*** OFFICIAL Yankees 2008 Thread*** (1 Viewer)

[Reaper]

Farnsworth suspended 3 games...

Thats pretty damn ridiculous considering he didnt hit him & he didnt even get ejected from the game & there was no further incidents. What a joke.

WOW... For all the times Yankee players have been hit or hit the dirt over the years... Sheesh, that's some precedent...

 

[shadyridr]

I think the Yanks should seriously start considering moving Joba to the rotation sooner rather than later.

 

[Capella]

Kennedy is over-matched right now.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Farnsworth suspended 3 games...

Thats pretty damn ridiculous considering he didnt hit him & he didnt even get ejected from the game & there was no further incidents. What a joke.

i agree. he's still farnsworthless though, so not a huge loss.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

nice to see the bullpen get some work....

 

[Balco]

I think the Yanks should seriously start considering moving Joba to the rotation sooner rather than later.

I still believe he is far more valuable as a reliever, but that Yankees rotation is beyond atrocious. I would be very curious to see how his stuff holds up against major league hitting if he is asked to go 6 + every game.

 

[cobalt_27]

I think the Yanks should seriously start considering moving Joba to the rotation sooner rather than later.

Let's face it...this is the worst SP staff in the AL, and it's not as though we didn't see it coming. Cashman didn't want to give up Kennedy for Santana, which is criminal in its stupidity, and now we have Hughes and Kennedy to lean on for the rest of the year. You or I could pitch better than Mussina at this point. Wang and Pettite are professionals who have some quality starts still in 'em. But, that is it, folks. Joba was a starter before and was brilliant. I think he's proven he can pitch to big league hitters. He won't be as dominant over 6+ as he is right now in this role, but...Kennedy is awful, and Hughes... ...Hughes does not look at all like he can take command of his pitches at this point.

 

[Capella]

Last year it was fun to bust balls and everything, but I think most knew it was still a pretty good team...this year, I don't know, not sure I see it. That SP is really, really awful.

 

[cobalt_27]

Last year it was fun to bust balls and everything, but I think most knew it was still a pretty good team...this year, I don't know, not sure I see it. That SP is really, really awful.

And, offensively, I'd say they're only above-average. Before the seasons started, I was of the mindset that we wouldn't win 90 games. Hank and Cash clearly saw something in their starting pitching that I wasn't seeing. I'm wondering if they have enough to even go 82-80.Both Boston and the Yanks will regret they did not land Santana. It's just that the Yanks will regret it more. And, it was even more absurd/ridiculous/stupid for them to be in the position they're in and not get him. At least Boston has a legitimate starting rotation.

 

[Balco]

I think the Yanks should seriously start considering moving Joba to the rotation sooner rather than later.

Cashman didn't want to give up Kennedy for Santana, which is criminal in its stupidity, and now we have Hughes and Kennedy to lean on for the rest of the year.

I was the same way with the Sox. Prospects are just that . . . prospects. Some can't miss guys miss. When you get an opportunity to land a pitcher in his prime like Santana, you do it. That's why I didn't care if we lost Bucholtz or Ellsbury, it was Johan Santana!!!

 

[shadyridr]

I think its a bit early to give up on Hughes. Hes only 21 years old. That being said it doesnt look like he can help us this year. Maybe we should send him down to AAA to work on his changeup. Anyway, I said at the beginning of this year that I can live with a rebuilding year as long as those guys develop.

 

[Balco]

I think its a bit early to give up on Hughes. Hes only 21 years old. That being said it doesnt look like he can help us this year. Maybe we should send him down to AAA to work on his changeup. Anyway, I said at the beginning of this year that I can live with a rebuilding year as long as those guys develop.

I think Hughes is going to be fine, but like you said, the Yanks might be better off letting him go to AAA to work on his game.

 

[Liquid Tension]

His stuff is pretty good. That curve is nasty. Good fastball when he can locate it. But he's a two pitch guy right now. That changeup is total bunk and doesn't have any movement at all. If he doesn't develop a 3rd pitch, he's never going to live up to his potential. Of course, he's 21 years old so he's got lots of time. The raw talent is clearly there.

He actually has a plus changeup but for some reason he hasnt thrown it much this year.

From a Yankees Scouting Site (so if it's biased in ANY way, it's PRO-Hughes)

Changeup: He throws a 78-79 mph changeup fairly well, although it is not as developed as his other pitches The Yankees put him on a constant diet of changeups throughout the 2006 season, forcing him to throw it as often as his curveball. He is still a step away from throwing the changeup in any situation (he goes to his curve with men on), but he is getting a better feel for it. Hughes would benefit from a few innings in AAA to finally nail it down without the big league pressure on him. Right now it will sometimes make hitters look foolish or sometimes fall way out of the strike zone.

I could care less what you have pulled out, I know he has a plus changeup.

From another yankees blog All Yankee Info: "Changeup: Hughes' changeup sits about 78-79 MPH range. It is about a major league average pitch right now "Joel Sherman of the NYPost is on record as saying Hughes Changeup is at best ML Average: ". But the evidence now is Hughes still needs a changeup to be even a No. 2 starter "

HArdball Times has called his changeup "underrated"... and there are others who speak of it as slightly above average... but they are not in the majority.

Not saying he can't develop it into a plus pitch... but right now it is not one.

Like I said, you can listen to the Joel Sherman's of the world and let "him" tell you what is right, but I know I know WAY more than these guys about baseball, pitching and what pitches are good and bad. He has a plus changeup! That is not saying he has an outstanding changeup, but it is absolutely a major league ready pitch and it is better than 60% of the guys in the league...thus Plus.

 

[Liquid Tension]

His stuff is pretty good. That curve is nasty. Good fastball when he can locate it. But he's a two pitch guy right now. That changeup is total bunk and doesn't have any movement at all. If he doesn't develop a 3rd pitch, he's never going to live up to his potential. Of course, he's 21 years old so he's got lots of time. The raw talent is clearly there.

He actually has a plus changeup but for some reason he hasnt thrown it much this year.

From a Yankees Scouting Site (so if it's biased in ANY way, it's PRO-Hughes)

Changeup: He throws a 78-79 mph changeup fairly well, although it is not as developed as his other pitches The Yankees put him on a constant diet of changeups throughout the 2006 season, forcing him to throw it as often as his curveball. He is still a step away from throwing the changeup in any situation (he goes to his curve with men on), but he is getting a better feel for it. Hughes would benefit from a few innings in AAA to finally nail it down without the big league pressure on him. Right now it will sometimes make hitters look foolish or sometimes fall way out of the strike zone.

I could care less what you have pulled out, I know he has a plus changeup.

From another yankees blog All Yankee Info: "Changeup: Hughes' changeup sits about 78-79 MPH range. It is about a major league average pitch right now "Joel Sherman of the NYPost is on record as saying Hughes Changeup is at best ML Average: ". But the evidence now is Hughes still needs a changeup to be even a No. 2 starter "

HArdball Times has called his changeup "underrated"... and there are others who speak of it as slightly above average... but they are not in the majority.

Not saying he can't develop it into a plus pitch... but right now it is not one.

I'm with you on this, his change is garbage to average at best. He's young, I'm not throwing him out, but you have to be honest in assessment. He's got an average fast ball and a plus plus curve, but that change needs help.

How many changeups did he throw? You guys are picking on his changeup when he is not even throwing it? The problem is his fastball is only 91 and he is not spotting it at all. His curve has not been consistent in terms of away and in or even getting it low. His slider should be used more as well. If he is only throwing around 91-92 then he must use all of his pitches.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Last year it was fun to bust balls and everything, but I think most knew it was still a pretty good team...this year, I don't know, not sure I see it. That SP is really, really awful.

And, offensively, I'd say they're only above-average. Before the seasons started, I was of the mindset that we wouldn't win 90 games. Hank and Cash clearly saw something in their starting pitching that I wasn't seeing. I'm wondering if they have enough to even go 82-80.Both Boston and the Yanks will regret they did not land Santana. It's just that the Yanks will regret it more. And, it was even more absurd/ridiculous/stupid for them to be in the position they're in and not get him. At least Boston has a legitimate starting rotation.

Here we go again the people giving up on the season after 1/8th of the season. Nobody has any perspective...

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

His stuff is pretty good. That curve is nasty. Good fastball when he can locate it. But he's a two pitch guy right now. That changeup is total bunk and doesn't have any movement at all. If he doesn't develop a 3rd pitch, he's never going to live up to his potential. Of course, he's 21 years old so he's got lots of time. The raw talent is clearly there.

He actually has a plus changeup but for some reason he hasnt thrown it much this year.

From a Yankees Scouting Site (so if it's biased in ANY way, it's PRO-Hughes)

Changeup: He throws a 78-79 mph changeup fairly well, although it is not as developed as his other pitches The Yankees put him on a constant diet of changeups throughout the 2006 season, forcing him to throw it as often as his curveball. He is still a step away from throwing the changeup in any situation (he goes to his curve with men on), but he is getting a better feel for it. Hughes would benefit from a few innings in AAA to finally nail it down without the big league pressure on him. Right now it will sometimes make hitters look foolish or sometimes fall way out of the strike zone.

I could care less what you have pulled out, I know he has a plus changeup.

From another yankees blog All Yankee Info: "Changeup: Hughes' changeup sits about 78-79 MPH range. It is about a major league average pitch right now "Joel Sherman of the NYPost is on record as saying Hughes Changeup is at best ML Average: ". But the evidence now is Hughes still needs a changeup to be even a No. 2 starter "

HArdball Times has called his changeup "underrated"... and there are others who speak of it as slightly above average... but they are not in the majority.

Not saying he can't develop it into a plus pitch... but right now it is not one.

I'm with you on this, his change is garbage to average at best. He's young, I'm not throwing him out, but you have to be honest in assessment. He's got an average fast ball and a plus plus curve, but that change needs help.

How many changeups did he throw? You guys are picking on his changeup when he is not even throwing it? The problem is his fastball is only 91 and he is not spotting it at all. His curve has not been consistent in terms of away and in or even getting it low. His slider should be used more as well. If he is only throwing around 91-92 then he must use all of his pitches.

If he's not throwing, that means its no good. You can't be a two pitch starter unless you're throwing in the high 90's and even then its no picnic. He can't locate the change consistently in the zone, as a hitter, you can ergo zone a pitch and a speed all the easier. I don't know what he'd be like techinque wise, but I wish David Wells would sit down with all these young guys and just talk some philosophy. He didn't necessarily have blow away stuff, but he challenged hitters to frequent success. This nibbling is just insipid to watch.

 

[cobalt_27]

I think its a bit early to give up on Hughes. Hes only 21 years old. That being said it doesnt look like he can help us this year. Maybe we should send him down to AAA to work on his changeup. Anyway, I said at the beginning of this year that I can live with a rebuilding year as long as those guys develop.

It's really too bad that we chose to rebuild around these guys than to rebuild around Johann.

 

[Workhorse]

His stuff is pretty good. That curve is nasty. Good fastball when he can locate it. But he's a two pitch guy right now. That changeup is total bunk and doesn't have any movement at all. If he doesn't develop a 3rd pitch, he's never going to live up to his potential. Of course, he's 21 years old so he's got lots of time. The raw talent is clearly there.

He actually has a plus changeup but for some reason he hasnt thrown it much this year.

From a Yankees Scouting Site (so if it's biased in ANY way, it's PRO-Hughes)

Changeup: He throws a 78-79 mph changeup fairly well, although it is not as developed as his other pitches The Yankees put him on a constant diet of changeups throughout the 2006 season, forcing him to throw it as often as his curveball. He is still a step away from throwing the changeup in any situation (he goes to his curve with men on), but he is getting a better feel for it. Hughes would benefit from a few innings in AAA to finally nail it down without the big league pressure on him. Right now it will sometimes make hitters look foolish or sometimes fall way out of the strike zone.

I could care less what you have pulled out, I know he has a plus changeup.

From another yankees blog All Yankee Info: "Changeup: Hughes' changeup sits about 78-79 MPH range. It is about a major league average pitch right now "Joel Sherman of the NYPost is on record as saying Hughes Changeup is at best ML Average: ". But the evidence now is Hughes still needs a changeup to be even a No. 2 starter "

HArdball Times has called his changeup "underrated"... and there are others who speak of it as slightly above average... but they are not in the majority.

Not saying he can't develop it into a plus pitch... but right now it is not one.

I'm with you on this, his change is garbage to average at best. He's young, I'm not throwing him out, but you have to be honest in assessment. He's got an average fast ball and a plus plus curve, but that change needs help.

How many changeups did he throw? You guys are picking on his changeup when he is not even throwing it? The problem is his fastball is only 91 and he is not spotting it at all. His curve has not been consistent in terms of away and in or even getting it low. His slider should be used more as well. If he is only throwing around 91-92 then he must use all of his pitches.

If he's not throwing, that means its no good. You can't be a two pitch starter unless you're throwing in the high 90's and even then its no picnic. He can't locate the change consistently in the zone, as a hitter, you can ergo zone a pitch and a speed all the easier. I don't know what he'd be like techinque wise, but I wish David Wells would sit down with all these young guys and just talk some philosophy. He didn't necessarily have blow away stuff, but he challenged hitters to frequent success. This nibbling is just insipid to watch.

Any pitcher who has a "plus" pitch that he only throws once or twice a game needs to see a shrink. Otherwise, it ain't a "plus" pitch in the first place. And Hughes changeup isn't "plus", no matter how badly Yankee fans want it to be so. It's mediocre at best with very little lateral movement.

 

[[icon]]

His stuff is pretty good. That curve is nasty. Good fastball when he can locate it. But he's a two pitch guy right now. That changeup is total bunk and doesn't have any movement at all. If he doesn't develop a 3rd pitch, he's never going to live up to his potential. Of course, he's 21 years old so he's got lots of time. The raw talent is clearly there.

He actually has a plus changeup but for some reason he hasnt thrown it much this year.

From a Yankees Scouting Site (so if it's biased in ANY way, it's PRO-Hughes)

Changeup: He throws a 78-79 mph changeup fairly well, although it is not as developed as his other pitches The Yankees put him on a constant diet of changeups throughout the 2006 season, forcing him to throw it as often as his curveball. He is still a step away from throwing the changeup in any situation (he goes to his curve with men on), but he is getting a better feel for it. Hughes would benefit from a few innings in AAA to finally nail it down without the big league pressure on him. Right now it will sometimes make hitters look foolish or sometimes fall way out of the strike zone.

I could care less what you have pulled out, I know he has a plus changeup.

From another yankees blog All Yankee Info: "Changeup: Hughes' changeup sits about 78-79 MPH range. It is about a major league average pitch right now "Joel Sherman of the NYPost is on record as saying Hughes Changeup is at best ML Average: ". But the evidence now is Hughes still needs a changeup to be even a No. 2 starter "

HArdball Times has called his changeup "underrated"... and there are others who speak of it as slightly above average... but they are not in the majority.

Not saying he can't develop it into a plus pitch... but right now it is not one.

I'm with you on this, his change is garbage to average at best. He's young, I'm not throwing him out, but you have to be honest in assessment. He's got an average fast ball and a plus plus curve, but that change needs help.

How many changeups did he throw? You guys are picking on his changeup when he is not even throwing it? The problem is his fastball is only 91 and he is not spotting it at all. His curve has not been consistent in terms of away and in or even getting it low. His slider should be used more as well. If he is only throwing around 91-92 then he must use all of his pitches.

If he's not throwing, that means its no good. You can't be a two pitch starter unless you're throwing in the high 90's and even then its no picnic. He can't locate the change consistently in the zone, as a hitter, you can ergo zone a pitch and a speed all the easier. I don't know what he'd be like techinque wise, but I wish David Wells would sit down with all these young guys and just talk some philosophy. He didn't necessarily have blow away stuff, but he challenged hitters to frequent success. This nibbling is just insipid to watch.

Any pitcher who has a "plus" pitch that he only throws once or twice a game needs to see a shrink. Otherwise, it ain't a "plus" pitch in the first place. And Hughes changeup isn't "plus", no matter how badly Yankee fans want it to be so. It's mediocre at best with very little lateral movement.

Good to see I'm not the only one not drinking the Kool Aid.

I think Hughes shows a tremendous amount of potential... but to say that anything other than his Curve is a Plus pitch is laughable right now. If he was some no-name guys and not the Anointed One, he'd have been sent down to the minors already... which honestly might not be a terrible idea. He just needs a little work in an environment where he can sharpen pitches without risking a W/L

 

[shadyridr]

I think its a bit early to give up on Hughes. Hes only 21 years old. That being said it doesnt look like he can help us this year. Maybe we should send him down to AAA to work on his changeup. Anyway, I said at the beginning of this year that I can live with a rebuilding year as long as those guys develop.

It's really too bad that we chose to rebuild around these guys than to rebuild around Johann.

Talk about jumping ship early. Good riddance

 

[Reaper]

Last year it was fun to bust balls and everything, but I think most knew it was still a pretty good team...this year, I don't know, not sure I see it. That SP is really, really awful.

I think the list of guys who pitched for the Yankees the 1st half last year was pretty nutty...They need to stay healthy and not get in a huge hole but this year had to be a transition year like many said with these guys learning and an addition next year after salary cuts.

 

[Sammy3469]

I can't wait for Kei Igawa to get called up.

 

[cobalt_27]

I think its a bit early to give up on Hughes. Hes only 21 years old. That being said it doesnt look like he can help us this year. Maybe we should send him down to AAA to work on his changeup. Anyway, I said at the beginning of this year that I can live with a rebuilding year as long as those guys develop.

It's really too bad that we chose to rebuild around these guys than to rebuild around Johann.

Talk about jumping ship early. Good riddance

You're the one all geeked up about tanking this season so we can rebuild. Strangely, you've evaluated it somehow that it would be better to rebuild around Ian Kennedy than it would be Johann Santana. How else should we evaluate your Yankee homerism? I'm a fan of the team, but I can at least see through the stupidity of my team's general manager and ownership.

 

[David Yudkin]

20 games in and the Yanks rotation appears to have issues past Pettitte and Wang (as I opnenly questioned several pages ago prior to the season starting).

Mussina 5.75 ERA, .313 BAA

Hughes 8.82 ERA, .357 BAA

Kennedy 9.64 ERA, .328 BAA

I realize there are a ton of games left and the Yankees offense can often make up for mediocre pitching, but you so far the back of their rotation has not been very productive and may be cause for concern.

 

[wilked]

The boss is getting impatient

Steinbrenner said he wanted Joba Chamberlain, the Yankees’ hard-throwing setup man, to move into the rotation.“I want him as a starter and so does everyone else, including him, and that is what we are working toward and we need him there now,” Steinbrenner said Sunday by telephone.

 

[Sammy3469]

The boss is getting impatient

Steinbrenner said he wanted Joba Chamberlain, the Yankees’ hard-throwing setup man, to move into the rotation.“I want him as a starter and so does everyone else, including him, and that is what we are working toward and we need him there now,” Steinbrenner said Sunday by telephone.

He also threw Mussina under the bus basically by saying Joba should be added to a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, and Kennedy I also really have no clue what LT is talking about...Hughes has basically been a three pitch pitcher in the minors with a 4-seam FB, a 2-seam FB, and a 1-7 curve which has been his out pitch. He's never really had a great change-up as the two fastballs he throw vary just enough to cause hitters problems...in the minors. He still needs to work on the change and it shows as he only throws it 5% of the time.

 

[Reaper]

20 games in and the Yanks rotation appears to have issues past Pettitte and Wang (as I opnenly questioned several pages ago prior to the season starting).Mussina 5.75 ERA, .313 BAAHughes 8.82 ERA, .357 BAAKennedy 9.64 ERA, .328 BAAI realize there are a ton of games left and the Yankees offense can often make up for mediocre pitching, but you so far the back of their rotation has not been very productive and may be cause for concern.

How did that look last year at this time?I've got no delusions of a Championship this year but, I do think things look brighter overall.

 

[wilked]

20 games in and the Yanks rotation appears to have issues past Pettitte and Wang (as I opnenly questioned several pages ago prior to the season starting).Mussina 5.75 ERA, .313 BAAHughes 8.82 ERA, .357 BAAKennedy 9.64 ERA, .328 BAAI realize there are a ton of games left and the Yankees offense can often make up for mediocre pitching, but you so far the back of their rotation has not been very productive and may be cause for concern.

How did that look last year at this time?I've got no delusions of a Championship this year but, I do think things look brighter overall.

so instead of first round playoff exit, 2nd round?

 

[Angry Beavers]

I am a NYY transplant living in Cleveland (ouch)...

what is the status on A-Rod? I assume he is going to miss a couple of days this week anyway with his wife having a kid any day....

 

[shadyridr]

I am a NYY transplant living in Cleveland (ouch)...what is the status on A-Rod? I assume he is going to miss a couple of days this week anyway with his wife having a kid any day....

Your assumption sounds about right

 

[shadyridr]

The boss is getting impatient

Steinbrenner said he wanted Joba Chamberlain, the Yankees’ hard-throwing setup man, to move into the rotation.“I want him as a starter and so does everyone else, including him, and that is what we are working toward and we need him there now,” Steinbrenner said Sunday by telephone.

good :X

 

[shadyridr]

I think its a bit early to give up on Hughes. Hes only 21 years old. That being said it doesnt look like he can help us this year. Maybe we should send him down to AAA to work on his changeup. Anyway, I said at the beginning of this year that I can live with a rebuilding year as long as those guys develop.

It's really too bad that we chose to rebuild around these guys than to rebuild around Johann.

:X Talk about jumping ship early. Good riddance

You're the one all geeked up about tanking this season so we can rebuild. Strangely, you've evaluated it somehow that it would be better to rebuild around Ian Kennedy than it would be Johann Santana. How else should we evaluate your Yankee homerism? I'm a fan of the team, but I can at least see through the stupidity of my team's general manager and ownership.

We're building around Hughes & Chamberlain. There's no proof that Cashman turned down Kennedy for Santana as thats just a bit too hard for me to believe. Why do you keep insisting the Yanks are builing around Kennedy? If he pitches well itll be a bonus because most people think Hughes & Chamberlain will be top starters. It might not come this year which was a possibility from the beginning. But if they become top starters this team will be good for the next 10 years. How could you not be excited by that?

 

[shadyridr]

IMO we need to see what Joba can do as a starter as soon as possible. IF (thats a big if) Hughes and Kennedy both turn out to be failures then that makes Joba being a starter in the future that more important. We need to see if he can handle the role and if not then make a decision next year whether to permanantly make him a reliever. I think they should put him into the rotation now and then either shut him down near his innings limit or move him back to the pen in September. I'm not too concerned about the playoffs this year. Everything we need to do this year should be focused on rebuilding towards next year. We should take our lumps with Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba in the rotation and then we'll have a MUCH better idea of how our team should look next year. This team is not gonna win the WS this year no matter how you look at it.

 

[Liquid Tension]

His stuff is pretty good. That curve is nasty. Good fastball when he can locate it. But he's a two pitch guy right now. That changeup is total bunk and doesn't have any movement at all. If he doesn't develop a 3rd pitch, he's never going to live up to his potential. Of course, he's 21 years old so he's got lots of time. The raw talent is clearly there.

He actually has a plus changeup but for some reason he hasnt thrown it much this year.

From a Yankees Scouting Site (so if it's biased in ANY way, it's PRO-Hughes)

Changeup: He throws a 78-79 mph changeup fairly well, although it is not as developed as his other pitches The Yankees put him on a constant diet of changeups throughout the 2006 season, forcing him to throw it as often as his curveball. He is still a step away from throwing the changeup in any situation (he goes to his curve with men on), but he is getting a better feel for it. Hughes would benefit from a few innings in AAA to finally nail it down without the big league pressure on him. Right now it will sometimes make hitters look foolish or sometimes fall way out of the strike zone.

I could care less what you have pulled out, I know he has a plus changeup.

From another yankees blog All Yankee Info: "Changeup: Hughes' changeup sits about 78-79 MPH range. It is about a major league average pitch right now "Joel Sherman of the NYPost is on record as saying Hughes Changeup is at best ML Average: ". But the evidence now is Hughes still needs a changeup to be even a No. 2 starter "

HArdball Times has called his changeup "underrated"... and there are others who speak of it as slightly above average... but they are not in the majority.

Not saying he can't develop it into a plus pitch... but right now it is not one.

I'm with you on this, his change is garbage to average at best. He's young, I'm not throwing him out, but you have to be honest in assessment. He's got an average fast ball and a plus plus curve, but that change needs help.

How many changeups did he throw? You guys are picking on his changeup when he is not even throwing it? The problem is his fastball is only 91 and he is not spotting it at all. His curve has not been consistent in terms of away and in or even getting it low. His slider should be used more as well. If he is only throwing around 91-92 then he must use all of his pitches.

If he's not throwing, that means its no good. You can't be a two pitch starter unless you're throwing in the high 90's and even then its no picnic. He can't locate the change consistently in the zone, as a hitter, you can ergo zone a pitch and a speed all the easier. I don't know what he'd be like techinque wise, but I wish David Wells would sit down with all these young guys and just talk some philosophy. He didn't necessarily have blow away stuff, but he challenged hitters to frequent success. This nibbling is just insipid to watch.

Him not throwing it is not an indication of it not being good. I know people say these are professionals, but there are so many mistakes and so many times where the catcher and pitcher forget about using a pitch, you would be surprised. In general, some catchers just don't think a certain pitch is as effective. Molina is a guy who likes the breaking ball. When, if Posada gets catching I would bet you would see more changeups.David Wells had excellent control and he had a nice cutter to go along with a nice curve. When you don't walk batters, you are able to change speeds, levels and move the ball in and out you can be successful in the league.

There are times to nibble, but it is better to put the right pitch at the rightg speed in the right spot.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

I'm not seeing the despiration here yet. So Kennedy and Hughes have started off slow. Not a big deal in my opinion. Hughes will be fine I believe. He won't challange for the Cy Young this year, but he's a #3 starter who will be a #1 in a year or two. He doesn't need to win 20 games. Kennedy needs to stop aiming and just throw. I agree with the David Wells comment above. Always loved the guy. No free bases. You want one, you hit something. That simple.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I think its a bit early to give up on Hughes. Hes only 21 years old. That being said it doesnt look like he can help us this year. Maybe we should send him down to AAA to work on his changeup. Anyway, I said at the beginning of this year that I can live with a rebuilding year as long as those guys develop.

It's really too bad that we chose to rebuild around these guys than to rebuild around Johann.

If my memory serves correct, Cobalt was adamant about pulling the trigger for Johan Santana. I was also stating the same thing at first, but after reading a lot (as I hadn't seen Hughes pitch in the minors) I softened to say that IF it is true that Hughes does throw 95 MPH, I could see the Yankees being reluctant to include Hughes along with Melky, Kennedy and a minor leaguer. However, it does not seem that Hughes throws 95 MPH. It is too early to say the Yanks screwed up as Kennedy and Hughes are better than they have shown, but as I said in the offseason when you have an opportunity to add a top 3 pitcher in the game (and I had Santana ranked as the #1 pithier before 2007) you go ahead and do that when you have a payroll like the Yanks.

Let's focus on getting these guys pitching like they are capable of and everything will be OK.

 

[shadyridr]

I'm not seeing the despiration here yet. So Kennedy and Hughes have started off slow. Not a big deal in my opinion. Hughes will be fine I believe. He won't challange for the Cy Young this year, but he's a #3 starter who will be a #1 in a year or two. He doesn't need to win 20 games. Kennedy needs to stop aiming and just throw. I agree with the David Wells comment above. Always loved the guy. No free bases. You want one, you hit something. That simple.

All Im looking for from Hughes and Kennedy is to last 6 innings.

 

[Liquid Tension]

20 games in and the Yanks rotation appears to have issues past Pettitte and Wang (as I opnenly questioned several pages ago prior to the season starting).Mussina 5.75 ERA, .313 BAAHughes 8.82 ERA, .357 BAAKennedy 9.64 ERA, .328 BAAI realize there are a ton of games left and the Yankees offense can often make up for mediocre pitching, but you so far the back of their rotation has not been very productive and may be cause for concern.

Here is the point, is there any chance that this will get worse? NO. I didn't look at the innings to come up with the exact ERA, but if you took the totals and divided by 3 I think you would be safe to guess that the ERA of 8 will not continue. In fact, I think it would safe to assume that the ERA would drop by 2-3 runs.Conversely, would one expect Pettitte to struggle maintaining a 2.45 ERA...If you look at the entire Yankee team, they are not performing at the level you would expect overall. Almost every offensive starting player is doing less than you would expect; it will turn around.

 

[Sammy3469]

IMO we need to see what Joba can do as a starter as soon as possible. IF (thats a big if) Hughes and Kennedy both turn out to be failures then that makes Joba being a starter in the future that more important. We need to see if he can handle the role and if not then make a decision next year whether to permanantly make him a reliever. I think they should put him into the rotation now and then either shut him down near his innings limit or move him back to the pen in September. I'm not too concerned about the playoffs this year. Everything we need to do this year should be focused on rebuilding towards next year. We should take our lumps with Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba in the rotation and then we'll have a MUCH better idea of how our team should look next year. This team is not gonna win the WS this year no matter how you look at it.

I think your fooling yourself a little if you think this team will be any better next year. They're going to have a bunch of 35 year old hitters plus Pettitte will be a year older if he even wants to pitch another year. Hell even this year, these guys have started to get little nicks that have affected their performance....its just going to get worse as time goes on. I think their window is closing faster than people want to believe. At some point in the relatively near future they'll need to completely overhaul their offense and quite frankly there aren't a whole lot of options that are going to be available though I guess Teixera would pique their interest.

 

[Liquid Tension]

The boss is getting impatient

Steinbrenner said he wanted Joba Chamberlain, the Yankees’ hard-throwing setup man, to move into the rotation.“I want him as a starter and so does everyone else, including him, and that is what we are working toward and we need him there now,” Steinbrenner said Sunday by telephone.

He also threw Mussina under the bus basically by saying Joba should be added to a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, and Kennedy I also really have no clue what LT is talking about...Hughes has basically been a three pitch pitcher in the minors with a 4-seam FB, a 2-seam FB, and a 1-7 curve which has been his out pitch. He's never really had a great change-up as the two fastballs he throw vary just enough to cause hitters problems...in the minors. He still needs to work on the change and it shows as he only throws it 5% of the time.

Hughes has a good slider as well but you seem to think he never threw it either?Everyone said that I was out of my mind saying that the Yanks were WAY under performing last year and that they would win 90 games (when they stunk early on). Everyone said that Abreu was done and when I said he would turn it around as guys just don't fall off that precipitously. I was told I was clueless and Philly fans came out of the wood works to tell me they knew he would suck and that is why they didn't like him and got rid of him. Last year I said Cano would be a great player when he had an OPS of .725 or so through most of the 1st half last year. I will also say that once he starts up this year he will be an OPS guy of .900 the rest of the way (although he really needs to be less of a hacker). Last year I wrote that Bruney had good stuff and could be an effective setup type guy if Torre would stop mis-using him; of course everyone said he was useless. Why is it that nobody can see anything until they actually see it?

 

[Reaper]

20 games in and the Yanks rotation appears to have issues past Pettitte and Wang (as I opnenly questioned several pages ago prior to the season starting).Mussina 5.75 ERA, .313 BAAHughes 8.82 ERA, .357 BAAKennedy 9.64 ERA, .328 BAAI realize there are a ton of games left and the Yankees offense can often make up for mediocre pitching, but you so far the back of their rotation has not been very productive and may be cause for concern.

How did that look last year at this time?I've got no delusions of a Championship this year but, I do think things look brighter overall.

so instead of first round playoff exit, 2nd round?

Maybe no playoffs at all.... The big picture and how the staff eventually turns out is what matters most - If that means developing these young arms + Shedding Salary then adding another pitcher at the top of the rotation without the expense of losing elsewhere, then so be it....

 

[shadyridr]

IMO we need to see what Joba can do as a starter as soon as possible. IF (thats a big if) Hughes and Kennedy both turn out to be failures then that makes Joba being a starter in the future that more important. We need to see if he can handle the role and if not then make a decision next year whether to permanantly make him a reliever. I think they should put him into the rotation now and then either shut him down near his innings limit or move him back to the pen in September. I'm not too concerned about the playoffs this year. Everything we need to do this year should be focused on rebuilding towards next year. We should take our lumps with Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba in the rotation and then we'll have a MUCH better idea of how our team should look next year. This team is not gonna win the WS this year no matter how you look at it.

I think your fooling yourself a little if you think this team will be any better next year. They're going to have a bunch of 35 year old hitters plus Pettitte will be a year older if he even wants to pitch another year. Hell even this year, these guys have started to get little nicks that have affected their performance....its just going to get worse as time goes on. I think their window is closing faster than people want to believe. At some point in the relatively near future they'll need to completely overhaul their offense and quite frankly there aren't a whole lot of options that are going to be available though I guess Teixera would pique their interest.

They have a TON of money coming off the books. I think theyll go after CC AND Tex

 

[shadyridr]

The boss is getting impatient

Steinbrenner said he wanted Joba Chamberlain, the Yankees’ hard-throwing setup man, to move into the rotation.“I want him as a starter and so does everyone else, including him, and that is what we are working toward and we need him there now,” Steinbrenner said Sunday by telephone.

He also threw Mussina under the bus basically by saying Joba should be added to a rotation of Wang, Pettitte, Hughes, and Kennedy I also really have no clue what LT is talking about...Hughes has basically been a three pitch pitcher in the minors with a 4-seam FB, a 2-seam FB, and a 1-7 curve which has been his out pitch. He's never really had a great change-up as the two fastballs he throw vary just enough to cause hitters problems...in the minors. He still needs to work on the change and it shows as he only throws it 5% of the time.

Hughes has a good slider as well but you seem to think he never threw it either?Everyone said that I was out of my mind saying that the Yanks were WAY under performing last year and that they would win 90 games (when they stunk early on). Everyone said that Abreu was done and when I said he would turn it around as guys just don't fall off that precipitously. I was told I was clueless and Philly fans came out of the wood works to tell me they knew he would suck and that is why they didn't like him and got rid of him. Last year I said Cano would be a great player when he had an OPS of .725 or so through most of the 1st half last year. I will also say that once he starts up this year he will be an OPS guy of .900 the rest of the way (although he really needs to be less of a hacker). Last year I wrote that Bruney had good stuff and could be an effective setup type guy if Torre would stop mis-using him; of course everyone said he was useless. Why is it that nobody can see anything until they actually see it?

Man your arrogant

 

[Sammy3469]

20 games in and the Yanks rotation appears to have issues past Pettitte and Wang (as I opnenly questioned several pages ago prior to the season starting).

Mussina 5.75 ERA, .313 BAA

Hughes 8.82 ERA, .357 BAA

Kennedy 9.64 ERA, .328 BAA

I realize there are a ton of games left and the Yankees offense can often make up for mediocre pitching, but you so far the back of their rotation has not been very productive and may be cause for concern.

Here is the point, is there any chance that this will get worse? NO. I didn't look at the innings to come up with the exact ERA, but if you took the totals and divided by 3 I think you would be safe to guess that the ERA of 8 will not continue. In fact, I think it would safe to assume that the ERA would drop by 2-3 runs.Conversely, would one expect Pettitte to struggle maintaining a 2.45 ERA...

If you look at the entire Yankee team, they are not performing at the level you would expect overall. Almost every offensive starting player is doing less than you would expect; it will turn around.

What were you expecting some of these guys to do. I'll give you Cano and Giambi (though he's been so flaky lately I don't know what a reasonable expectation should be), but basically every other position has been what you would expect. Gonzalez has basically made up for Jeter's slight underperformance. The catcher platoon has been more than adequate. Abreu, Melky, and Matsui are all performing at or above expections, and Damon's doing what he did last year. I guess A-rod's underperfoming based on last year, but last year was one of the great historical seasons ever... so he's basically regressed to his 2006 season.

About the only thing you can say is that they've been unlucky collectively not to score more runs.

 

[shadyridr]

20 games in and the Yanks rotation appears to have issues past Pettitte and Wang (as I opnenly questioned several pages ago prior to the season starting).

Mussina 5.75 ERA, .313 BAA

Hughes 8.82 ERA, .357 BAA

Kennedy 9.64 ERA, .328 BAA

I realize there are a ton of games left and the Yankees offense can often make up for mediocre pitching, but you so far the back of their rotation has not been very productive and may be cause for concern.

Here is the point, is there any chance that this will get worse? NO. I didn't look at the innings to come up with the exact ERA, but if you took the totals and divided by 3 I think you would be safe to guess that the ERA of 8 will not continue. In fact, I think it would safe to assume that the ERA would drop by 2-3 runs.Conversely, would one expect Pettitte to struggle maintaining a 2.45 ERA...

If you look at the entire Yankee team, they are not performing at the level you would expect overall. Almost every offensive starting player is doing less than you would expect; it will turn around.

What were you expecting some of these guys to do. I'll give you Cano and Giambi (though he's been so flaky lately I don't know what a reasonable expectation should be), but basically every other position has been what you would expect. Gonzalez has basically made up for Jeter's slight underperformance. The catcher platoon has been more than adequate. Abreu, Melky, and Matsui are all performing at or above expections, and Damon's doing what he did last year. I guess A-rod's underperfoming based on last year, but last year was one of the great historical seasons ever... so he's basically regressed to his 2006 season.

About the only thing you can say is that they've been unlucky collectively not to score more runs.

I believe theyre batting under .200 with RISP. That will change.

 

[David Yudkin]

20 games in and the Yanks rotation appears to have issues past Pettitte and Wang (as I opnenly questioned several pages ago prior to the season starting).Mussina 5.75 ERA, .313 BAAHughes 8.82 ERA, .357 BAAKennedy 9.64 ERA, .328 BAAI realize there are a ton of games left and the Yankees offense can often make up for mediocre pitching, but you so far the back of their rotation has not been very productive and may be cause for concern.

How did that look last year at this time?I've got no delusions of a Championship this year but, I do think things look brighter overall.

The main difference last year was a NYY staff that was riddled with injuries. This year they have been healthy and somewhat ineffective. What happens if they start getting nicked up to boot?I'm not suggesting that any of these guys are not capable of doing better. I do still openly question if they are good enough this year to make a playoff and WS run.As for 08 vs 07, NY is currently on pace to allow 753 runs but only score 689. That pace puts the Yanks staff at a better rate than last year (777 runs allowed). Certainly the Yankees will score more than they are currently (scored 968 times last year).But it does seem like their pitching as been very good or horrendous, and it also seems like they have scored a lot in games where the pitchers gave up few runs (so basically bad timing).

 

[Sammy3469]

20 games in and the Yanks rotation appears to have issues past Pettitte and Wang (as I opnenly questioned several pages ago prior to the season starting).

Mussina 5.75 ERA, .313 BAA

Hughes 8.82 ERA, .357 BAA

Kennedy 9.64 ERA, .328 BAA

I realize there are a ton of games left and the Yankees offense can often make up for mediocre pitching, but you so far the back of their rotation has not been very productive and may be cause for concern.

Here is the point, is there any chance that this will get worse? NO. I didn't look at the innings to come up with the exact ERA, but if you took the totals and divided by 3 I think you would be safe to guess that the ERA of 8 will not continue. In fact, I think it would safe to assume that the ERA would drop by 2-3 runs.Conversely, would one expect Pettitte to struggle maintaining a 2.45 ERA...

If you look at the entire Yankee team, they are not performing at the level you would expect overall. Almost every offensive starting player is doing less than you would expect; it will turn around.

What were you expecting some of these guys to do. I'll give you Cano and Giambi (though he's been so flaky lately I don't know what a reasonable expectation should be), but basically every other position has been what you would expect. Gonzalez has basically made up for Jeter's slight underperformance. The catcher platoon has been more than adequate. Abreu, Melky, and Matsui are all performing at or above expections, and Damon's doing what he did last year. I guess A-rod's underperfoming based on last year, but last year was one of the great historical seasons ever... so he's basically regressed to his 2006 season.

About the only thing you can say is that they've been unlucky collectively not to score more runs.

I believe theyre batting under .200 with RISP. That will change.

That I thoroughly agree with and will change, but its not like everyone on the team is underperforming. They should be scoring about a run more per game so far based on their OBP and SLG, so they will score more runs eventually.

 

[Sammy3469]

IMO we need to see what Joba can do as a starter as soon as possible. IF (thats a big if) Hughes and Kennedy both turn out to be failures then that makes Joba being a starter in the future that more important. We need to see if he can handle the role and if not then make a decision next year whether to permanantly make him a reliever. I think they should put him into the rotation now and then either shut him down near his innings limit or move him back to the pen in September. I'm not too concerned about the playoffs this year. Everything we need to do this year should be focused on rebuilding towards next year. We should take our lumps with Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba in the rotation and then we'll have a MUCH better idea of how our team should look next year. This team is not gonna win the WS this year no matter how you look at it.

I think your fooling yourself a little if you think this team will be any better next year. They're going to have a bunch of 35 year old hitters plus Pettitte will be a year older if he even wants to pitch another year. Hell even this year, these guys have started to get little nicks that have affected their performance....its just going to get worse as time goes on. I think their window is closing faster than people want to believe. At some point in the relatively near future they'll need to completely overhaul their offense and quite frankly there aren't a whole lot of options that are going to be available though I guess Teixera would pique their interest.

They have a TON of money coming off the books. I think theyll go after CC AND Tex

I understand that, but my bigger point was that there aren't many if any top-tier talents coming onto the FA to spend said $$$ on. This year FAs are basically those two and Dunn (if you assume teams pick up options on guys like Manny). The next 2 years FA classes aren't much better and by then you'll have other teams looking to spend $$ too. The smaller teams have done a hell of a job of locking up their top young talent.

 

[Darth Cheney]

ABANDON SHIP!!!!! ABANDON SHIP!!!!!! WOMEN AND CHILDREN FIRST!!!!! OHHHH THE HUMANITY!!!!!!!!

It's April, women. Let's not get all sky is falling just quite yet.

 

[Reaper]

20 games in and the Yanks rotation appears to have issues past Pettitte and Wang (as I opnenly questioned several pages ago prior to the season starting).Mussina 5.75 ERA, .313 BAAHughes 8.82 ERA, .357 BAAKennedy 9.64 ERA, .328 BAAI realize there are a ton of games left and the Yankees offense can often make up for mediocre pitching, but you so far the back of their rotation has not been very productive and may be cause for concern.

How did that look last year at this time?I've got no delusions of a Championship this year but, I do think things look brighter overall.

The main difference last year was a NYY staff that was riddled with injuries. This year they have been healthy and somewhat ineffective. What happens if they start getting nicked up to boot?

Injuries or not - I'm MUCH more confident in this staff entering the season and for the future..Are you counting Carl Pavano as an injury? What was that starting staff? Kei Igawa? Rasner? Karstens?I'd think if injuries hit this staff, THEN they would be in the same boat as last year again.But, as for now, the hope is that you have young Good pitchers learning as they go as opposed to guys off the street...