***Official*** Washington Redskins 2014 Thread (In-Season) (2 Viewers)

[thayman]

Alex Parker ‏@ParkerSports 4m4 minutes ago

The #redskins say Colt McCoy will go straight from stadium to hospital to have exam - Gruden said 'sprained neck' during his presser.

You don't think Snyder is telling his best friend Dr Beanie something like "you know those neck injuries can be really serious. maybe it is good for him if isn't available for the rest of the season"

Do you honestly think it matters who the QB is at this point?

For Snyder and probably Allen it does

Probably, how about you? Does anyone honestly think it matters who the QB is?

 

[fatness]

Alex Parker ‏@ParkerSports 4m4 minutes agoThe #redskins say Colt McCoy will go straight from stadium to hospital to have exam - Gruden said 'sprained neck' during his presser.

You don't think Snyder is telling his best friend Dr Beanie something like "you know those neck injuries can be really serious. maybe it is good for him if isn't available for the rest of the season"

That's as likely as Gruden telling McCoy "your neck is hurt so you're going to get checked so you don't have to do the press conference".

 

[fatness]

203 yards of offense today.

McCoy with 1 fumble (which the Redskins recovered) and 2 INT's

They're losing with each one of their 3 QB's. All 3 QB's get worse the more they play. The offense gets worse the longer the season goes on.

Thinking the quarterbacking is the problem is like thinking the decor sank the Titanic.

 

[fatness]

Chris Russell is busy defending Haslett.

He's also getting on Griffin for getting sacked on his second pass attempt. No mention from Russell about McCoy being sacked 6 times.

 

[dgreen]

ESPN 980 ‏@ESPNRadio980

Jay Gruden says if he needs to motivate his team rest of the way "we need new pro football players."

Remember when Jeff George said, "That whole leadership thing, it's overrated."

 

[fatness]

Scott G ‏@20gdawg 3m3 minutes ago @NFLInjuryNws #Redskins injury report following this week...Fans are listed as day to day with sickness to the stomach...]

 

[RGIII HTTR]

Truly pathetic!!!! Unfortunately we already knew that. Now on to more important things...

 

[fatness]

Hail2TheOffseason @Rus####sSkuds · 3h 3 hours ago

Jay Gruden says he needs to find out who can lead the team to victories. DUH!!! ITS YOU!!!!

Sean Bishop @Sean_Bishop · 5h 5 hours ago

Just hit me. Today's offense besides Compton and McCoy is what this year's offense was supposed to be before DJax trade. Odd

 

[fatness]

Jim Haslett's son criticizes London Fletcher on twitter and gets to hear fan opinions.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

i now officially hate the rams

Rams use players acquired in RG3 trade as captains, just to torment Washington

 

[fatness]

Dianna Marie Russini @NBCdianna · 2h 2 hours ago

Gruden said if Colt McCoy is healthy, he's the starter next Sunday.

If we're all looking for improvement, it'll be there the next time the Redskins offense scores.

 

[fatness]

More about Haslett from London Fletcher

“For years he has always made excuses,” Fletcher said. “One minute it was ‘We’re changing from the 3-4 and we don’t have the right personnel. Next minute it is salary cap. Next minute it is Mike Shanahan. Next minute it is injuries. Mike Shanahan recognized early that this guy does not know what he is doing. And he tried to help him out. And what does Jim Haslett do? He threw [shanahan] under the bus just like he throws everybody under the bus, players and coaches included.

“He is a guy that does not know what he is doing. And the Washington Redskins — and Jay Gruden in particular — better watch his back and get Jim Haslett out of the door. Jay Gruden better get him out the door because he’s probably back stabbing Jay Gruden like he did everybody else — like he did to Scott Linehan in St. Louis and like he did to Mike Shanahan in Washington.”

 

[fatness]

Gruden's press conference. Looks lost at the first question, and from then on.

 

[GoBirds]

i now officially hate the rams

Rams use players acquired in RG3 trade as captains, just to torment Washington

Wow that is good stuff.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Well played, Fisher. Well played.

 

[Zdravko]

Gruden's press conference. Looks lost at the first question, and from then on.

What. A. Train. Wreck.

 

[Hang 10]

Chris Russell is busy defending Haslett.

He's also getting on Griffin for getting sacked on his second pass attempt. No mention from Russell about McCoy being sacked 6 times.

Griffin held ball for like 1 second before the entire pocket collapsed.

 

[fatness]

This is pretty well-written. http://hail22.com/2014/12/08/redskins-shut-rams-24-0-10-thoughts-observations/

2. It starts from the top. Bruce Allen was given the GM title despite having little experience in the talent evaluation department. When he took the reigns from Mike Shanahan, Allen shifted blame of the last four years onto anyone he could. But now, he’s hired his own guy in Jay Gruden and has all the power in the organisation. He has to be accountable for this continued failure. He has to be accountable for putting together a roster with little depth, ignoring the obvious needs in the secondary and on the offensive line. He has to recognise that he’s just as much to blame as anyone, and not try to point fingers in other directions as he did last season. Many fans feel like Allen should be moved back to a similar role in the front office that he had with Shanahan, where he has no say in football decisions. But I’d argue the team needs a complete change of direction, and that starts with Allen.

3. As head coach, Jay Gruden has to be the next man on the list. The team has been ill-disciplined and is constantly shooting themselves in the foot. An offense that was built on the zone-running scheme installed by Shanahan is now failing to manage a yard per carry. Under Shanahan, Alfred Morris looked like the next great zone-running back. Against the Rams, he had six yards on eight carries. For weeks, DeSean Jackson was getting open deep four or five times a game, but the Redskins quarterbacks either missed him or didn’t have enough time to get a throw away. Last year, Pierre Garcon broke Art Monk’s Redskins record for receptions in a season. This year, there have been games where you forget he’s on the field. As an offensive-minded head coach, Gruden had a team that was suppose to rely on its offense to score and give its defense a chance to play with a lead. But after 13 games and multiple quarterback changes, the offense lacks any form of identity. It’s uncommon for head coaches to be fired after one season in charge, but outside of being a likeable character in the media, he’s done nothing to suggest to me he deserves to be the head coach here next year.

4. Jim Haslett’s days as defensive coordinator have to be numbered. It’s his fifth year in charge of the defense, and they don’t look any better than when they started. Haslett takes a lot of unfair criticism, as the defensive failures haven’t all been on him. The past few weeks, players have been blowing the most simple of coverages, there’s not much any coach can do about that. Washington have also tended to spend most of their resources on the offensive side of the ball, with an offensive coach in charge since Haslett has been here. But Haslett hasn’t ever managed to produce a consistently above-average defense in all his years as a coach in the NFL. Under him, the Redskins have been consistently one of the worst.

 

[Archer]

If today's shutout helps us get a new GM and Coach, I'm all for it. As painful and pathetic as it was to watch.

 

[massraider]

More about Haslett from London Fletcher

“For years he has always made excuses,” Fletcher said. “One minute it was ‘We’re changing from the 3-4 and we don’t have the right personnel. Next minute it is salary cap. Next minute it is Mike Shanahan. Next minute it is injuries. Mike Shanahan recognized early that this guy does not know what he is doing. And he tried to help him out. And what does Jim Haslett do? He threw [shanahan] under the bus just like he throws everybody under the bus, players and coaches included.

“He is a guy that does not know what he is doing. And the Washington Redskins — and Jay Gruden in particular — better watch his back and get Jim Haslett out of the door. Jay Gruden better get him out the door because he’s probably back stabbing Jay Gruden like he did everybody else — like he did to Scott Linehan in St. Louis and like he did to Mike Shanahan in Washington.”

Whoa.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

In 5 years with the Redksins, Haslett's defensive rankings...Not really good. He must not know anything about pass defense. You would think in about 15 years of coaching he'd just luck out and have 1 team finish in the top 10 in net yards passing. Same with Running yards allowed. Almost never top 15 in the rankings. In fact, his whole resume makes me wonder how he is in the NFL.

In 3 years in PIT he turned them from the #1 D to the #29 D

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/HaslJi0.htm

 

[fatness]

Gruden's getting pretty desperate to be right about something before the season's over.

Redskins coach Jay Gruden said after the game that he will watch the tape to determine who will start Sunday at the New York Giants. The Redskins' 24-0 loss to the St. Louis Rams represented their first shutout at home since Week 16 of the 2009 season.

“We have to see what happened as far as the production is concerned,” Gruden said. “One of the reasons we took out Robert in the first place is lack of production on offense. I’ve got to look at the film and try to make a judgment on the quarterback situation. All we’re trying to do ... We’re searching for answers in the building. We’re trying to find out who can lead us to victories and who can get this offense on a roll. That obviously is still to be determined.”

Don’t assume, though, that it will be Griffin to replace McCoy if he can’t play. A team source said Kirk Cousins would get consideration as well.

Meanwhile, Gruden said he did not want to insert Griffin in the second half because the game was getting out of hand.

John Keim.

And if you're wondering what "team source" it was

John Keim @john_keim · 2h 2 hours ago

For what it's worth, if McCoy can't start and if it's up to the coaches, then Kirk Cousins would get consideration to start

 

[fatness]

In 5 years with the Redksins, Haslett's defensive rankings...Not really good. He must not know anything about pass defense. You would think in about 15 years of coaching he'd just luck out and have 1 team finish in the top 10 in net yards passing. Same with Running yards allowed. Almost never top 15 in the rankings. In fact, his whole resume makes me wonder how he is in the NFL.

In 3 years in PIT he turned them from the #1 D to the #29 D

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/HaslJi0.htm

Along those lines: https://twitter.com/Tom_Schad/status/541790589705261056

 

[fatness]

And, considering the uncertain nature of McCoy’s injury — Gruden said he had a sprained neck, but one person said the quarterback was exhibiting symptoms consistent with a pinched nerve — it’s entirely likely the Redskins could give the quarterback carousel one more spin before they wrap up the season with three games against divisional opponents.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/7/colt-mccoy-ineffective-injured-redskins-qb-situati/

 

[fatness]

No, let’s not devalue rock bottom, not when the calendar has turned to December. That means two things: Santa Claus is coming to town and this team, if its playoff hopes are dead, will roll over, paws up.

“You could kind of see in their eyes they kind of packed it in,” said Rams defensive back Rodney McLeod, who intercepted McCoy in the first quarter.

“Last year was very similar when you watch the tape. As the season went on, things just got worse and worse,” said Gruden, whose offense was as awful Sunday, shut out for the first time since 2011, as his defense was atrocious the previous Sunday, allowing 49 points in Indianapolis.

“Obviously, we are going down,” added Gruden, making a hand gesture that was unsettlingly like a sinking submarine.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/thomas-boswell-at-treachery-slime-and-slander-stadium-the-depths-get-ever-deeper/2014/12/07/3089fcbc-7e5f-11e4-81fd-8c4814dfa9d7_story.html

 

[fatness]

There’s no way to sugarcoat this: For weeks, Washington’s coaching staff often has appeared overmatched.On Sunday, Rams receivers repeatedly ran uncovered. Same story from start to finish in last week’s 22-point loss to the Indianapolis Colts.

St. Louis exploited Washington’s glaring weaknesses in pass protection, sacking starter Colt McCoy, who was replaced by Griffin late after spraining his neck, six times and Griffin once. Gruden had no answers to energize an offense that produced only 138 yards through three quarters and did not have a snap inside the Rams’ 20-yard line during the game. Again, special teams were a disaster.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/the-redskins-are-bad-from-top-to-bottom/2014/12/07/70b6ca36-7e5f-11e4-81fd-8c4814dfa9d7_story.html

 

[fatness]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/as-another-season-goes-down-the-drain-redskins-are-again-disintegrating-publicly/2014/12/07/10eba61c-7c1b-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html?hpid=z2

Both Snyder and team President Bruce Allen declined to comment Sunday on Washington Post reports that Gruden has given up on Griffin, whom he benched last month for poor performance, and that Gruden could be the next Redskins employee out of a job if Snyder insists on giving the quarterback another chance.

“I’m never going to lose confidence in what I am doing and what we are doing as a staff to get this team back on track,” he said afterward. “You’ve got to stick with the plan.”

But in the locker room, few seemed to have a clear sense of the plan. The talk was more about protecting their own backs and tuning out the rest.

 

[fatness]

The members of the Rams’ defense said although encouraged by their success against the run, they felt like the Redskins abandoned the run prematurely, and thus played right into St. Louis’s plans.

“When you’re able to stop the run, it allows our D-line to go to work,” linebacker James Laurinitis said. “I think early in the season, teams would just run the football and throwing quick game. So when that happens, I don’t care how freakish Robert [Quinn] is and those guys or Aaron Donald and the rest of the guys, you’ve got to be able to stop the run. I was pretty surprised they abandoned it as early as they did.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2014/12/07/rams-defense-deals-alfred-morris-a-career-worst-day/

 

[Marvelous]

Chris Russell is busy defending Haslett.

He's also getting on Griffin for getting sacked on his second pass attempt. No mention from Russell about McCoy being sacked 6 times.

I am guessing those 6 sacks were also Griffin's fault.

 

[fatness]

fan reactions at the game

 

[Milkman]

Make it stop! Ahhhhhhhh!

 

[MattFancy]

Honestly, where does this team go from here? For probably the first time I can remember as a Redskins fan, this franchise honestly seems hopeless. I'm all for continuity for this franchise because we need it badly, but Gruden isn't the answer and it's painfully obvious.

Gruden was supposed to come here and "fix" RG3. Can anyone deny that RG3 has actually gotten worse from last season? It was leaked out that Kirk was the QB Gruden really wanted here. Can anyone say that Kirk has gotten any better under Gruden? Well Colt was the guy Gruden brought in this offseason. Is anyone impressed with Colt's play? Has the offense really looked any better for more than a game or so under any of these QBs? How many 1st year head coaches go through 3 QBs in their 1st season? Sure he had to go to Kirk early because of Griffin's injury, but he's played musical chairs with the QBs all season and the offense honestly hasn't gotten any better.

Then you have the defense. They've had their moments, but overall, the defense isn't any better than the day Haslett became the DC. The only players worth a damn on defense are Kerrigan, Robinson and maybe Breeland. Not a whole lot else to feel good about. I could understand if it was the same guy getting beat in coverage every week, but every game exposes someone else in our secondary. It's embarrassing.

Special Teams had been okay most of the season, but was back to the good 'ol Redskins ST we know this week. We made Tavon look like Devin Hester. Just an awful day on punt coverage. Are they better than last season? Sure. But it wasn't going to take much for that to happen for as bad as they were last year.

Overall, where does this team go from here? You honesly only have a handful of players to build around. Kerrigan, Robinson, Williams, and Breeland. That's really sad and to me is on Allen. As the GM, you should be able to acquire talent through the draft and FA. We really don't have much to show from recent drafts. So what does Snyder do? If he fires Gruden after a season, it looks like he's the same old Snyder. If he lets Gruden stay, is there any guarantee this team gets any better next year with Gruden?

 

[MattFancy]

i now officially hate the rams

Rams use players acquired in RG3 trade as captains, just to torment Washington

Honestly, everyone is on the Rams nuts about this trade. What have they done with all those players? They haven't had a winning season or playoff appearance with them. Pead and Stacy don't even see the field anymore. Is Pead even still on the team? And there's a few others I haven't even heard of. Sure they acquired a bunch of players in that deal, but it's not like any of them have helped the team do anything. This isn't the Herschel Walker deal where Dallas ended up with some superstars.

 

[MikeApf]

Honestly, where does this team go from here? For probably the first time I can remember as a Redskins fan, this franchise honestly seems hopeless. I'm all for continuity for this franchise because we need it badly, but Gruden isn't the answer and it's painfully obvious. Gruden was supposed to come here and "fix" RG3. Can anyone deny that RG3 has actually gotten worse from last season? It was leaked out that Kirk was the QB Gruden really wanted here. Can anyone say that Kirk has gotten any better under Gruden? Well Colt was the guy Gruden brought in this offseason. Is anyone impressed with Colt's play? Has the offense really looked any better for more than a game or so under any of these QBs? How many 1st year head coaches go through 3 QBs in their 1st season? Sure he had to go to Kirk early because of Griffin's injury, but he's played musical chairs with the QBs all season and the offense honestly hasn't gotten any better. Then you have the defense. They've had their moments, but overall, the defense isn't any better than the day Haslett became the DC. The only players worth a damn on defense are Kerrigan, Robinson and maybe Breeland. Not a whole lot else to feel good about. I could understand if it was the same guy getting beat in coverage every week, but every game exposes someone else in our secondary. It's embarrassing. Special Teams had been okay most of the season, but was back to the good 'ol Redskins ST we know this week. We made Tavon look like Devin Hester. Just an awful day on punt coverage. Are they better than last season? Sure. But it wasn't going to take much for that to happen for as bad as they were last year. Overall, where does this team go from here? You honesly only have a handful of players to build around. Kerrigan, Robinson, Williams, and Breeland. That's really sad and to me is on Allen. As the GM, you should be able to acquire talent through the draft and FA. We really don't have much to show from recent drafts. So what does Snyder do? If he fires Gruden after a season, it looks like he's the same old Snyder. If he lets Gruden stay, is there any guarantee this team gets any better next year with Gruden?

I honestly think it may be hopeless as long as Snyder owns the team. It's popular to blame everything on the current coaching staff -- and they certainly are not performing adequately -- but when the problems are so systemic and long term, you just have to conclude that the problems stem from just a poorly structured / run organization generally, essentially coming from the only member of the organization who has been here through the whole fiasco -- Dan Snyder. And I'm not just "Snyder bashing" here. I just think that the odds that Snyder is a good owner, but one who has had 20+ years of "bad luck" -- is almost zero. It's far more likely that he has structured a dysfunctional environment and no matter who enters it, it compromises their effectiveness. I have been in such "bad organizations" in the work world, as well as "good organizations," and I can tell you with 100% certainty that corporate culture is one of the biggest defining factors of success and failure.

The defining moment for the Redskins over the past several decades is when Jack Kent Cooke refused to will his team to his son John, who had worked as Team President for decades. John then was sent scrambling to obtain financing and, after briefly partnering with Snyder, he was screwed over by Snyder who outflanked him. Snyder's original purchase of the team set the stage for our misery for decades, and likely many more decades of crappiness.

I don't doubt that we'll luck box into a few good seasons over the years -- for instance 2012, when the planets align -- but I'm not seeing long term, sustained success, because that would require a decent organizational structure.

At this point, I'm borderline amused -- and borderline depressed -- over the daily criticism of Haslett and Gruden on these boards. It's not that I disagree that they haven't performed. But it's kind of like I'm listening to a doctor misdiagnosing a patient over and over again, treating surface symptoms, only to leave the patient feeling sick because the underlying cause is still rooted in place. It's not about Haslett or Gruden. OR Griffin. It's about Snyder. And I'm not just "bashing" ... I think it's just a logical conclusion when you look at the "long haul" of years...

 

[MikeApf]

i now officially hate the rams

Rams use players acquired in RG3 trade as captains, just to torment Washington

Honestly, everyone is on the Rams nuts about this trade. What have they done with all those players? They haven't had a winning season or playoff appearance with them. Pead and Stacy don't even see the field anymore. Is Pead even still on the team? And there's a few others I haven't even heard of. Sure they acquired a bunch of players in that deal, but it's not like any of them have helped the team do anything. This isn't the Herschel Walker deal where Dallas ended up with some superstars.

I totally agree with this. Rams: 7-8-1 in 2012; 7-9 in 2013; 6-7 currently and folks are acting like they are winning multiple superbowls.

The trade didn't work out for the Redskins but I see why they made it. The fact is, you could be 8-8 give or take a few games like the Rams every single year, or you could go for that transformative guy who would make you a winner every single year. The Redskins felt they had that guy in Griffin. THey may have been wrong, but the thought process was not necessarily wrong.

And, the Rams definitely are not winning super bowls with the players they got from the trade.

Fisher is a bit of a d*ck for the stunt he pulled.

 

[Sebowski]

Honestly, where does this team go from here? For probably the first time I can remember as a Redskins fan, this franchise honestly seems hopeless. I'm all for continuity for this franchise because we need it badly, but Gruden isn't the answer and it's painfully obvious. Gruden was supposed to come here and "fix" RG3. Can anyone deny that RG3 has actually gotten worse from last season? It was leaked out that Kirk was the QB Gruden really wanted here. Can anyone say that Kirk has gotten any better under Gruden? Well Colt was the guy Gruden brought in this offseason. Is anyone impressed with Colt's play? Has the offense really looked any better for more than a game or so under any of these QBs? How many 1st year head coaches go through 3 QBs in their 1st season? Sure he had to go to Kirk early because of Griffin's injury, but he's played musical chairs with the QBs all season and the offense honestly hasn't gotten any better. Then you have the defense. They've had their moments, but overall, the defense isn't any better than the day Haslett became the DC. The only players worth a damn on defense are Kerrigan, Robinson and maybe Breeland. Not a whole lot else to feel good about. I could understand if it was the same guy getting beat in coverage every week, but every game exposes someone else in our secondary. It's embarrassing. Special Teams had been okay most of the season, but was back to the good 'ol Redskins ST we know this week. We made Tavon look like Devin Hester. Just an awful day on punt coverage. Are they better than last season? Sure. But it wasn't going to take much for that to happen for as bad as they were last year. Overall, where does this team go from here? You honesly only have a handful of players to build around. Kerrigan, Robinson, Williams, and Breeland. That's really sad and to me is on Allen. As the GM, you should be able to acquire talent through the draft and FA. We really don't have much to show from recent drafts. So what does Snyder do? If he fires Gruden after a season, it looks like he's the same old Snyder. If he lets Gruden stay, is there any guarantee this team gets any better next year with Gruden?

I honestly think it may be hopeless as long as Snyder owns the team. It's popular to blame everything on the current coaching staff -- and they certainly are not performing adequately -- but when the problems are so systemic and long term, you just have to conclude that the problems stem from just a poorly structured / run organization generally, essentially coming from the only member of the organization who has been here through the whole fiasco -- Dan Snyder. And I'm not just "Snyder bashing" here. I just think that the odds that Snyder is a good owner, but one who has had 20+ years of "bad luck" -- is almost zero. It's far more likely that he has structured a dysfunctional environment and no matter who enters it, it compromises their effectiveness. I have been in such "bad organizations" in the work world, as well as "good organizations," and I can tell you with 100% certainty that corporate culture is one of the biggest defining factors of success and failure.

The defining moment for the Redskins over the past several decades is when Jack Kent Cooke refused to will his team to his son John, who had worked as Team President for decades. John then was sent scrambling to obtain financing and, after briefly partnering with Snyder, he was screwed over by Snyder who outflanked him. Snyder's original purchase of the team set the stage for our misery for decades, and likely many more decades of crappiness.

I don't doubt that we'll luck box into a few good seasons over the years -- for instance 2012, when the planets align -- but I'm not seeing long term, sustained success, because that would require a decent organizational structure.

At this point, I'm borderline amused -- and borderline depressed -- over the daily criticism of Haslett and Gruden on these boards. It's not that I disagree that they haven't performed. But it's kind of like I'm listening to a doctor misdiagnosing a patient over and over again, treating surface symptoms, only to leave the patient feeling sick because the underlying cause is still rooted in place. It's not about Haslett or Gruden. OR Griffin. It's about Snyder. And I'm not just "bashing" ... I think it's just a logical conclusion when you look at the "long haul" of years...

I'm amused that you think this is an original take. This thread, this board, and any other Skins board is constantly blaming The Danny for everything. "Top down", "long haul", "systematic" all things people say over and over and over and over and over again. I'm tired of it for two reasons: 1. there is literally nothing anyone can do about it. He isn't going anywhere. So get used to it. 2. A bad owner can win. Jim Irsay is an idiot. But he happened to Luck into (see what I did there?) a couple of HOF caliber QBs to lead the team for 30 years. I'm not superstitious. I don't believe in curses or karma. Snyder may not get us ahead because he'll be the best owner in the league, but he won't keep us in the gutter for the entirety of his life (and he hasn't. there have been a handful of good years). I'd much rather focus on #### that actually has a chance of changing. And yes, hope things can turn around. If I believed it was as hopeless as all the "As long as Snyder RabbleRabble…" types do, then I would have been done with the NFL a long time ago. The Skins are the only thing keeping me interested in this stupid sport.

 

[nittanylion]

London Fletcher, is scheduled to be live on the Sports Junkies on 106.7 FM in about 15 minutes, 9 AM, fyi...

...for the life of me, at this point I can't understand why anyone listens to 980 AM any more. I mean, if we're all in this together, why would anyone listen to the propaganda network owned and operated by Dan Snyder himself? It may be hard to listen to for some, but brutal truth is still the truth, and the Redskins reality is just that bad. How it's presented on The Fan may be biased (isn't everything?), but at least it's biased in the direction of stark reality that a pig is a pig rather than dressing it up in lipstick and makeup.

 

[hammerva]

London Fletcher is now on with the Junkies. Bickel has destroyed him the entire morning so let so how this turns out

 

[Sebowski]

That 106.7 websites sucks

 

[hammerva]

Fletcher basically admitted that he stays with the team on the final year for the money. I mean sure he is probably the 30th person in the last 15 years who did that but we haven't heard people admit it since the Laverneous (misspelled) Coles days

 

[Sebowski]

Fletcher basically admitted that he stays with the team on the final year for the money. I mean sure he is probably the 30th person in the last 15 years who did that but we haven't heard people admit it since the Laverneous (misspelled) Coles days

Then he clarified that he was joking and that he liked what he established in Washington and loved playing for Shanahan.

 

[MattFancy]

Honestly, where does this team go from here? For probably the first time I can remember as a Redskins fan, this franchise honestly seems hopeless. I'm all for continuity for this franchise because we need it badly, but Gruden isn't the answer and it's painfully obvious. Gruden was supposed to come here and "fix" RG3. Can anyone deny that RG3 has actually gotten worse from last season? It was leaked out that Kirk was the QB Gruden really wanted here. Can anyone say that Kirk has gotten any better under Gruden? Well Colt was the guy Gruden brought in this offseason. Is anyone impressed with Colt's play? Has the offense really looked any better for more than a game or so under any of these QBs? How many 1st year head coaches go through 3 QBs in their 1st season? Sure he had to go to Kirk early because of Griffin's injury, but he's played musical chairs with the QBs all season and the offense honestly hasn't gotten any better. Then you have the defense. They've had their moments, but overall, the defense isn't any better than the day Haslett became the DC. The only players worth a damn on defense are Kerrigan, Robinson and maybe Breeland. Not a whole lot else to feel good about. I could understand if it was the same guy getting beat in coverage every week, but every game exposes someone else in our secondary. It's embarrassing. Special Teams had been okay most of the season, but was back to the good 'ol Redskins ST we know this week. We made Tavon look like Devin Hester. Just an awful day on punt coverage. Are they better than last season? Sure. But it wasn't going to take much for that to happen for as bad as they were last year. Overall, where does this team go from here? You honesly only have a handful of players to build around. Kerrigan, Robinson, Williams, and Breeland. That's really sad and to me is on Allen. As the GM, you should be able to acquire talent through the draft and FA. We really don't have much to show from recent drafts. So what does Snyder do? If he fires Gruden after a season, it looks like he's the same old Snyder. If he lets Gruden stay, is there any guarantee this team gets any better next year with Gruden?

I honestly think it may be hopeless as long as Snyder owns the team. It's popular to blame everything on the current coaching staff -- and they certainly are not performing adequately -- but when the problems are so systemic and long term, you just have to conclude that the problems stem from just a poorly structured / run organization generally, essentially coming from the only member of the organization who has been here through the whole fiasco -- Dan Snyder. And I'm not just "Snyder bashing" here. I just think that the odds that Snyder is a good owner, but one who has had 20+ years of "bad luck" -- is almost zero. It's far more likely that he has structured a dysfunctional environment and no matter who enters it, it compromises their effectiveness. I have been in such "bad organizations" in the work world, as well as "good organizations," and I can tell you with 100% certainty that corporate culture is one of the biggest defining factors of success and failure.

The defining moment for the Redskins over the past several decades is when Jack Kent Cooke refused to will his team to his son John, who had worked as Team President for decades. John then was sent scrambling to obtain financing and, after briefly partnering with Snyder, he was screwed over by Snyder who outflanked him. Snyder's original purchase of the team set the stage for our misery for decades, and likely many more decades of crappiness.

I don't doubt that we'll luck box into a few good seasons over the years -- for instance 2012, when the planets align -- but I'm not seeing long term, sustained success, because that would require a decent organizational structure.

At this point, I'm borderline amused -- and borderline depressed -- over the daily criticism of Haslett and Gruden on these boards. It's not that I disagree that they haven't performed. But it's kind of like I'm listening to a doctor misdiagnosing a patient over and over again, treating surface symptoms, only to leave the patient feeling sick because the underlying cause is still rooted in place. It's not about Haslett or Gruden. OR Griffin. It's about Snyder. And I'm not just "bashing" ... I think it's just a logical conclusion when you look at the "long haul" of years...

I'm amused that you think this is an original take. This thread, this board, and any other Skins board is constantly blaming The Danny for everything. "Top down", "long haul", "systematic" all things people say over and over and over and over and over again. I'm tired of it for two reasons: 1. there is literally nothing anyone can do about it. He isn't going anywhere. So get used to it. 2. A bad owner can win. Jim Irsay is an idiot. But he happened to Luck into (see what I did there?) a couple of HOF caliber QBs to lead the team for 30 years. I'm not superstitious. I don't believe in curses or karma. Snyder may not get us ahead because he'll be the best owner in the league, but he won't keep us in the gutter for the entirety of his life (and he hasn't. there have been a handful of good years). I'd much rather focus on #### that actually has a chance of changing. And yes, hope things can turn around. If I believed it was as hopeless as all the "As long as Snyder RabbleRabble…" types do, then I would have been done with the NFL a long time ago. The Skins are the only thing keeping me interested in this stupid sport.

Agreed that bad owners can win. Look at Jones, hell even Al Davis won. And like you said, we're not going to change the owner, so why not take issue with the aspects of the team that can change. Those being the coaches, GM and players.

 

[MikeApf]

Honestly, where does this team go from here? For probably the first time I can remember as a Redskins fan, this franchise honestly seems hopeless. I'm all for continuity for this franchise because we need it badly, but Gruden isn't the answer and it's painfully obvious. Gruden was supposed to come here and "fix" RG3. Can anyone deny that RG3 has actually gotten worse from last season? It was leaked out that Kirk was the QB Gruden really wanted here. Can anyone say that Kirk has gotten any better under Gruden? Well Colt was the guy Gruden brought in this offseason. Is anyone impressed with Colt's play? Has the offense really looked any better for more than a game or so under any of these QBs? How many 1st year head coaches go through 3 QBs in their 1st season? Sure he had to go to Kirk early because of Griffin's injury, but he's played musical chairs with the QBs all season and the offense honestly hasn't gotten any better. Then you have the defense. They've had their moments, but overall, the defense isn't any better than the day Haslett became the DC. The only players worth a damn on defense are Kerrigan, Robinson and maybe Breeland. Not a whole lot else to feel good about. I could understand if it was the same guy getting beat in coverage every week, but every game exposes someone else in our secondary. It's embarrassing. Special Teams had been okay most of the season, but was back to the good 'ol Redskins ST we know this week. We made Tavon look like Devin Hester. Just an awful day on punt coverage. Are they better than last season? Sure. But it wasn't going to take much for that to happen for as bad as they were last year. Overall, where does this team go from here? You honesly only have a handful of players to build around. Kerrigan, Robinson, Williams, and Breeland. That's really sad and to me is on Allen. As the GM, you should be able to acquire talent through the draft and FA. We really don't have much to show from recent drafts. So what does Snyder do? If he fires Gruden after a season, it looks like he's the same old Snyder. If he lets Gruden stay, is there any guarantee this team gets any better next year with Gruden?

I honestly think it may be hopeless as long as Snyder owns the team. It's popular to blame everything on the current coaching staff -- and they certainly are not performing adequately -- but when the problems are so systemic and long term, you just have to conclude that the problems stem from just a poorly structured / run organization generally, essentially coming from the only member of the organization who has been here through the whole fiasco -- Dan Snyder. And I'm not just "Snyder bashing" here. I just think that the odds that Snyder is a good owner, but one who has had 20+ years of "bad luck" -- is almost zero. It's far more likely that he has structured a dysfunctional environment and no matter who enters it, it compromises their effectiveness. I have been in such "bad organizations" in the work world, as well as "good organizations," and I can tell you with 100% certainty that corporate culture is one of the biggest defining factors of success and failure.

The defining moment for the Redskins over the past several decades is when Jack Kent Cooke refused to will his team to his son John, who had worked as Team President for decades. John then was sent scrambling to obtain financing and, after briefly partnering with Snyder, he was screwed over by Snyder who outflanked him. Snyder's original purchase of the team set the stage for our misery for decades, and likely many more decades of crappiness.

I don't doubt that we'll luck box into a few good seasons over the years -- for instance 2012, when the planets align -- but I'm not seeing long term, sustained success, because that would require a decent organizational structure.

At this point, I'm borderline amused -- and borderline depressed -- over the daily criticism of Haslett and Gruden on these boards. It's not that I disagree that they haven't performed. But it's kind of like I'm listening to a doctor misdiagnosing a patient over and over again, treating surface symptoms, only to leave the patient feeling sick because the underlying cause is still rooted in place. It's not about Haslett or Gruden. OR Griffin. It's about Snyder. And I'm not just "bashing" ... I think it's just a logical conclusion when you look at the "long haul" of years...

I'm amused that you think this is an original take. This thread, this board, and any other Skins board is constantly blaming The Danny for everything. "Top down", "long haul", "systematic" all things people say over and over and over and over and over again. I'm tired of it for two reasons: 1. there is literally nothing anyone can do about it. He isn't going anywhere. So get used to it. 2. A bad owner can win. Jim Irsay is an idiot. But he happened to Luck into (see what I did there?) a couple of HOF caliber QBs to lead the team for 30 years. I'm not superstitious. I don't believe in curses or karma. Snyder may not get us ahead because he'll be the best owner in the league, but he won't keep us in the gutter for the entirety of his life (and he hasn't. there have been a handful of good years). I'd much rather focus on #### that actually has a chance of changing. And yes, hope things can turn around. If I believed it was as hopeless as all the "As long as Snyder RabbleRabble…" types do, then I would have been done with the NFL a long time ago. The Skins are the only thing keeping me interested in this stupid sport.

I don't think it's an original take at all. I just think it's the correct take.

 

[MattFancy]

London Fletcher, is scheduled to be live on the Sports Junkies on 106.7 FM in about 15 minutes, 9 AM, fyi...

...for the life of me, at this point I can't understand why anyone listens to 980 AM any more. I mean, if we're all in this together, why would anyone listen to the propaganda network owned and operated by Dan Snyder himself? It may be hard to listen to for some, but brutal truth is still the truth, and the Redskins reality is just that bad. How it's presented on The Fan may be biased (isn't everything?), but at least it's biased in the direction of stark reality that a pig is a pig rather than dressing it up in lipstick and makeup.

Only thing worth listening to on 980 is Cooley. I do hate listening to Chad Dukes though. He's just too annoying. But yes, listening to Sheehan and Loverro is awful and anything with Larry Michael on is just a freaking joke. Is there a bigger puppet in sports?

 

[MikeApf]

Honestly, where does this team go from here? For probably the first time I can remember as a Redskins fan, this franchise honestly seems hopeless. I'm all for continuity for this franchise because we need it badly, but Gruden isn't the answer and it's painfully obvious. Gruden was supposed to come here and "fix" RG3. Can anyone deny that RG3 has actually gotten worse from last season? It was leaked out that Kirk was the QB Gruden really wanted here. Can anyone say that Kirk has gotten any better under Gruden? Well Colt was the guy Gruden brought in this offseason. Is anyone impressed with Colt's play? Has the offense really looked any better for more than a game or so under any of these QBs? How many 1st year head coaches go through 3 QBs in their 1st season? Sure he had to go to Kirk early because of Griffin's injury, but he's played musical chairs with the QBs all season and the offense honestly hasn't gotten any better. Then you have the defense. They've had their moments, but overall, the defense isn't any better than the day Haslett became the DC. The only players worth a damn on defense are Kerrigan, Robinson and maybe Breeland. Not a whole lot else to feel good about. I could understand if it was the same guy getting beat in coverage every week, but every game exposes someone else in our secondary. It's embarrassing. Special Teams had been okay most of the season, but was back to the good 'ol Redskins ST we know this week. We made Tavon look like Devin Hester. Just an awful day on punt coverage. Are they better than last season? Sure. But it wasn't going to take much for that to happen for as bad as they were last year. Overall, where does this team go from here? You honesly only have a handful of players to build around. Kerrigan, Robinson, Williams, and Breeland. That's really sad and to me is on Allen. As the GM, you should be able to acquire talent through the draft and FA. We really don't have much to show from recent drafts. So what does Snyder do? If he fires Gruden after a season, it looks like he's the same old Snyder. If he lets Gruden stay, is there any guarantee this team gets any better next year with Gruden?

I honestly think it may be hopeless as long as Snyder owns the team. It's popular to blame everything on the current coaching staff -- and they certainly are not performing adequately -- but when the problems are so systemic and long term, you just have to conclude that the problems stem from just a poorly structured / run organization generally, essentially coming from the only member of the organization who has been here through the whole fiasco -- Dan Snyder. And I'm not just "Snyder bashing" here. I just think that the odds that Snyder is a good owner, but one who has had 20+ years of "bad luck" -- is almost zero. It's far more likely that he has structured a dysfunctional environment and no matter who enters it, it compromises their effectiveness. I have been in such "bad organizations" in the work world, as well as "good organizations," and I can tell you with 100% certainty that corporate culture is one of the biggest defining factors of success and failure.

The defining moment for the Redskins over the past several decades is when Jack Kent Cooke refused to will his team to his son John, who had worked as Team President for decades. John then was sent scrambling to obtain financing and, after briefly partnering with Snyder, he was screwed over by Snyder who outflanked him. Snyder's original purchase of the team set the stage for our misery for decades, and likely many more decades of crappiness.

I don't doubt that we'll luck box into a few good seasons over the years -- for instance 2012, when the planets align -- but I'm not seeing long term, sustained success, because that would require a decent organizational structure.

At this point, I'm borderline amused -- and borderline depressed -- over the daily criticism of Haslett and Gruden on these boards. It's not that I disagree that they haven't performed. But it's kind of like I'm listening to a doctor misdiagnosing a patient over and over again, treating surface symptoms, only to leave the patient feeling sick because the underlying cause is still rooted in place. It's not about Haslett or Gruden. OR Griffin. It's about Snyder. And I'm not just "bashing" ... I think it's just a logical conclusion when you look at the "long haul" of years...

I'm amused that you think this is an original take. This thread, this board, and any other Skins board is constantly blaming The Danny for everything. "Top down", "long haul", "systematic" all things people say over and over and over and over and over again. I'm tired of it for two reasons: 1. there is literally nothing anyone can do about it. He isn't going anywhere. So get used to it. 2. A bad owner can win. Jim Irsay is an idiot. But he happened to Luck into (see what I did there?) a couple of HOF caliber QBs to lead the team for 30 years. I'm not superstitious. I don't believe in curses or karma. Snyder may not get us ahead because he'll be the best owner in the league, but he won't keep us in the gutter for the entirety of his life (and he hasn't. there have been a handful of good years). I'd much rather focus on #### that actually has a chance of changing. And yes, hope things can turn around. If I believed it was as hopeless as all the "As long as Snyder RabbleRabble…" types do, then I would have been done with the NFL a long time ago. The Skins are the only thing keeping me interested in this stupid sport.

Agreed that bad owners can win. Look at Jones, hell even Al Davis won. And like you said, we're not going to change the owner, so why not take issue with the aspects of the team that can change. Those being the coaches, GM and players.

I agree that bad owners can win. At the same time, I think it makes it a heck of a lot harder, and should be acknowledged.

 

[MattFancy]

Honestly, where does this team go from here? For probably the first time I can remember as a Redskins fan, this franchise honestly seems hopeless. I'm all for continuity for this franchise because we need it badly, but Gruden isn't the answer and it's painfully obvious. Gruden was supposed to come here and "fix" RG3. Can anyone deny that RG3 has actually gotten worse from last season? It was leaked out that Kirk was the QB Gruden really wanted here. Can anyone say that Kirk has gotten any better under Gruden? Well Colt was the guy Gruden brought in this offseason. Is anyone impressed with Colt's play? Has the offense really looked any better for more than a game or so under any of these QBs? How many 1st year head coaches go through 3 QBs in their 1st season? Sure he had to go to Kirk early because of Griffin's injury, but he's played musical chairs with the QBs all season and the offense honestly hasn't gotten any better. Then you have the defense. They've had their moments, but overall, the defense isn't any better than the day Haslett became the DC. The only players worth a damn on defense are Kerrigan, Robinson and maybe Breeland. Not a whole lot else to feel good about. I could understand if it was the same guy getting beat in coverage every week, but every game exposes someone else in our secondary. It's embarrassing. Special Teams had been okay most of the season, but was back to the good 'ol Redskins ST we know this week. We made Tavon look like Devin Hester. Just an awful day on punt coverage. Are they better than last season? Sure. But it wasn't going to take much for that to happen for as bad as they were last year. Overall, where does this team go from here? You honesly only have a handful of players to build around. Kerrigan, Robinson, Williams, and Breeland. That's really sad and to me is on Allen. As the GM, you should be able to acquire talent through the draft and FA. We really don't have much to show from recent drafts. So what does Snyder do? If he fires Gruden after a season, it looks like he's the same old Snyder. If he lets Gruden stay, is there any guarantee this team gets any better next year with Gruden?

I honestly think it may be hopeless as long as Snyder owns the team. It's popular to blame everything on the current coaching staff -- and they certainly are not performing adequately -- but when the problems are so systemic and long term, you just have to conclude that the problems stem from just a poorly structured / run organization generally, essentially coming from the only member of the organization who has been here through the whole fiasco -- Dan Snyder. And I'm not just "Snyder bashing" here. I just think that the odds that Snyder is a good owner, but one who has had 20+ years of "bad luck" -- is almost zero. It's far more likely that he has structured a dysfunctional environment and no matter who enters it, it compromises their effectiveness. I have been in such "bad organizations" in the work world, as well as "good organizations," and I can tell you with 100% certainty that corporate culture is one of the biggest defining factors of success and failure.

The defining moment for the Redskins over the past several decades is when Jack Kent Cooke refused to will his team to his son John, who had worked as Team President for decades. John then was sent scrambling to obtain financing and, after briefly partnering with Snyder, he was screwed over by Snyder who outflanked him. Snyder's original purchase of the team set the stage for our misery for decades, and likely many more decades of crappiness.

I don't doubt that we'll luck box into a few good seasons over the years -- for instance 2012, when the planets align -- but I'm not seeing long term, sustained success, because that would require a decent organizational structure.

At this point, I'm borderline amused -- and borderline depressed -- over the daily criticism of Haslett and Gruden on these boards. It's not that I disagree that they haven't performed. But it's kind of like I'm listening to a doctor misdiagnosing a patient over and over again, treating surface symptoms, only to leave the patient feeling sick because the underlying cause is still rooted in place. It's not about Haslett or Gruden. OR Griffin. It's about Snyder. And I'm not just "bashing" ... I think it's just a logical conclusion when you look at the "long haul" of years...

I'm amused that you think this is an original take. This thread, this board, and any other Skins board is constantly blaming The Danny for everything. "Top down", "long haul", "systematic" all things people say over and over and over and over and over again. I'm tired of it for two reasons: 1. there is literally nothing anyone can do about it. He isn't going anywhere. So get used to it. 2. A bad owner can win. Jim Irsay is an idiot. But he happened to Luck into (see what I did there?) a couple of HOF caliber QBs to lead the team for 30 years. I'm not superstitious. I don't believe in curses or karma. Snyder may not get us ahead because he'll be the best owner in the league, but he won't keep us in the gutter for the entirety of his life (and he hasn't. there have been a handful of good years). I'd much rather focus on #### that actually has a chance of changing. And yes, hope things can turn around. If I believed it was as hopeless as all the "As long as Snyder RabbleRabble…" types do, then I would have been done with the NFL a long time ago. The Skins are the only thing keeping me interested in this stupid sport.

Agreed that bad owners can win. Look at Jones, hell even Al Davis won. And like you said, we're not going to change the owner, so why not take issue with the aspects of the team that can change. Those being the coaches, GM and players.

I agree that bad owners can win. At the same time, I think it makes it a heck of a lot harder, and should be acknowledged.

Oh for sure it's definitely harder. And it's not going to be easy for the Redskins to win with Snyder. But it's certainly possible. When will it happen? Not anytime soon.

 

[MikeApf]

Honestly, where does this team go from here? For probably the first time I can remember as a Redskins fan, this franchise honestly seems hopeless. I'm all for continuity for this franchise because we need it badly, but Gruden isn't the answer and it's painfully obvious. Gruden was supposed to come here and "fix" RG3. Can anyone deny that RG3 has actually gotten worse from last season? It was leaked out that Kirk was the QB Gruden really wanted here. Can anyone say that Kirk has gotten any better under Gruden? Well Colt was the guy Gruden brought in this offseason. Is anyone impressed with Colt's play? Has the offense really looked any better for more than a game or so under any of these QBs? How many 1st year head coaches go through 3 QBs in their 1st season? Sure he had to go to Kirk early because of Griffin's injury, but he's played musical chairs with the QBs all season and the offense honestly hasn't gotten any better. Then you have the defense. They've had their moments, but overall, the defense isn't any better than the day Haslett became the DC. The only players worth a damn on defense are Kerrigan, Robinson and maybe Breeland. Not a whole lot else to feel good about. I could understand if it was the same guy getting beat in coverage every week, but every game exposes someone else in our secondary. It's embarrassing. Special Teams had been okay most of the season, but was back to the good 'ol Redskins ST we know this week. We made Tavon look like Devin Hester. Just an awful day on punt coverage. Are they better than last season? Sure. But it wasn't going to take much for that to happen for as bad as they were last year. Overall, where does this team go from here? You honesly only have a handful of players to build around. Kerrigan, Robinson, Williams, and Breeland. That's really sad and to me is on Allen. As the GM, you should be able to acquire talent through the draft and FA. We really don't have much to show from recent drafts. So what does Snyder do? If he fires Gruden after a season, it looks like he's the same old Snyder. If he lets Gruden stay, is there any guarantee this team gets any better next year with Gruden?

I honestly think it may be hopeless as long as Snyder owns the team. It's popular to blame everything on the current coaching staff -- and they certainly are not performing adequately -- but when the problems are so systemic and long term, you just have to conclude that the problems stem from just a poorly structured / run organization generally, essentially coming from the only member of the organization who has been here through the whole fiasco -- Dan Snyder. And I'm not just "Snyder bashing" here. I just think that the odds that Snyder is a good owner, but one who has had 20+ years of "bad luck" -- is almost zero. It's far more likely that he has structured a dysfunctional environment and no matter who enters it, it compromises their effectiveness. I have been in such "bad organizations" in the work world, as well as "good organizations," and I can tell you with 100% certainty that corporate culture is one of the biggest defining factors of success and failure.

The defining moment for the Redskins over the past several decades is when Jack Kent Cooke refused to will his team to his son John, who had worked as Team President for decades. John then was sent scrambling to obtain financing and, after briefly partnering with Snyder, he was screwed over by Snyder who outflanked him. Snyder's original purchase of the team set the stage for our misery for decades, and likely many more decades of crappiness.

I don't doubt that we'll luck box into a few good seasons over the years -- for instance 2012, when the planets align -- but I'm not seeing long term, sustained success, because that would require a decent organizational structure.

At this point, I'm borderline amused -- and borderline depressed -- over the daily criticism of Haslett and Gruden on these boards. It's not that I disagree that they haven't performed. But it's kind of like I'm listening to a doctor misdiagnosing a patient over and over again, treating surface symptoms, only to leave the patient feeling sick because the underlying cause is still rooted in place. It's not about Haslett or Gruden. OR Griffin. It's about Snyder. And I'm not just "bashing" ... I think it's just a logical conclusion when you look at the "long haul" of years...

I'm amused that you think this is an original take. This thread, this board, and any other Skins board is constantly blaming The Danny for everything. "Top down", "long haul", "systematic" all things people say over and over and over and over and over again. I'm tired of it for two reasons: 1. there is literally nothing anyone can do about it. He isn't going anywhere. So get used to it. 2. A bad owner can win. Jim Irsay is an idiot. But he happened to Luck into (see what I did there?) a couple of HOF caliber QBs to lead the team for 30 years. I'm not superstitious. I don't believe in curses or karma. Snyder may not get us ahead because he'll be the best owner in the league, but he won't keep us in the gutter for the entirety of his life (and he hasn't. there have been a handful of good years). I'd much rather focus on #### that actually has a chance of changing. And yes, hope things can turn around. If I believed it was as hopeless as all the "As long as Snyder RabbleRabble…" types do, then I would have been done with the NFL a long time ago. The Skins are the only thing keeping me interested in this stupid sport.

I don't think it's an original take at all. I just think it's the correct take.

Sorry...meant to write more in response. I guess, I will just disagree with you on the line of thought: it may be that the owner is the main problem, but since we can't fix that, let's harp on the coaches that are not the main problem. So, that's really your argument? Actually, the fans actually COULD do something about the owner by stopping to support the team, hurting him financially, and forcing him to change in that way. The argument: "we can't change anything" is the same thing that keeps people from voting and then later griping that they don't like politicians, after you know, not trying anything to change it.

Again, not saying my viewpoint is original at all...it's not. But just saying, "let's gripe about the stuff we can change, but that won't really make a change"....I'm not on board with that.

 

[MikeApf]

Honestly, where does this team go from here? For probably the first time I can remember as a Redskins fan, this franchise honestly seems hopeless. I'm all for continuity for this franchise because we need it badly, but Gruden isn't the answer and it's painfully obvious. Gruden was supposed to come here and "fix" RG3. Can anyone deny that RG3 has actually gotten worse from last season? It was leaked out that Kirk was the QB Gruden really wanted here. Can anyone say that Kirk has gotten any better under Gruden? Well Colt was the guy Gruden brought in this offseason. Is anyone impressed with Colt's play? Has the offense really looked any better for more than a game or so under any of these QBs? How many 1st year head coaches go through 3 QBs in their 1st season? Sure he had to go to Kirk early because of Griffin's injury, but he's played musical chairs with the QBs all season and the offense honestly hasn't gotten any better. Then you have the defense. They've had their moments, but overall, the defense isn't any better than the day Haslett became the DC. The only players worth a damn on defense are Kerrigan, Robinson and maybe Breeland. Not a whole lot else to feel good about. I could understand if it was the same guy getting beat in coverage every week, but every game exposes someone else in our secondary. It's embarrassing. Special Teams had been okay most of the season, but was back to the good 'ol Redskins ST we know this week. We made Tavon look like Devin Hester. Just an awful day on punt coverage. Are they better than last season? Sure. But it wasn't going to take much for that to happen for as bad as they were last year. Overall, where does this team go from here? You honesly only have a handful of players to build around. Kerrigan, Robinson, Williams, and Breeland. That's really sad and to me is on Allen. As the GM, you should be able to acquire talent through the draft and FA. We really don't have much to show from recent drafts. So what does Snyder do? If he fires Gruden after a season, it looks like he's the same old Snyder. If he lets Gruden stay, is there any guarantee this team gets any better next year with Gruden?

I honestly think it may be hopeless as long as Snyder owns the team. It's popular to blame everything on the current coaching staff -- and they certainly are not performing adequately -- but when the problems are so systemic and long term, you just have to conclude that the problems stem from just a poorly structured / run organization generally, essentially coming from the only member of the organization who has been here through the whole fiasco -- Dan Snyder. And I'm not just "Snyder bashing" here. I just think that the odds that Snyder is a good owner, but one who has had 20+ years of "bad luck" -- is almost zero. It's far more likely that he has structured a dysfunctional environment and no matter who enters it, it compromises their effectiveness. I have been in such "bad organizations" in the work world, as well as "good organizations," and I can tell you with 100% certainty that corporate culture is one of the biggest defining factors of success and failure.

The defining moment for the Redskins over the past several decades is when Jack Kent Cooke refused to will his team to his son John, who had worked as Team President for decades. John then was sent scrambling to obtain financing and, after briefly partnering with Snyder, he was screwed over by Snyder who outflanked him. Snyder's original purchase of the team set the stage for our misery for decades, and likely many more decades of crappiness.

I don't doubt that we'll luck box into a few good seasons over the years -- for instance 2012, when the planets align -- but I'm not seeing long term, sustained success, because that would require a decent organizational structure.

At this point, I'm borderline amused -- and borderline depressed -- over the daily criticism of Haslett and Gruden on these boards. It's not that I disagree that they haven't performed. But it's kind of like I'm listening to a doctor misdiagnosing a patient over and over again, treating surface symptoms, only to leave the patient feeling sick because the underlying cause is still rooted in place. It's not about Haslett or Gruden. OR Griffin. It's about Snyder. And I'm not just "bashing" ... I think it's just a logical conclusion when you look at the "long haul" of years...

I'm amused that you think this is an original take. This thread, this board, and any other Skins board is constantly blaming The Danny for everything. "Top down", "long haul", "systematic" all things people say over and over and over and over and over again. I'm tired of it for two reasons: 1. there is literally nothing anyone can do about it. He isn't going anywhere. So get used to it. 2. A bad owner can win. Jim Irsay is an idiot. But he happened to Luck into (see what I did there?) a couple of HOF caliber QBs to lead the team for 30 years. I'm not superstitious. I don't believe in curses or karma. Snyder may not get us ahead because he'll be the best owner in the league, but he won't keep us in the gutter for the entirety of his life (and he hasn't. there have been a handful of good years). I'd much rather focus on #### that actually has a chance of changing. And yes, hope things can turn around. If I believed it was as hopeless as all the "As long as Snyder RabbleRabble…" types do, then I would have been done with the NFL a long time ago. The Skins are the only thing keeping me interested in this stupid sport.

Agreed that bad owners can win. Look at Jones, hell even Al Davis won. And like you said, we're not going to change the owner, so why not take issue with the aspects of the team that can change. Those being the coaches, GM and players.

I agree that bad owners can win. At the same time, I think it makes it a heck of a lot harder, and should be acknowledged.

Oh for sure it's definitely harder. And it's not going to be easy for the Redskins to win with Snyder. But it's certainly possible. When will it happen? Not anytime soon.

I will admit it's possible. If Griffin had stayed healthy, SNyder may have luck boxed into a number of years of success...so this possibility does indeed give me hope. I won't stop rooting for the team, no matter what. I'm just cynical about the org right now is all...

 

[Brunell4MVP]

I think what we are finding out is Mike/Kyle Shanahan were pretty good coaches that were saddled with...

1) lack of skill caused by the cap penalty and some of the remnants of Vinny's moves

2) a bad defensive coordinator that Allen protected from being fired

3) potentially other issues in the organization

4) a QB they probably liked that got hurt, which ruined their big plans. Yes they did not protect him and some of it is on them. But remember, Shanny repeated asked for a better playing field and the organization never delivered. I mean, you wouldn't want to have a good field for your players. Let them haul around in mud and slop all year long, when you've got a QB whose game is built for field turf.

By the end of it the Red Lobster had enough of the organization, and it showed in his public relations side because I sense he wanted to get fired.

Mike Apt hits the nail on the head to confirm what we all know...the organization is dysfunctional. Even if Snyder has for the most part rinsed his hands of interfering in the football operations, the organization isn't programmed to succeed. Changing the coach will yield no different results. Every coach here for the last 15 years (including Gibbs) was all too happy to leave. Nobody ever said they wished they still were the coach. They'd all rather sit at home or be coordinators for better run teams.

Snyder has run dysfunctional organizations for a while. He failed at a ticket business. His business leasing places was financially successful, but his service delivery was awful. His magazine business tanked. Snyder Communications was a disaster to work for, but made money by cheating and lying. He does know how to make money, but his product/service delivery is never there. No different with the Skins. Sleeping in money while delivering nothing.

 

[MattFancy]

I think what we are finding out is Mike/Kyle Shanahan were pretty good coaches that were saddled with...

1) lack of skill caused by the cap penalty and some of the remnants of Vinny's moves

2) a bad defensive coordinator that Allen protected from being fired

3) potentially other issues in the organization

4) a QB they probably liked that got hurt, which ruined their big plans. Yes they did not protect him and some of it is on them. But remember, Shanny repeated asked for a better playing field and the organization never delivered. I mean, you wouldn't want to have a good field for your players. Let them haul around in mud and slop all year long, when you've got a QB whose game is built for field turf.

By the end of it the Red Lobster had enough of the organization, and it showed in his public relations side because I sense he wanted to get fired.

Mike Apt hits the nail on the head to confirm what we all know...the organization is dysfunctional. Even if Snyder has for the most part rinsed his hands of interfering in the football operations, the organization isn't programmed to succeed. Changing the coach will yield no different results. Every coach here for the last 15 years (including Gibbs) was all too happy to leave. Nobody ever said they wished they still were the coach. They'd all rather sit at home or be coordinators for better run teams.

Can't say I disagree with anything here. I mean look what Kyle is doing in Cleveland with Brian Hoyer and random RBs and WRs. I'd say our offense is probably more talented than Cleveland's on paper, yet I'd rather their offense right now.

This team is a complete mess and it starts from the top. Snyder is way too involved in the day-to-day. Just hire a real football mind and let him do everything else. I get Snyder wants to be involved, because who wouldn't. but he has to realize what he's doing isn't working.

Allen is more of a PR man for this team than a GM. What GM gets excited about the team's Harvest Fest? Or that the team is wearing gold pants again. Or that the team is having "Homecoming" or Alumni events? That's the job of a team President, not a full-time GM. Let Bruce stay on as President, but they need a real GM that focuses on football and not all the off the field stuff.

Gruden is not a HC. It's painfully obvious. He can't handle the media, he can't get players to buy into the system, he can't get the players to produce. We didn't think we could get much worse than last year's 3-13, but here we are a year later sitting with the identical record as last season. Almost getting to it the same way as last season. Our 2 young QBs that once showed some promise have totally regressed this season. The offense is a complete debacle. These were things Gruden was supposed to fix. Well, he's failed miserably in those regards.

Then there's the defense. Haslett has been here 5 years and can anyone honestly say in the 5 years he's been here that the defense is any better than when he first started? Still seeing the same problems year after year after year. Can't pressure the QB. Can't force turnovers. Can't get cruical 3rd down stops. Guys playing out of position. It's a total disaster on defense and there's no one to blame but Haslett.

There isn't much hope in this team. At least after last season, there was hope with RG3 having a full healthy offseason. Now? I don't know where to look for hope. Can any other team in the league say that?