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***** Official Westworld Thread ***** (1 Viewer)

This has been my take since the first episode.  The whole point of this show, and it was stated in Ford's dialogue in this episode, is that there is not "magical moment" of life and consciousness.  We are in a way, all conscious, and perhaps, not conscious at all... at the existential level, it doesn't matter, except for the fact that WHILE IT IS HAPPENING, it does.
This is why I don't feel like the Felix/Sylvester scenes are as bad as most say. Felix is coming to terms with 'what is life' and that makes him seem scared of Maeve. I think he's more unsure or afraid of what is 'real' now that she seems conscious. He's the only person dealing with a woke bot in what is meant to seem like real life(the lab). I have no problem with his actions even though the iTough guys here would just attempt to put her under and wipe her out like Sylvester wants. 

 
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####'s gonna get crazy when there are bots in the real world.

Unless there already are. 

And also depending upon what you consider as the "real" world to begin with.

 
It's clear that Delores' story is about a host experiencing time and memory in a non-linear way.  Which is why I don't really understand the complaint about it being confusing.  Of course it's confusing.  That's how we, as viewers, get to understand what Delores is experiencing.  Literally anything she sees can be a current experience, a memory, or an attempt by her "psyche" to reconcile the two. 

 
I really tried to give this show a lot of chances but it just doesn't work for me.

I will miss the great eye candy, but not the confusing story lines and orgy of unnecessary violence/torture. 

The technicians helping Mauve even after being threatened also seemed absurd to me.

For those still watching and enjoying it, I hope that it has a good payoff for you.

 
we're all robots.
Yeah, until proven otherwise my baseline for this show is that everyone is bot. 

Wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be some kind of Matrix - lite thing.  The real world is devastated somehow and whoever is in charge controls the minds of people, if there really are any people, and in order to control them a little better there is almost a Purge type thing that happens where they are allowed their vacation in Westworld to satisfy their basic animal instincts so that they don't go crazy and then when their vacation is over they are put back into whatever state they were prior to going.

The reveries aren't therefore from the park, but what is left of their human mind trying to make sense of everything and Ford figured out how to let it happen.

Or not.  Heck, for all we know the maze is what the viewer is going through, not the characters on the show and this continues to be, as my first post said, just one huge mind****.

 
I think some of the complaints about Felix and Sylvester are probably fair.  I can fan wank that Felix sees Maeve as human, and is perhaps even infatuated/in love with her, but the show hasn't put a lot of effort into developing his motivations enough to support that.  I also think it's fair to say that the show could have written some more compelling leverage over Sylvester.  Maybe some type of exposition that "misappropriation" of IP would lead to ruinous legal action where Sylvester wouldn't just be out of job, he'd be effectively ruined for life. 

 
I don't think the storyline is confusing.   It is not being told in a linear fashion, but it is clearly coming together.  It would be one thing if the writers were just throwing crap against the wall like polar bears and smoke monsters with no plans to resolve.   Instead, almost every detail in the show is part of the story.  

 
orgy of unnecessary violence/torture. 
I generally hate excessive violence and gore.  It's why I can't stand Tarantino films with a couple exceptions and have ZERO desire to see any of the SAW films and other gore-porn.

That said, even when I've been uncomfortable watching some scenes in WW, I've never felt it to be gratuitous nor a distraction from the reality at hand, but rather a tool to ground everyone in that this represents PAIN.  Unpleasant and terrible experiences... and then we have to wonder if it's being "experienced" at all, and what that means.  If it is truly felt and these robots suffer, what does that mean when the time has past and they have no recollection of that (not counting those who have begun to remember these instances)? Did it really happen? Does it matter? To that end, how about how we as humans deal with traumatic episodes. We move on, we survive. Some remember, some suffer PTSD, some cope in other ways... but the physical pain, for some, is a temporary and fleeting thing that, in the long run, may not matter - even to "real" humans.

More importantly, MIB's violent actions seem to serve a very specific purpose.  Is it to test the boundaries of morality? Or the boundaries of consciousness? Does MIB inflict true pain, even horror, because that is a mechanism to shock a robot into consciousness?  There's something going on there, and the need to have true pain, emotional and physical, is an essential one in terms of understanding the human condition, aka consciousness.

 
I don't think the technicians work as robots.  They'd have to be horribly designed robots because you'd expect them to have core code that would forbid helping out a Host in Maeve's situation.  And if the solution to that is that their core code is being altered, then you have a ridiculously Rube Goldberg plot where you alter one robot's core code in order to allow that robot to alter another robot's core code. 

 
I don't think the technicians work as robots.  They'd have to be horribly designed robots because you'd expect them to have core code that would forbid helping out a Host in Maeve's situation.  And if the solution to that is that their core code is being altered, then you have a ridiculously Rube Goldberg plot where you alter one robot's core code in order to allow that robot to alter another robot's core code. 
Isn't that how basic computer viruses work?

 
I don't think the technicians work as robots.  They'd have to be horribly designed robots because you'd expect them to have core code that would forbid helping out a Host in Maeve's situation.  And if the solution to that is that their core code is being altered, then you have a ridiculously Rube Goldberg plot where you alter one robot's core code in order to allow that robot to alter another robot's core code. 
WHat if they are running on a different  OS/Software

 
I generally hate excessive violence and gore.  It's why I can't stand Tarantino films with a couple exceptions and have ZERO desire to see any of the SAW films and other gore-porn.

That said, even when I've been uncomfortable watching some scenes in WW, I've never felt it to be gratuitous nor a distraction from the reality at hand, but rather a tool to ground everyone in that this represents PAIN.  Unpleasant and terrible experiences... and then we have to wonder if it's being "experienced" at all, and what that means.  If it is truly felt and these robots suffer, what does that mean when the time has past and they have no recollection of that (not counting those who have begun to remember these instances)? Did it really happen? Does it matter? To that end, how about how we as humans deal with traumatic episodes. We move on, we survive. Some remember, some suffer PTSD, some cope in other ways... but the physical pain, for some, is a temporary and fleeting thing that, in the long run, may not matter - even to "real" humans.

More importantly, MIB's violent actions seem to serve a very specific purpose.  Is it to test the boundaries of morality? Or the boundaries of consciousness? Does MIB inflict true pain, even horror, because that is a mechanism to shock a robot into consciousness?  There's something going on there, and the need to have true pain, emotional and physical, is an essential one in terms of understanding the human condition, aka consciousness.
Bingo:   [SIZE=12pt]https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/5eebky/the_maze_is_all_that_matters_now/[/SIZE]

 
FWIW, this parallels some in the scientific philosophical community who question whether or not time is indeed linear as we experience it, or if indeed, in the universal sense, time does not exist at all. Everything has happened and at the same time will happen... it is merely how we "experience" it as sentient (if not conscious) beings limited by our own sensory and cognitive perception and abilities.
FYP

 
Maybe love, aka willful self sacrifice for the good of another, is the fourth facet of consciousness/freedom.

 
BTW, nice 47 reference in episode 6... 47 of the first gen bots were made by Arnold.

Long history of "47" references in JJ Abrams, many believed traced back to his work on Star Trek and a Pomona College writer from the Next Generation iteration. 47 is our lucky number at Pomona College (I'm an alum), and many think JJA has brought this shtick into his other films. 

Either way, go Sagehens! (Yes, we are the Sagehens. :boxing:  )

On a serious note, I may need to re-rewatch episode 6... seems loaded with some potential clues. 

 
100% the William host. 

Not sure re: Elsie. Wasnt she on the phone w bernard 2 seconds prior?
Just watched that scene again yesterday and nothing definitive to say it's Elsie. Seems that way but LJ is correct in that Bernard was on the phone with her, I think from Theresa's bedroom, moments prior. 

 
Seeing as it APPEARS that Elsie was choked and that Bernard remembers this, there may be an explanation that explains... could Bernard be 'warging' into another bot? He'd witness the killing although he'd not be the one physically doing the choking.

 
Just watched that scene again yesterday and nothing definitive to say it's Elsie. Seems that way but LJ is correct in that Bernard was on the phone with her, I think from Theresa's bedroom, moments prior. 
Maybe there's two Bernards?

 
This has been my take since the first episode.  The whole point of this show, and it was stated in Ford's dialogue in this episode, is that there is not "magical moment" of life and consciousness.  We are in a way, all conscious, and perhaps, not conscious at all... at the existential level, it doesn't matter, except for the fact that WHILE IT IS HAPPENING, it does.

Life is no more than the acts and story of the life itself.  Outside of that, it means nothing, it's "consciousness" and "feeling" are REAL during the experience, and at the same time, perhaps not real in the overall sense of the universe.  Interwoven with this theory is the concept of evolution, something they've hit upon a few times in this series.  Repetition gives way to mistakes, mistakes give way to change, to breaking the loops, to being forced to "think" about things in a new way.  From organic matter, to single cell organisms to simple "creatures" to reptiles, fish, mammals through human "consciousness" - each step is different, and yet we are still all from the same cloth. At what point did "we" become "conscious" or in a way, have we always been (even if the earliest stages of consciousness might be, "ohh, light in that direction, this one cell organism gotta get a move on!") or on the flip side, still are not conscious at all, just fulfilling a number of very complex binary decision steps, providing the illusion of consciousness that does not truly, existentially, exist. 

I'd ask if that all makes sense, but it's not supposed to.  That's why it does. 
I think what you say about mistakes ties in with the maze.  One make decisions to go left or right to get out of a maze.  Teddy said the maze itself is the sum of a man's life.  It probably took the Man in Black a long time to figure out that both white hat and black hat moves are needed.

 
I generally hate excessive violence and gore.  It's why I can't stand Tarantino films with a couple exceptions and have ZERO desire to see any of the SAW films and other gore-porn.

That said, even when I've been uncomfortable watching some scenes in WW, I've never felt it to be gratuitous nor a distraction from the reality at hand, but rather a tool to ground everyone in that this represents PAIN.  Unpleasant and terrible experiences... and then we have to wonder if it's being "experienced" at all, and what that means.  If it is truly felt and these robots suffer, what does that mean when the time has past and they have no recollection of that (not counting those who have begun to remember these instances)? Did it really happen? Does it matter? To that end, how about how we as humans deal with traumatic episodes. We move on, we survive. Some remember, some suffer PTSD, some cope in other ways... but the physical pain, for some, is a temporary and fleeting thing that, in the long run, may not matter - even to "real" humans.

More importantly, MIB's violent actions seem to serve a very specific purpose.  Is it to test the boundaries of morality? Or the boundaries of consciousness? Does MIB inflict true pain, even horror, because that is a mechanism to shock a robot into consciousness?  There's something going on there, and the need to have true pain, emotional and physical, is an essential one in terms of understanding the human condition, aka consciousness.
MIB's interest in the game for 30 years has something to do with Dolores. 

MiB: I need you to find Wyatt.  Wyatt's got what we both want.
Teddy: I'm gonna find Dolores.

 
MIB's interest in the game for 30 years has something to do with Dolores. 

MiB: I need you to find Wyatt.  Wyatt's got what we both want.
Teddy: I'm gonna find Dolores.
Not entirely sure that is true - The Snake Lady told MIB that Wyatt held the key to the Maze - which is really what he is after.  Its unclear if that ultimately involves Delores or not.

 
Not entirely sure that is true - The Snake Lady told MIB that Wyatt held the key to the Maze - which is really what he is after.  Its unclear if that ultimately involves Delores or not.
MIB probably thinks Wyatt is one of the older hosts.

 
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Seeing as it APPEARS that Elsie was choked and that Bernard remembers this, there may be an explanation that explains... could Bernard be 'warging' into another bot? He'd witness the killing although he'd not be the one physically doing the choking.
I REALLY don't like this idea. 

for me, it's always been about the overlap and exchange of "humanity" between humans and the bots. if they're jumping bodies, totally defeats that. also provides writers with a goofy out for them to have what we're seeing be through anybody's eyes. not into it.

 
####'s gonna get crazy when there are bots in the real world.

Unless there already are. 

And also depending upon what you consider as the "real" world to begin with.
Wyatt's men said this world didn't belong to the old settlers or the new, that it belongs to something that has yet to come, that it belong to him.

 
I think Maeve is going to try and shoot her way out... She gets the dude back inside the control area, then they go round up a posse, and take no prisoners. 

 
How did MIB get to the church and what was the point of all those other encounters (Kissy, Armistice, Lawrence, Teddy, etc.) to get him to the church? How exactly did they get him there? This is presuming the end goal or at least the next step of "the maze" was him finding a sentient Dolores. The A to B to C of the MIB quest never made any sense to me and still doesn't.

I'm also really confused about the Teddy story. He thinks he helped "Wyatt" (who is a new backstory btw just introduced by Ford) start a mutiny and kill their entire unit. But then we see him remembering killing all the townsfolk in the same place Dolores killed all the townsfolk. Then Teddy dies, so maybe he doesn't even matter? 

I don't know. I tend to pick things apart too much, and don't like to have to use my imagination to make a story make sense, but the logical progression of this show isn't really working for me right now.

I guess spending too much time online and pretty much knowing that Bernard was a replica of Arnold made that reveal less shocking. I was thinking that Bernard was actually a download of Arnold's conscious. But he was just an imitation. And now he's dead too. I doubt Ford will bring him back. 

With only one episode to go, I'm a bit whatever about this. 

 
I guess spending too much time online and pretty much knowing that Bernard was a replica of Arnold made that reveal less shocking. I was thinking that Bernard was actually a download of Arnold's conscious. But he was just an imitation. And now he's dead too. I doubt Ford will bring him back. 
They didn't show who was shot or which body went 'thud'.  Could've been Clementine

 

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