier this year. Had to wait for Season 2 to be released, so I set up a recording on the DVR for Season 3. Started watching Season 2 when the discs came out (Aug, I think). Finished up Season 2, then went in to watching the recordings for Season 3. Got caught up last night, just in time for the season finale.Good series. I don't like Season 3 as much as 1 or 2, though. Did kind of like that they changed the opening theme music while they were in Belfast. Nice touch.Will be curious how they wrap up this year though. Previews look intense and look like Jacks is gonna be in some hot water with the club.

Seems to be the consensus that season 3 is the weakest of them all but its still been pretty good. Ireland did drag on for a bit but now its coming to a head. Going to be a great finale. I'm sure the 90 minutes is going to fly by and leave more questions than answers.

I think a lot of the Ireland stuff was not well-written, they seemed to drag out a lot of Irish cliches (that wallpaper!) but in the grand scheme of things I think it's going to be helpful in moving the story along, in terms of Jax finding out more about what happened with his Dad and re-igniting the struggle between Clay and Jax re: the direction of the crub.

 

[coyote5]

Probably discussed earlier in this thread, but anyone care to put odds on Clay and/or Gemma being involved in John Teller's death? This is where they're going with the plot down the road right?

 

[bg0546]

Probably discussed earlier in this thread, but anyone care to put odds on Clay and/or Gemma being involved in John Teller's death? This is where they're going with the plot down the road right?

I'm pretty sure in previous seasons they flat out said they killed John Teller. IIRC, he had an "accident" and got run over by a semi or something.

 

[coyote5]

Probably discussed earlier in this thread, but anyone care to put odds on Clay and/or Gemma being involved in John Teller's death? This is where they're going with the plot down the road right?

I'm pretty sure in previous seasons they flat out said they killed John Teller. IIRC, he had an "accident" and got run over by a semi or something.

I recall them discussing the accident on a couple occasions, but I don't recall them admitting involvement.... did I really miss that?

 

[beer 30]

I agree with the Doc.

Do not

 

[bg0546]

Probably discussed earlier in this thread, but anyone care to put odds on Clay and/or Gemma being involved in John Teller's death? This is where they're going with the plot down the road right?

I'm pretty sure in previous seasons they flat out said they killed John Teller. IIRC, he had an "accident" and got run over by a semi or something.

I recall them discussing the accident on a couple occasions, but I don't recall them admitting involvement.... did I really miss that?

Been looking around trying to find confirmation, and racking my head to remember better. They may not have flat out said they killed him but I remember conversations between Clay and Gemma where there is the implication that his death wasn't an accident.

 

[beer 30]

As I recall, Clay has been implicated in Teller's death but nothing specifically pointing to either of them. Just rumors and pieces of stories through the 1st season, not a lot in the 2nd and nothing in the 3rd.

 

[Genedoc]

Probably discussed earlier in this thread, but anyone care to put odds on Clay and/or Gemma being involved in John Teller's death? This is where they're going with the plot down the road right?

I'm pretty sure in previous seasons they flat out said they killed John Teller. IIRC, he had an "accident" and got run over by a semi or something.

No, they've never flat out stated Gemma and Clay killed JT, but they've certainly left open that possibility. At the very least, there's a long back story about how and why JT died that Gemma and Clay know and aren't sharing. Gemma told Clay in S1 that he was losing control "just like he did"...Gemma stating that she hoped Jax followed in the "right father's footsteps"...recently mentioning that if Jax goes to Belfast "a lot of old stones start getting uncovered".

 

[Genedoc]

Just caught up after Netflixing Season 1 and 2, and DVRing season 3. I was all excited to finally check out this thread. I'm a little stunned at most of the comments. Maybe I'm a bigger fanboy of the show than I thought. I've loved this season. Some random comments addressing issues people raised:

- Back to Charming, run more guns and shoot more stuff? Really? A show based on nothing more than that has a 1-2 year shelf life, max. By going to Ireland, we've gotten a much richer, deeper appreciation for who John Teller was. It always irked me that this random MC in California was involved with the IRA - now we've got a much better idea why, and why he wanted his family out. I also genuinely loved the juxtaposition of who put the patch first, who put their religion first, and who put their nationality first. We think we've an idea of nationalism here in the USA. We know very littler about it compared to the Irish, especially the die hards who've been fighting this war for longer than we've been a country.

- Nobody cares about Jax relationship w/ Tara? Are you kidding? The tension between the MC and Tara's life has been a central theme for all three seasons, with her rejecting it and then embracing it in order to have what she loves. Her line about "have you ever loved something so much even though you knew it would tear you apart" perfectly compared to Jax relationship with the MC. He knows it's going to kill him, but he loves it too much. Tara's the same way with Jax. The conflict of her in and out of the MC and her in and out of the "real world" is a central tenant to the show. Tara's relationship with Gemma is also critical.

- Disagree about the thing with Abel and Gemma's Dad dragging on too long. The theme of the season is the lengths you'll go to in order to protect your family. I thought it was really well done and wouldn't be surprised to see Hal Holbrook win awards. The scene where Hal Holbrook is screaming that he wants to go home on the porch of the facility with Gemma balling and Tara and the Dr. trying to talk in into coming inside was absolutely gut wrenching. If that didn't kick you in the stomach, something's wrong with you.

- Just shoot the priest? Someone else responded to this, but that's insane. He's a shot caller for one of the most notorious and entrenched terrorist organizations in the world. You shoot him and not only are you dead, but your club is dead, your family is dead, and any descendants they may have are dead. Jax dealt with the Irish the same way he dealt with the Aryan Brotherhood in S2 - curbing his intense desire for revenge and focusing on getting the job done and getting out alive. It's also a critical concept to the show. If guns blazing solved problems, we'd all be healthy and happy, but it doesn't, and Jax realizes this. An eye for an eye and we all end up blind. That's what he's trying to prevent.

- Supporting cast has gotten much, much better over the last two seasons. You've seen moments, brief glimpses of humanity from Piney, Tig, Bobby, Unser, Hale before he was killed, even Alvarez and Chucky have had their moments. Opie may be my favorite character on the show. Love that dude, and he's not as pensively melodramatic as Jax usually is.

- Jax debating about giving up Abel. Any of you know someone who's given up a child for adoption? I do, and I really empathized with Jax. He went with every intention of snatching Abel, but then he saw the adoptive family providing what he could never give. Stability, safety, a loving father who doesn't kill and torture people. They were an American couple, by the way, so whoever opined that they'd be leaving him in Ireland was incorrect. They were Americans. They dressed American and the file Jax had that he opened briefly had all American addresses in it. He doesn't have the option of changing his life - he's already a murderer and now a rat. And there's no way out of the MC alive. He's tried to change his life and his club and not only has he failed miserably, he's contributed to getting his mother involved deeper and put Tara's life and career substantially at risk.

Excellent synopsis. And thank you for the fresh look. Ive been enjoying this season too. I said the exact same thing about shooting the priest. Sometimes people get a little jaded when its been 3 years from the start that they forget it all. Watching it all in one go puts it all in perspective.

I think watching them close together also makes seeing long story arcs easier. It was obvious that the primary theme to season 2 was the danger of attempting to carry too big of a burden by yourself and the redemption that comes from sharing that burden with others who care. Gemma carrying the burden of her rape...Tig/Clay carrying the burden of killing Donna...Jax/Piney carrying the burden of suspecting Clay/Tig...Opie carrying the burden of feeling responsible for Donna's death. Season 3 has been all about family, and the lengths you'll go to in order to protect it, often irrationally. Also, the music in the show is frequently another character. They do a great, great job with the music. It's clearly well thought out and thematically linked to the episode. Loved the Irish music during they Irish episodes. Agree with everyone who said they couldn't understand a word they were saying, though. I'm going to need a translator if we ever travel to Ireland.

A tad more regarding the priest and the notion of the Greater Good. The Priest clearly believes he's doing the Lord's work in sending these "orphans" to live with "good Catholic families". That's the danger of mixing religion and vigilantism...you get Hammas and the IRA and the like. The biggest difference between a gang and a terrorist organization is the belief in the Greater Good through their God. When you're fighting for money here in this world, motives are relatively simple. When you also believe you're fighting for the eternal soul of the combatants, it's another level all together. That's why the IRA has no trouble torturing, using children as tools, etc. They're convinced it's for the "Greater Good". I thought that was an important point/juxtaposition. It also points to something gangs will do that terrorist organizations do less frequently - triangulation. The enemy of my enemy becomes my ally. Shifting alliances. SAMCRO does this all the time in Charming...they'll work with the Bastards when they need to, the Chinese when they need to, even the Mayans. The IRA doesn't play that way. They're much more "we're right, we've always been right, we're going to win, and we'll kill anyone who gets in our way".

Winter Ave Zoli and Kristen Renton.

ETA an important accidental omission.

 

[Insein]

I think watching them close together also makes seeing long story arcs easier. It was obvious that the primary theme to season 2 was the danger of attempting to carry too big of a burden by yourself and the redemption that comes from sharing that burden with others who care. Gemma carrying the burden of her rape...Tig/Clay carrying the burden of killing Donna...Jax/Piney carrying the burden of suspecting Clay/Tig...Opie carrying the burden of feeling responsible for Donna's death. Season 3 has been all about family, and the lengths you'll go to in order to protect it, often irrationally.

Also, the music in the show is frequently another character. They do a great, great job with the music. It's clearly well thought out and thematically linked to the episode. Loved the Irish music during they Irish episodes. Agree with everyone who said they couldn't understand a word they were saying, though. I'm going to need a translator if we ever travel to Ireland.

A tad more regarding the priest and the notion of the Greater Good. The Priest clearly believes he's doing the Lord's work in sending these "orphans" to live with "good Catholic families". That's the danger of mixing religion and vigilantism...you get Hammas and the IRA and the like. The biggest difference between a gang and a terrorist organization is the belief in the Greater Good through their God. When you're fighting for money here in this world, motives are relatively simple. When you also believe you're fighting for the eternal soul of the combatants, it's another level all together. That's why the IRA has no trouble torturing, using children as tools, etc. They're convinced it's for the "Greater Good". I thought that was an important point/juxtaposition. It also points to something gangs will do that terrorist organizations do less frequently - triangulation. The enemy of my enemy becomes my ally. Shifting alliances. SAMCRO does this all the time in Charming...they'll work with the Bastards when they need to, the Chinese when they need to, even the Mayans. The IRA does play that way. They're much more "we're right, we've always been right, we're going to win, and we'll kill anyone who gets in our way".

Winter Ave Zoli and Kristen Renton.

More great insight. Good summary on the back themes for each season. On the accents, again I had no trouble understanding them and I've never been to Ireland or spoke a lick of the Irish accent here in Philly. But I do have Irish blood. Maybe that helped translate, lol. I can't wait for tomorrow. Of course, like I said, it will probably have more questions than answers and then 9 months to wait for them to come.

 

[ang12]

From Sepinwall's twitter:

Whatever issues I've had with Sons of Anarchy s3 overall, tonight's 90-minute finale is really good.

 

[ang12]

That... was... awesome.

 

[Steve Tasker]

So Clay and the rest of the guys knew about Jax making the deal?

Pretty badass episode, all-around...

Looks like the Russians will be a major player in season 4?

 

[mex]

loved it

 

[SayChowda]

Wow.

 

[bryhamm]

Who the h*ll is Thomas?