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***Official Vikings Packers Game Thread Week 2*** (1 Viewer)

mr roboto said:
Andy Dufresne said:
I don't see what's so hard about it. 

Don't drive yourself down into the QB as a finishing move. Matthews clearly did that. 
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But that was just a normal tackle though. It’s not like he pick the guy up and drove him to the ground. 
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exactly.. both that one and the one on Kendricks( I think) they hit the QB in the gut. But they are suppose to be magicians now and in mid-air they are suppose to somehow magically twist away.. :mellow:

 
snogger said:
exactly.. both that one and the one on Kendricks( I think) they hit the QB in the gut. But they are suppose to be magicians now and in mid-air they are suppose to somehow magically twist away.. :mellow:
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 You have guys who are 250 pounds or more tackling someone, I’m not sure how they are supposed to let up mid tackle and not land. 

 
i just hope the officiating crew is better for the next contest against the Pack. It just felt like they were just trying to make more BS calls to even out the blown calls earlier in the game. 

 
mr roboto said:
But that was just a normal tackle though. It’s not like he pick the guy up and drove him to the ground. 
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That's not the new rule. Fans and players can rail all they want to against it but it's pretty obvious what the NFL is getting at with the rule.

"PROTECTION OF QUARTERBACKS

The Committee reviewed hits on quarterbacks inside and outside the pocket. In some instances, the defender used all or part of his body weight to land on the quarterback immediately after the ball was thrown. These actions put the quarterback at risk for injury. The Officiating Department will emphasize that the defender is responsible for avoiding landing on the quarterback when taking him to the ground."

He left his feet, and drove his body into Cousins as he took him to the ground. :shrug:

 
Andy Dufresne said:
That's not the new rule. Fans and players can rail all they want to against it but it's pretty obvious what the NFL is getting at with the rule.

"PROTECTION OF QUARTERBACKS

The Committee reviewed hits on quarterbacks inside and outside the pocket. In some instances, the defender used all or part of his body weight to land on the quarterback immediately after the ball was thrown. These actions put the quarterback at risk for injury. The Officiating Department will emphasize that the defender is responsible for avoiding landing on the quarterback when taking him to the ground."

He left his feet, and drove his body into Cousins as he took him to the ground. :shrug:
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Matthews landed next to him m.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
That's not the new rule. Fans and players can rail all they want to against it but it's pretty obvious what the NFL is getting at with the rule.

"PROTECTION OF QUARTERBACKS

The Committee reviewed hits on quarterbacks inside and outside the pocket. In some instances, the defender used all or part of his body weight to land on the quarterback immediately after the ball was thrown. These actions put the quarterback at risk for injury. The Officiating Department will emphasize that the defender is responsible for avoiding landing on the quarterback when taking him to the ground."

He left his feet, and drove his body into Cousins as he took him to the ground. :shrug:
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 I’m not arguing that the call was wrong. I’m arguing that the rule is ridiculous and virtually unavoidable. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
That's not the new rule. Fans and players can rail all they want to against it but it's pretty obvious what the NFL is getting at with the rule.

"PROTECTION OF QUARTERBACKS

The Committee reviewed hits on quarterbacks inside and outside the pocket. In some instances, the defender used all or part of his body weight to land on the quarterback immediately after the ball was thrown. These actions put the quarterback at risk for injury. The Officiating Department will emphasize that the defender is responsible for avoiding landing on the quarterback when taking him to the ground."

He left his feet, and drove his body into Cousins as he took him to the ground. :shrug:
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AKA NFL's over-reaction to the Barr hit on Rodgers last season. 

 
mr roboto said:
Andy Dufresne said:
That's not the new rule. Fans and players can rail all they want to against it but it's pretty obvious what the NFL is getting at with the rule.

"PROTECTION OF QUARTERBACKS

The Committee reviewed hits on quarterbacks inside and outside the pocket. In some instances, the defender used all or part of his body weight to land on the quarterback immediately after the ball was thrown. These actions put the quarterback at risk for injury. The Officiating Department will emphasize that the defender is responsible for avoiding landing on the quarterback when taking him to the ground."

He left his feet, and drove his body into Cousins as he took him to the ground. :shrug:
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 I’m not arguing that the call was wrong. I’m arguing that the rule is ridiculous and virtually unavoidable. 
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:goodposting: times infinity.

 
mr roboto said:
 I’m not arguing that the call was wrong. I’m arguing that the rule is ridiculous and virtually unavoidable. 
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It's not unavoidable at all. Quarterbacks just can't be hit like the rest of the players on the field. 

I understand that traditionalists don't like it. But the don't like watching Brett Hundley play quarterback either. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
It's not unavoidable at all. Quarterbacks just can't be hit like the rest of the players on the field. 

I understand that traditionalists don't like it. But the don't like watching Brett Hundley play quarterback either. 
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 Keep trying to pin me as some strawman old school football fan but that simply not my point. 

 
mr roboto said:
 Keep trying to pin me as some strawman old school football fan but that simply not my point. 
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 The second sentence wasn't really directed at you. Just a general observation.

To your point, it's avoidable and players will adapt. Or they'll continue to be penalized. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
 The second sentence wasn't really directed at you. Just a general observation.

To your point, it's avoidable and players will adapt. Or they'll continue to be penalized. 
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In my opinion the only way to avoid it is to not try to wrap up and tackle the quarterback. Which means we will see a lot of guys trying to shove them down and similar to that Super Bowl play with Eli Manning give the quarterback a second chance.

 


Mr Anonymous said:
If what Matthews did is "avoidable" as you say it (and is a penalty), rather than a blown call, then sacking the QB is now a penalty in the NFL.
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No. The operative part of the rule is "immediately after the ball was thrown". If he's being sacked, he didn't throw the ball.

mr roboto said:
In my opinion the only way to avoid it is to not try to wrap up and tackle the quarterback. Which means we will see a lot of guys trying to shove them down and similar to that Super Bowl play with Eli Manning give the quarterback a second chance.
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Quite possibly. And that's an outcome preferable to Aaron Rodgers breaking his collar bone.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
It's not unavoidable at all. Quarterbacks just can't be hit like the rest of the players on the field. 

I understand that traditionalists don't like it. But the don't like watching Brett Hundley play quarterback either. 
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You play sports? Serious question. Have you ever played tackle football. Weight, speed and momentum. 

But you keep at it quitting the rule book. 

They are over interpreting the rule. There is a clear difference in driving a guy to the ground and tackling a guy as your momentum and force is taking him to the ground as you are sacking him as he releases the football or tucks it away and you get a sack. 

Again.....I know what they are trying to look for......but they are simply over doing it X1000 here early in the season. Its ridiculous. The game is becoming touch football rapidly we it comes to QB’s. 

 
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Todem said:
You play sports? Serious question. Have you ever played tackle football. 
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The there's no reasoning with an irrational fan trying to justify a clearly blown call so he doesn't have to admit his team should have lost a game.

He's actually trying to claim that was a good call. And in doing so he's basically saying tackle football is over and we might as well put flags on everyone.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Through junior and high school. Quarterback. 
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Ok...so tell me.....a 275 pound DE is bearing down on you......you just get the ball out as he is taking you to the ground......how in gods green earth is he just going to let go as GRAVITY pulls you both to the ground as his 275 lb body wraps around you and falls to the ground. Of course his entire body weight is falling on you.

 
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Anyone have Dan Bailey's phone number?

  Asking for a lot of friends.

 
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There's nothing wrong with admitting it was a bad call and saying "we got away with one, lucky us". In fact it would earn quite a bit of respect.

 
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Mr Anonymous said:
The there's no reasoning with an irrational fan trying to justify a clearly blown call so he doesn't have to admit his team should have lost a game.

He's actually trying to claim that was a good call. And in doing so he's basically saying tackle football is over and we might as well put flags on everyone.
Click to expand...


You know who to blame for this, right?
 

Alanis Morissette, that's who.

 
Bottom line is that particular call was atrocious and not in the spirit of the rule. Not even close. I have seen pile driving hits on QB’s.....that was nothing. A clean tackle.

Utter BS and I had zero skin in the game. Just an NFL fan watching the referees decide the course of a game with a new rule that is simply OUT OF HAND.

 
mr roboto said:
I think the call was correct. The rule is the problem. 
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Matthews did everything correct. If that's a penalty, then sacking the QB is a penalty. He wasn't late. He didn't lead with his helmet. He didn't strike the QB in the head. He made a perfect form tackle with his shoulder. And he didn't throw his body weight on the QB. I wonder what sport some of you are watching if you think that was either a penalty or a rules issue. It was neither. It was simply a horribly blown call.

 
mr roboto said:
I think the call was correct. The rule is the problem. 
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I gotta disagree.....it was not a bad hit at all. He barely fell on him.....it is impossible to interpret this horrendous rule. And yes the rule is a massive problem and they will have to have serous talks about what is going on with it. Flags are flying everywhere in every game with this. You are telling guys paid millions of dollars welp.......you better learn how to the play game a different way after 20 years of muscle memory you have learned since pee-wee football. Can’t really tackle the QB. Can’t hit him low, cannot hit him high, cannot take him down to the ground and fall on him....basically don’t tackle him.

Absolute insanity.

 
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Here’s the hit - slow motion. Matthews landed on him with his body weight as the QB was throwing the ball. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/OllieConnolly/status/1041417898831605760

Heres the language @Andy Dufresne quoted...

The Committee reviewed hits on quarterbacks inside and outside the pocket. In some instances, the defender used all or part of his body weight to land on the quarterback immediately after the ball was thrown. These actions put the quarterback at risk for injury. The Officiating Department will emphasize that the defender is responsible for avoiding landing on the quarterback when taking him to the ground."
Click to expand...

IMO the rule was applied correctly. 

 
Mr Anonymous said:
The there's no reasoning with an irrational fan trying to justify a clearly blown call so he doesn't have to admit his team should have lost a game.

He's actually trying to claim that was a good call. And in doing so he's basically saying tackle football is over and we might as well put flags on everyone.
Click to expand...
It was a correct application of a questionable rule.

And what was your reaction to Barr's hit on Rodgers last year? Be honest. 

Todem said:
Ok...so tell me.....a 275 pound DE is bearing down on you......you just get the ball out as he is taking you to the ground......how in gods green earth is he just going to let go as GRAVITY pulls you both to the ground as his 275 lb body wraps around you and falls to the ground. Of course his entire body weight is falling on you.
Click to expand...
That's not what happened in the play in question though. Matthews hit him immediately following the pass, not as he was throwing - just as the rule states. Matthews really didn't have to hit him at all.

That last bit be some real good red meat, I bet.
 
Well you've successfully made me regret getting into the discussion. Btw, these guys can't stop on a dime. And the hit wasn't late. There's clearly no reason to be achieved here. With that, I'm out. Carry on.

 
Mr Anonymous said:
Well you've successfully made me regret getting into the discussion. Btw, these guys can't stop on a dime. And the hit wasn't late. There's clearly no reason to be achieved here. With that, I'm out. Carry on.
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 So you agree that the rule was applied properly or not? 

 
It's just unreasonable to expect players to tackle a QB differently than any other position. They're basically expected to knock them off balance just enough to fall over then immediately let up

 
mr roboto said:
Here’s the hit - slow motion. Matthews landed on him with his body weight as the QB was throwing the ball. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/OllieConnolly/status/1041417898831605760

Heres the language @Andy Dufresne quoted...

IMO the rule was applied correctly. 
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You and Andy are quoting a committee comment, not the rule. The rule is unchanged from last year - 12.2 Article 9.  The ref has a ton of discretion. The guidance still includes the “one step rule” (bolded below) which I think protects Matthews in this case.

(a) Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment, a pass rusher clearly should have known that the ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made; pass rushers are responsible for being aware of the position of the ball in passing situations; the Referee will use the release of the ball from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected; once a pass has been released by a passer, a rushing defender may make direct contact with the passer only up through the rusher’s first step after such release (prior to second step hitting the ground); thereafter the rusher must be making an attempt to avoid contact and must not continue to “drive through” or otherwise forcibly contact the passer; incidental or inadvertent contact by a player who is easing up or being blocked into the passer will not be considered significant.
Click to expand...

 
All that aside, I think a tie is the right result. Several instances of luck on both sides, together with some great plays and some absolute crap. Another great chapter in this rivalry. 

 
Donnybrook said:
i just hope the officiating crew is better for the next contest against the Pack. It just felt like they were just trying to make more BS calls to even out the blown calls earlier in the game. 
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Refs did everything possible to hand this game to the Vikings, but they didn't want to take it. Packers obliged with ####ty clock management Rodgers holding onto the ball too long, but the real reason the lost was the effing Swiss cheese Defense. Capers is alive and well.

####ty game and ####ty loss.

Congrats tho

 
CletiusMaximus said:
You and Andy are quoting a committee comment, not the rule. The rule is unchanged from last year - 12.2 Article 9.  The ref has a ton of discretion. The guidance still includes the “one step rule” (bolded below) which I think protects Matthews in this case.

) Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment, a pass rusher clearly should have known that the ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made; pass rushers are responsible for being aware of the position of the ball in passing situations; the Referee will use the release of the ball from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected; once a pass has been released by a passer, a rushing defender may make direct contact with the passer only up through the rusher’s first step after such release (prior to second step hitting the ground); thereafter the rusher must be making an attempt to avoid contact and must not continue to “drive through” or otherwise forcibly contact the passer; incidental or inadvertent contact by a player who is easing up or being blocked into the passer will not be considered significant.
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It actually does the opposite because Matthews took at least two,  maybe three depending on how you look at it, after initiating contact. 

 
Of course that shouldn’t be a penalty.  This is the kind of stuff your going to see going forward though with the way the are protecting the qb.  

As as someone else said, bad calls all game both ways regardless.   

 
CletiusMaximus said:
You and Andy are quoting a committee comment, not the rule. The rule is unchanged from last year - 12.2 Article 9.  The ref has a ton of discretion. The guidance still includes the “one step rule” (bolded below) which I think protects Matthews in this case.
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Well he took 2 steps. 

But... your quote further illustrates the insanity of the rule. In this case Matthews took 2 steps - but - it’s physically impossible in this case NOT TO. 

IOW I don’t see how a defender who is (a) hitting a QB and (b) having his momentum carry him to the ground and (c) running full speed is supposed to determine that (1) the QB has already thrown the ball and (2) he only has 1 more step to take before the completion of the sack will likely result in a penalty. 

 
Andy Dufresne said:
No it's not. He drove Rodgers into the ground and landed right in his gut. That one is even more obvious. 

Man are you guys being obtuse.
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If you don't take the QB to the ground, you get Eli Manning escaping your arm tackle, throwing it to David Tyee and you lose the Super Bowl.

I don't know how you expect to get a QB to the ground without force.  Jedi mind tricks? 

 
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