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***** Official Westworld Thread ***** (1 Viewer)

tonydead said:
Not really, she killed all the original bots and Arnold 30 years ago.  Now she kills Ford and an unknown number of guests.
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that was programmed by Arnold.

the point of the discussion i was having with Yankee is that the deal with ford was NOT programmed.  That was the entire basis of the back and forth

 
tommyboy said:
that was programmed by Arnold.

the point of the discussion i was having with Yankee is that the deal with ford was NOT programmed.  That was the entire basis of the back and forth
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Yes, but consciousness relies on the sum of your memories, Arnold said as much to Delores when he drew the pyramid diagram.  If all the sum of your memories were programmed up to the point you gained consciousness doesn't that make your first free will choice predetermined?  A very important point is that consciousness was the programmers end goal. Conversely, had her consciousness been by accident then you wouldn't expect to know, or be able to guide if you wanted to, what her choice was.

 
tonydead said:
Yes, but consciousness relies on the sum of your memories, Arnold said as much to Delores when he drew the pyramid diagram.  If all the sum of your memories were programmed up to the point you gained consciousness doesn't that make your first free will choice predetermined?  A very important point is that consciousness was the programmers end goal. Conversely, had her consciousness been by accident then you wouldn't expect to know, or be able to guide if you wanted to, what her choice was.
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Well, this is the ultimate story the show is telling, no?  What exactly is consciousness and free will?  You could make an argument that it is the humans that are programmed just as much if not more so than the hosts, and that is alluded to in the show. 

 
ironically the woman that was sweet and innnocent, became conscious and then killed a man.

the woman that was a whore and willing to do anything including killing, became conscious and went to find her daughter that she loved.

 
tommyboy said:
ironically the woman that was sweet and innnocent, became conscious and then killed a man.

the woman that was a whore and willing to do anything including killing, became conscious and went to find her daughter that she loved.
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After she had her minions kill several innocent people on her way to escape (which she didn't even follow through with).  Nice!

 
Skoo said:
You mean the show that got more viewers in its first season than any other show in HBO''s history?

Totally understandable he'd want to leave that trainwreck.
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Number of viewers does not equal quality of content. Reruns of Big Bang Theory take up 6 of the top 25 slots for cable tv ratings last week

 
Westworld has been at least somewhat divisive with critics.  It's been an unqualified commercial success for HBO.  And Hopkins has certainly been associated with projects that got far worse critical reception. 

 
tonydead said:
Lots of Emmy talk, people wondering if it can give GOT a run for it's money.
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I could see Thandie Newton warranting some consideration. Same with Jeffery Wright. To me they had the most compelling story lines of the show and they ran with them. So it would be foolish to dismiss their performances.

Hopkins will probably get one because he's Hopkins. Nothing done with the Ford character that's outside of the Hopkins' box. It was cookie cutter stuff for him.

 
JerseyToughGuys said:
What exactly are attempting to argue here? Are you claiming it was a failure for HBO?
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They spent a fortune on it.  I have no idea how the measure success of a subscription contract based service versus a total spend.  Seems difficult from here to judge if they lost money on this first season, but I wouldn't doubt it given the level of detail put into it over a show like "Quarry" or something.

 
If I had to draft acting performances I'd go with Newton over anything the GOT franchise threw out there.  She carried a few episodes in the middle that were pretty boring otherwise, plus she had ZERO to work with in her primary co-stars.  That has to count for something.

 
culdeus said:
They spent a fortune on it.  I have no idea how the measure success of a subscription contract based service versus a total spend.  Seems difficult from here to judge if they lost money on this first season, but I wouldn't doubt it given the level of detail put into it over a show like "Quarry" or something.
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They added another successful show that is a stop gap to an even more successful show. It's a win for HBO and to argue otherwise, well, makes it seem like one is arguing for the sake of it.

 
Blonde snake chick was so many levels of awesome in this episode. The pouting lips when she fed the guy his own finger, the laugh and shocked look when she fired the machine gun. And yeah, the obvious stuff too. 

 
For it being Ford's theatre to issue in a new narrative, it's only fitting he took a bullet to the back of the head during the play.  

 
What an awesome series and the finale did not disappoint. The re-watch with this new perspective is going to just as entertaining. 

 
Was the MIB shot in the arm by Clementine at the end of the finale? It looked like her, but I'm not 100% certain.

 
So if Delores didn't take the turn to consciousness, would Ford still have retired?  What would have been his next step?

 
Wife and kids were gone for a week so I binged watched this.  Haven't read the thread, but that was a total mind #### and I probably need to watch it again. 

 
Psychopav said:
So if Delores didn't take the turn to consciousness, would Ford still have retired?  What would have been his next step?
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See, this confused me.  Did she really take the turn to consciousness? How do we know? Wasn't she programmed to be Wyatt and basically kill her master?

 
Zow said:
See, this confused me.  Did she really take the turn to consciousness? How do we know? Wasn't she programmed to be Wyatt and basically kill her master?
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I don't know if we would ever know for sure - but the clues throughout the season suggest she attained a level of consciousness.  

I think the basic component of consciousness was the ability to learn from past experiences, and "recognize" that the inner voice telling you what to do is your own voice.  Throughout the season we saw Delores recall past experiences - and make decisions based on those past experiences.  We also saw a few times where she recognized herself in the scene - and I interpret those scenes as her starting to recognize that the inner voice was her own - not Arnold's.  In the end, she passes that threshold - and states clearly that the voice driving her actions is her own voice - thus she is now in control.

:shrug:

 
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