***Official*** Washington Redskins 2014 Thread (In-Season) (1 Viewer)

[dhockster]

I hope all you Redskins fans were smart enough to play St. Louis' defense yesterday in FF. It got me 40 points. You guys deserve something for your suffering.

This team is a train wreck, and I cannot look away. It is both morbid and fascinating to watch.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Honestly, where does this team go from here? For probably the first time I can remember as a Redskins fan, this franchise honestly seems hopeless. I'm all for continuity for this franchise because we need it badly, but Gruden isn't the answer and it's painfully obvious. Gruden was supposed to come here and "fix" RG3. Can anyone deny that RG3 has actually gotten worse from last season? It was leaked out that Kirk was the QB Gruden really wanted here. Can anyone say that Kirk has gotten any better under Gruden? Well Colt was the guy Gruden brought in this offseason. Is anyone impressed with Colt's play? Has the offense really looked any better for more than a game or so under any of these QBs? How many 1st year head coaches go through 3 QBs in their 1st season? Sure he had to go to Kirk early because of Griffin's injury, but he's played musical chairs with the QBs all season and the offense honestly hasn't gotten any better. Then you have the defense. They've had their moments, but overall, the defense isn't any better than the day Haslett became the DC. The only players worth a damn on defense are Kerrigan, Robinson and maybe Breeland. Not a whole lot else to feel good about. I could understand if it was the same guy getting beat in coverage every week, but every game exposes someone else in our secondary. It's embarrassing. Special Teams had been okay most of the season, but was back to the good 'ol Redskins ST we know this week. We made Tavon look like Devin Hester. Just an awful day on punt coverage. Are they better than last season? Sure. But it wasn't going to take much for that to happen for as bad as they were last year. Overall, where does this team go from here? You honesly only have a handful of players to build around. Kerrigan, Robinson, Williams, and Breeland. That's really sad and to me is on Allen. As the GM, you should be able to acquire talent through the draft and FA. We really don't have much to show from recent drafts. So what does Snyder do? If he fires Gruden after a season, it looks like he's the same old Snyder. If he lets Gruden stay, is there any guarantee this team gets any better next year with Gruden?

I honestly think it may be hopeless as long as Snyder owns the team. It's popular to blame everything on the current coaching staff -- and they certainly are not performing adequately -- but when the problems are so systemic and long term, you just have to conclude that the problems stem from just a poorly structured / run organization generally, essentially coming from the only member of the organization who has been here through the whole fiasco -- Dan Snyder. And I'm not just "Snyder bashing" here. I just think that the odds that Snyder is a good owner, but one who has had 20+ years of "bad luck" -- is almost zero. It's far more likely that he has structured a dysfunctional environment and no matter who enters it, it compromises their effectiveness. I have been in such "bad organizations" in the work world, as well as "good organizations," and I can tell you with 100% certainty that corporate culture is one of the biggest defining factors of success and failure.

The defining moment for the Redskins over the past several decades is when Jack Kent Cooke refused to will his team to his son John, who had worked as Team President for decades. John then was sent scrambling to obtain financing and, after briefly partnering with Snyder, he was screwed over by Snyder who outflanked him. Snyder's original purchase of the team set the stage for our misery for decades, and likely many more decades of crappiness.

I don't doubt that we'll luck box into a few good seasons over the years -- for instance 2012, when the planets align -- but I'm not seeing long term, sustained success, because that would require a decent organizational structure.

At this point, I'm borderline amused -- and borderline depressed -- over the daily criticism of Haslett and Gruden on these boards. It's not that I disagree that they haven't performed. But it's kind of like I'm listening to a doctor misdiagnosing a patient over and over again, treating surface symptoms, only to leave the patient feeling sick because the underlying cause is still rooted in place. It's not about Haslett or Gruden. OR Griffin. It's about Snyder. And I'm not just "bashing" ... I think it's just a logical conclusion when you look at the "long haul" of years...

I'm amused that you think this is an original take. This thread, this board, and any other Skins board is constantly blaming The Danny for everything. "Top down", "long haul", "systematic" all things people say over and over and over and over and over again. I'm tired of it for two reasons: 1. there is literally nothing anyone can do about it. He isn't going anywhere. So get used to it. 2. A bad owner can win. Jim Irsay is an idiot. But he happened to Luck into (see what I did there?) a couple of HOF caliber QBs to lead the team for 30 years. I'm not superstitious. I don't believe in curses or karma. Snyder may not get us ahead because he'll be the best owner in the league, but he won't keep us in the gutter for the entirety of his life (and he hasn't. there have been a handful of good years). I'd much rather focus on #### that actually has a chance of changing. And yes, hope things can turn around. If I believed it was as hopeless as all the "As long as Snyder RabbleRabble…" types do, then I would have been done with the NFL a long time ago. The Skins are the only thing keeping me interested in this stupid sport.

Agreed that bad owners can win. Look at Jones, hell even Al Davis won. And like you said, we're not going to change the owner, so why not take issue with the aspects of the team that can change. Those being the coaches, GM and players.

I agree that bad owners can win. At the same time, I think it makes it a heck of a lot harder, and should be acknowledged.

There is a difference in winning despite a bad owner and winning despite a bad football side of the organization.

Al Davis was all about the football. Sure he wanted to make money and thus Oakland/LA stuff. But he loved football and winning at football. So at least before he went insane he had smart football guys under him that ran the football side of the organization well. He coached, so he knew the game. His motto was "Just win, baby".

Snyder wants to make money. Winning would help him make money, but he can also make money not winning. He doesn't know what to do on the football side of things. He's been hornswaggled by Vinny and Bruce, who have convinced him they should be in charge. His motto should be "Just make money, baby"

 

[Hang 10]

I think what we are finding out is Mike/Kyle Shanahan were pretty good coaches that were saddled with...

1) lack of skill caused by the cap penalty and some of the remnants of Vinny's moves

2) a bad defensive coordinator that Allen protected from being fired

3) potentially other issues in the organization

4) a QB they probably liked that got hurt, which ruined their big plans. Yes they did not protect him and some of it is on them. But remember, Shanny repeated asked for a better playing field and the organization never delivered. I mean, you wouldn't want to have a good field for your players. Let them haul around in mud and slop all year long, when you've got a QB whose game is built for field turf.

By the end of it the Red Lobster had enough of the organization, and it showed in his public relations side because I sense he wanted to get fired.

Mike Apt hits the nail on the head to confirm what we all know...the organization is dysfunctional. Even if Snyder has for the most part rinsed his hands of interfering in the football operations, the organization isn't programmed to succeed. Changing the coach will yield no different results. Every coach here for the last 15 years (including Gibbs) was all too happy to leave. Nobody ever said they wished they still were the coach. They'd all rather sit at home or be coordinators for better run teams.

Snyder has run dysfunctional organizations for a while. He failed at a ticket business. His business leasing places was financially successful, but his service delivery was awful. His magazine business tanked. Snyder Communications was a disaster to work for, but made money by cheating and lying. He does know how to make money, but his product/service delivery is never there. No different with the Skins. Sleeping in money while delivering nothing.

I'm so tired of this narrative that Shannahan was avictim. He was here for 4 years and they had double digit losses all but one year. He had total autonomy. HE wanted to switch to the 3-4. HE wanted Haslett as his D-coordinator. HE wanted Griffin. And HE ran Griffin until his knee gave out. The turf didn't hurt Griffin's knee. An incompetent coaching and training staff did.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

I think what we are finding out is Mike/Kyle Shanahan were pretty good coaches that were saddled with...

1) lack of skill caused by the cap penalty and some of the remnants of Vinny's moves

2) a bad defensive coordinator that Allen protected from being fired

3) potentially other issues in the organization

4) a QB they probably liked that got hurt, which ruined their big plans. Yes they did not protect him and some of it is on them. But remember, Shanny repeated asked for a better playing field and the organization never delivered. I mean, you wouldn't want to have a good field for your players. Let them haul around in mud and slop all year long, when you've got a QB whose game is built for field turf.

By the end of it the Red Lobster had enough of the organization, and it showed in his public relations side because I sense he wanted to get fired.

Mike Apt hits the nail on the head to confirm what we all know...the organization is dysfunctional. Even if Snyder has for the most part rinsed his hands of interfering in the football operations, the organization isn't programmed to succeed. Changing the coach will yield no different results. Every coach here for the last 15 years (including Gibbs) was all too happy to leave. Nobody ever said they wished they still were the coach. They'd all rather sit at home or be coordinators for better run teams.

Snyder has run dysfunctional organizations for a while. He failed at a ticket business. His business leasing places was financially successful, but his service delivery was awful. His magazine business tanked. Snyder Communications was a disaster to work for, but made money by cheating and lying. He does know how to make money, but his product/service delivery is never there. No different with the Skins. Sleeping in money while delivering nothing.

I'm so tired of this narrative that Shannahan was avictim. He was here for 4 years and they had double digit losses all but one year. He had total autonomy. HE wanted to switch to the 3-4. HE wanted Haslett as his D-coordinator. HE wanted Griffin. And HE ran Griffin until his knee gave out. The turf didn't hurt Griffin's knee. An incompetent coaching and training staff did.

I disagree with so much you wrote.

 

[thayman]

So on a positive note. No matter what you think of Snyder there's no way anyone competent comes here once Allen and Gruden are fired unless they get total control. Soooo I guess we got that going for us.

 

[Hang 10]

I think what we are finding out is Mike/Kyle Shanahan were pretty good coaches that were saddled with...

1) lack of skill caused by the cap penalty and some of the remnants of Vinny's moves

2) a bad defensive coordinator that Allen protected from being fired

3) potentially other issues in the organization

4) a QB they probably liked that got hurt, which ruined their big plans. Yes they did not protect him and some of it is on them. But remember, Shanny repeated asked for a better playing field and the organization never delivered. I mean, you wouldn't want to have a good field for your players. Let them haul around in mud and slop all year long, when you've got a QB whose game is built for field turf.

By the end of it the Red Lobster had enough of the organization, and it showed in his public relations side because I sense he wanted to get fired.

Mike Apt hits the nail on the head to confirm what we all know...the organization is dysfunctional. Even if Snyder has for the most part rinsed his hands of interfering in the football operations, the organization isn't programmed to succeed. Changing the coach will yield no different results. Every coach here for the last 15 years (including Gibbs) was all too happy to leave. Nobody ever said they wished they still were the coach. They'd all rather sit at home or be coordinators for better run teams.

Snyder has run dysfunctional organizations for a while. He failed at a ticket business. His business leasing places was financially successful, but his service delivery was awful. His magazine business tanked. Snyder Communications was a disaster to work for, but made money by cheating and lying. He does know how to make money, but his product/service delivery is never there. No different with the Skins. Sleeping in money while delivering nothing.

I'm so tired of this narrative that Shannahan was avictim. He was here for 4 years and they had double digit losses all but one year. He had total autonomy. HE wanted to switch to the 3-4. HE wanted Haslett as his D-coordinator. HE wanted Griffin. And HE ran Griffin until his knee gave out. The turf didn't hurt Griffin's knee. An incompetent coaching and training staff did.

I disagree with so much you wrote.

Please explain to me what I'm wrong about.

 

[Marvelous]

I know this can't be any fun for Redskin fans, but this soap opera is turning into one of the most fascinating things I've seen in the NFL in quite a few years. The clash of strong personalities here (Gruden, Snyder, RG3, DJax) is pretty damn riveting. I never used to pay attention to the Redskins. Now I can't get enough of them.

It is sad, though, that the franchise has fallen on such tough times. I have some great great memories of the Skins from the 80's.

There was a similar soap opera at the end of last year, with Shanahan trying to get fired, and tons of leaks from the front office, and drama over who would be fired and kept.

At the end of it you had Bruce Allen and Jim Haslett left standing, for inexplicable reasons. Yet there was a feeling that the team's endless plummet to the depths had stopped, that there was now some sort of floor and solid foundation from which to build. And there was optimism, because, well, we're fans. We love them when they're good and when they suck, and we hope.

There was no floor. There was no solid foundation. The team is completely exposed now as a wreck from top to bottom. It's not fun now.

I like it just fine. As I've told you and everyone else for years, there's so much 'truth is stranger than fiction' stuff going on behind the scenes with this franchise, it's just shocking.

It all needs to come out, and hopefully with Fletcher starting the trickle, more folks will be emboldened to spill the beans.

Personally, what I'm looking forward to is more stuff coming out that I've heard first and second hand that I'm hesitant to share because it might get people I know in trouble...once it's public, all bets are off.

You'd be shocked, I tell you. Absolutely F'ing shocked.

...and a lot of the negative views you have towards certain past and present members of the organization might just change towards the positive...or at least not be so negative.

If it's going to start leaking, the whole boat needs to go down.

Gotta hit rock bottom before you can rise back up. I'm a firm believer in that.

I would be interested in hearing who we may think of more positively than we currently do. I realize the time is not right to give out any details.

Thinking about my posts over the years, I am usually pretty supportive of the team and take a wait and see approach to how things turn out. And things have consistently turned out quite poorly. I have been most critical of the front office and how they build the team (signing free agents, breaking the bank for them, trading away draft picks, not drafting OL and DL).

 

[MattFancy]

Was thinking that Gruden benching Griffin was not smart for his career. Before, he could at least blame it all on Griffin and just say, "look this guy doesn't have it". But we're getting the same results with McCoy/Cousins as we were with Griffin. Now, it falls squarely on Gruden since he can't really blame anyone else.

There's teams with less talent on paper that are doing better than us. Who thought the Browns would be a playoff contender this season? Even the Raiders are showing some signs of life late in the season with wins over the Chiefs and 49ers. They were embarrassed last week against the Rams and responded with a win against the 49ers. The Redskins get embarrassed week after week and don't show up for the next game. Gruden has completely lost this team and I don't see how he gets it back. You can't continue to throw players under the bus and expect them to respond to you. Gruden did it to himself.

 

[Hang 10]

Was thinking that Gruden benching Griffin was not smart for his career. Before, he could at least blame it all on Griffin and just say, "look this guy doesn't have it". But we're getting the same results with McCoy/Cousins as we were with Griffin. Now, it falls squarely on Gruden since he can't really blame anyone else.

There's teams with less talent on paper that are doing better than us. Who thought the Browns would be a playoff contender this season? Even the Raiders are showing some signs of life late in the season with wins over the Chiefs and 49ers. They were embarrassed last week against the Rams and responded with a win against the 49ers. The Redskins get embarrassed week after week and don't show up for the next game. Gruden has completely lost this team and I don't see how he gets it back. You can't continue to throw players under the bus and expect them to respond to you. Gruden did it to himself.

Agree 100% benching RGIII just puts more heat on Gruden. It's win/win if Jay lets the season play out with Griffin sinking or swimming. Either his play improves and Jay gets to take some credit for that or he's terrible and you can blame it on Griffin being a bust...then you can move on. Instead it looks like Gruden wouldn't know what a good fit for his system was if it fell right into his lap.

I mean really...what kind of a look is it when you bench your franchise QB due to poor play, only to bring a 3rd stringer and get shutout...at home? It looks like you don't know what the #### you're doing.

 

[MattFancy]

Was thinking that Gruden benching Griffin was not smart for his career. Before, he could at least blame it all on Griffin and just say, "look this guy doesn't have it". But we're getting the same results with McCoy/Cousins as we were with Griffin. Now, it falls squarely on Gruden since he can't really blame anyone else.

There's teams with less talent on paper that are doing better than us. Who thought the Browns would be a playoff contender this season? Even the Raiders are showing some signs of life late in the season with wins over the Chiefs and 49ers. They were embarrassed last week against the Rams and responded with a win against the 49ers. The Redskins get embarrassed week after week and don't show up for the next game. Gruden has completely lost this team and I don't see how he gets it back. You can't continue to throw players under the bus and expect them to respond to you. Gruden did it to himself.

Agree 100% benching RGIII just puts more heat on Gruden. It's win/win if Jay lets the season play out with Griffin sinking or swimming. Either his play improves and Jay gets to take some credit for that or he's terrible and you can blame it on Griffin being a bust...then you can move on. Instead it looks like Gruden wouldn't know what a good fit for his system was if it fell right into his lap.

I mean really...what kind of a look is it when you bench your franchise QB due to poor play, only to bring a 3rd stringer and get shutout...at home? It looks like you don't know what the #### you're doing.

Exactly. He's gone through 3 QBs this season. None of them has been able to play consecutive solid games as the starter. What does that say about the offense?

 

[MikeApf]

Was thinking that Gruden benching Griffin was not smart for his career. Before, he could at least blame it all on Griffin and just say, "look this guy doesn't have it". But we're getting the same results with McCoy/Cousins as we were with Griffin. Now, it falls squarely on Gruden since he can't really blame anyone else.

There's teams with less talent on paper that are doing better than us. Who thought the Browns would be a playoff contender this season? Even the Raiders are showing some signs of life late in the season with wins over the Chiefs and 49ers. They were embarrassed last week against the Rams and responded with a win against the 49ers. The Redskins get embarrassed week after week and don't show up for the next game. Gruden has completely lost this team and I don't see how he gets it back. You can't continue to throw players under the bus and expect them to respond to you. Gruden did it to himself.

Agree 100% benching RGIII just puts more heat on Gruden. It's win/win if Jay lets the season play out with Griffin sinking or swimming. Either his play improves and Jay gets to take some credit for that or he's terrible and you can blame it on Griffin being a bust...then you can move on. Instead it looks like Gruden wouldn't know what a good fit for his system was if it fell right into his lap.

I mean really...what kind of a look is it when you bench your franchise QB due to poor play, only to bring a 3rd stringer and get shutout...at home? It looks like you don't know what the #### you're doing.

Gruden flip flopping on QBs is really the most damaging thing for him this year...it does make him look flaky. He definitely should have let Griffin finish the year.

 

[MattFancy]

Was thinking that Gruden benching Griffin was not smart for his career. Before, he could at least blame it all on Griffin and just say, "look this guy doesn't have it". But we're getting the same results with McCoy/Cousins as we were with Griffin. Now, it falls squarely on Gruden since he can't really blame anyone else.

There's teams with less talent on paper that are doing better than us. Who thought the Browns would be a playoff contender this season? Even the Raiders are showing some signs of life late in the season with wins over the Chiefs and 49ers. They were embarrassed last week against the Rams and responded with a win against the 49ers. The Redskins get embarrassed week after week and don't show up for the next game. Gruden has completely lost this team and I don't see how he gets it back. You can't continue to throw players under the bus and expect them to respond to you. Gruden did it to himself.

Agree 100% benching RGIII just puts more heat on Gruden. It's win/win if Jay lets the season play out with Griffin sinking or swimming. Either his play improves and Jay gets to take some credit for that or he's terrible and you can blame it on Griffin being a bust...then you can move on. Instead it looks like Gruden wouldn't know what a good fit for his system was if it fell right into his lap.

I mean really...what kind of a look is it when you bench your franchise QB due to poor play, only to bring a 3rd stringer and get shutout...at home? It looks like you don't know what the #### you're doing.

Gruden flip flopping on QBs is really the most damaging thing for him this year...it does make him look flaky. He definitely should have let Griffin finish the year.

Yup. To me, that shows he doesn't trust his decision making as a leader. Make a decision and stick with it. The offense has no rythm because he's constantly changing QBs. There's a chance we don't see McCoy this week. Which doesn't do anything to help the offense.

I think his fate was sealed once Kirk failed. When all those reports came out that Kirk was the guy he really wanted here, Gruden had his perfect chance. But Kirk couldn't get out of his own way. McCoy played decent in the Titans and Cowboys games, but he was pretty rough in the 1st half of the Dallas game. Same with the Colts game. Looked bad in the 1st half and had a better 2nd half. Yesterday, Colt looked like the Colt everyone thought he was.

The problem is if Gruden goes, who comes in next? Briles? Mahlzan? Bevell? I really wanted Bevell last year.

 

[packersfan]

Was thinking that Gruden benching Griffin was not smart for his career. Before, he could at least blame it all on Griffin and just say, "look this guy doesn't have it". But we're getting the same results with McCoy/Cousins as we were with Griffin. Now, it falls squarely on Gruden since he can't really blame anyone else.

There's teams with less talent on paper that are doing better than us. Who thought the Browns would be a playoff contender this season? Even the Raiders are showing some signs of life late in the season with wins over the Chiefs and 49ers. They were embarrassed last week against the Rams and responded with a win against the 49ers. The Redskins get embarrassed week after week and don't show up for the next game. Gruden has completely lost this team and I don't see how he gets it back. You can't continue to throw players under the bus and expect them to respond to you. Gruden did it to himself.

Agree 100% benching RGIII just puts more heat on Gruden. It's win/win if Jay lets the season play out with Griffin sinking or swimming. Either his play improves and Jay gets to take some credit for that or he's terrible and you can blame it on Griffin being a bust...then you can move on. Instead it looks like Gruden wouldn't know what a good fit for his system was if it fell right into his lap.

I mean really...what kind of a look is it when you bench your franchise QB due to poor play, only to bring a 3rd stringer and get shutout...at home? It looks like you don't know what the #### you're doing.

Gruden flip flopping on QBs is really the most damaging thing for him this year...it does make him look flaky. He definitely should have let Griffin finish the year.

He was hired in large part to try and get Griffin back on track. Perhaps that's impossible but giving up after 4-5 games made no sense to me. It told me Gruden couldn't handle the job. Making matters worse the QBs he reportedly preferred due to "fit" both have flopped which calls into question whether he can properly evaluate the position at all.

The smartest thing to do was to keep Griffin in as the starter. Washington was/is going nowhere so more losses aren't going to cause any problems. What Gruden needed was as much game film as possible on Griffin. That way if he clearly stunk it's all right there on tape and he can use that if he tells management the team needs to do go in another direction at QB moving forward. But only giving him a handful of games (not all of which were terrible either by Griffin) doesn't help the situation at all. There's nothing there which tells us conclusively that Griffin can't do the job or that he can. And I have to think that's the most pressing question this team needs to answer. By handling the QB situation so ineptly Gruden hasn't been able to do that at all.

 

[MattFancy]

Was thinking that Gruden benching Griffin was not smart for his career. Before, he could at least blame it all on Griffin and just say, "look this guy doesn't have it". But we're getting the same results with McCoy/Cousins as we were with Griffin. Now, it falls squarely on Gruden since he can't really blame anyone else.

There's teams with less talent on paper that are doing better than us. Who thought the Browns would be a playoff contender this season? Even the Raiders are showing some signs of life late in the season with wins over the Chiefs and 49ers. They were embarrassed last week against the Rams and responded with a win against the 49ers. The Redskins get embarrassed week after week and don't show up for the next game. Gruden has completely lost this team and I don't see how he gets it back. You can't continue to throw players under the bus and expect them to respond to you. Gruden did it to himself.

Agree 100% benching RGIII just puts more heat on Gruden. It's win/win if Jay lets the season play out with Griffin sinking or swimming. Either his play improves and Jay gets to take some credit for that or he's terrible and you can blame it on Griffin being a bust...then you can move on. Instead it looks like Gruden wouldn't know what a good fit for his system was if it fell right into his lap.

I mean really...what kind of a look is it when you bench your franchise QB due to poor play, only to bring a 3rd stringer and get shutout...at home? It looks like you don't know what the #### you're doing.

Gruden flip flopping on QBs is really the most damaging thing for him this year...it does make him look flaky. He definitely should have let Griffin finish the year.

He was hired in large part to try and get Griffin back on track. Perhaps that's impossible but giving up after 4-5 games made no sense to me. It told me Gruden couldn't handle the job. Making matters worse the QBs he reportedly preferred due to "fit" both have flopped which calls into question whether he can properly evaluate the position at all.

The smartest thing to do was to keep Griffin in as the starter. Washington was/is going nowhere so more losses aren't going to cause any problems. What Gruden needed was as much game film as possible on Griffin. That way if he clearly stunk it's all right there on tape and he can use that if he tells management the team needs to do go in another direction at QB moving forward. But only giving him a handful of games (not all of which were terrible either by Griffin) doesn't help the situation at all. There's nothing there which tells us conclusively that Griffin can't do the job or that he can. And I have to think that's the most pressing question this team needs to answer. By handling the QB situation so ineptly Gruden hasn't been able to do that at all.

Agree 100%. Griffin started 5 games this season. 1 was cut short due to injury. So basically 4 games under Gruden and he decided Griffin wasn't a fit? Seems really strange. And when you go back and look at the preseason, no Griffin wasn't great, but he barely played compared to other starters around the league. Seemed like Gruden has his mind made up really early about Griffin, which makes me wonder why he came here if he wasn't keen on Griffin.

But then that leads to Kirk who was supposed to be Gruden's guy. Yet he banished Kirk to the bench after a few starts as well. Hell, Kirk hasn't even been active the last 5 weeks. So the QB that Gruden supposedly liked the most here, wasn't the answer either and Gruden seems to have broken him as well.

So he was brought here to develop Griffin. Griffin gets 4 full games and the plug is pulled. Seems strange to me.

 

[massraider]

Anyone think it's possible that Gruden is daring Snyder to fire him?

 

[MattFancy]

Anyone think it's possible that Gruden is daring Snyder to fire him?

I do. Alot of his moves make no sense at all. Plus he seems quick to point the blame at the players and not the coaches. Think he doesn't care at this point. If Snyder fires him, he still collects $16M over the next 4 years. Not a bad gig.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

Hey, so we hosted a holiday party at the house this weekend. It went really well, everyone had a great time. Thought I should check on more relevant matters, so what did you do?

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

Hey, so we hosted a holiday party at the house this weekend. It went really well, everyone had a great time. Thought I should check on more relevant matters, so what did you do?

Watched the Colts game

 

[Sebowski]

Was thinking that Gruden benching Griffin was not smart for his career. Before, he could at least blame it all on Griffin and just say, "look this guy doesn't have it". But we're getting the same results with McCoy/Cousins as we were with Griffin. Now, it falls squarely on Gruden since he can't really blame anyone else.

There's teams with less talent on paper that are doing better than us. Who thought the Browns would be a playoff contender this season? Even the Raiders are showing some signs of life late in the season with wins over the Chiefs and 49ers. They were embarrassed last week against the Rams and responded with a win against the 49ers. The Redskins get embarrassed week after week and don't show up for the next game. Gruden has completely lost this team and I don't see how he gets it back. You can't continue to throw players under the bus and expect them to respond to you. Gruden did it to himself.

Agree 100% benching RGIII just puts more heat on Gruden. It's win/win if Jay lets the season play out with Griffin sinking or swimming. Either his play improves and Jay gets to take some credit for that or he's terrible and you can blame it on Griffin being a bust...then you can move on. Instead it looks like Gruden wouldn't know what a good fit for his system was if it fell right into his lap.

I mean really...what kind of a look is it when you bench your franchise QB due to poor play, only to bring a 3rd stringer and get shutout...at home? It looks like you don't know what the #### you're doing.

Gruden flip flopping on QBs is really the most damaging thing for him this year...it does make him look flaky. He definitely should have let Griffin finish the year.

I just realized something. That is exactly what his brother is famous for. Always hating and flipping his QBs.

 

[MattFancy]

Was thinking that Gruden benching Griffin was not smart for his career. Before, he could at least blame it all on Griffin and just say, "look this guy doesn't have it". But we're getting the same results with McCoy/Cousins as we were with Griffin. Now, it falls squarely on Gruden since he can't really blame anyone else.

There's teams with less talent on paper that are doing better than us. Who thought the Browns would be a playoff contender this season? Even the Raiders are showing some signs of life late in the season with wins over the Chiefs and 49ers. They were embarrassed last week against the Rams and responded with a win against the 49ers. The Redskins get embarrassed week after week and don't show up for the next game. Gruden has completely lost this team and I don't see how he gets it back. You can't continue to throw players under the bus and expect them to respond to you. Gruden did it to himself.

Agree 100% benching RGIII just puts more heat on Gruden. It's win/win if Jay lets the season play out with Griffin sinking or swimming. Either his play improves and Jay gets to take some credit for that or he's terrible and you can blame it on Griffin being a bust...then you can move on. Instead it looks like Gruden wouldn't know what a good fit for his system was if it fell right into his lap.

I mean really...what kind of a look is it when you bench your franchise QB due to poor play, only to bring a 3rd stringer and get shutout...at home? It looks like you don't know what the #### you're doing.

Gruden flip flopping on QBs is really the most damaging thing for him this year...it does make him look flaky. He definitely should have let Griffin finish the year.

I just realized something. That is exactly what his brother is famous for. Always hating and flipping his QBs.

Yup. Jon Gruden was never famous for developing QBs either

 

[fatness]

Was thinking that Gruden benching Griffin was not smart for his career. Before, he could at least blame it all on Griffin and just say, "look this guy doesn't have it". But we're getting the same results with McCoy/Cousins as we were with Griffin. Now, it falls squarely on Gruden since he can't really blame anyone else.

There's teams with less talent on paper that are doing better than us. Who thought the Browns would be a playoff contender this season? Even the Raiders are showing some signs of life late in the season with wins over the Chiefs and 49ers. They were embarrassed last week against the Rams and responded with a win against the 49ers. The Redskins get embarrassed week after week and don't show up for the next game. Gruden has completely lost this team and I don't see how he gets it back. You can't continue to throw players under the bus and expect them to respond to you. Gruden did it to himself.

Agree 100% benching RGIII just puts more heat on Gruden. It's win/win if Jay lets the season play out with Griffin sinking or swimming. Either his play improves and Jay gets to take some credit for that or he's terrible and you can blame it on Griffin being a bust...then you can move on. Instead it looks like Gruden wouldn't know what a good fit for his system was if it fell right into his lap.

I mean really...what kind of a look is it when you bench your franchise QB due to poor play, only to bring a 3rd stringer and get shutout...at home? It looks like you don't know what the #### you're doing.

Gruden flip flopping on QBs is really the most damaging thing for him this year...it does make him look flaky. He definitely should have let Griffin finish the year.

He was hired in large part to try and get Griffin back on track. Perhaps that's impossible but giving up after 4-5 games made no sense to me. It told me Gruden couldn't handle the job. Making matters worse the QBs he reportedly preferred due to "fit" both have flopped which calls into question whether he can properly evaluate the position at all.

The smartest thing to do was to keep Griffin in as the starter. Washington was/is going nowhere so more losses aren't going to cause any problems. What Gruden needed was as much game film as possible on Griffin. That way if he clearly stunk it's all right there on tape and he can use that if he tells management the team needs to do go in another direction at QB moving forward. But only giving him a handful of games (not all of which were terrible either by Griffin) doesn't help the situation at all. There's nothing there which tells us conclusively that Griffin can't do the job or that he can. And I have to think that's the most pressing question this team needs to answer. By handling the QB situation so ineptly Gruden hasn't been able to do that at all.

Agree 100%. Griffin started 5 games this season. 1 was cut short due to injury. So basically 4 games under Gruden and he decided Griffin wasn't a fit? Seems really strange. And when you go back and look at the preseason, no Griffin wasn't great, but he barely played compared to other starters around the league. Seemed like Gruden has his mind made up really early about Griffin, which makes me wonder why he came here if he wasn't keen on Griffin.

But then that leads to Kirk who was supposed to be Gruden's guy. Yet he banished Kirk to the bench after a few starts as well. Hell, Kirk hasn't even been active the last 5 weeks. So the QB that Gruden supposedly liked the most here, wasn't the answer either and Gruden seems to have broken him as well.

So he was brought here to develop Griffin. Griffin gets 4 full games and the plug is pulled. Seems strange to me.

I bolded the things above that I agree with.

Something revealing in yesterdays Gruden pressure was his response to the opening question, about being "one and done". He looked like a deer in the headlights, and ended up saying he'd keep coaching the way he knows how.

And the way he knows how is with good offensive line blocking, a power running game, and lots of passing. That is what was set on the table for him with the Bengals, and what he knew how to coach. He doesn't have the good offensive line for either pass blocking or a power running game here, and he has failed to adjust. Saying yesterday that he'll keep coaching the way he knows how means he has no other idea, or is unwilling to try any other idea. This team is overmatched following his system, and he's sticking with it. He's going to keep doing what's failing, and it doesn't matter if it's due to stubbornness or cluelessness.

Weeks ago when the press was fawning over Gruden for being so "refreshing" and for "telling it like it is" about the players I think he got really full of himself, puffed up with some pride that wasn't deserved by his team's performance. And he stuck with his overt player criticism and his kneejerk QB changes because he believed he was good, and people were liking him in the press rooms.

Now he's out of QB's, and being asked if he thinks he'll be fired, and he looks as ineffective and helpless as his team. And he has no way to help his team, except keep coaching the way he knows. The public fawning over him is over, the players don't know what to do, and all he has to tell them is 'the same thing".

The team is worse now than at the beginning of the year. He needs to go, for that reason. There's nothing about the guy that says "we could probably build a roster around this guy and the way he coaches."

 

[fatness]

There's nothing about the guy that says "we could probably build a roster around this guy and the way he coaches."

Which leads me to Bruce Allen. There's nothing about Bruce Allen that says "this guy can build a roster". There wasn't before he came here, and while he's had a few hits in the draft he's had far more misses in the draft and free agency, and re-signings.

He's obviously good at front-office politics because to the surprise of most of us he emerged from the Shanahan firing as the Big Guy In Charge. Now the roster deficiencies are exposed, the coaching deficiencies are exposed, and he's nowhere to be found. You know damn well what he's doing now is not working to help the coaches or the team, but to secure his own spot in the front office by securing Snyder's ear. Whether Snyder falls for it again -- a bad team performing badly due in part to bad personnel decisions --- remains to be seen. We have no clue where Snyder is on all of this.

 

[fatness]

Colt McCoy's been sacked 6 times the past 2 weeks, and now is hurt. Think about that. We've had 2 QB's get pounded regularly in the pocket, and one QB so afraid of getting pounded that he'd throw the ball to anyone on the field.

Listening to Kevin Sheehan campaigning for Cousins to start again (which he's doing on the radio right now) is pretty funny.

 

[MattFancy]

Colt McCoy's been sacked 6 times the past 2 weeks, and now is hurt. Think about that. We've had 2 QB's get pounded regularly in the pocket, and one QB so afraid of getting pounded that he'd throw the ball to anyone on the field.

Listening to Kevin Sheehan campaigning for Cousins to start again (which he's doing on the radio right now) is pretty funny.

I don't get the Cousins thing. He's been inactive for 5 weeks and suddenly we think he's going to come in and fix this mess?

 

[Marvelous]

Anyone think it's possible that Gruden is daring Snyder to fire him?

I do. Alot of his moves make no sense at all. Plus he seems quick to point the blame at the players and not the coaches. Think he doesn't care at this point. If Snyder fires him, he still collects $16M over the next 4 years. Not a bad gig.

I have thought this for a couple of weeks.

 

[Sebowski]

Colt McCoy's been sacked 6 times the past 2 weeks, and now is hurt. Think about that. We've had 2 QB's get pounded regularly in the pocket, and one QB so afraid of getting pounded that he'd throw the ball to anyone on the field.

Listening to Kevin Sheehan campaigning for Cousins to start again (which he's doing on the radio right now) is pretty funny.

I'm in town right now. The sports radio is awful. I had to turn it off. Everyone just needs a different take to argue about. That guy earlier was hurting himself stretching so hard to disparage Fletcher.

 

[Marvelous]

One more thought: Griffin played ok against Minnesota, not great, but ok. After the bye week, he looked lost on the field. The big mystery question: what happened during the bye week?

It sure seems like something happened that rattle Griffin's confidence. Sure he had deficiencies before then, but against Tampa, he could not execute plays that he ran his rookie season.

The following week, Griffin had such a dumbed down game plan. It's like Gruden wanted Griffin to look so ineffective. But the key question, what happened during the bye week that make Griffin regress so much?

 

[fatness]

Colt McCoy's been sacked 6 times the past 2 weeks, and now is hurt. Think about that. We've had 2 QB's get pounded regularly in the pocket, and one QB so afraid of getting pounded that he'd throw the ball to anyone on the field.

Listening to Kevin Sheehan campaigning for Cousins to start again (which he's doing on the radio right now) is pretty funny.

I don't get the Cousins thing. He's been inactive for 5 weeks and suddenly we think he's going to come in and fix this mess?

Chris Russell just chimed in to say he thought Cousins would start.



I guess Griffin is the Great Satan now.

 

[MattFancy]

Colt McCoy's been sacked 6 times the past 2 weeks, and now is hurt. Think about that. We've had 2 QB's get pounded regularly in the pocket, and one QB so afraid of getting pounded that he'd throw the ball to anyone on the field.

Listening to Kevin Sheehan campaigning for Cousins to start again (which he's doing on the radio right now) is pretty funny.

I don't get the Cousins thing. He's been inactive for 5 weeks and suddenly we think he's going to come in and fix this mess?

Chris Russell just chimed in to say he thought Cousins would start.



I guess Griffin is the Great Satan now.

Cool so after 5 weeks of not playing and probably not getting reps, we're going back to Colt. That would make as much sense as anything else Gruden has done this season.

 

[tangfoot]

I'm in town right now.

We should grab a beer.

 

[Sebowski]

I'm in town right now.

We should grab a beer.

Yes. Hectic. I'll text you.

 

[MattFancy]

Apparently Michigan has reached out to Jay Gruden

 

[davidwb]

Oh, please Lord...no!!! For the love of all things holy...no!!!

It's hard enough being a Redskins fan today...don't compound it by going to Ann Arbor!

Just go away.

 

[pablito]

Jim Irsay is an idiot. But he happened to Luck into (see what I did there?) a couple of HOF caliber QBs to lead the team for 30 years.

There's no doubt that Jim Irsay is an idiot at the personal level. But as an NFL owner, he had the good sense to hire Bill Polian and stay out of his way while he built a consistent winner. Then when that relationship ended, he ran a very professional talent search and hired a relatively unknown Ryan Grigson, rather than a retread or a flavor-of-the-month. Now he's gotten out of Grigson's way while he has built a consistent winner. While you can call it fortuitous that both Manning and Luck were available to the Colts at just the right times, there is no comparison between Irsay and Snyder as knowledgeable, competent NFL owners.

 

[MattFancy]

This press conference seems painful for Jay

 

[HittinHard]

Bruce handin all roster moves over to a proven personnel guy, and bringing quality scouts in has to be Step 1 if we are to ever get better.

 

[dcgangstas]

Apparently Michigan has reached out to Jay Gruden

That ought to make a lot of Buckeye fans happy.

 

[MattFancy]

So RG3 has been a scout team QB the last few weeks. So much for him learning the offense

 

[Hang 10]

Apparently Michigan has reached out to Jay Gruden

leasepleaseplease:

 

[fatness]

Apparently Michigan has reached out to Jay Gruden

"Gruden ready to start Michigan at QB against Giants"

 

[fatness]

Jim Irsay is an idiot. But he happened to Luck into (see what I did there?) a couple of HOF caliber QBs to lead the team for 30 years.

There's no doubt that Jim Irsay is an idiot at the personal level. But as an NFL owner, he had the good sense to hire Bill Polian and stay out of his way while he built a consistent winner. Then when that relationship ended, he ran a very professional talent search and hired a relatively unknown Ryan Grigson, rather than a retread or a flavor-of-the-month. Now he's gotten out of Grigson's way while he has built a consistent winner. While you can call it fortuitous that both Manning and Luck were available to the Colts at just the right times, there is no comparison between Irsay and Snyder as knowledgeable, competent NFL owners.

Agree.

 

[fatness]

This is like living in the middle of sorority gossip.

"He likes Stacy. No, he likes Muffy. No, he likes Alyssa. God no, he hates Muffy and Stacy let him down but he might take her back if she puts out."

John Keim @john_keim · 1 hr1 hour ago

Gruden said Robert griffin III would get the start if McCoy can't play

John Keim @john_keim · 57 mins57 minutes ago

Gruden also made it clear that Kirk cousins might get another chance to play this season. Was enthusiastic about it actually

 

[fatness]

Keim

The Redskins’ season has an odd, 2009 end-of-Jim-Zorn-era feel to it right now. In some ways it’s just as bad, in other ways it is not. Back then, Zorn and owner Dan Snyder were not getting along whatsoever -- Zorn had been stripped of play-calling duties earlier in the season. There’s nothing like that this time. But the quarterback situation is the divider. Is it a bitter one? Haven’t gotten that sense yet, but there is a difference of opinion, it seems. Where it's similar to that season: Just the questions over multiple futures and the drama. Remember, the drama last year didn't really begin until it became apparent that Mike Shanahan would not return as coach. That's when you started to read more stories with anonymous sources.

Yes, the unity question will now arise -- as in, how unified is the locker room. The sense is that the losing, not just this year but 2013 as well, has taken a toll. “Obviously there’s some good unity around here but when you’re losing everyone will question that,” Williams said. “They question the integrity, they question the coach. Everything will be a question as long as we’re losing.”

The Redskins’ 206 total yards of offense were their fewest in a game since Week 12 last season against San Francisco.

 

[fatness]

This press conference seems painful for Jay

Dan Daly ‏@dandalyonsports 56 mins56 minutes ago

The before & after pictures of #Redskins coaches are like the before & after pictures of U.S. presidents. Soon, Gruden will look like LBJ.

 

[RGIII HTTR]

If there is no change in the front office or any other organizational change, then don't fire Gruden...is what I say.

 

[flapgreen]

This team is awful

 

[fatness]

Mike Jones on 5 things that are wrong with the Skins. It's pretty detailed and way too long to quote. Here's the part that jumped out to me:

This thing is getting worse, and it appears that Washington will once again finish last in the NFC East as they have three divisional games ahead of them with all of those foes owning better records.

1. Gruden cracking? – For the first time on Sunday, with another disastrous performance playing out in front of our eyes, you couldn’t help but wonder if Jay Gruden – the young, bright, offensive mind of a first-year head coach – was in over his head. With the offensive ineptitude continuing, and some questionable decision-making, Gruden looked like a desperate guy with no answers.

Why are you running a fake punt on fourth and five from your own 33 when you’re only down by nine with plenty of game left? That had the same feel as the Pierre Garcon end-around pass versus San Francisco, or the failed fourth-down-turned-sack-fumble-touchdown last week, or even the Jim Zorn swinging gate episode.

Why are you abandoning the run, giving your Pro Bowl, workhorse back only eight carries all game long? (Even the Rams wondered why the Redskins gave up on the run so quickly.) Why weren’t there halftime adjustments to account for the pressure packages the Rams presented? Why is this offense, and this team as a whole, continually regressing?

Gruden appeared desperate. He admitted he’s still looking for answers. Players insist that Gruden has not lost the team. They say it would be a mistake if he was fired after one year. But, they are not giving any indication that he is pushing the right buttons and coaxing them towards competitiveness. Rams players said early in the second half, based on the Redskins’ body language and effort, they sensed the home team had already packed it in. That is a sign of a rudderless team and a coach who has either been tuned out, or just never got through.

He goes on to discuss the barren roster and other problems we've been discussing here.

You know, it's funny how some of the beat reporters pick up some of the same things we discuss here, just a week or 2 later.

 

[fatness]

One source I trust tipped me off to a potential landing spot for Gruden: The University of Michigan. This source, who is intimately familiar with the Wolverines’ rapidly emerging coaching search, informed me on Thursday that initial contact has been made between the parties and that Gruden’s representation was enthusiastically open to the potential. I can’t put a figure on the likelihood of Gruden fleeing to Ann Arbor, and another UM source I trust refused to confirm anything I asked, but it’s an interesting leverage point nonetheless.

http://football.realgm.com/src_article/2564/20141208/$10_after_nfl_week_14/

Gruden is apparently a fallback plan if they don't get Jim Harbaugh.

John Keim @john_keim · 49m 49 minutes ago

For what it's worth jay gruden's agent denies he's talked to anyone from Michigan.

 

[dgreen]

@dcsportsbog: I have helpfully compiled the 15 most depressing things said or written about the Redskins this week http://t.co/QTL9ccl5dY

And I am having fun reading a Twitter fight between Zac Boyer and Matt Miller, who is some guy from Bleacher Report.

 

[fatness]

Redskins Nation is close to breaking as shown by less than 40,000 attending the 24-0 loss to the St. Louis Rams on Sunday at FedUp Field. The remaining home games against Philadelphia and Dallas will see more opposing fans than Redskins backers in the stands.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/12/08/rick-snider-redskins-must-stay-with-coach-jay-gruden/