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P.S.A. For Your Job - Air Conditioner Information (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ChiefD
- Start date
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
thanks. also have a gas fireplace so that could be an additional heat source in a freeze.
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
Osaurus
Footballguy
Not that I’ve ever noticed. I’ve only ever had a heat pump in FL and my humidity is usually in the low 50s
ChiefD
Footballguy
Yeah, this. In the summer time it should act like a normal air conditioner. So it will pull the same humidity out of the house just like an air conditioner would.
dkp993
Footballguy
@ChiefD - I live in SoCal and have a dual unit AC. House was built in the mid 90’s. 1 unit, air for upstairs, was replaced (exterior shell and all, whole unit) in 2016, the other, downstairs air, is (was) the original. Last yr the original one was so loud when turn on you couldn’t watch TV in the house. A short time later it stopped working all together. We replaced the condenser and all is well.
This year when kicking the systems on for the first time after winter the newer unit is now all of a sudden really loud (worked perfectly and quiet last year), very mechanical grind-y sound. Could it really be taking a dump on me only 7 years in? Or is it just in need of a simple maintenance?* The brand is Guardian. TIA.
* yes, I realize you’re diagnosing this via a thread and not in person. So not holding you to any educated guesses.
This year when kicking the systems on for the first time after winter the newer unit is now all of a sudden really loud (worked perfectly and quiet last year), very mechanical grind-y sound. Could it really be taking a dump on me only 7 years in? Or is it just in need of a simple maintenance?* The brand is Guardian. TIA.
* yes, I realize you’re diagnosing this via a thread and not in person. So not holding you to any educated guesses.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
My A/C unit for the main level isn’t working.
I’m trying to pretend it just needs to be hosed off/reset.
Might be in the market for two new systems. I’ve been dreading this day.
I’m trying to pretend it just needs to be hosed off/reset.
Might be in the market for two new systems. I’ve been dreading this day.
PIK95
Footballguy
Change your filter/clean condenser?
ChiefD
Footballguy
Sorry - I looked at this over the weekend and meant to answer yesterday.
I'd definitely clean it but a mechanical grind-y sound is never good. Could be the condenser motor or fan getting out of balance. I'd probably call someone for that. And yeah, it's possible 7 years in for something like that to go.
Not sure of the warranty on Guardian but your guy can check to see if the parts are covered.
ChiefD
Footballguy
How old is the equipment? And what city are you located in?
dkp993
Footballguy
Thanks, appreciate it.
PIK95
Footballguy
You have any old Rheam compressors that work laying around? Apparently mine is toast.
ChiefD
Footballguy
No, I do not.You have any old Rheam compressors that work laying around? Apparently mine is toast.
You might be able to get one online. A lot of times there will be a model and serial number of the compressor on the compressor itself. Most manufacturers use the same compressor. Not sure if Rheem does or not.
If you can find the model number post it here and I can search for you.
needanap
Footballguy
Replacing my 20 year old AC units and 20 year old furnaces in Southern California. Got an estimate through Costco Lennox promotion for 2 EL180NE furnaces and 2 ML17 (5 ton and 3 ton). After all the discounts was roughly $26K for everything. We have solar so salesman suggested we did not need the most energy efficient AC since what we are getting will be much better than we are replacing and our solar should cover it. Not a heavy user of either AC or heat.
I have another recommended vendor (non Costco) coming out but was wondering if the $26K is reasonable. Thanks so much for any insight.
I have another recommended vendor (non Costco) coming out but was wondering if the $26K is reasonable. Thanks so much for any insight.
ChiefD
Footballguy
I’d have to see the bids to tell you for sure. At first glance it seems a bit high. PM sent.
needanap
Footballguy
Just spoke to the other recommended guy and he said he would be around $18K so I am going to pass on the Costco "deal". The Costco estimate was actually $36K, but the Costco 15% discount card and a 12% cash discount brought it down to ~$26K. I appreciate the quick response!
Doug B
Footballguy
@ChiefD , this thread has been a treasure trove - thanks for starting it and responding to the queries.
Quick question about the general capabilities of home central A/C: I've read that if your home's A/C is cooling your home to 20-22 degrees cooler than the outside air temperature, your A/C is working as intended even if it's not getting to the thermostat's set point. Do you feel like that's generally true?
For a real-life example: Current air temperature here is 95F, thermostat inside is set to 74F and the indoor air temperature reading (also shown on thermostat) is 74F. The indoor air temp will not get below 74F regardless of how long the A/C runs. Outside temp is supposed to peak at 97-98F in a few hours. Cloudless sky, full sun, no tree shade on the roof or anything. The home is just baking.
Now, to be clear: The A/C vents in the home still feel like they blow nice, cold air like normal (though I haven't held a thermometer up to the vents to get a direct reading). The home is still comfortable -- it doesn't feel balmy or stuffy. It's just a matter of the thermostat indoor temp reading not getting below 74F.
A week or two ago, when the high temperatures were more in the low 90s, there was some cloud cover on most days, and even a little scattered rain here and there ... the thermostat would reliably get down to 72F (or even 70F when the kids fooled with it).
What I'm trying to avoid is a situation where we set the thermostat to 72F and forget it all day, leaving the system for running for ~18 hours at a stretch. When I'm home, I make sure the A/C has significant "breaks" in the mornings and part of the night. Right now, it had a break from around 11:00 am - 11:45 am. Indoor temp got up to 75F and I let it come back on, set at 74F so that if it did get down to 73 it would cut off and give itself a break. If it can't cool to less than 74, though, it will probably stay running till after sunset (about 9.0 - 9.5 consecutive hours) -- which I would like to avoid.
Quick question about the general capabilities of home central A/C: I've read that if your home's A/C is cooling your home to 20-22 degrees cooler than the outside air temperature, your A/C is working as intended even if it's not getting to the thermostat's set point. Do you feel like that's generally true?
For a real-life example: Current air temperature here is 95F, thermostat inside is set to 74F and the indoor air temperature reading (also shown on thermostat) is 74F. The indoor air temp will not get below 74F regardless of how long the A/C runs. Outside temp is supposed to peak at 97-98F in a few hours. Cloudless sky, full sun, no tree shade on the roof or anything. The home is just baking.
Now, to be clear: The A/C vents in the home still feel like they blow nice, cold air like normal (though I haven't held a thermometer up to the vents to get a direct reading). The home is still comfortable -- it doesn't feel balmy or stuffy. It's just a matter of the thermostat indoor temp reading not getting below 74F.
A week or two ago, when the high temperatures were more in the low 90s, there was some cloud cover on most days, and even a little scattered rain here and there ... the thermostat would reliably get down to 72F (or even 70F when the kids fooled with it).
What I'm trying to avoid is a situation where we set the thermostat to 72F and forget it all day, leaving the system for running for ~18 hours at a stretch. When I'm home, I make sure the A/C has significant "breaks" in the mornings and part of the night. Right now, it had a break from around 11:00 am - 11:45 am. Indoor temp got up to 75F and I let it come back on, set at 74F so that if it did get down to 73 it would cut off and give itself a break. If it can't cool to less than 74, though, it will probably stay running till after sunset (about 9.0 - 9.5 consecutive hours) -- which I would like to avoid.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
Yes, that is correct.
So you are on the right track. Some things that can help:
1. Close blinds and drapes.
2. If you have a two story house make sure all the doors upstairs stay closed all day. That keeps the cold air trapped in there and not tumble down the staircase since cold air drops.
3. Keep garage doors closed during the day.
4. Make sure your filter is clean
5. Make sure the outdoor condenser is clean. You can wash off the outside coils with a garden house and sprayer. (no pressure washer as that can damage the fins).
Doug B
Footballguy
We're good on items 1-4 on your list. As for item 5 (hosing off the condenser coils) -- is it necessary to remove the grated cover off the top, set aside the fan & condenser motor, and hose it all out from the inside? Or is hosing off just the outside of the coils sufficient?
For a visual, the outside unit is just a basic Payne condenser/compressor unit (pic). Vintage 2010.
belljr
Footballguy
@ChiefD
I'm sure I mentioned this before but i've had countless hours and tech check out my system and none can figure it out. It's been cleaned, checked, etc etc,
Of course its always working when they show up. So every once in a while my system freezes (like there is a clogged filter) and the temp won't go down, its running but not cooling. If I look outside I can see the ice on the line near the unit. Now sometimes if I dont catch it it will eventually correct itself, and work properly.
Or is I notice it I turn everything off for like 30-60 minutes - turn back on - everything works again with no issues.
This happens a a few times a year.
Any idea?
I'm sure I mentioned this before but i've had countless hours and tech check out my system and none can figure it out. It's been cleaned, checked, etc etc,
Of course its always working when they show up. So every once in a while my system freezes (like there is a clogged filter) and the temp won't go down, its running but not cooling. If I look outside I can see the ice on the line near the unit. Now sometimes if I dont catch it it will eventually correct itself, and work properly.
Or is I notice it I turn everything off for like 30-60 minutes - turn back on - everything works again with no issues.
This happens a a few times a year.
Any idea?
ChiefD
Footballguy
Nah, you shouldn't need to. It would help to do that but normally I just wash the outside part of the coils on my AC.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Normally a frozen system happens for a few reasons:
1. Low on freon
2. Really dirty filter
3. Really dirty condenser
4. Intermittent flow from the TXV. The TXV regulates the freon flow on the system. It's usually installed right outside the evap coil on the inside. As they get older they can clog up, so you'll have the freon flow fine, and then all of a sudden the flow stops, yet the system keeps running. So that can cause a freezing of the system.
5. Your furnace blower is starting to slow down or having intermittent issues. Sometimes as the blower motor gets older it will move slower at times as it wears out. During those times as the blower slows less air is blown across the indoor coil, which will freeze it up.
6. Condenser motor. Same thing as 5.
I'm guessing they've checked all this, but my money would be on #4 - if your system has a TXV. They are tricky to diagnose.
belljr
Footballguy
Thanks. If those are my options, I agree it's probably four because I know at least I was told everything else is checked and I did a few of those myself also
Doug B
Footballguy
Thanks for the responses
This afternoon, the indoor temperature reading on the thermostat finally gave a degree back -- it held firm at 74F until the outside temp hit 98F. Then the thermostat ticked up to 75F inside temp. So about 23 degrees "cooling power" for our central air. If it ever rains or gets cloudy again, 23 degrees will be plenty.
FatMax
Member
Thanks for the responses
This afternoon, the indoor temperature reading on the thermostat finally gave a degree back -- it held firm at 74F until the outside temp hit 98F. Then the thermostat ticked up to 75F inside temp. So about 23 degrees "cooling power" for our central air. If it ever rains or gets cloudy again, 23 degrees will be plenty.
I guess I'm just lucky with my unit. Last year, in early Sept, we had heat at and above 115, and I was able to keep the house at 75, and it still cycled off occasionally ... though not much.
ChiefD
Footballguy
It's also possible that your house was designed to a different spec. In some parts of the country they will design to a 30 degree differential. Or when someone builds a house they can tell the builder:Thanks for the responses
This afternoon, the indoor temperature reading on the thermostat finally gave a degree back -- it held firm at 74F until the outside temp hit 98F. Then the thermostat ticked up to 75F inside temp. So about 23 degrees "cooling power" for our central air. If it ever rains or gets cloudy again, 23 degrees will be plenty.
I guess I'm just lucky with my unit. Last year, in early Sept, we had heat at and above 115, and I was able to keep the house at 75, and it still cycled off occasionally ... though not much.
"I want an ice box in here during summer"
So they will design the system accordingly. Also, if you have a house that is shaded well from the east and south and west by tall trees - that helps a TON. My house is like this.. My AC bills are really reasonable thanks to a row of trees on the east, and I have a huge oak on my SW corner of my house and a huge oak on the NW corner of my house.
FatMax
Member
It's also possible that your house was designed to a different spec. In some parts of the country they will design to a 30 degree differential. Or when someone builds a house they can tell the builder:Thanks for the responses
This afternoon, the indoor temperature reading on the thermostat finally gave a degree back -- it held firm at 74F until the outside temp hit 98F. Then the thermostat ticked up to 75F inside temp. So about 23 degrees "cooling power" for our central air. If it ever rains or gets cloudy again, 23 degrees will be plenty.
I guess I'm just lucky with my unit. Last year, in early Sept, we had heat at and above 115, and I was able to keep the house at 75, and it still cycled off occasionally ... though not much.
"I want an ice box in here during summer"
So they will design the system accordingly. Also, if you have a house that is shaded well from the east and south and west by tall trees - that helps a TON. My house is like this.. My AC bills are really reasonable thanks to a row of trees on the east, and I have a huge oak on my SW corner of my house and a huge oak on the NW corner of my house.
Where I'm at 100F+ is pretty common. From May-Sept, probably 90% of the days are above 90F, and 30-35% are above 100F. So it could be a normal spec in this area. I'm definitely not helped by shade. Full sun on most of the house from 10am-6pm. I start to get some relief after that.
I did replace the unit about five years ago, and the difference between the old and new can't be overstated. Blow harder, colder, runs cheaper and quieter. It's probably paid for itself just in energy savings, but we keep it pretty cold. 73 daytime, 68 night.
Doug B
Footballguy
That's going to have to start being more of a thing here (New Orleans metro). I bet new construction maximizes the A/C.
When I was a kid, local high temps even in the low 90s were isolated -- you'd get them most summers, but not for weeks unbroken at a stretch. Last 20 years or so, it's pretty much a string of 90+ days from late May through late September. And a lot of times, it's the high 90s. Only breaks are days where it rains for hours on end -- then we might top out in the 88-90 range.
FatMax
Member
And you guys have that gawd-awful humidity too. I'm thankful that we don't
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
Got my new heat pump and I love it. It’s whisper quiet. Daily power usage is down 35% already, even with the stupid heat here in Central TX
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I’m just throwing this out there because my guy suggested moving both of mine farther apart and way from the wall when they’re replaced….
Could not have enough clearance above or too close to a wall, not allowing proper cooling/ventilation also cause bells issue? (I assume it would cause it to overheat and not freeze but
)
ChiefD
Footballguy
Not really, unless its close to a wall AND there are walls around two other sides. If it’s close to a wall but the rest of the AC is open to the yard it should be fine.
I’m just throwing this out there because my guy suggested moving both of mine farther apart and way from the wall when they’re replaced….
Could not have enough clearance above or too close to a wall, not allowing proper cooling/ventilation also cause bells issue? (I assume it would cause it to overheat and not freeze but
Are the SEERS what someone should be focused on when looking to see how well an AC unit will cool a house?
We had a smaller 1300 sq ft house years back and it had a 16 SEER unit.
Our new house is about 2100 sq ft and I think it's only a 14 SEER or so (we do plan on replacing it over the next year).
How big of a deal is the SEER number?
We had a smaller 1300 sq ft house years back and it had a 16 SEER unit.
Our new house is about 2100 sq ft and I think it's only a 14 SEER or so (we do plan on replacing it over the next year).
How big of a deal is the SEER number?
ChiefD
Footballguy
SEER only relates to the efficiency of the unit. The higher the SEER the less it costs to run typically.
The savings between a 14 and 16 SEER is minimal really.
ChiefD
Footballguy
No. If your house is more humid than you like you'll have to set your thermostat lower.
A lot of times you can do that for awhile, and once it pulls that humidity out you can start raise the stat a degree or two if it's too cold in the house. In the summer, I always tell people to make sure you keep blinds closed in areas where you get direct sunlight, and always keep the garage doors closed. And limit how many times doors are opened and closed.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
@ChiefD or anyone, I'd appreciate your input. I just got my roof replaced and it's suddenly noticeably more humid in the bonus room over our garage.
We had an AC guy come check out the split unit that handles that room and he found no issues. Good air flow, good temp, humidity, & dewpoint in the air coming from the AC. Good charge. Found some very minor leaks where all the lines branch off but said it would not cause the sudden change. AC guy did turn down the thermostat from 76 to 74 and before it even got down to 74 it was at 75 and the humidity in that room had already dropped from 64 to 57. This is Nashville area and it is definitely super humid in summer, but these are the same AC units we've had for years and they are apparently working correctly and we've never had noticeably higher humidity upstairs like this. Humidity reached 69 in this room today with the temp set at 75.
Old roof had box vents. New roof has ridge vents including one over this bonus room. I'm going to contact my roofer to see what they say but thought I'd run it by the FFA first to get some ideas.
So...any ideas?
ETA: I found one video where a roofer speculated this could happen because the AC is just turning on less often (because the attic is now ventilated better), and therefore AC running less = AC removes less moisture. Ugh. I have no way to prove/disprove that if my roofer says that. Would probably have to buy a dehumidifier or something.
We had an AC guy come check out the split unit that handles that room and he found no issues. Good air flow, good temp, humidity, & dewpoint in the air coming from the AC. Good charge. Found some very minor leaks where all the lines branch off but said it would not cause the sudden change. AC guy did turn down the thermostat from 76 to 74 and before it even got down to 74 it was at 75 and the humidity in that room had already dropped from 64 to 57. This is Nashville area and it is definitely super humid in summer, but these are the same AC units we've had for years and they are apparently working correctly and we've never had noticeably higher humidity upstairs like this. Humidity reached 69 in this room today with the temp set at 75.
Old roof had box vents. New roof has ridge vents including one over this bonus room. I'm going to contact my roofer to see what they say but thought I'd run it by the FFA first to get some ideas.
So...any ideas?
ETA: I found one video where a roofer speculated this could happen because the AC is just turning on less often (because the attic is now ventilated better), and therefore AC running less = AC removes less moisture. Ugh. I have no way to prove/disprove that if my roofer says that. Would probably have to buy a dehumidifier or something.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
Couple of quick questions:
1. Have you had your garage door open more than usual over the last couple of days?
2. When you got your roof replaced did they re-deck the whole thing? How many layers of shingles were on there before?
Van Dyman
Footballguy
1.) No, the garage door has not been open more than usual. FYI this has been mostly consistent over the last few weeks not days, since the new roof was installed.
2.) They did not re-deck the whole thing, just one small section (about 3' by 4') where the decking was visibly water-damaged. It was the home's original roof, 17 years old, so presumably one layer was there. Everything was removed down to the decking and new stuff put on.
ChiefD
Footballguy
The roofing video guy's theory does make some sense. With the vents at the top of the house the hot air build up should lesson in the attic space above.
And really, that's the only thing that has changed, since the roof composition itself sounds like about the same.
If the AC tech found that the system is operating normally than to me that explanation makes sense.
And really, that's the only thing that has changed, since the roof composition itself sounds like about the same.
If the AC tech found that the system is operating normally than to me that explanation makes sense.
ChiefD
Footballguy
I will also add: If Nashville's weather is anything like Kansas City this year, it's been relatively mild (for a summer) until about a week ago. And then it's like a humidity bomb went off coupled with some upper 90's/100 degree days. It's been a couple of summers here since we have had this.
So it could just be that adding a ton of extra humidity in the air right now.
So it could just be that adding a ton of extra humidity in the air right now.
PIK95
Footballguy
My outside pipe thing next to my central air box was turning white and freezing all spring. AC was still working, just noisy. I clean everything and change the filter often. my guy came over after I cleaned everything and he added a lil freon or whatever it was called to see if that would help. He did some tests, and said I needed a new compressor. I didn't rush him, as it was still keeping my house ice cold. Fast forward to me coming back from the trip and now it's not freezing or making noise anymore. It has been very hot and humid, and this thing is suddenly purring it seems. I almost wondered if he just came and fixed it and didn't tell me. Don't think so, but to lazy to open it and find out.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
ChiefD
Footballguy
I doubt he just replaced a compressor without you knowing it. That would be like a $2000 job.
Sometimes if an AC is a pound or two low of freon just adding that will help it cool better. But it will leak out again. That pipe freezing in a classic sign of leaking freon. Can also be a filthy filter or really dirty air conditioner.
PIK95
Footballguy
But the pipe stopped freezing a few weeks ago. Haven't froze since. It's an older system, he quoted me 1kish for a used one installed. He's friend of a friend. System is super clean and he said no leaks fwiw. Is it possible the compressor just sorted itself out, or prefers the warm weather, lol. Thx
ChiefD
Footballguy
Yeah, the pipe would stop freezing if he added freon.
But if he didn't change the system, there is probably a leak unless the service valves were loose or something. Freon doesn't get used up like gasoline. If you are low, it's because of a leak.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
@ChiefD
Ok...I'm getting pretty worried. Inside humidity has been 70-75% all day. AC guy only checked the upstairs (split) unit since the humidity was noticed upstairs. Now I'm thinking the main downstairs unit might be the issue.
I have a a cheapo hygrometer but it seems fairly accurate (within a few percent of the fancy one the AC guy had). I put the hygrometer on two of the downstairs registers both show 80%. I'm not sure if that's a good/bad way to check it but seemed worth a shot. What could this be? The downstairs unit is keeping the temp we selected on the thermostat. I know nothing about these things and am about to go into the crawlspace to see if the return duct looks ok (not that I know what to look for).
Any ideas?
FWIW the roofers covered the AC units with plastic tarp and the indoor temp reached 95 before I turned off the AC and got them to uncover the units. I don't know if running the units under those conditions could have damaged them, or if the roofers could have done something (falling debris, accidentally kicked a copper tube, etc.). Roofing company's response was "no roofing components on any roofing system affect indoor humidity".
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Were the units running while covered?
Humidity that high is very bad if it stays that way for more than a day or two. If it stays like that for a week you’re going to have mold everywhere.
