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***** Official Westworld Thread ***** (1 Viewer)

Personally, I think showing things out of order AND jumping seamlessly between time lines in the middle of a scene (without an obvious sign that it's happening) is kind of bull#### 

I can understand quick flashes of memories and stuff but there needs to be a way for us to piece it together.  To me, that feels cheap

 
Also since I was a bit tired when watching last night.

What was the "explanation"  when Dolores gets shot from the guy on the porch to all of a sudden not shot?  Has to be the timeline thingy no?

 
Personally, I think showing things out of order AND jumping seamlessly between time lines in the middle of a scene (without an obvious sign that it's happening) is kind of bull#### 

I can understand quick flashes of memories and stuff but there needs to be a way for us to piece it together.  To me, that feels cheap




I tend to agree, but I think the setup of the reveries gives them a little license to move freely back and forth because that's what the hosts are doing. 

 
Also since I was a bit tired when watching last night.

What was the "explanation"  when Dolores gets shot from the guy on the porch to all of a sudden not shot?  Has to be the timeline thingy no?
Dolores is obviously experiencing variations on events.  Whether those match up to the broader "2 timelines" theory is an open question.  But I agree with Gator in that I don't think we can assume that Delores showing up at the campsite in distress precludes the earlier timeline.  She obviously experienced two discrete "escape" scenarios.  One where she was shot and another where she wasn't. 

 
Personally, I think the gun she dug up is the gun she stole from the bandit and killed him with.  Then she buried it afterwards.  At some point later, she dug it up.

We're being shown all of this out of order.  If there is one thing the Nolans love to mess with, its timelines.  Always.
Yea, I do not trust the order right now being shown at all.  Not sure that I like it as a storytelling device in this instance. 

 
Dolores is obviously experiencing variations on events.  Whether those match up to the broader "2 timelines" theory is an open question.  But I agree with Gator in that I don't think we can assume that Delores showing up at the campsite in distress precludes the earlier timeline.  She obviously experienced two discrete "escape" scenarios.  One where she was shot and another where she wasn't. 
I think it may be much more than two timelines. 

 
Also since I was a bit tired when watching last night.

What was the "explanation"  when Dolores gets shot from the guy on the porch to all of a sudden not shot?  Has to be the timeline thingy no?
Dolores is obviously experiencing variations on events.  Whether those match up to the broader "2 timelines" theory is an open question.  But I agree with Gator in that I don't think we can assume that Delores showing up at the campsite in distress precludes the earlier timeline.  She obviously experienced two discrete "escape" scenarios.  One where she was shot and another where she wasn't. 
I saw the getting shot by porch-**** guy as being a memory from one of her loops- she remembers it, and then breaks the loop in the current time and gets away.

I don't know that it exludes it, but if her showing up at the campground in the scene following her escape IS a different timeline, I'm not liking the approach to the story-telling.

 
I'm putting my foot down on this... the two logos establish 2 separate timelines:

Timeline \V: William's trip.  Delores in the park already then, but not Teddy.  Also young Ford and Arnold possibly still alive.

Timeline \W/: Old Ford, Wyatt storyline addition, reveries bug, stray guy, cold storage, violent delights, etc.
So Violent Delights is clearly (to me) a voice command just like the "dream" command that knocks hosts out, that triggers the "psychosis.". Ford said yesterday that voice commands are what remain from what Arnold was implementing. 

 
Oh!... in talking about the resort, did somebody use the word "planet" last night? I thought I heard it, but was more tired than normal while watching.

 
I think it may be much more than two timelines. 
For hosts, obviously.  They have thousands.

Again, this feels very Jonathan Nolan.  The narrative is either going to make sense when stitched together or its not, but I have faith because he's a guy who has done these types of tricks before and always tries to give you textual clues that are telling you what is going on (The Prestige and Inception, for example, have characters straight up explaining the narrative techniques to you). 

Similarly in Westworld, when a character says to "go back to the beginning" or something, we should probably take that as a contextual clue that our next scene is from an earlier timeline.   At this stage, I don't think we can piece the timelines together yet, but we know that those types of games are being played just from the Delores scenes. 

 
So, we don't know Arnold's last name yet, do we?

Cause if it is Weber, then Arnold Weber is an anagram from Bernard Lowe.  Which would probably mean Bernard is a robot recreation of Ford's partner.
 
Watched the first two a couple nights back with the Wife. Just uber wow.  We are really in a new golden era of Television / on Demand entertainment, and cross genres at that. GoT, Shameless, Mr. Robot... now this? 

Gonna watch Ep. 3 tonight

 
She's having memories from past loops and they are influencing her actions - being able to go off script and "think" for herself. Like the others. I don't think it is some convoluted parallel universe/time travel/parsed storyline.  :unsure:  

 
She's having memories from past loops and they are influencing her actions - being able to go off script and "think" for herself. Like the others. I don't think it is some convoluted parallel universe/time travel/parsed storyline.  :unsure:  
^  This

 
She's having memories from past loops and they are influencing her actions - being able to go off script and "think" for herself. Like the others. I don't think it is some convoluted parallel universe/time travel/parsed storyline.  :unsure:  
So explain getting shot from the guy on the porch, then not shot

 
So explain getting shot from the guy on the porch, then not shot
That's part of her daily loop.  Happens every day.  But this time, she remembers a previous day.

They also show a different guest standing on the porch.  Different father, etc.  

 
So explain getting shot from the guy on the porch, then not shot
Since she's been through that loop thousands of times, I assume at one point she got shot and she was remembering it. How does the show occurring in multiple timelines explain that any better? Either they are showing two timelines simultaneously where in one she gets shot and one she does not, or she is remembering another incident where she got shot. Given everything we have seen, including the main plot of the show, the bots are starting to remember their pasts when they aren't supposed to. Presumably this will lead to them developing independent thought and will drive their actions to go "off script". Isn't that exactly what we saw in Dolores' scene?

 
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Also since I was a bit tired when watching last night.

What was the "explanation"  when Dolores gets shot from the guy on the porch to all of a sudden not shot?  Has to be the timeline thingy no?
I think the whole 2 timeline theory is b.s.. It's just prior memories. The hosts are all starting to have flashbacks. She had a flashback of that very scene with her getting shot but she wasn't actually shot in the present. All the flashes are just prior memories.

 
I still think he is a bot - based on how he interacts with Ford - and how Ford seems to give him instructions the way he would a bot, plus how the female manager seems to use him as a sex toy.  The call to his wife (interesting side note about how hard it is to get a line out) and the story line with his son - both seem to be leading away from the bot storyline, but then both could be planted memories.  The part I could not figure out - his interactions with Delores - if he is a bot, he is on another level than Delores - maybe the distinction is as simple as his memory is not wiped every day (or Occam's Razor is that he is human).  But, he seems to understand what he is doing is "wrong" yet he continues - which could still be very much an AI trait learned by a bot.  The fact that he senses something "different" about Delores perhaps just means he wants her to help him find a way out of the matrix.
I'll put it in spoilers in case anyone thinks this is giving something away.

 Last night, after Bernard got done talking to someone, I thought it was pretty obvious he rubbed his lip.  And the "previously on" showed the whore rubbing her lip during the discussion of the reveries.  I didn't find this very subtle. 


 
Agree there are multiple timelines, obviously. Don't agree with William being MIB, William is a white hat.  Williams timeline is current and so is Wyatt/Teddy. Train Teddy and some of MIB scenes are in the past that Deloris flashes back to as she gains consciousness.  It always seemed to me that Williams hat choosing and popping into the world as more futuristic than Teddy and others having to trip in on a train.  I also think there may be a future timeline which might explain Deloris hiding and then finding the gun.

I don't think MIB is Arnold, why would a creator be trying to solve the maze?  Bernard being Arnold makes much more sense. Don't have a good idea who MIB is other than an weathly customer as of yet. 

Dont understand Orion yet either and the Church Ford makes trips to ties together Arnold's plan for god talking to their consciousnesses somehow.  And Wyatt being the Devil. Ford talks to a small boy on the way, maybe a connection to Bernard's boy and what happened to Arnold?

Is there something to Teddy fighting Wyatt (the Devil) and the Madam flashing back to seeing Teddys body in the decommissioning pile?  Why is he back/who put him back?  I must have missed something. 

 
shadyridr said:
I think the whole 2 timeline theory is b.s.. It's just prior memories. The hosts are all starting to have flashbacks. She had a flashback of that very scene with her getting shot but she wasn't actually shot in the present. All the flashes are just prior memories.
By definition memories or flashbacks constitutes a different timeline.  We had a whole episode before William and friend showed up. But I get what you are saying. 

 
shadyridr said:
I think the whole 2 timeline theory is b.s.. It's just prior memories. The hosts are all starting to have flashbacks. She had a flashback of that very scene with her getting shot but she wasn't actually shot in the present. All the flashes are just prior memories.
I do not think people are saying there are alternate timelines, just that we are possibly seeing different moments in time with a lot of that being the memory jumps. 

 
Did anyone else notice that that three shots he got in at close range had no effect on the people in masks?
Yes because they are guests
I was thinking that they are hosts, part of Ford's new storyline. We've seen hosts survive fatal attacks a few times now. The stray who woke up after getting his neck sawed into, Meave on the operating table, the host who had milk spilling out of his gun shot wounds. 

The pain or death is programmed. 

 
gerome said:
That's part of her daily loop.  Happens every day.  But this time, she remembers a previous day.

They also show a different guest standing on the porch.  Different father, etc.  
Gotcha makes sense but i think people saying timelines is they are showing past and present intermixed. Not back to the future stuff

 
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Gotcha makes sense but i think people saying timelines is they are showing past and present intermixed. Not back to the future stuff
I think the only "back to the future" theory so far is that Williams is a young MIB.  MIB indicates he's been coming to the park 30 years.  I don't think William is MIB , but, I think their is little doubt that we see what has happened over the 30 years and some of the characters we'll see in more than one timeline. And since the major theme is consciousness there is little doubt some of the characters aren't who they appear to be on the surface. 

 
No talk about the CGI need for a young Hopkins? That blew me away. 
I was intently looking for Ed Harris resemblances, thinking that he's Arnold and that's who they were flashing back to, that I didn't notice it until the last possible second. Then gave it a rewind to check it out. Very well done.

 
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I think the Bernard anagram thing introduces another potential N-30 timeline theory.  Which is that the debriefing interviews we're seeing with Delores are from the N-30 period and that "Bernard" is actually Arnold in those scenes.

We know that Arnold wanted the Hosts to develop consciousness.  We know there was a major incident 30 years ago.  That incident could have been an uprising of self-aware robots. 

There's also a potential hint in Episode 1.  Much of the exposition in the pilot is a conversation between Bernard and Delores.  He tells her, for example, that the Hosts can't hurt the newcomers and exist just to gratify the newcomers, etc.  But when Delores is being debriefed after Abernathy's breakdown, Bernard isn't doing it.  The Security Chief is doing it. 

 
Koya said:
Watched the first two a couple nights back with the Wife. Just uber wow.  We are really in a new golden era of Television / on Demand entertainment, and cross genres at that. GoT, Shameless, Mr. Robot... now this? 

Gonna watch Ep. 3 tonight
TV really is the premium market for story-telling now and has well surpassed cinema. 

Just in the past decade: Sopranos, the Wire, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, GOT, The Americans, and on and on. 

 
I think the Bernard anagram thing introduces another potential N-30 timeline theory.  Which is that the debriefing interviews we're seeing with Delores are from the N-30 period and that "Bernard" is actually Arnold in those scenes.
Agree. I forget what it was the last episode, but those scenes between Delores and Bernard don't seem to be in the current time. 

 
There's also a potential hint in Episode 1.  Much of the exposition in the pilot is a conversation between Bernard and Delores.  He tells her, for example, that the Hosts can't hurt the newcomers and exist just to gratify the newcomers, etc.  But when Delores is being debriefed after Abernathy's breakdown, Bernard isn't doing it.  The Security Chief is doing it. 
Thought that the voice over with Delores in the first episode was with the security guy? Was there a voice difference? 

 
Certainly sounded like Jeffrey Wright (and not Zeppo Hemsworth) to me. 
He was also asking questions that the security guard did not ask at the end of episode 1

"Last question Dolores. What if I told you that you were wrong? That there are no chance encounters? That you and everyone you know were built to gratify the desires of the people who pay to visit your world?" 

 
Obviously a possibility but I'm not seeing any evidence of multiple timelines at this point.

It gets confusing because Dolores and the other hosts are starting to remember past loops, like when she remembers the guy shooting her but runs away instead. 

We've seen flashbacks by the hosts and the humans, but that's it IMO.

 
Obviously a possibility but I'm not seeing any evidence of multiple timelines at this point.

It gets confusing because Dolores and the other hosts are starting to remember past loops, like when she remembers the guy shooting her but runs away instead. 

We've seen flashbacks by the hosts and the humans, but that's it IMO.




Who's flashback was used in the story line that introduced William? 

 
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Who's flashback was used in the story line that introduced William? 
I'm not sure what you mean.

You mean when he and his buddy got to Westworld and he tried on the clothes and all that?

Why would that have to be a flashback?

 
I'll put it in spoilers in case anyone thinks this is giving something away.

 Last night, after Bernard got done talking to someone, I thought it was pretty obvious he rubbed his lip.  And the "previously on" showed the whore rubbing her lip during the discussion of the reveries.  I didn't find this very subtle. 
nice pickup. maybe not subtle- but I totally missed it.

 
I'm not sure what you mean.

You mean when he and his buddy got to Westworld and he tried on the clothes and all that?

Why would that have to be a flashback?




The Westworld sign(logo) was different in the William story line than the \W/ one they have in the current time.

 
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The Westworld sign(logo) was different int eh William story line than the \W/ one they have in the current time.
Ahh I had read something about the different W signs on Reddit, man I'm gonna have to watch all these episodes multiple times!

 

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