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***** Official Westworld Thread ***** (1 Viewer)

If you really want to blow your mind (or smash it with a rock), try tracking the presence or absence of Teddy's bandana through all his scenes.  It comes and goes at will.  It could be prop errors or it could be different days and we just don't know.

 
(HULK) said:
Explain away the two different logos then.
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One pretty simple explanation is that at some point during production, they redesigned the logo they were going to use for the show and never went back and updated that specific set. I mean, the different logos are definitely something to consider, but it does not make N-30 a hard fact. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
TLEF316 said:
Yeah, I realize that's what could have happened,  but if that's what they're doing, that just seems really lazy to me.  Our minds put those 2 scenes together because we have no reason not to. 

If this is the route they're going  (showing stuff out of order, nearly seamless cuts between time lines) this show might not be for me. And if that's the case,  I'll deal with it.
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I think much depends on the reveal.  I do think that the show is providing contextual clues for what its doing.  And I imagine you'll see some of those contextual clues pulled together.  But in any case, there is a point to doing it that way.  The hosts cannot distinguish between the experience of memories and now.  So our confusion, in some way, is meant to mirror Delores's confusion. 
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completely see your point and don't disagree... but kind of agree with TLEF- not into the manipulation if the jump from one scene to the next incorporating one character on essentially the same path (Dolores running away) but on a different timeline.

that said- this show is absolutely for me and that kind of thing is not much to deal with.

 
(HULK) said:
If you really want to blow your mind (or smash it with a rock), try tracking the presence or absence of Teddy's bandana through all his scenes.  It comes and goes at will.  It could be prop errors or it could be different days and we just don't know.
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This show was delayed like a year for reshoots i think. So very likely continuity error. 

 
I'm putting my foot down on this one.  William is not MIB and William's timeline is the current timeline.  Stop all this nonsense.  

 
So they used CGI for young Anthony Hopkins, but they got a guy who looks like Christian Slater's inbred cousin to play young Ed Harris?

 
tonydead said:
I'm putting my foot down on this one.  William is not MIB and William's timeline is the current timeline.  Stop all this nonsense.  
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I agree that William is not MiB.

I disagree and believe they are separate timelines.

I hope all of us are wrong and it ends up being unexpected stuff surprising us.

 
(HULK) said:
I agree that William is not MiB.

I disagree and believe they are separate timelines.

I hope all of us are wrong and it ends up being unexpected stuff surprising us.
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Well we can all agree this is one kick ### tv show!!

You've dissected the logo and all the hidden clues better than I.  I just had the over whelming feeling that William's trip in episode 2 was post all the events in episode 1.  I will be disappointed in myself if I miss read it that badly.  

 
This show has amazing re-watch value so far, especially once you read threads like this here or especially on reddit.

Makes a lot more sense watching once you know a little more of the backstory, timelines, and all that. Definitely helped my wife as well as she hasn't been reading all these fan theories/analysis.

Just about watched all three episodes twice now, highly recommend it if you have the time.

 
(HULK) said:
If you really want to blow your mind (or smash it with a rock), try tracking the presence or absence of Teddy's bandana through all his scenes.  It comes and goes at will.  It could be prop errors or it could be different days and we just don't know.
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So reading this, I'm now fully expecting lots of people to really end up hating this show at the end. Picking it apart so closely is bound to leave tons of unanswered questions or details. 

 
Eh, i dunno.

Yeah, the ending of Lost stunk. But years later, I just remember how awesome it was trying to figure out all the mysteries along the way. This show seems to be similar in that way, which is probably the biggest reason I was hooked from the start.

 
(HULK) said:
If you really want to blow your mind (or smash it with a rock), try tracking the presence or absence of Teddy's bandana through all his scenes.  It comes and goes at will.  It could be prop errors or it could be different days and we just don't know.
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I thought it was obvious these aren't all the same days.

They showed Teddy shot up on a glass cube for goodness sake.

Then he's back in the bar.    

 
TLEF316 said:
Yeah, I realize that's what could have happened,  but if that's what they're doing, that just seems really lazy to me.  Our minds put those 2 scenes together because we have no reason not to. 

If this is the route they're going  (showing stuff out of order, nearly seamless cuts between time lines) this show might not be for me. And if that's the case,  I'll deal with it.
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When she left then farm she was on a horse, when she got to Williams camp she was walking.  There are some clues that perhaps we are seeing different time lines.

 
One thing is for sure: Something happened 30 years ago and the MIB, that has supposedly been coming to the park for 30 years, is linked to that somehow and therefore so is the maze.  A few theories I've read about:

MIB is the original host (possibly the original black gunslinger from the movie) that figured out Arnold's consciousness and also figured out how to pretend to be a guest all this time to either solve or protect the maze and the events that happened 30 years ago.

MIB is actually Peter from the movie that was given full access to the park after (in the movie) the hosts rose up and revolted against the guests and Peter was the lone survivor.  Now Peter (MIB) is trying to solve the maze to expose to the world what happened.

MIB is a wealthy outsider that is connected to Arnold somehow and lives in the park now trying to solve the maze to expose Arnold and the events that happened 30 years ago.

MIB is Arnold born (metaphorically) in the park when the event happened 30 years ago.  Solving the maze may somehow give him eternal life and allow him to leave the park.  
 
Might help to actually watch the original movie.  Looks like a lot of the characters are similar.  Going to watch it tonight I think.  

 
tonydead said:
One thing is for sure: Something happened 30 years ago and the MIB, that has supposedly been coming to the park for 30 years, is linked to that somehow and therefore so is the maze.  A few theories I've read about:

MIB is the original host (possibly the original black gunslinger from the movie) that figured out Arnold's consciousness and also figured out how to pretend to be a guest all this time to either solve or protect the maze and the events that happened 30 years ago.

MIB is actually Peter from the movie that was given full access to the park after (in the movie) the hosts rose up and revolted against the guests and Peter was the lone survivor.  Now Peter (MIB) is trying to solve the maze to expose to the world what happened.

MIB is a wealthy outsider that is connected to Arnold somehow and lives in the park now trying to solve the maze to expose Arnold and the events that happened 30 years ago.

MIB is Arnold born (metaphorically) in the park when the event happened 30 years ago.  Solving the maze may somehow give him eternal life and allow him to leave the park.  
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I'll take#4 

 
tommyboy said:
I'll take#4 
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I think that makes the most sense except, who created the maze?  If Arnold was one of the original creators you would think he'd know the maze unless Ford created the maze to keep him from escaping.  

 
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(HULK) said:
All of that is stuff that is known and correct. My assumptions are as follows:

The malfunction of 30 years ago is probably when Arnold died.  And we're probably going to get a view into that story from William's point of view.  I kinda think William will die in the midst of all of this happening (and that the Teddy host is based on William).  And it will somehow tie together with whatever the MiB is doing 30 years later and the hosts becoming conscious (again maybe?).
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No way William's timeline is 30 years in the past.  Ford said the bots weren't as advanced as they are now and all the ones he has interacted with (especially the hot one in the dressing room) were very advanced.

But what the #### do I know?

 
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Sconch said:
Ummm...not really.
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:lmao:  If only the TV show had pals like Peter and John that go to the park to play cowboys, one that's been there before and one that hasn't, who eventually meet up against  a gunslinger dressed totally in black.  They even had a female robot that was in for repairs, that they couldn't quite fix, and they commented that they were going to "put her back out there" anyways.  She was even wearing a Dolores powder blue dress.

One quote I found interesting was the head scientist (Ford type character) who commented that they don't really understand how all the robots work, that some of the robots were built by other robots.  

 
tonydead said:
:lmao:  If only the TV show had pals like Peter and John that go to the park to play cowboys, one that's been there before and one that hasn't, who eventually meet up against  a gunslinger dressed totally in black.  They even had a female robot that was in for repairs, that they couldn't quite fix, and they commented that they were going to "put her back out there" anyways.  She was even wearing a Dolores powder blue dress.

One quote I found interesting was the head scientist (Ford type character) who commented that they don't really understand how all the robots work, that some of the robots were built by other robots.  
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:shrug:

 
So - I am sure it will be explained in future episodes - but, why did they need to cut the head off the Host, while he was in the park?  Why not put him in sleep mode and just carry him off to be "fixed" behind the scenes?  Yes, I know the sleep mode did not work - but they assumed it would.  So, why not just put him down and carry him back?  That made no sense.  And why didn't they say the magic voice command that puts the bots to sleep?

I do assume that a guest will get killed by an ax at some point, given that they made the point that only certain hosts are programmed to pick one up, eventually one will go against programming and give one guest the Ned Stark experience.

 
Sinn Fein said:
So - I am sure it will be explained in future episodes - but, why did they need to cut the head off the Host, while he was in the park?  Why not put him in sleep mode and just carry him off to be "fixed" behind the scenes?  Yes, I know the sleep mode did not work - but they assumed it would.  So, why not just put him down and carry him back?  That made no sense.  And why didn't they say the magic voice command that puts the bots to sleep?
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I think they cut off his head because that's where the CPU is, which is the only part they need.

And it's a lot easier to carry a 10 pound head back to base than a 200 pound body.

 
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Skoo said:
I think they cut off his head because that's where the CPU is, which is the only part they need.

And it's a lot easier to carry a 10 pound head back to base than a 200 pound body.
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Just going to leave the body for the host buzzards?

Have to get the body back at some point...

 
Skoo said:
Sinn Fein said:
So - I am sure it will be explained in future episodes - but, why did they need to cut the head off the Host, while he was in the park?  Why not put him in sleep mode and just carry him off to be "fixed" behind the scenes?  Yes, I know the sleep mode did not work - but they assumed it would.  So, why not just put him down and carry him back?  That made no sense.  And why didn't they say the magic voice command that puts the bots to sleep?
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I think they cut off his head because that's where the CPU is, which is the only part they need.

And it's a lot easier to carry a 10 pound head back to base than a 200 pound body.
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sounds good. 

I thought it was a protocol for when everything else doesn't work.

I got the impression only a couple people know the magic voice commands... can't remember if the girl was one of them.

 
El Floppo said:
sounds good. 

I thought it was a protocol for when everything else doesn't work.

I got the impression only a couple people know the magic voice commands... can't remember if the girl was one of them.
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She put Delores to sleep after the shootout on main street when they were trying to bring in all the updated hosts.

 
Sinn Fein said:
I do assume that a guest will get killed by an ax at some point, given that they made the point that only certain hosts are programmed to pick one up, eventually one will go against programming and give one guest the Ned Stark experience.
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Which again points to hooded attackers being guests, since they wielded axes.

 
gump said:
Which again points to hooded attackers being guests, since they wielded axes.
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Or free-thinking hosts who have been infected by Wyatt. (The sheriff referred to Wyatt as a "pestilence") Dolores wasn't programmed to be able to pull a trigger, but she managed to cap Rebus in the barn.

 I'm falling into the camp of William not being an earlier t-30 timeline because of the Dolores scene where she rides up and collapses in his arms. I bought into it because of the logo and the differences in his experience on arrival (no Maeve in any of the brothel scenes with William and his BIL. The thinned out crowd at the train station on his arrival, compared to the Teddy arrival scenes. The civil war recruiters vs. the Sheriff's posse recruiting on the street corner. No Teddy in any William scenes.) There's definitely something up- it's not the same park experience that we're watching. But I'd be disappointed in the storytelling if Dolores' arrival at Wiliam's camp was happening in some t-30 timeline, when it's cut to play right after her escape from Rebus trying to rape her in the modern times.

Love the show. Completely sucked in. I'm afraid after Lost, that the reality of the show isn't going to match all the viewer-generated speculation, which has been great fun to read.

 
Sinn Fein said:
She put Delores to sleep after the shootout on main street when they were trying to bring in all the updated hosts.
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She used the handheld to put him into sleep mode. Don't know if there's a difference, but why would there be? I also took the scene as the woodcutter experiencing the same glitch in his programming that he continues to function even after sleep mode's been activated, like Walter after he'd been shot when he goes milk crazy, or Maeve waking up on the Operating table and pulling a scalpel on the techs fixing her.

 
ProstheticRGK said:
She used the handheld to put him into sleep mode. Don't know if there's a difference, but why would there be? I also took the scene as the woodcutter experiencing the same glitch in his programming that he continues to function even after sleep mode's been activated, like Walter after he'd been shot when he goes milk crazy, or Maeve waking up on the Operating table and pulling a scalpel on the techs fixing her.
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Sinn and I were talking about the "magic words" putting people to sleep- I think there's a difference between somebody with the key-code to do that, and somebody else... that was what I was asking about- couldn't remember if the woman tech was on the "inside" of the magic words or not.

as you say- may not mean anything, but for now- especially given the news that Arnold programmed the early bots with speech commands... I think it does.

 
The woman definitely used the magic words to put Dolores to sleep on top of Teddy after the milk shootout.

 
So I was aboard the entire N-30 theory before this episode and I was actually going to post about it after reading some reddit threads and rewatching all the episodes. After this last one, I don't even see how that is plausible. Everything was clearly taking place in the same time period.

This episode definitely needs a rewatch though. There was so much going on and I'm sure I missed a dozen things. I couldn't really follow the MIB's story. He was going to the woman with the snake tattoo to unlock a part of the game that no one has ever been to. But then it seemed to devolve back to either storylines we have already seen or the "new" Wyatt arc that Ford has recently programmed. So I am not really sure what to make of that. 

 
A lot of moving pieces. 

Still not not ready to give up on multiple timelines, but it appears to be one timeline.  Ford likes to play God. Figure maybe Arnold is/was the devil.  or maybe Arnold programmed himself into Hector   

At some point Dolores and William have to cross paths with MIB to compete the maze. 

 
Note to myself for re-watch. William's buddy mentioned something about investing in the park.  Could that investment lead to the positions on the board?  Can't recall if he said they should invest, or "should have invested".  MIB clearly has a #### ton of money, could he be the Board's representative that Ford alludes to?  Or is that William and/or his Buddy?  

Also, the "earth" moving equipment suggests this world has been created, and this is not taking place in the "real" American West.  

Still think Bernard was built by Ford.  

 
Sinn Fein said:
Also, the "earth" moving equipment suggests this world has been created, and this is not taking place in the "real" American West.  
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OMG it's not the real west?!?! Forsooth you jest. 

Obviously someone hasn't seen Wild Wild West starring Kevin Kline

 
Really liked episode 4...Ford going from mysterious to straight up scary. Maeve opening her secret stash to open many instances of remembering the guys behind the scenes. Logan isn't just a park visitor but an investor of some kind. Man in Black is famous (maybe a charitable person) in real life.  I like this story a lot - I wonder if we'll find out that he was Albert/Alfred (drawing a blank, the co-founder)'s brother?The introduction of Wyatt into the story has a greater meaning to snake tattoo lady. --Lots of good stuff.
 
Yankee23Fan said:
Have to see who died on Walking Dead first, but looking forward to this episode....
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opposite for me- watched TWD after. (and in spite of the excitement in the thread... I realized that I didn't much care who got offed).

I usually skip the opening credits/titles... but for some reason got distracted yesterday and noticed the emphasis on the piano. wondering about that... player piano, programmed to knock out a tune, but still playable by hand for improv. dunno- kinda obvious I guess in relation to what seems to be going on in the show.

maeve's 'matrix' moment of realization was interesting too- she can't die, so seize the day and all that (in her daily dying moment). also matrixey, but in a less interesting way is the idolatry/tribal religious-genesis over the haz-mat suited staff. hoping ford's religion theme is more than that.. it seems to be, with the cafe/hacienda scene and literally creating the world.

 
bigmarc27 said:
Really liked episode 4...Ford going from mysterious to straight up scary. Maeve opening her secret stash to open many instances of remembering the guys behind the scenes. Logan isn't just a park visitor but an investor of some kind. Man in Black is famous (maybe a charitable person) in real life.  I like this story a lot - I wonder if we'll find out that he was Albert/Alfred (drawing a blank, the co-founder)'s brother?The introduction of Wyatt into the story has a greater meaning to snake tattoo lady. --Lots of good stuff.
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I'm spacing- who is Logan?

I thought Arnold was Ford's partner... the picture of the two of them shows Arnold much older. did I miss them being brothers?

 
Wyatt is Ford re-creating Arnold as some experiment?  

It is like in Lost where black and white sit back and watch the choices. Ford said how all the guests chose black hat against what he thought the world would be like. So now we have Delores and MIB seeking to complete the maze. William will make the choice between black hat and white. 

 
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