Warsteinner
Footballguy
People aren't as smart as they thought they were around here.Brady 65
Manning 52
Manning shouldn't even be getting 10% of the vote.
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P. Manning or T. Brady (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Noahs Troopers
- Start date
Manning shouldn't even be getting 10% of the vote.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
How is this vote this close? No matter how you slice it, Brady is the better quarterback.
ren hoek
Footballguy
People aren't as smart as they thought they were around here.Brady 65
Manning 52
So we're putting Brady on a higher pedestal than Manning because he can "win the big game"?Should I go ahead and make the Manning vs. Dilfer poll?
Warsteinner
Footballguy
So you're suggesting a GM should take Manning so they can lose in the playoffs each year? See the above post. Dilfer won a SB playing consistenlty from week 1 to the SB. Manning plays consistently week 1-17 and then his performance has a history of dipping off slightly.People aren't as smart as they thought they were around here.Brady 65
Manning 52
Should I go ahead and make the Manning vs. Dilfer poll?
bostonfred
Footballguy
Perhaps you've missed the last five years worth of regular season performances from Brady, but it turns out he's pretty good at winning regular season games, too.People aren't as smart as they thought they were around here.Brady 65
Manning 52
Should I go ahead and make the Manning vs. Dilfer poll?
Perfect Tommy
Footballguy
I had to go with the Dynamic Dimple over his dawg Peyton. Peyton has got to handle the pressure better to rise to DD's level. I am talking about both kinds of pressure. The big game, and the big pass rush. I like Peyton, certainly, but he carries on the tradition of Dan Marino. Tom Brady is the NFL's heir apparent to BRETT FAVRE!!
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Unless you are actually comparing Trent Dilfer to Tom Brady, this is an extremely weak argument.
Serenity Now
Footballguy
Did hell just freeze over? 
Noahs Troopers
Footballguy
SoloMatisse
Footballguy
So we're putting Brady on a higher pedestal than Manning because he can "win the big game"?
Should I go ahead and make the Manning vs. Dilfer poll?
Yeah, when Dilfer grows some hair and wins a couple more rings and atleast ONE MVP, then go ahead and make that happen. Until then, enjoy the fact that Manning cant carry Brady's jock.
Colt's defense this year: #2 in points allowed, #11 in yards allowedPats 2004: #2 in points allowed, 9th in yards allowedYou asked a question, I gave you an answer. I think he'd have won a Super Bowl by now if he had an actual play-off defense behind him.Got it. Ask a stupid question.....Because he's a better quarterback than Tom Brady.Why?
Pats 2003: #1 in points allowed, 7th in yards allowed
Pats 2001: 6th in points allowed, 24th in yards allowed
This year Manning led his team to 18 points at home against the 6th seed.
The year before Manning led his team to 3 points in NE.
The year before that Manning led his team to 14 points again in NE.
The year before that they got shut out by the Jets who btw had the 24th ranked defense that year.
The year before that they didn't make the playoffs.
The year before that Manning led his team to 17 points in an OT game against Miami.
The year before that: 16 points at home against Tennessee who had the 16th ranked defense.
What exactly would you like his defense to do in those games? Manning never led his team to over 20 points in any of those losses!
In Brady's Super Bowl wins, NE's defense has given up 17, 29, and 21 points, yet Brady has won them all.
Maybe I'm missing your point.
The Pats were 0-2 when Brady took over. They were 10 points HOME underdogs in week 3 in Brady's first game. Here is a link from ESPN that preseason: 0 of 20 experts picked the Pats to make the playoffs that year. HERE is a link from Sports Illustrated that preseason: They picked the Pats to finish dead last in the AFC East.Brady led them to the super bowl that year.
Edited to add: HERE is a link to the point spreads of week 3 that year to show that the Pats were 10 point home underdogs that week(coincidentally to Manning's Colts...guess who won that game).
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It really is a valid argument though. Manning has tons of talent around him on offense including perhaps one of the best WRs of all time and his offense continually puts up bad showings in their playoff losses. If the Colts were losing games 42-35 you would not be hearing this criticism. Moreover, Manning has made stupid errors in clutch moments such as having 2nd and 2 and throwing deeps twice against the Steelers forcing his kicker to kick a very long FG. And lets not even forget that the Colts went 4 and out on the possession before that. Could you honestly even imagine Brady going 4 and out with 2 minutes to go in a game and his team down one score?
ren hoek
Footballguy
I have no vested interest in either of these players, and I think that Brady is a great quarterback.I'm just not seeing the same argument against Manning that you all are. I think if you isolate the two players, Manning is a better quarterback, and I really don't think that it's that outlandish of a claim to make. I just refuse to believe that the Colts' struggles in the play-offs every year fall squarely on Manning's shoulders. There is a coaching staff, special teams, defense, and a hell of a lot more to it than just the QB's play. And when you don't have time to throw, as was the case with Manning in the 1st half of the Steelers game, you're going to look very pedestrian. The only strike I could possibly make against him is the fact that he's accepted a ridiculous salary which has effectively crippled the Colts' chances of improving their defense in the next few years, which is exactly why I said "if they're being paid the same salary" in my very first post in this thread.
The Patriots were 4-0 the following year, and finished 9-7 and out of the play-offs. Did Brady just not "lead his team to the Super Bowl" that year because he didn't feel like it, or was it that his team was not good enough to get there? The Patriots have been a great team the past few years, and to say it's as cut-and-dry as Brady being the reason for them winning 3 Super Bowls is a smack in the face to a team that has had tremendous defenses and an excellent head coach.I will say though that I was a bit quick to say, paraphrasing, that I'd 'take Manning in a heartbeat'. That's all I'm going to say about that.
Noahs Troopers
Footballguy
What's your reasoning?
cobalt_27
Footballguy
What, the last eight months down?What's your reasoning?
DawnBTVS
Footballguy
In 2002, the Patriots finished in a three way tie with the Jets and Miami Dolphins at 9-7 with the Bills right behind them at 8-8. The Jets won the tiebreaker and made the playoffs so I'd hardly blame that on Brady or the Pats not being "good enough" but rather being in a really tough division that year.
Spartans346
Footballguy
Put Brady with the Colts and Manning with the Patriots and see what happens.Brady will have a much better record.
Spartans346
Footballguy
I think I heard this question 20 years ago when it was asked ....
Who would you take:
Joe Montana or Dan Marino
Gotta go with Joe Montana!
Marino=Manning (Can put up fantasy points but can't win the big one)
Montana=Brady (you are done by 5 points with 1:30 left in the Superbowl these are the two you would go to)
Who would you take:
Joe Montana or Dan Marino
Gotta go with Joe Montana!
Marino=Manning (Can put up fantasy points but can't win the big one)
Montana=Brady (you are done by 5 points with 1:30 left in the Superbowl these are the two you would go to)
Why it's BradyYou can make excuses for Manning having no D, but they've had a decent D, not dominant. But, that team is built to win on O. They're top pick year after year was spent on O. The money was spent on O. They were built to win with Peyton and the O. When the pressure was on him, he folded. Don't get me wrong, I still think he's a great QB, and will get one, not this year, because I think that he'll miss Wayne and Edge more than others are saying.
But, matching up against Tom Brady, Brady is just better. He makes the players around him better. Manning is better because of the players around him, IMHO. Brady has never had and Edge in the backfield, never had a Harrison/Wayne combo, checking down to two great pass catching tight ends. Yes, the tight ends were there lhere last year, but they had to block.
Brady's pocket presence is second to none. His ability to take a half step to avoid a rush is unparalleled. It's what caught my eye his first year in playing. He is always looking down the field. He has only had one bad game in the playoffs, and that was last year in Denver, and they still had a chance to win, with a roster riddled with IR players, largely because of him.
If I'm a GM, knowing what I know, it's a no brainer. even money, I take Tom Brady to build my team around. Manning is a better pure passer, but the intangibles make Tom Brady a better QB.
Vintage_Football
Footballguy
Amen. Everything you just said...thats why I got brady,..that and they'll probably still be playing weeks 14, 15, 16. So I can "Lock it up",.."Championship". 
franks&beans
Footballguy
Since you asked in the NFL, not for my fantasy team I say Brady. Manning has had the offensive weapons and has come up empty. Brady has won with a cast of characters that not only may not have started for the Colts, but they may not have made the team. Brady has the ability to win, Manning has yet to show it.For my fantasy team, give me Manning, although Brady is not as far behind as he used to be.
The Little Man on the Boat
Footballguy
Name one QB who has had better weapons around him over the past 3 years than Manning.
Brady is easily a better QB than Manning.
Brady is easily a better QB than Manning.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Because he's not Jesus?Noahs Troopers said:What's your reasoning?
Hellfire Snail
Footballguy
Isn't he, though? Isn't he?Because he's not Jesus?Noahs Troopers said:What's your reasoning?
The Little Man on the Boat
Footballguy
We are putting Brady above Manning because Brady is purely better.It should be PAINFULLY obvious by now.People aren't as smart as they thought they were around here.Brady 65
Manning 52
Should I go ahead and make the Manning vs. Dilfer poll?
valhallan
Footballguy
Isn't he, though? Isn't he?Because he's not Jesus?Noahs Troopers said:What's your reasoning?
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
I'm just curious (and sorry if this is a hijack) which HOF QB is more comparible to Brady.
Aikmen or Montana.
Aikmen or Montana.
seahawk 17
Footballguy
I voted Brady, he's hotter. 
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Stylistically, that's be Montana, imo. Aikman, while he didn't have the biggest arm in terms of distance, was still regarded as a strong-armed QB; he could just laser those deep out patters. Big, sturdy pocket passer. And, while I'd put Aikman up there as one of the five best QBs in my generation (Montana, Marino, Manning, Aikman, Kelly in no particular order), his 3 SBs were less on his shoulders than the SBs that Montana and Brady won. As an aside, there's no doubt that while Montana benefited from a gifted team around him (Rice, Taylor, Craig, O-line), it wasn't near the dominant group of players that Aikman enjoyed across the board. Brady played for a team that I think has been vastly under-rated over the years in terms of talent; but, it's clear that he had less pieces to work with than either of the other two.Brady's a little less wound up than Aikman, which puts him closer to Montana in my eyes. So, I vote Montana. This should be a pole.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
please explain how you missed the exact same thread on this topic started today. TIA.
switz
Footballguy
switz
Footballguy
Philip Rivers/Drew Brees, maybe no Harrison, but LT has been better than Edge/Rhodes/Addai, and Gates better than all Indy TEs combined.
switz
Footballguy
Really? I didn't know that... Actually it was 5-11.Funny thing, maybe it wasn't Brady, but Antowain Smith that led the turnaround.Kevin Faulk was the leading rusher with a whopping 570 yards in the 5-11 season. In the following season, they got a real running back, who rushed for 1157 yards.In the 5-11 season, Bledsoe passed for 3200 yards and scored 19 TDs... 13 INTsIn the next season Brady passed for 2800, scored 18 TDs and threw 12 INTsNot that big of a difference.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Stats dont tell the story. Some of you will never realize that.Really? I didn't know that... Actually it was 5-11.Funny thing, maybe it wasn't Brady, but Antowain Smith that led the turnaround.Kevin Faulk was the leading rusher with a whopping 570 yards in the 5-11 season. In the following season, they got a real running back, who rushed for 1157 yards.In the 5-11 season, Bledsoe passed for 3200 yards and scored 19 TDs... 13 INTsIn the next season Brady passed for 2800, scored 18 TDs and threw 12 INTsNot that big of a difference.
Yet you rely on Manning's stats during the playoffs to insist Brady is better...hmm...Stats dont tell the story. Some of you will never realize that.Really? I didn't know that... Actually it was 5-11.Funny thing, maybe it wasn't Brady, but Antowain Smith that led the turnaround.Kevin Faulk was the leading rusher with a whopping 570 yards in the 5-11 season. In the following season, they got a real running back, who rushed for 1157 yards.In the 5-11 season, Bledsoe passed for 3200 yards and scored 19 TDs... 13 INTsIn the next season Brady passed for 2800, scored 18 TDs and threw 12 INTsNot that big of a difference.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Yet you rely on Manning's stats during the playoffs to insist Brady is better...hmm...Stats dont tell the story. Some of you will never realize that.Really? I didn't know that... Actually it was 5-11.Funny thing, maybe it wasn't Brady, but Antowain Smith that led the turnaround.Kevin Faulk was the leading rusher with a whopping 570 yards in the 5-11 season. In the following season, they got a real running back, who rushed for 1157 yards.In the 5-11 season, Bledsoe passed for 3200 yards and scored 19 TDs... 13 INTsIn the next season Brady passed for 2800, scored 18 TDs and threw 12 INTsNot that big of a difference.
You couldnt be further from the truth. Brady is better because his team wins in the playoffs and his offense typically does not underperform. Mannings offense averages 25-28 pts during the regular season and then predominantly scores less than 20 pts in the playoffs including a couple where they scored 0 and 3.Mannings offense (because we agree he owns the offense) scored 23, 15, 38, and 29 in this playoffs and he won his first title. Congratulations to him and the rest of the Colts.He beat the Pats this year and that makes him better than Brady this year. Brady's body of work (3 titles) is still better.
CalBear
Footballguy
From 2003-2005, the Colts averaged 27.5 points per game in the playoffs. The Pats? 24.875 over the same stretch, and it's lower if you include 2001.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Yet in the 3 games in which the Manning led Colts were eliminated, the Colts scored 14, 3, and 18 points. It doesnt matter if you score 45 against Denver in the WC round and follow it up with 3 against the Pats. Yes, you have a good average. Manning would not get nearly the grief he gets if the Colts were eliminated in shoot outs in which the Colts scored 30 or more points. The Colts get eliminated when Manning fails to lead the offense to at least 20 points.
So the argument is that Brady is better b/c he has 3 rings to Manning's one? Do you consider Teddy Bruschi a better LB than Ray Lewis?Yet you rely on Manning's stats during the playoffs to insist Brady is better...hmm...Stats dont tell the story. Some of you will never realize that.Really? I didn't know that... Actually it was 5-11.Funny thing, maybe it wasn't Brady, but Antowain Smith that led the turnaround.Kevin Faulk was the leading rusher with a whopping 570 yards in the 5-11 season. In the following season, they got a real running back, who rushed for 1157 yards.In the 5-11 season, Bledsoe passed for 3200 yards and scored 19 TDs... 13 INTsIn the next season Brady passed for 2800, scored 18 TDs and threw 12 INTsNot that big of a difference.
You couldnt be further from the truth. Brady is better because his team wins in the playoffs and his offense typically does not underperform. Mannings offense averages 25-28 pts during the regular season and then predominantly scores less than 20 pts in the playoffs including a couple where they scored 0 and 3.Mannings offense (because we agree he owns the offense) scored 23, 15, 38, and 29 in this playoffs and he won his first title. Congratulations to him and the rest of the Colts.He beat the Pats this year and that makes him better than Brady this year. Brady's body of work (3 titles) is still better.
No, not that big of a difference. But, just like the Manning playoff scoring average is skewed by huge games, so is the Brady average. Bledsoes stats were over 16 games, in his 7th NFL season. Bradys were over 14 in his first NFL season as a starter. Also, four of the INT's were in one game in Denver, the other 8 were over the remaining 13. Not a bad first campaign. Minimizing mistakes, capitalizing on opportunities. That's what makes him great. That was his first year, and he's only gotten better.Really? I didn't know that... Actually it was 5-11.Funny thing, maybe it wasn't Brady, but Antowain Smith that led the turnaround.Kevin Faulk was the leading rusher with a whopping 570 yards in the 5-11 season. In the following season, they got a real running back, who rushed for 1157 yards.In the 5-11 season, Bledsoe passed for 3200 yards and scored 19 TDs... 13 INTsIn the next season Brady passed for 2800, scored 18 TDs and threw 12 INTsNot that big of a difference.
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