***Official*** Washington Redskins 2014 Thread (In-Season) (2 Viewers)

[fatness]

Another award for Haslett.

I wonder if Gruden has the authority to tell Haslett to do things differently, or if it's one of those convoluted chain-of-command fiascos like we used to have when Vinny was here. Haslett was hired long before Gruden, and retained by the front office.

And if Gruden has that authority, I wonder if he has the nads to do it. The defense too often looks like this during plays, and Haslett's responsible.

 

[fatness]

Anyone else depressed that the Dallas ####### Cowboys are building the right way, and actually winning games?

They've put together a young studly OL and they run behind it 30-40 times a game.

Now, pretty much every other part of their roster is a dumpster fire outside their receiving corps. But they got the OL right after having one of the worst, old OL units in the league 2-3 years ago.

Dallas certainly has started building the right way --- from the inside out. I don't ever remember the Redskins doing that since Snyder's owned the team.

 

[thayman]

You know how your team has been bad a long time? When you spend all your time talking about moral victories during another losing season. Getting kind of tired of it personally.

Redskins were only in that game because Seattle is undisciplined.

 

[MattFancy]

Another award for Haslett.

I wonder if Gruden has the authority to tell Haslett to do things differently, or if it's one of those convoluted chain-of-command fiascos like we used to have when Vinny was here. Haslett was hired long before Gruden, and retained by the front office.

And if Gruden has that authority, I wonder if he has the nads to do it. The defense too often looks like this during plays, and Haslett's responsible.

I was willing to give Haslett a pass last season and see what he could do this year. Through 5 games, I haven't been impressed. Sure the defense was dominant against the Jags, but it's the Jags. The last 3 games we've played against better QBs, our defense has been terrible. And as usual when we need them to make a stop late in the game, they can't do it. There's zero reason Haslett should be back next season. Bring in either Wade Phillips or Rex Ryan to coach the D.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Gosh, expectations are pretty low when we're happy that a loss could have been worse.

I think I'm checking out for the year. I'll tune in when Bob comes back, but that will be in the same sense as driving past a car accident.

HTTR

 

[MattFancy]

Gosh, expectations are pretty low when we're happy that a loss could have been worse.

I think I'm checking out for the year. I'll tune in when Bob comes back, but that will be in the same sense as driving past a car accident.

HTTR

It's tough man. The DC media doesn't help, especially with the latest from Jason Reid about the lockerroom being "jovial" after the game. The idiot fans feed into the media trolls just make things worse.

There's so much this team needs to do to get better its crazy.

I see you're an O's fan as well, so I'll ask you this. After both teams made the playoffs in 2012, would you have believed me if I told you the Orioles would be the most successful team the next 2 years? For the first time in the last 17 years, it looks like the Orioles have a brighter future than the Redskins.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Gosh, expectations are pretty low when we're happy that a loss could have been worse.

I think I'm checking out for the year. I'll tune in when Bob comes back, but that will be in the same sense as driving past a car accident.

HTTR

It's tough man. The DC media doesn't help, especially with the latest from Jason Reid about the lockerroom being "jovial" after the game. The idiot fans feed into the media trolls just make things worse.

There's so much this team needs to do to get better its crazy.

I see you're an O's fan as well, so I'll ask you this. After both teams made the playoffs in 2012, would you have believed me if I told you the Orioles would be the most successful team the next 2 years? For the first time in the last 17 years, it looks like the Orioles have a brighter future than the Redskins.

I was at the Seattle playoff game. I was screaming along with everyone around me to get Robert out of the game. When he went down for good, I think we all knew we had just lost a lot more than a playoff football game. I hate to sound doomy and gloomy, but now that he's been hurt again, I don't see a bright spot anywhere near the horizon. To be fair, it's not just him (although 3 years worth of 1st round picks is a lot tied up into one player who can't stay on the field). It's Haslett, the special teams, the sloppy play etc. I can't stand the Ravens, but they are such a better organization than the Redskins.

The Redskins remind me of the Orioles from 5 years ago. Just a terrible time that can be traced down to simple fundamentals.

Oh, and I get to defend the name on top of everything else. Yay

 

[dgreen]

Interesting that Gruden is mostly being given a pass so far. I'm fine with saying right now that we don't know what we have at HC, but usually people would be screaming that we have yet another Spurrier/Zorn type who isn't up for the job and really isn't in charge. If Haslett's a problem and Gruden does nothing about it, he's either partially at fault or simply just isn't in charge.

 

[MattFancy]

Gosh, expectations are pretty low when we're happy that a loss could have been worse.

I think I'm checking out for the year. I'll tune in when Bob comes back, but that will be in the same sense as driving past a car accident.

HTTR

It's tough man. The DC media doesn't help, especially with the latest from Jason Reid about the lockerroom being "jovial" after the game. The idiot fans feed into the media trolls just make things worse.

There's so much this team needs to do to get better its crazy.

I see you're an O's fan as well, so I'll ask you this. After both teams made the playoffs in 2012, would you have believed me if I told you the Orioles would be the most successful team the next 2 years? For the first time in the last 17 years, it looks like the Orioles have a brighter future than the Redskins.

I was at the Seattle playoff game. I was screaming along with everyone around me to get Robert out of the game. When he went down for good, I think we all knew we had just lost a lot more than a playoff football game.I hate to sound doomy and gloomy, but now that he's been hurt again, I don't see a bright spot anywhere near the horizon. To be fair, it's not just him (although 3 years worth of 1st round picks is a lot tied up into one player who can't stay on the field). It's Haslett, the special teams, the sloppy play etc. I can't stand the Ravens, but they are such a better organization than the Redskins.

The Redskins remind me of the Orioles from 5 years ago. Just a terrible time that can be traced down to simple fundamentals.

Oh, and I get to defend the name on top of everything else. Yay

I agree with all of that. I'm a big RG3 guy, but there's just nothing else around him really. Sure we have RG3, Williams, Morris, Garcon and DJax on offense and Kerrigan on defense, but that's it really. Of the younger guys, Amerson, Grant and Breeland seem like they coould be good, but that's it. Out of 53 guys on our roster, maybe 10% could be worth building around. That's pretty sad. Add to that Haslett being a horrible DC and Allen not a very good GM and we're not getting out of this mess for awhile.

 

[Ted Mullins]

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/11660/wilson-provides-blueprint-for-rg-iii

Good read from Keim about Wilson/RG3

 

[Marvelous]

On the plus side, maybe the Redskins are watching this and thinking, "Maybe we don't have to remove the zone read from the play book and maybe we don't have to make RG3 a pocket passer."

Bingo. Watching that game, I was thinking: you know, if Griffin played just the same exact game Wilson did tonight, the entire Internet would explode in commentary about how he'll never last. And yet, Wilson does it...and has won a Super Bowl doing it.

If Griffin is able to come back, and if they want to play him, they may have to let him run, I agree.

Yeah, I think Griffin could do a lot of what Wilson does - but IMO a big difference is that Wilson is way better about protecting himself. Wilson seemed to take more hits than usual tonight but it would have been just an average game for Griffin in terms of hits taken. Griffin seems to take a lot of unnecessary pounding and IMO a lot of it is on him due to lacking awareness and not sliding/getting out of bounds - I actually think the Shanahans (sorry to bring them up again) took too much heat when a lot of it was on Griffin.

A big part of the problem that has already been mentioned in here before, it seems like Gruden wants to put Griffin into his system instead of making his system fit Griffin. Guess it's moot for a few more weeks at least.

I actually think it is Griffin who wants to be a pocket passer. Griffin openly showed his disdain for the read option under Shanahan last year. This year, Gruden says he will only call plays his QB is comfortable with. A lot of this pocket passer talk points right back to Griffin.

 

[Marvelous]

You know how your team has been bad a long time? When you spend all your time talking about moral victories during another losing season. Getting kind of tired of it personally.

Same here.

Did you know that, since the loss to the Seahawks in the playoffs (the one where Griffin got hurt twice), the Redskins have the worst record in the league?

27-17 doesn't sound so bad if you ignore 2/3 of the game and if you forget that Seattle lost 2 TD's to their own penalties. Without those penalties it's a 41-17 game, which more accurately would have reflected the team performances to me.

What the hell is Perry Riley doing on defense? What the hell is Biggers doing on defense? They look utterly lost. And when Seattle spreads things out and the Redskins go to 4 down linemen, why do they all rush the passer and let Wilson get past them almost every time?

As my one granddaughter used to say when she was very young, it's shigusting.

Jon Gruden showed a Seattle running play where Russell hands off to Lynch and then takes off. Gruden says how a LB needs to stay back in case Wilson keeps the ball. On that play, Orakpo was coming in hard for the RB rather than playing Wilson. Per Cooley, Orakpo never maintained his position the whole game.

 

[dgreen]

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/11660/wilson-provides-blueprint-for-rg-iii

Good read from Keim about Wilson/RG3

“Russell kept it a lot more than he showed on film,” Redskins linebacker Brian Orakpo said.

Uh, yeah, because you kept crashing down the line and giving Russell an obvious read. IT'S AN OPTION PLAY!!!!

 

[Marvelous]

Good news is that RAK is playing so bad there will be no debate about retaining him next year. That money will be used more productively to fill other voids. As for OL, I think we have to pick one at the top of the first or else we'll pick the wrong guy. It seems the only way we choose the right guy is when its the odds on favorite, other than that...we miss on the talents evaluation for OL.

I thought franchising Orakpo was the right move. People thought he would signed a monster contract if he was a free agent. I now think they should have let him go. They would get a 2015 3rd round supplemental pick if he signed a big contract.

 

[netnalp]

You know how your team has been bad a long time? When you spend all your time talking about moral victories during another losing season. Getting kind of tired of it personally.

Same here.

Did you know that, since the loss to the Seahawks in the playoffs (the one where Griffin got hurt twice), the Redskins have the worst record in the league?

27-17 doesn't sound so bad if you ignore 2/3 of the game and if you forget that Seattle lost 2 TD's to their own penalties. Without those penalties it's a 41-17 game, which more accurately would have reflected the team performances to me.

What the hell is Perry Riley doing on defense? What the hell is Biggers doing on defense? They look utterly lost. And when Seattle spreads things out and the Redskins go to 4 down linemen, why do they all rush the passer and let Wilson get past them almost every time?

As my one granddaughter used to say when she was very young, it's shigusting.

Jon Gruden showed a Seattle running play where Russell hands off to Lynch and then takes off. Gruden says how a LB needs to stay back in case Wilson keeps the ball. On that play, Orakpo was coming in hard for the RB rather than playing Wilson. Per Cooley, Orakpo never maintained his position the whole game.

Sounds right. I know the Giants want a defender to hit the QB when he runs, even if he tosses it to the RB. Just so the opponent has to worry about getting their QB killed when he runs.

 

[fatness]

Per Cooley, Orakpo never maintained his position the whole game.

Also per Cooley, Morris was on the field for 27 plays and Helu was on the field for 28 plays.

I love Cooley's breakdowns, but he's better with information than with his ratings. And it's clear there are players he likes and players he dislikes. He dislikes Orakpo and makes it obvious. He likes Cousins and likes the entire offensive line. If you look at his grades on offensive players, you'd think we were in the top 5 teams in the league offensively. He graded the entire O-line highly for the Seattle game, for example.

Did anyone see any semblance of a running game against Seattle? Any big holes for RB's? I didn't, and I don't know what Cooley was looking at.

But............ it's still some of the best information we can get anywhere on how individual players performed. Cooley's breakdowns plus John Keim's writeups ----- I don't know how we could get much better coverage than that.

Back to your point about Orakpo never holding his position --- Cooley has said similar critical things about Riley in pass coverage. He said Riley's totally lost in zone coverage, that he runs to his spot, watches a receiver run through his zone, checks to see if he's still in the right spot, then chases the completed pass. It was funny as hell the way he described it and on Sunday, sure enough, I watched Riley on a play and there he was standing still, alone, in his zone, with a receiver running past him. The guy is just lost.

I do wonder if Orakpo was out of position the whole game, though. All preseason we were told the D-line and OLB's were going to pressure more and defend gaps less. The sheer number of times that all the rushers went straight past Wilson and Lynch while the play continued behind them tells me they're still following that strategy. That's on Haslett.

One more thing, the audio link to today's Cooley breakdown should be up on ESPN980.com tomorrow. Listen to the part about Morgan Moses if you want a total belly laugh. I could describe it but I'd rather have you listed to Cooley make fun of him.

edit: here's the link: http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=65&c=13491&f=3449803

Start at 21:50

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Ryan Clark absolutely devastating Jason Reid on Twitter. Just killing him. The whole thing is awkward but damn he's taking it to him.

 

[dgreen]

Ryan Clark absolutely devastating Jason Reid on Twitter. Just killing him. The whole thing is awkward but damn he's taking it to him.

Haha. That was a fun read. I find it weird that some media members get into battles like this. I've seen it a few other times on Twitter.

 

[fatness]

Clark has to be a bit embarrassed by the play of the team he's on this year. He was with the Steelers for years and was used to winning, and at least looking like a professional team when losing. Same with Jackson. They'd never say anything like that aloud of course. But this team, this year so far, has to be embarrassing to them.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Something I was talking about elsewhere that I thought I'd get some opinions on here too...

I've always been baffled why the teams with a general history of stability and good draft picks always get the obvious picks that every fan is calling for. Is it that hard? Reach and get your projects in the late rounds, but we ALWAYS get cute in the 2nd-4th rounds. I know, I know. Let the professionals do their thing, I'm just a fan, blah blah blah.

But every year we "reach" on scheme fits that come absolutely out of nowhere. And then watch the Ravens have Mosley fall to them, the Steelers have guys like Shazier, Tuitt, DeCastro, Pouncey fall to them, etc. Just such obvious BPA picks for those teams that have you nodding your head. And we come out of no where with a pick and then scramble to convince each other that someone else was going to take that player soon if we didn't. I'm sure it's true sometimes. I just never understand why we have to get cute and outsmart ourselves when obviously good (as far as anyone can tell up to that point--obviously anyone can bust and anyone, including our weird picks, can succeed) players are on the board.

I follow and watch the draft religiously and the part of me that thinks "a brain trust of posters from ES could draft better than this" honestly grows every year, no matter how dumb that may sound to those who haven't lost all faith in this organization.

We need to clean house in the FO, but keep Gruden. If that means keeping Allen as a figurehead, fine, but bring in a talent evaluator from OUTSIDE the organization (none of this Scott Campbell is a secret mastermind bull****) and start building this thing the right way.

 

[Ted Mullins]

On the plus side, maybe the Redskins are watching this and thinking, "Maybe we don't have to remove the zone read from the play book and maybe we don't have to make RG3 a pocket passer."

Bingo. Watching that game, I was thinking: you know, if Griffin played just the same exact game Wilson did tonight, the entire Internet would explode in commentary about how he'll never last. And yet, Wilson does it...and has won a Super Bowl doing it.

If Griffin is able to come back, and if they want to play him, they may have to let him run, I agree.

Yeah, I think Griffin could do a lot of what Wilson does - but IMO a big difference is that Wilson is way better about protecting himself. Wilson seemed to take more hits than usual tonight but it would have been just an average game for Griffin in terms of hits taken. Griffin seems to take a lot of unnecessary pounding and IMO a lot of it is on him due to lacking awareness and not sliding/getting out of bounds - I actually think the Shanahans (sorry to bring them up again) took too much heat when a lot of it was on Griffin.

A big part of the problem that has already been mentioned in here before, it seems like Gruden wants to put Griffin into his system instead of making his system fit Griffin. Guess it's moot for a few more weeks at least.

I actually think it is Griffin who wants to be a pocket passer. Griffin openly showed his disdain for the read option under Shanahan last year. This year, Gruden says he will only call plays his QB is comfortable with. A lot of this pocket passer talk points right back to Griffin.

Yeah, that's a good point, it definitely seemed like RG3 is part of the shift in play calling too. Griffin seems pretty deliberate and careful with how he presents himself, and he kinda had this passive aggressive attitude about the read option/designed runs - not sure if he's scared of getting hurt or if it was an image thing about being a "running QB"? The weird thing is it's pretty clear he still won't hesitate to take off and scramble plenty, he just seemed to be against the option. But my initial comment was about how it seemed like a lot of media hassled the Shannys for RG3 getting hurt running when RG never took even the most basic precautions to protect himself.

 

[Ted Mullins]

Something I was talking about elsewhere that I thought I'd get some opinions on here too...

I've always been baffled why the teams with a general history of stability and good draft picks always get the obvious picks that every fan is calling for. Is it that hard? Reach and get your projects in the late rounds, but we ALWAYS get cute in the 2nd-4th rounds. I know, I know. Let the professionals do their thing, I'm just a fan, blah blah blah.

But every year we "reach" on scheme fits that come absolutely out of nowhere. And then watch the Ravens have Mosley fall to them, the Steelers have guys like Shazier, Tuitt, DeCastro, Pouncey fall to them, etc. Just such obvious BPA picks for those teams that have you nodding your head. And we come out of no where with a pick and then scramble to convince each other that someone else was going to take that player soon if we didn't. I'm sure it's true sometimes. I just never understand why we have to get cute and outsmart ourselves when obviously good (as far as anyone can tell up to that point--obviously anyone can bust and anyone, including our weird picks, can succeed) players are on the board.

I follow and watch the draft religiously and the part of me that thinks "a brain trust of posters from ES could draft better than this" honestly grows every year, no matter how dumb that may sound to those who haven't lost all faith in this organization.

We need to clean house in the FO, but keep Gruden. If that means keeping Allen as a figurehead, fine, but bring in a talent evaluator from OUTSIDE the organization (none of this Scott Campbell is a secret mastermind bull****) and start building this thing the right way.

Obvious one to me here is Bitonio, although I definitely won't argue with anyone saying it's too early to write off Morgan Moses. But regardless it doesn't look great when Bitonio is doing really well immediately. I am sure there are plenty of others though.

 

[TxBuckeye]

Something I was talking about elsewhere that I thought I'd get some opinions on here too...

I've always been baffled why the teams with a general history of stability and good draft picks always get the obvious picks that every fan is calling for. Is it that hard? Reach and get your projects in the late rounds, but we ALWAYS get cute in the 2nd-4th rounds. I know, I know. Let the professionals do their thing, I'm just a fan, blah blah blah.

But every year we "reach" on scheme fits that come absolutely out of nowhere. And then watch the Ravens have Mosley fall to them, the Steelers have guys like Shazier, Tuitt, DeCastro, Pouncey fall to them, etc. Just such obvious BPA picks for those teams that have you nodding your head. And we come out of no where with a pick and then scramble to convince each other that someone else was going to take that player soon if we didn't. I'm sure it's true sometimes. I just never understand why we have to get cute and outsmart ourselves when obviously good (as far as anyone can tell up to that point--obviously anyone can bust and anyone, including our weird picks, can succeed) players are on the board.

I follow and watch the draft religiously and the part of me that thinks "a brain trust of posters from ES could draft better than this" honestly grows every year, no matter how dumb that may sound to those who haven't lost all faith in this organization.

We need to clean house in the FO, but keep Gruden. If that means keeping Allen as a figurehead, fine, but bring in a talent evaluator from OUTSIDE the organization (none of this Scott Campbell is a secret mastermind bull****) and start building this thing the right way.

This. This, this, this, this, this. If I hadn't looked at the post icon, I would have swore I posted this in my sleep last night. I feel the same way every stinkin' draft! Nothing like being all excited about the draft every year, just to end up sitting on the couch, shaking my head, asking myself "WTF just happened?"

 

[MattFancy]

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/11660/wilson-provides-blueprint-for-rg-iii

Good read from Keim about Wilson/RG3

“Russell kept it a lot more than he showed on film,” Redskins linebacker Brian Orakpo said.

Uh, yeah, because you kept crashing down the line and giving Russell an obvious read. IT'S AN OPTION PLAY!!!!

It was like the Redskins defense had NEVER seen a read option play before

 

[RGIII HTTR]

Something I was talking about elsewhere that I thought I'd get some opinions on here too...

I've always been baffled why the teams with a general history of stability and good draft picks always get the obvious picks that every fan is calling for. Is it that hard? Reach and get your projects in the late rounds, but we ALWAYS get cute in the 2nd-4th rounds. I know, I know. Let the professionals do their thing, I'm just a fan, blah blah blah.

But every year we "reach" on scheme fits that come absolutely out of nowhere. And then watch the Ravens have Mosley fall to them, the Steelers have guys like Shazier, Tuitt, DeCastro, Pouncey fall to them, etc. Just such obvious BPA picks for those teams that have you nodding your head. And we come out of no where with a pick and then scramble to convince each other that someone else was going to take that player soon if we didn't. I'm sure it's true sometimes. I just never understand why we have to get cute and outsmart ourselves when obviously good (as far as anyone can tell up to that point--obviously anyone can bust and anyone, including our weird picks, can succeed) players are on the board.

I follow and watch the draft religiously and the part of me that thinks "a brain trust of posters from ES could draft better than this" honestly grows every year, no matter how dumb that may sound to those who haven't lost all faith in this organization.

We need to clean house in the FO, but keep Gruden. If that means keeping Allen as a figurehead, fine, but bring in a talent evaluator from OUTSIDE the organization (none of this Scott Campbell is a secret mastermind bull****) and start building this thing the right way.

This is why I think we have to draft an OL with first pick. One of the only ways we hit on a player, especially OL, is when it's hands down the top player at the position. We seem to whiff on a regular basis. All the said, changing coaching staffs and philosophy of how or what our team should be doesn't help. The problem is we don't hire to maintain the core of what we have, we hire and wholesale changes need to occur...that sets us back. Add that we haven't drafted in 1st round for several years plus the cap penalties and we have a recipe for further disaster.

We are what we are...and that is BAD. We have a few great or sexy players, but overall a lot of holes in the armor and as soon as we fill those, a new scheme is instituted and creates more/other holes. Hail to the Redskins, hail mediocrity!!!

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Something I was talking about elsewhere that I thought I'd get some opinions on here too...

I've always been baffled why the teams with a general history of stability and good draft picks always get the obvious picks that every fan is calling for. Is it that hard? Reach and get your projects in the late rounds, but we ALWAYS get cute in the 2nd-4th rounds. I know, I know. Let the professionals do their thing, I'm just a fan, blah blah blah.

But every year we "reach" on scheme fits that come absolutely out of nowhere. And then watch the Ravens have Mosley fall to them, the Steelers have guys like Shazier, Tuitt, DeCastro, Pouncey fall to them, etc. Just such obvious BPA picks for those teams that have you nodding your head. And we come out of no where with a pick and then scramble to convince each other that someone else was going to take that player soon if we didn't. I'm sure it's true sometimes. I just never understand why we have to get cute and outsmart ourselves when obviously good (as far as anyone can tell up to that point--obviously anyone can bust and anyone, including our weird picks, can succeed) players are on the board.

I follow and watch the draft religiously and the part of me that thinks "a brain trust of posters from ES could draft better than this" honestly grows every year, no matter how dumb that may sound to those who haven't lost all faith in this organization.

We need to clean house in the FO, but keep Gruden. If that means keeping Allen as a figurehead, fine, but bring in a talent evaluator from OUTSIDE the organization (none of this Scott Campbell is a secret mastermind bull****) and start building this thing the right way.

This is why I think we have to draft an OL with first pick. One of the only ways we hit on a player, especially OL, is when it's hands down the top player at the position. We seem to whiff on a regular basis. All the said, changing coaching staffs and philosophy of how or what our team should be doesn't help. The problem is we don't hire to maintain the core of what we have, we hire and wholesale changes need to occur...that sets us back. Add that we haven't drafted in 1st round for several years plus the cap penalties and we have a recipe for further disaster.

We are what we are...and that is BAD. We have a few great or sexy players, but overall a lot of holes in the armor and as soon as we fill those, a new scheme is instituted and creates more/other holes. Hail to the Redskins, hail mediocrity!!!

Yeah, that's why I think no matter what happens (within reason) we have to keep Gruden through his entire contract. But we need a true proven talent evaluator above him in the hierarchy, someone who trancends coaching regimes and has a team building plan that involves him hiring coaches that fit his vision, so the talent on the roster doesn't have to be turned over every time a new staff comes in. Like the Steelers.

 

[MattFancy]

Something I was talking about elsewhere that I thought I'd get some opinions on here too...

I've always been baffled why the teams with a general history of stability and good draft picks always get the obvious picks that every fan is calling for. Is it that hard? Reach and get your projects in the late rounds, but we ALWAYS get cute in the 2nd-4th rounds. I know, I know. Let the professionals do their thing, I'm just a fan, blah blah blah.

But every year we "reach" on scheme fits that come absolutely out of nowhere. And then watch the Ravens have Mosley fall to them, the Steelers have guys like Shazier, Tuitt, DeCastro, Pouncey fall to them, etc. Just such obvious BPA picks for those teams that have you nodding your head. And we come out of no where with a pick and then scramble to convince each other that someone else was going to take that player soon if we didn't. I'm sure it's true sometimes. I just never understand why we have to get cute and outsmart ourselves when obviously good (as far as anyone can tell up to that point--obviously anyone can bust and anyone, including our weird picks, can succeed) players are on the board.

I follow and watch the draft religiously and the part of me that thinks "a brain trust of posters from ES could draft better than this" honestly grows every year, no matter how dumb that may sound to those who haven't lost all faith in this organization.

We need to clean house in the FO, but keep Gruden. If that means keeping Allen as a figurehead, fine, but bring in a talent evaluator from OUTSIDE the organization (none of this Scott Campbell is a secret mastermind bull****) and start building this thing the right way.

This is why I think we have to draft an OL with first pick. One of the only ways we hit on a player, especially OL, is when it's hands down the top player at the position. We seem to whiff on a regular basis. All the said, changing coaching staffs and philosophy of how or what our team should be doesn't help. The problem is we don't hire to maintain the core of what we have, we hire and wholesale changes need to occur...that sets us back. Add that we haven't drafted in 1st round for several years plus the cap penalties and we have a recipe for further disaster.

We are what we are...and that is BAD. We have a few great or sexy players, but overall a lot of holes in the armor and as soon as we fill those, a new scheme is instituted and creates more/other holes. Hail to the Redskins, hail mediocrity!!!

Yeah, that's why I think no matter what happens (within reason) we have to keep Gruden through his entire contract. But we need a true proven talent evaluator above him in the hierarchy, someone who trancends coaching regimes and has a team building plan that involves him hiring coaches that fit his vision, so the talent on the roster doesn't have to be turned over every time a new staff comes in. Like the Steelers.

Agreed. I like Gruden and think he has some potential here if we can get him some talent to work with. Bruce Allen does a good job with all the rah-rah stuff and getting the old Redskins back in the fold. But as far as talent evaluation, what has he brought here? We need a real GM. Not a GM like Allen who also is in charge of replays for some reason.

 

[Marvelous]

On the plus side, maybe the Redskins are watching this and thinking, "Maybe we don't have to remove the zone read from the play book and maybe we don't have to make RG3 a pocket passer."

Bingo. Watching that game, I was thinking: you know, if Griffin played just the same exact game Wilson did tonight, the entire Internet would explode in commentary about how he'll never last. And yet, Wilson does it...and has won a Super Bowl doing it.

If Griffin is able to come back, and if they want to play him, they may have to let him run, I agree.

Yeah, I think Griffin could do a lot of what Wilson does - but IMO a big difference is that Wilson is way better about protecting himself. Wilson seemed to take more hits than usual tonight but it would have been just an average game for Griffin in terms of hits taken. Griffin seems to take a lot of unnecessary pounding and IMO a lot of it is on him due to lacking awareness and not sliding/getting out of bounds - I actually think the Shanahans (sorry to bring them up again) took too much heat when a lot of it was on Griffin.

A big part of the problem that has already been mentioned in here before, it seems like Gruden wants to put Griffin into his system instead of making his system fit Griffin. Guess it's moot for a few more weeks at least.

I actually think it is Griffin who wants to be a pocket passer. Griffin openly showed his disdain for the read option under Shanahan last year. This year, Gruden says he will only call plays his QB is comfortable with. A lot of this pocket passer talk points right back to Griffin.

Yeah, that's a good point, it definitely seemed like RG3 is part of the shift in play calling too. Griffin seems pretty deliberate and careful with how he presents himself, and he kinda had this passive aggressive attitude about the read option/designed runs - not sure if he's scared of getting hurt or if it was an image thing about being a "running QB"? The weird thing is it's pretty clear he still won't hesitate to take off and scramble plenty, he just seemed to be against the option. But my initial comment was about how it seemed like a lot of media hassled the Shannys for RG3 getting hurt running when RG never took even the most basic precautions to protect himself.

I was impressed with how Seattle ran the read option and Wilson took very few hits. I think he only got hit on one read option keeper play.

Griffin's biggest weakness at this point in time is pocket presence. Cooley mentioned there have been numerous times where Griffin could step to his left to buy more time in the pocket. But he takes off to the right every time.

Cooley has also criticized Griffin for scrambling backwards way too much rather than stepping up in the pocket. This puts the OL in a bad position since they don't know where he is. And sacks become 10 and 15 yard losses instead of 3 year losses. This aspect is definitely much better with Cousins at QB.

 

[dgreen]

Cooley has also criticized Griffin for scrambling backwards way too much rather than stepping up in the pocket. This puts the OL in a bad position since they don't know where he is. And sacks become 10 and 15 yard losses instead of 3 year losses. This aspect is definitely much better with Cousins at QB.

Seems like this could work both ways. While Griffin may create bigger losses by not stepping up in the pocket, his abilities and style also probably allow him to turn a 7-yard sack into only a 1-yard sack by avoiding the rush (and then running out of bounds for a loss rather than just throwing it away ). And, of course we know that he also has turned potential sacks into positive gains.

The league average since 2012 is about 6.5 yards per sack. Griffin's career average is 7.3 and Cousins' is 7.8. Cousins has only been sacked 13 times, though, so not a very big sample size. I'd guess Griffin has a much larger variance to his losses.

 

[Ted Mullins]

I was impressed with how Seattle ran the read option and Wilson took very few hits. I think he only got hit on one read option keeper play.

Yeah, seems like Wilson and Kaep run for 500+ yards a year and make the defense account for them as runners, but take less of a beating in a season than Griffin does in a game or two. Looks like even Alex Smith ran for 432 yards last year, and Luck ran for 377. It can be done without the QB getting killed and appears to be a great added dimension to an offense. I think Vick being the preeminent running QB for a long time created the perception that all running QBs will only suit up for 12 games a year at most, but a big part of that is him being as bad as Griffin at protecting himself.

 

[fatness]

We need to clean house in the FO, but keep Gruden. If that means keeping Allen as a figurehead, fine, but bring in a talent evaluator from OUTSIDE the organization (none of this Scott Campbell is a secret mastermind bull****) and start building this thing the right way.

Preach on, brother.

 

[fatness]

Cooley has also criticized Griffin for scrambling backwards way too much rather than stepping up in the pocket. This puts the OL in a bad position since they don't know where he is. And sacks become 10 and 15 yard losses instead of 3 year losses. This aspect is definitely much better with Cousins at QB.

I agree Griffin needs to do a better job protecting himself, and recognizing a play developing while he's on the move.

But at the same time I have to say that over time Cooley has overcriticized Griffin, and has overpraised Cousins, because Cousins is his friend.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2013/10/16/kirk-cousins-and-chris-cooley-fry-potatoes/

 

[fatness]

Facing a third string quarterback, there is theoretically a decent chance of winning this next game.

 

[fatness]

We are what we are...and that is BAD. We have a few great or sexy players, but overall a lot of holes in the armor and as soon as we fill those, a new scheme is instituted and creates more/other holes. Hail to the Redskins, hail mediocrity!!!

Unfortunately the team hasn't been treading water. They're now treading water and sinking slowly.

Didn't Allen leave Tampa Bay sorta bare of talent?

 

[MikeApf]

Facing a third string quarterback, there is theoretically a decent chance of winning this next game.

The key word here is "theoretically."

 

[thekidd2009]

Facing a third string quarterback, there is theoretically a decent chance of winning this next game.

I'm thinking of playing the redskins D against the third stringer....

 

[dgreen]

Facing a third string quarterback, there is theoretically a decent chance of winning this next game.

The key word here is "theoretically."

Arizona's D is tough. Football Outsiders has them 10th overall. They are 4th against the run, but 18th against the pass. If Cousins can get decent protection like he did against Seattle then maybe they can hit some more long ones to Jackson. But, they really need to have some success running, which is going to be hard against the Cardinals.

Surprisingly, FO has our D ranked 18th. 12th against the run and 25th against the pass. So, hopefully a 3rd string QB on a lower ranked offense can lead to a decent defensive showing.

It's never easy to win on the road (unless you're a road team coming to Fed Ex for a prime time game), but this is a "winnable" situation. That's about as positive as we get these days.

What's the spread?

 

[MikeApf]

Facing a third string quarterback, there is theoretically a decent chance of winning this next game.

The key word here is "theoretically."

Arizona's D is tough. Football Outsiders has them 10th overall. They are 4th against the run, but 18th against the pass. If Cousins can get decent protection like he did against Seattle then maybe they can hit some more long ones to Jackson. But, they really need to have some success running, which is going to be hard against the Cardinals.

Surprisingly, FO has our D ranked 18th. 12th against the run and 25th against the pass. So, hopefully a 3rd string QB on a lower ranked offense can lead to a decent defensive showing.

It's never easy to win on the road (unless you're a road team coming to Fed Ex for a prime time game), but this is a "winnable" situation. That's about as positive as we get these days.

What's the spread?

Arizona -4 per the Bleacher Report

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2224794-week-6-nfl-picks-vegas-odds-spread-advice-and-predictions

I do agree we have a chance, but also am tempering expectations based on what I know of Arizona's defense. Vs. Houston, we were also facing an opponent with questionable offensive firepower and a good defense. We had a chance there as well but turnovers did us in. And of course Fitz is more experienced that Thomas.

In addition to a running game, playing mistake free football will be key.

I'm not entirely convinced either that Palmer and Stanton won't play. Stanton still has time to pass the concussion test and Palmer is getting closer. I agree it's a definite possibility that we face the third string QB, but at the same time, I have seen too many games where a down and out opponent "got healthy" against us (remember the Lions breaking that losing streak.)

So I am optimistic enough to watch, but very guardedly so...

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I disagree that Allen hasn't brought in some talented players. I'd argue that they are just at the wrong positions. He strengthened the wide receiver corps but neglected the offensive line. He bolstered the defensive line but has no cornerback depth.

A little less WR and a little more Oline

A little less DL and a little more DB

 

[TxBuckeye]

Redskins D will make him look like the second coming of Joe Montana.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

Facing a third string quarterback, there is theoretically a decent chance of winning this next game.

I'm thinking of playing the redskins D against the third stringer....

Good luck with that!

 

[RGIII HTTR]

Facing a third string quarterback, there is theoretically a decent chance of winning this next game.

Two games ago, Kirk was looking like a 3rd stringer...so depending which Kirk shows up, we could also be playing with a 3rd stringer.

 

[MikeApf]

Facing a third string quarterback, there is theoretically a decent chance of winning this next game.

Two games ago, Kirk was looking like a 3rd stringer...so depending which Kirk shows up, we could also be playing with a 3rd stringer.

FWiW, Drew Stanton has been cleared to play. And Palmer has not been ruled out. From Rotoworld:

Drew Stanton (concussion) has been fully cleared to play in Sunday's game against the Redskins.
One piece of the Cardinals' quarterback puzzle for Sunday is now solved, but we still have a ways to go. Carson Palmer (shoulder) remains a true game-time call for a game that doesn't kick until 4:25pm ET Sunday. Logan Thomas took the majority of first-team reps at practice this week. Oct 10 - 10:14 PM
Source: Mike Jurecki on Twitter

 

[fatness]

I don't think we'll know what QB we face until game time. I don't think Palmer's injury will allow him to play a whole game and I doubt he plays at all. As for Stanton, he may be cleared now but there is concussion testing that continues right up to game time and players can have setbacks. That happened to Reed a lot last year.

The Skins don't have a real good record against unheard-of backup QB's but hey, theoretically there's a chance.

Cooley said 2 Cardinal linemen in particular can be beaten on running plays. I don't know how long it'll take for Gruden to realize this team has to run the ball a lot more than they have been in order to be successful. When you have Helu on the field for more plays than Morris you're ####### up as a head coach, and that was what happened last week. How many defeats will it take to beat this "passing offense" need out of Gruden? It took 5 losses for Joe Gibbs.

 

[TxBuckeye]

Cooley said 2 Cardinal linemen in particular can be beaten on running plays. I don't know how long it'll take for Gruden to realize this team has to run the ball a lot more than they have been in order to be successful. When you have Helu on the field for more plays than Morris you're ####### up as a head coach, and that was what happened last week. How many defeats will it take to beat this "passing offense" need out of Gruden? It took 5 losses for Joe Gibbs.

I'd like to agree with you, but I thought Morris had no chance against Seattle. They tried to feed him the ball a bit early, but it was resulting in second and 10+ to go. They simply couldn't block them (Paul was getting devestated) and Morris was getting dropped behind the line. When your first three carries net -6 yards, that's just not going to get it done. So in the case of Seattle, all feeding Morris was going to do was put that horribly outmatched Redskins D right back on the field.

 

[fatness]

Cooley said 2 Cardinal linemen in particular can be beaten on running plays. I don't know how long it'll take for Gruden to realize this team has to run the ball a lot more than they have been in order to be successful. When you have Helu on the field for more plays than Morris you're ####### up as a head coach, and that was what happened last week. How many defeats will it take to beat this "passing offense" need out of Gruden? It took 5 losses for Joe Gibbs.

I'd like to agree with you, but I thought Morris had no chance against Seattle. They tried to feed him the ball a bit early, but it was resulting in second and 10+ to go. They simply couldn't block them (Paul was getting devestated) and Morris was getting dropped behind the line. When your first three carries net -6 yards, that's just not going to get it done. So in the case of Seattle, all feeding Morris was going to do was put that horribly outmatched Redskins D right back on the field.

I saw what you described and you're right about the lack of success. But running games take time to develop in some games, and they develop not by running the same run plays over and over but by trying different running plays, different blocking schemes, etc. Gruden just gave up on the run way too early.

 

[fatness]

From PFT

2. How will Arizona replace Calais Campbell?

Rookie Kareem Martin is expected to be the primary replacement. The third-round pick from North Carolina had a rough time last week after Campbell suffered a sprained MCL following a chop block from Broncos tight end Julius Thomas, with six mental errors on running plays.

3. Does Washington have a leadership problem?

Coach Jay Gruden apparently believes his team does. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have made safety Ryan Clark a captain this week. It was Clark who spoke up in defense of teammates who were perceived to be a little too happy (or perhaps not unhappy enough) after losing to the Seahawks on Monday night. Gruden surely hopes Clark will be speaking up more in the locker room, especially when it comes to the importance of avoiding situations that can create unwanted perceptions.

 

[fatness]

Yesterday Stanton was cleared to play at QB. Today Palmer's expecting to start. I have no idea who we'll see at QB for the Cardinals, but Ellington will probably have a career day.

 

[dgreen]

From PFT

3. Does Washington have a leadership problem?

Coach Jay Gruden apparently believes his team does. Otherwise, he wouldnt have made safety Ryan Clark a captain this week. It was Clark who spoke up in defense of teammates who were perceived to be a little too happy (or perhaps not unhappy enough) after losing to the Seahawks on Monday night. Gruden surely hopes Clark will be speaking up more in the locker room, especially when it comes to the importance of avoiding situations that can create unwanted perceptions.

Can someone explain this logic to me? How does this show a leadership problem?

 

[TxBuckeye]

The coach felt the need to name a new captain after the previous captain's were laughing and yucking it up in the locker room after a loss? Seems pretty clear cut unless I am missing something.