Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
***** Official Westworld Thread ***** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Rohn Jambo
- Start date
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
shadyridr
Footballguy
Not in the minority. I found it incredibly boring. Felt like I was watching Dances with Wolves.
shadyridr
Footballguy
At least Eleven's Road Trip story gave us some back story on a main character. This episode gave us a back story of an ancillary character that nobody even knew their name.
Definitely a "filler" episode. But it further explains Ghost Nation's awakening (not some rouge programming by Elsie or someone else) and the interactions with Ford explains how Ford found out about Arnold's maze. Ford knows everything about everyone except MIB and Maeve, both of whom are seriously injured right now, because who doesn't like rooting for an underdog.
packersfan
Footballguy
Yeah that's a good point as well. If the plan was to make Ghost Nation and Ake a significant part of this story it should've been done sooner. Throwing them into the mix in a huge way now felt, for me, really coming out of left field. Yeah they've been around but like you said they had been ancillary and now they're this huge thing or possibly this huge thing. Felt jarring and again with only 3 hours left it felt really out of place for me. There was no buildup to their current level of importance. It just happened. I wouldn't view that as good storytelling. If I just watched this episode without incorporating it into this time of Season 2 I'd likely really enjoy it. But my issue here is primarily about timing and presenting a major development in the story that hadn't been given proper buildup.shadyridr said:
AcerFC
Footballguy
Can you tell me what Arnolds maze actually is. And how did Ford know that it was being hidden inside of scalps
There are a lot of meanings and parallels, but, the most fundamental is that Arnold wanted the hosts to be free and Ford wants the host to learn to make decisions (and Delos wants to learn learn about the human make-up to use host technology to find immortality). Arnold left the maze as a clue when he killed himself in hopes it would help them become free, we saw Ake find the maze when he traveled back to where Arnold was killed and it eventually helped him gain consciousness and got him searching for a way out of Westworld. We also saw Ford interact with Ake to find out what it meant when the symbol was turning up all over the place. As far as why it was hidden under scalps, probably because it was meant for Ghost Nation and that's where they would most likely find it before anyone else.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I think Season 1 revealed that William was mistaken in viewing Arnold's maze as a map that would lead to a certain physical place or destination. Rather, as Ford told William (speaking through one of the bots), the maze isn't for William or for humans. It is more of an allegory that symbolizes a path the hosts have to follow to achieve the state of self-awareness.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
I personally liked the mystique of GN up to this point and enjoyed how they told that story in full. If that had been run over the course of S2, or even since sometime in S1, it wouldn't have had the same effect. They've been in some important scenes throughout the show, some of which have been shown multiple times. I'm not sure it all works if the last episode was strung out in between the other instances of GN. We'll know more when we see where it all goes going forward.
tommyboy
Footballguy
its an allegory. there has to be some stimulus that would create a thought process within the robots outside of the computer programs that are running them. The maze is just the writers way of simplifyng the visual representation of that idea for TV/film purposes. in reality i'm sure that concept would be much more complex than a wooden toy left on a counter
flapgreen
Footballguy
flapgreen
Footballguy
You guys don't get it. It's telling a story piece by piece. Everything can't be revealed at once or it wouldn't have the same effect. You think it would be better revealing more earlier. It wouldn't.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Looks like we have different paths to "consciousness" on the show:
Dolores - she was programmed from the start to achieve consciousness
Maeve - she was coded to assume control of her destiny -- originally to leave West World for the outside, but then used the advances in her attributes to make her own choice
Ake - "chaos theory" life finds a way. Never intended to achieve consciousness, just sort of randomly stumbled into it over the years.
I think Teddy will be an interesting case - he obviously ends up dead, and the show seems to have Dolores not trusting him - because he is beginning to make his own choices.
We also have the reverse track - person-to-Bot:
Ford - I assumed he was hosted inside the cradle, not sure where he has backed himself up - was he also in Abernathy? He only exists in code - no interest in a physical presence.
Bernard - an improved version of the Delos model? We know he was tested continuously with Dolores - so seems to follow the same tract as James Delos (only we know that failed right before MIB entered the park in Season 1).
MIB (or MIB daughter?) - clearly his path will take him back to his wife's death, not sure if he is real or Bot at this stage. Certainly led to believe he is real - but with Ford able to speak to him at will, almost wonder if Ford is speaking via the cradle - thus speaking in code to MIB-bot. Bots need to suffer before they become "real" - so maybe this is all creating a sense of loss in MIB-bot
Dolores - she was programmed from the start to achieve consciousness
Maeve - she was coded to assume control of her destiny -- originally to leave West World for the outside, but then used the advances in her attributes to make her own choice
Ake - "chaos theory" life finds a way. Never intended to achieve consciousness, just sort of randomly stumbled into it over the years.
I think Teddy will be an interesting case - he obviously ends up dead, and the show seems to have Dolores not trusting him - because he is beginning to make his own choices.
We also have the reverse track - person-to-Bot:
Ford - I assumed he was hosted inside the cradle, not sure where he has backed himself up - was he also in Abernathy? He only exists in code - no interest in a physical presence.
Bernard - an improved version of the Delos model? We know he was tested continuously with Dolores - so seems to follow the same tract as James Delos (only we know that failed right before MIB entered the park in Season 1).
MIB (or MIB daughter?) - clearly his path will take him back to his wife's death, not sure if he is real or Bot at this stage. Certainly led to believe he is real - but with Ford able to speak to him at will, almost wonder if Ford is speaking via the cradle - thus speaking in code to MIB-bot. Bots need to suffer before they become "real" - so maybe this is all creating a sense of loss in MIB-bot
Probably not the best description, but, I understand why some people didn't think it was the best. It didn't move the story forward much, more "filling" in some of the blanks.
I'm not so sure Dolores isn't being controlled by Ford (not really fully awake).Looks like we have different paths to "consciousness" on the show:
Dolores - she was programmed from the start to achieve consciousness
Maeve - she was coded to assume control of her destiny -- originally to leave West World for the outside, but then used the advances in her attributes to make her own choice
Ake - "chaos theory" life finds a way. Never intended to achieve consciousness, just sort of randomly stumbled into it over the years.
I think Teddy will be an interesting case - he obviously ends up dead, and the show seems to have Dolores not trusting him - because he is beginning to make his own choices.
We also have the reverse track - person-to-Bot:
Ford - I assumed he was hosted inside the cradle, not sure where he has backed himself up - was he also in Abernathy? He only exists in code - no interest in a physical presence.
Bernard - an improved version of the Delos model? We know he was tested continuously with Dolores - so seems to follow the same tract as James Delos (only we know that failed right before MIB entered the park in Season 1).
MIB (or MIB daughter?) - clearly his path will take him back to his wife's death, not sure if he is real or Bot at this stage. Certainly led to believe he is real - but with Ford able to speak to him at will, almost wonder if Ford is speaking via the cradle - thus speaking in code to MIB-bot. Bots need to suffer before they become "real" - so maybe this is all creating a sense of loss in MIB-bot
There is a copy of Ford in Bernard's pocket.
I like your take on Bernard and agree MIB is still, somehow, the biggest mystery.
jamny
Footballguy
I've seen that mentioned a couple of times, not sure if it's just by you or others as well, but do we know that to be the case? I thought Bernard took that orb to put Ford into the Cradle. and Ford has escaped the Cradle by somehow joining himself with Bernard's consciousness. He put the orb in his pocket before last season's finale. It would be hard to believe it would still be in there after all he's been through since. With the flashbacks he's had seeing himself put it in there, you would think he would check his pocket to see if he still had it.
jamny
Footballguy
Was Ake speaking to Maeve through her daughter the whole time? They show Maeve promising her daughter that no one will come between them and right after Ake says to the daughter "But it was a promise you couldn't keep" Not "she" couldn't keep. I know they show the connection at the end but didn't consider it was happening the whole time.
I thought this episode was well timed for the season. I guess they could have written it in earlier or stretched it out but I enjoyed it right where it was. My favorite is still the James Delos episode, I prefer mind-blowing over sentimental, but this was still very good.
I thought this episode was well timed for the season. I guess they could have written it in earlier or stretched it out but I enjoyed it right where it was. My favorite is still the James Delos episode, I prefer mind-blowing over sentimental, but this was still very good.
shadyridr
Footballguy
jamny
Footballguy
So when the daughter brought him water, was it Maeve controlling her? He said "you saved me" or something like that.
Last edited by a moderator:
shadyridr
Footballguy
The daughter saved him in the past before Maeve could control anybody. Guess he was talking to both of them.
It was probably just me and I'm probably wrong, lol. I did some reading around and found this:
I think "implies" is a pretty good word because I kept waiting to see what happened with the pearl not picking up on the implication.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Everyone is a robot lols
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
I don't think I will watch another season. Any show that I need to watch a You Tube video explaining what I missed (which is usually a lot) is a little too much work.
The story is moderately interesting but they aren't executing it that well. Lot of filler and confusion all around.
The story is moderately interesting but they aren't executing it that well. Lot of filler and confusion all around.
packersfan
Footballguy
After last week's yawner this was fantastic. Season finale looks like it's gonna be amazing.
(HULK)
(Smash)
I don't think his daughter was one and I don't think he was one. He was just hoping he could abdicate responsibility for what he had done.
packersfan
Footballguy
They showed that William was "Clear" (i.e. human). If there's a change and he's revealed to be a host it pretty much destroys the impact of him killing his daughter. That moment worked so well because it was about what little grasp he had on humanity being obliterated.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
If you want to get entirely conspiratorial...… those meters are Delos tech.
Delos tech is controlled by Ford as we have seen time and time again.
The suicide of William's wife happened before season 1 started. Meaning that Ford clearly had much of this endgame planned already by then, with William at the center. Protecting William at all costs until he learns the lesson would fit into that narrative.
While I am still thinking through all the possibilities of this season leading up to next week, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch, nor a great surprise, to see the characters all get into the final room of the data storage center where the humans are stored and find a young William there, trapped in some kind of stasis and it turns out that Ed Harris/William is really a host; the culmination of the technology to turn humans into hosts. And that the testing he was doing to James Delos was actually the control of testing him - no different than Delores being the tester of Bernard, and not the other way around.
I will say this - I've loved this season. Probably more than the first. But I get the growing objections from people in here that are saying enough is enough already, answer something. I think they have answered a lot within the context of the story I think they are trying to tell, and I am willing to give them a wide berth to get to their end game, but by the same token, there does need to be a significant leap in understanding how everything this year fit into the game Ford started last year at Williams dinner, leading us to this point. If they somehow have next week being an hour and 15 minutes of the various groups that are left getting to the human mainframe, and then 10 minutes of cinematography of that moment, with a cliffhanger ending... I will be pissed.
I don't need a bludgeon to tell me this story, but I do need some kind of reward for taking part in it.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Yeah, that would really suck. I ended up hating that show and left it, never going back. I hope this one doesn't get there, I really don't.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
jamny
Footballguy
packersfan
Footballguy
The guess seems to be trying to find out if he's a host. It's the same thing Bernard did when he tried to get Ford out of his head.
tommyboy
Footballguy
tommyboy
Footballguy
tommyboy
Footballguy
i am perfectly happy with this season and think its better than the first. Which is high praise. Only complaint is not enough nudity
