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***official wnba thread*** (1 Viewer)

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The attendance growth year over year is fantastic.

However, I am a bit surprised that even with so much incredible press and hype, the league is still averaging under 10k. They are effectively averaging the same numbers they did back in the first 6 seasons of the league.

As always, we need time to figure out what is happening. If this is the start of a growth profile that will continue in years to come, that is very positive.

If instead this spike is momentary and only lasts a year or two with no further growth, the league won't be any better off than it has been during various times in the leagues history.

I still have no guesses where this ends up.
And to give this some perspective. With less than 1/100th the hype and attention the WNBA is enjoying, the NWSL averaged 10,432 last season.
I don't know much about NWSL. I've tried to like soccer, but just haven't.

I think some of the WNBA attendance issues are being an inside sport played in the middle of the Summer. Outside of places with insane heat, I think people generally like to be outside during the Summer.
LIke how baseball fans almost universally prefer open air over a dome.

I'm sure there are plenty of other factors though.
 
Man, Seattle is on a heater.

They got Nneka back last night, and proceeded to get go into Vegas and really sort of dominate the back-to-back Champs from start to finish. About as big a win as you can get. Like dominating Alabama in Tuscaloosa in Saban's heyday.

If anybody outside of Vegas, NY, or Connecticut could win it all, Seattle has to be up there. They've got the stud veteran backcourt with Diggans and Lloyd, Nneka being the ultimate veteran badass, but now Ezi is starting to figure it out. A long, lanky Aussie project in the making, and it's definitely working. She's awesome.
 
So, take this from someone that, from early childhood to young adulthood, consumed more professional wrestling media (from the weekly shows to PPVs to magazines and the old newsletters) than most would think humanly possible, and one that still hasn't 100% ruled out Kerrigan-Harding being a work to blast off struggling TV ratings (granted, I'm 99.9% of the way there --- another decade of nothing coming out and I'll probably go ahead and finally abandon that conspiracy theory).

The Clark stuff just gets my old kayfabe spidey-sense tingling. She doesn't seem to be a natural babyface in demeanor and even got a bit of heat during the NCAA tourney for being a Luka-ish whiner and complainer. Is it possible the Powers That Be are running the timeless "old guard won't accept the new superstar" bit to keep her over with the casual fans as well as slowing the burn and elongating her ascent timeline?

I don't think I believe my speculation to be true, but coming off an afternoon of golf, whiskey and edibles, I'm not sure that it isn't possible.
 
Going somewhat back to the style of play discussion, it’s just a simple truth that people largely want to see the flashier, faster paced, high powered offensive players and style of play and reward that with viewing dollars.

Every kid growing up going out to hoop in the driveway wanted to be Jordan. Nobody was out there pretending they were Patrick Ewing. Everyone was Kobe, not Tim Duncan. Everyone was Curry, not Dwight Howard. The NBA has made rule changes that may make a lot of us old heads grumble but the NBA did that because that’s what people want to see and what makes them money.

It would be foolish to think that the public wants to see anything different when it comes to women’s basketball and so far the viewing numbers and discussion surrounding Clark seems to bear that out.

The Fever really need to try to find a big that’s much closer to Brink than Boston. It’s a shame because Boston is a good player for the traditional WNBA style, but she’s not a great match to Clark. Clark needs a big that can hold her own underneath defensively, but can spread the floor on the offensive end and move well without the ball. Boston isn’t that player.

And that sort of encapsulates that push back by WNBA veterans who have had success in the old style. Because yes, Clark is likely to bring more money to the league. But if teams look to move more and more to her style, those older style players are going to risk losing their jobs in a small league with small rosters. So they’re more likely to find themselves unemployed than see larger salaries if Clark’s style of play becomes the dominant style. Just like NBA teams aren’t out there looking for the next Patrick Ewing anymore.
 
Someone should direct WNBA to this thread so @pollardsvision can get a job. He is a waaaay better promoter than anyone they have right now.
I'll do what I can to spread the good news. T
It's funny. I've made 2 recent discoveries in my mid-40's that are "I had no idea what I'd been missing out on all these years" revelations.

WNBA and Tinned Fish.

So, I've been here before.
And tinned fish doesn't have a Caitlin Clark.
 
Going somewhat back to the style of play discussion, it’s just a simple truth that people largely want to see the flashier, faster paced, high powered offensive players and style of play and reward that with viewing dollars.

Every kid growing up going out to hoop in the driveway wanted to be Jordan. Nobody was out there pretending they were Patrick Ewing. Everyone was Kobe, not Tim Duncan. Everyone was Curry, not Dwight Howard. The NBA has made rule changes that may make a lot of us old heads grumble but the NBA did that because that’s what people want to see and what makes them money.

It would be foolish to think that the public wants to see anything different when it comes to women’s basketball and so far the viewing numbers and discussion surrounding Clark seems to bear that out.

The Fever really need to try to find a big that’s much closer to Brink than Boston. It’s a shame because Boston is a good player for the traditional WNBA style, but she’s not a great match to Clark. Clark needs a big that can hold her own underneath defensively, but can spread the floor on the offensive end and move well without the ball. Boston isn’t that player.

And that sort of encapsulates that push back by WNBA veterans who have had success in the old style. Because yes, Clark is likely to bring more money to the league. But if teams look to move more and more to her style, those older style players are going to risk losing their jobs in a small league with small rosters. So they’re more likely to find themselves unemployed than see larger salaries if Clark’s style of play becomes the dominant style. SheJust like NBA teams aren’t out there looking for the next Patrick Ewing anymore.
That's interesting.
I do enjoy that the WNBA has a role for traditional bigs, but they do have a lot of bigs that can move and spread the floor.

Right now, the best 2 players in the league are bigs. A'ja and Breanna.
A'ja is a bit more traditional, but not too much. She dominates in the post, but she's a fast hell, has great ball-handling for a big, and is a great mid-range shooter starting to fire up 3's every once in a while.
Breanna is basically a 6'4 guard that knows how to play in the post. She's the sort of player NBA teams dream of, probably.
Even Jonquel Jones playing with Breanna. She's 6'6" and a good 3-point shooter.

And then there's Napheesa Collier (again, please watch her). She's only 6'1". And she's the 3rd best big in the game right now. She is incredibly effective at creating space in the post to make plays against taller/longer players, and she is also deadly in the mid-range. Developing as a 3-point shooter.

And then there's Alyssa Thomas who isn't necessarily a big, but sort of a "point forward". She's a triple-double machine. Watching her and Bonner run the floor is awesome.

Then there's the Phoenix Mercury paying homage to the Nash era Suns right now out of necessity. They only have one big (Griner) and she's hurt at least another couple of weeks. They've been jacking up 3's at an historic pace.

I agree with you that I worry about Boston's fit with Clark. Boston is certainly a great player, but definitely the more traditional feed in the post and let go to work style big.

I'm also curious about how it will work with the Chicago Sky. They just drafted 2 really good traditional bigs. I saw them get in a rhythm on the court together for the first time against the Mystics, and the gilmpses seemed awesome. Running the court well together and moving the ball. But it's hard to say exactly how it will look long-term.

I certainly agree about the NBA and how/why the guards/wings became/are far more marketable than the traditional centers. I think those similarities mostly hold for the WNBA too.

The one difference is see with the WNBA is the lack of dunking. Jordan definitely wouldn't have become that level of star without dunking.

Jacking up logo 3's will always be something fans love. But I don't see the star power ever being completely dominated by the guards/wings without the dunking. (Talking league-wide. Obviously, Clark is a unique case).

And again, the league does have and is developing more and more skilled/floor spacing bigs.
 
On the topic of Olympic "snubs", check out the history of Nneka and the Olympics. It's so wild you couldn't even make it up.

Quick summary.
Drafted #1 overall in 2012. ROY, of course.
2016? WNBA League MVP, and won the WNBA Championship.
8-time All-Star, the best teammate and leader that a basketball player could possibly be.
Also played and dominated for Team USA on a number of occasions.

Wanna take a guess on how many Olympic rosters she's made in this amazing career that's spanned 4 Olympic games?

This article is from 2020 when she got snubbed again Everything remains the same for 2024, of course.
 
Not sure when the last WNBA story was in the BBC:

The WNBA just like the women's college and HS games is slower, that leads to more physical play. Like the old NBA when they would walk the ball up and pound it in. Clark like Curry is changing the game by launching 3s from 5 ft behind the arc.

Both my daughters played college volleyball, my older one was really good in BB. In HS she made varsity in BB as a soph and when i was watching the games I thought she was going to get killed. I hated when she got a breakaway for a layup as I knew a hard foul from behind was coming, and after every rebound there was a scrum. The female players are just not as athletic and seem to get into many clumsier type collisions.

One game she got a rebound and was basically body slammed from behind. Being leaner she was not built for female BB. It was to the point I loved when they took her out of the game. When the season ended I said you are done with this sport and she agreed.
That sounds like quality product. Right up there with tinned fish.
 
Not sure when the last WNBA story was in the BBC:

The WNBA just like the women's college and HS games is slower, that leads to more physical play. Like the old NBA when they would walk the ball up and pound it in. Clark like Curry is changing the game by launching 3s from 5 ft behind the arc.

Both my daughters played college volleyball, my older one was really good in BB. In HS she made varsity in BB as a soph and when i was watching the games I thought she was going to get killed. I hated when she got a breakaway for a layup as I knew a hard foul from behind was coming, and after every rebound there was a scrum. The female players are just not as athletic and seem to get into many clumsier type collisions.

One game she got a rebound and was basically body slammed from behind. Being leaner she was not built for female BB. It was to the point I loved when they took her out of the game. When the season ended I said you are done with this sport and she agreed.
That sounds like quality product. Right up there with tinned fish.
"Only the finest fillets..."
 
Not sure when the last WNBA story was in the BBC:

The WNBA just like the women's college and HS games is slower, that leads to more physical play. Like the old NBA when they would walk the ball up and pound it in. Clark like Curry is changing the game by launching 3s from 5 ft behind the arc.

Both my daughters played college volleyball, my older one was really good in BB. In HS she made varsity in BB as a soph and when i was watching the games I thought she was going to get killed. I hated when she got a breakaway for a layup as I knew a hard foul from behind was coming, and after every rebound there was a scrum. The female players are just not as athletic and seem to get into many clumsier type collisions.

One game she got a rebound and was basically body slammed from behind. Being leaner she was not built for female BB. It was to the point I loved when they took her out of the game. When the season ended I said you are done with this sport and she agreed.
That sounds like quality product. Right up there with tinned fish.

Tinned smoked mussels on crackers taste good when hungover!
 
Not sure when the last WNBA story was in the BBC:

The WNBA just like the women's college and HS games is slower, that leads to more physical play. Like the old NBA when they would walk the ball up and pound it in. Clark like Curry is changing the game by launching 3s from 5 ft behind the arc.

Both my daughters played college volleyball, my older one was really good in BB. In HS she made varsity in BB as a soph and when i was watching the games I thought she was going to get killed. I hated when she got a breakaway for a layup as I knew a hard foul from behind was coming, and after every rebound there was a scrum. The female players are just not as athletic and seem to get into many clumsier type collisions.

One game she got a rebound and was basically body slammed from behind. Being leaner she was not built for female BB. It was to the point I loved when they took her out of the game. When the season ended I said you are done with this sport and she agreed.
That sounds like quality product. Right up there with tinned fish.
"Only the finest fillets..."
I still haven't had their kippers, but IMO, Crown Prince hast the best entry-level/value tinned fish products.

King Oscar is great, but I much prefer pilchards

Crown Prince oysters in olive oil are such a great product. The only cheap oysters I know of that come in olive oil and aren't from China. I order them by the case.

And if you want a cheap low sodium sardine in water, there's are unbeatable.
 
I do not know if she is one of the best 12 women for the Olympic team but what I do know is it appears the WNBA hates money. Tremendous opportunity to grow the game and sell 50 million jerseys lost here. Kind of crazy really.
What's crazier is that if you look at the seasons both are having, Clark has been a little better than Taurasi, yet the latter made it. If Clark isn't quite good enough to have made the Olympic team, then Taurasi isn't good enough anymore to have made it. Now, I get that she's a legacy pick, almost like a token invite ("you're not that great anymore, but you used to be, so you can come along"), but the optics are interesting to say the least. The WNBA definitely has their collective heads up their behinds.
 
:lmao:

I knew who this was before I opened it.

Anecdotally, women are far more violent towards each other on athletic fields than men. I still distinctly recall the displeasure of trying to referee (while hungover) a girls charity powder puff game in law school. It was basically a ufc fight every time the ball was snapped.
 
I do not know if she is one of the best 12 women for the Olympic team but what I do know is it appears the WNBA hates money. Tremendous opportunity to grow the game and sell 50 million jerseys lost here. Kind of crazy really.
What's crazier is that if you look at the seasons both are having, Clark has been a little better than Taurasi, yet the latter made it. If Clark isn't quite good enough to have made the Olympic team, then Taurasi isn't good enough anymore to have made it. Now, I get that she's a legacy pick, almost like a token invite ("you're not that great anymore, but you used to be, so you can come along"), but the optics are interesting to say the least. The WNBA definitely has their collective heads up their behinds.
No doubt Taurasi is a legacy pick.

I think that's a fairly common thing and something we wouldn't have a problem with in most sports.

And that legacy?
Taurasi became the highest scoring player in WNBA history..........6 years ago.
And here she is at age 42, 3rd in the league on 3PM per game (behind Plum and McBride) hitting them at a pretty good clip.

When she retires, her records will seem as unreal as Wayne Gretzky's did.

Pretty hard to fault anybody making a legacy pick on Taurasi.

It seems like in most sports leagues, respecting the game and those that built it is generally seen as honorable.

Maybe I'm just old school and out of touch with today's youths.
 
I do not know if she is one of the best 12 women for the Olympic team but what I do know is it appears the WNBA hates money. Tremendous opportunity to grow the game and sell 50 million jerseys lost here. Kind of crazy really.
What's crazier is that if you look at the seasons both are having, Clark has been a little better than Taurasi, yet the latter made it. If Clark isn't quite good enough to have made the Olympic team, then Taurasi isn't good enough anymore to have made it. Now, I get that she's a legacy pick, almost like a token invite ("you're not that great anymore, but you used to be, so you can come along"), but the optics are interesting to say the least. The WNBA definitely has their collective heads up their behinds.
No doubt Taurasi is a legacy pick.

I think that's a fairly common thing and something we wouldn't have a problem with in most sports.

And that legacy?
Taurasi became the highest scoring player in WNBA history..........6 years ago.
And here she is at age 42, 3rd in the league on 3PM per game (behind Plum and McBride) hitting them at a pretty good clip.

When she retires, her records will seem as unreal as Wayne Gretzky's did.

Pretty hard to fault anybody making a legacy pick on Taurasi.

It seems like in most sports leagues, respecting the game and those that built it is generally seen as honorable.

Maybe I'm just old school and out of touch with today's youths.

She's a coach on the floor. If anybody here has any hisotry of coaching in sports you know how valuable having somebody like Taurasi is to your team. Some players are important for more than what they can contribute athletically. Very very very few are natural leaders. She's a leader. That's why you keep her on the Olympic team.
 
I do not know if she is one of the best 12 women for the Olympic team but what I do know is it appears the WNBA hates money. Tremendous opportunity to grow the game and sell 50 million jerseys lost here. Kind of crazy really.
What's crazier is that if you look at the seasons both are having, Clark has been a little better than Taurasi, yet the latter made it. If Clark isn't quite good enough to have made the Olympic team, then Taurasi isn't good enough anymore to have made it. Now, I get that she's a legacy pick, almost like a token invite ("you're not that great anymore, but you used to be, so you can come along"), but the optics are interesting to say the least. The WNBA definitely has their collective heads up their behinds.
No doubt Taurasi is a legacy pick.

I think that's a fairly common thing and something we wouldn't have a problem with in most sports.

And that legacy?
Taurasi became the highest scoring player in WNBA history..........6 years ago.
And here she is at age 42, 3rd in the league on 3PM per game (behind Plum and McBride) hitting them at a pretty good clip.

When she retires, her records will seem as unreal as Wayne Gretzky's did.

Pretty hard to fault anybody making a legacy pick on Taurasi.

It seems like in most sports leagues, respecting the game and those that built it is generally seen as honorable.

Maybe I'm just old school and out of touch with today's youths.

She's a coach on the floor. If anybody here has any hisotry of coaching in sports you know how valuable having somebody like Taurasi is to your team. Some players are important for more than what they can contribute athletically. Very very very few are natural leaders. She's a leader. That's why you keep her on the Olympic team.
Meh. Do you really think this team, and these players need that? Seems overkill.

She probably makes it on skill alone, but those kind of intangibles are overrated in this type of competition
 
Excited to catch up on this Dream-Sky game.

Cardoso getting her first WNBA start. And she gets the opportunity to go toe-to-toe with the legendary Tina Charles (#4 scorer in WNBA history).
 
To be fair, this team doesn't "need" anything.

They're going to dominate because the WNBA/US has the best only basketball players in the world.

Fixed.
I don't think that's true. These players play all over the world in the off-season to make some extra money.

But if you mean that as some sort of slight, you're a fan of American football, right? (not that any of that is played in Charlottle, NC these days)
 
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Excited to catch up on this Dream-Sky game.

Cardoso getting her first WNBA start. And she gets the opportunity to go toe-to-toe with the legendary Tina Charles (#4 scorer in WNBA history).
Sky came out flat, got punched in the face. But they are fighting back. That's becoming a theme this season.

First half, the Dream are just a veteran team taking these Chicago kids to school.Tina putting those rookies on block and showing them how it's done. Allisha Gray is awesome, and Rhyne Howard is going to be a star one day.

Sky showing fight, as they always do, even if they don't win (which I don't think they will). Reese having fun with the back and forth with the vets.

But so far a big step for Cardoso. She's still on a minutes restriction. It's rough sometimes, but she's got some great glimpses.

And I think Izzy Harrison is going to be big. She's coming off a major injury. She doesn't quite have it together yet, but in moments, it's pretty awesome.
 
I do not know if she is one of the best 12 women for the Olympic team but what I do know is it appears the WNBA hates money. Tremendous opportunity to grow the game and sell 50 million jerseys lost here. Kind of crazy really.
What's crazier is that if you look at the seasons both are having, Clark has been a little better than Taurasi, yet the latter made it. If Clark isn't quite good enough to have made the Olympic team, then Taurasi isn't good enough anymore to have made it. Now, I get that she's a legacy pick, almost like a token invite ("you're not that great anymore, but you used to be, so you can come along"), but the optics are interesting to say the least. The WNBA definitely has their collective heads up their behinds.

I don't really follow this but it could be relevant that Taurasi has played in multiple Olympics and other FIBA events for the US and has played professionally many seasons abroad, winning multiple Euroleague championships for Russian and Turkish clubs with various other individual/MVP accolades. Meanwhile, Clark has never played internationally and her only US National Team experience is with the Juniors.

From her wiki: "In March 2024, Clark was one of 14 players, and the only college player, to receive an invitation from the United States national team to the final training camp for the 2024 Summer Olympics. However, she was unable to attend this camp as it occurred during the same week that she was playing with Iowa in the Final Four of the 2024 NCAA tournament. Due to Clark's absence at this camp, the Olympics selection committee stated they would follow her performance in the early 2024 WNBA season to help determine their final 2024 Olympic roster for Team USA."
 
Ended up just being a good old country *** whipping for the Sky. I know it's going to be good for them. T-Spoon will make sure of it.

Clark and Reese, both, what's fun about them is that they are both taking their lumps, at times getting their *** kicked by the vets, and loving it and are committed to getting better.
 
Not to ignore Brink. Same deal for her. I'm just an East Coast guy so it takes a minute to get to the west coast games.
Brink is taking her lumps and loving it too.

And we can never ignore Hamby. Hamby is a stud that just got back from having a baby. She comes back to a rebuilding team that just lost Nneka.

She comes back to "hey man, we just brought in a couple of kids in Brink and Rickea not to mention Burrell, and we need you to show them the way"

She's doing it and it's beautiful.
 
I do not know if she is one of the best 12 women for the Olympic team but what I do know is it appears the WNBA hates money. Tremendous opportunity to grow the game and sell 50 million jerseys lost here. Kind of crazy really.
What's crazier is that if you look at the seasons both are having, Clark has been a little better than Taurasi, yet the latter made it. If Clark isn't quite good enough to have made the Olympic team, then Taurasi isn't good enough anymore to have made it. Now, I get that she's a legacy pick, almost like a token invite ("you're not that great anymore, but you used to be, so you can come along"), but the optics are interesting to say the least. The WNBA definitely has their collective heads up their behinds.
No doubt Taurasi is a legacy pick.

I think that's a fairly common thing and something we wouldn't have a problem with in most sports.

And that legacy?
Taurasi became the highest scoring player in WNBA history..........6 years ago.
And here she is at age 42, 3rd in the league on 3PM per game (behind Plum and McBride) hitting them at a pretty good clip.

When she retires, her records will seem as unreal as Wayne Gretzky's did.

Pretty hard to fault anybody making a legacy pick on Taurasi.

It seems like in most sports leagues, respecting the game and those that built it is generally seen as honorable.

Maybe I'm just old school and out of touch with today's youths.

She's a coach on the floor. If anybody here has any hisotry of coaching in sports you know how valuable having somebody like Taurasi is to your team. Some players are important for more than what they can contribute athletically. Very very very few are natural leaders. She's a leader. That's why you keep her on the Olympic team.
Meh. Do you really think this team, and these players need that? Seems overkill.

She probably makes it on skill alone, but those kind of intangibles are overrated in this type of competition

Well, you could have chosen to be nice and not snarky, but you took the other option I see. Enjoy your Sunday.
 
To be fair, this team doesn't "need" anything.

They're going to dominate because the WNBA/US has the best only basketball players in the world.

Fixed.
I don't think that's true. These players play all over the world in the off-season to make some extra money.

But if you mean that as some sort of slight, you're a fan of American football, right? (not that any of that is played in Charlottle, NC these days)

I find it odd that men continue to flex over women's sports. So weird.
 
Brink is in such a great spot. She's a once in a generation talent that just gets to play basketball and learn and do what she loves.

Clark doesn't have that luxury. Clark, unfortunately, has to deal with Clark fans.
 
It's completely reasonable to leave Clark off an Olympic roster and probably better for her development to miss it. A lot of competitions in a short window.

How is not playing in the Olympics better for Clark's development? What is she going to do in the two weeks during the Olympics that will be better than practicing and playing with the best players in the world.
 
It's completely reasonable to leave Clark off an Olympic roster and probably better for her development to miss it. A lot of competitions in a short window.

How is not playing in the Olympics better for Clark's development? What is she going to do in the two weeks during the Olympics that will be better than practicing and playing with the best players in the world.

Resting? She needs a break.
 
It's completely reasonable to leave Clark off an Olympic roster and probably better for her development to miss it. A lot of competitions in a short window.

How is not playing in the Olympics better for Clark's development? What is she going to do in the two weeks during the Olympics that will be better than practicing and playing with the best players in the world.

Resting? She needs a break.

How does rest help her development? The WNBA season is over 5 weeks after the Olympics end. She'll have 8 months of rest at that point.
 
It's completely reasonable to leave Clark off an Olympic roster and probably better for her development to miss it. A lot of competitions in a short window.

How is not playing in the Olympics better for Clark's development? What is she going to do in the two weeks during the Olympics that will be better than practicing and playing with the best players in the world.

Resting? She needs a break.

How does rest help her development? The WNBA season is over 5 weeks after the Olympics end. She'll have 8 months of rest at that point.

Did you just ask me how rest helps an athlete?
 
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