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Packer fans - what say ye to Bob McGinn today? (1 Viewer)

CletiusMaximus

Footballguy
Some love him, probably many more hate him among Packer nation, but none can deny that long-time Packer beat writer Bob McGinn calls it like he sees it and usually backs it up. For those that can't get the Milwaukee paper today, here are the key excerpts:

Big changes might be necessary

Time to face cold facts about Favre

Those who wield the power for National Football League teams have been known to turn on coaches and players at a moment's notice. Fear and paranoia always bubble just beneath the surface in pro football, and often they bubble over after catastrophic defeat.

The general manager in Green Bay, Ted Thompson, comes across outwardly as always in control of his emotions. But as competitive as Thompson is, you know well his guts are churning and probably won't stop churning until he makes a move that in his mind helps prevent this from ever happening again.

If I were Thompson, in no particular order, my agenda would be three-pronged:

1. What to do about quarterback Brett Favre?

2. What to do about defensive coordinator Bob Sanders?

3. What to do about coach Mike McCarthy's zone running scheme?

***

NFL people get very narrow-minded when Super Bowl berths are denied. In Green Bay, they know that Favre was awful in the second half and overtime (44.1 passer rating) and that Eli Manning's passer rating was 118.5 in the same span. And people like Thompson undoubtedly wonder if the time is right to cut the cord and go with promising Aaron Rodgers, who entered the league just one year after Manning but now is 59 starts behind him.

Rodgers is Thompson's guy. Don't forget that.

***

From this point forward, Thompson and McCarthy will have to live with the fact that nothing short of the Super Bowl will be good enough for fans. And having watched Favre look so cold and so old twice in the last month, they probably have doubts how in the world he could ever win another NFC Championship Game in frigid weather.

After leading a short touchdown drive in the third quarter, Favre participated in five more series. Until you examine those five series play-by-play, it's hard to realize just how poorly he played.

Of the 13 passes that Favre threw, a strict evaluator might give him two pluses, seven minuses and four OKs. Despite solid protection, he was locking onto his first read almost regardless of down and distance. The bottom line was three first downs, 63 yards, a field goal, two interceptions and two punts. Given how efficiently the often rattled Manning was performing regardless of the harshest weather and pressure, Favre's failures were startling, to say the least.

On the decisive play, Favre took a rare seven-step drop as his six blockers stopped a six-man rush. It was second and 8 from the New York 28 to start overtime. A lifetime of quarterbacking should have guided him toward a wise decision and the proper read.

Ryan Grant leaks out on the check-down as Donald Lee leaks out and takes the only linebacker in coverage with him. Flip it to uncovered Grant and it's a first down at the 40.

On the left outside, Greg Jennings is sprinting beyond aging R.W. McQuarters and away from the safety on a deep post-corner route. There's also separation for Favre to see between Lee and linebacker Reggie Torbor. There is almost no separation between Corey Webster and Donald Driver, who hasn't gotten a clean release and is trying to turn it back into a 15-yard out.

Favre selects the worst of four options, throws a semi-floater to Driver that's both short and on the wrong side, Webster intercepts it and the rest is history. So is Favre's composite rating of 59.5 in his last six playoff losses.

For most of 2007, Favre performed at a magnificent level some never thought possible at his age. But in the moment of truth, with a precious Super Bowl berth at hand, he was horrible.

***

One of the reasons why Manning aced his rite of passage was the failure of Sanders both to disrupt Manning in the pocket and disrupt his receivers.

Plaxico Burress ate Al Harris for dinner, but that's Al Harris. Sanders has coached him for two years. What really did he expect?

Just before kickoff, Harris told the Fox sideline reporter, "I'm going to do what I do. . . . They know when they come to Green Bay, we play bump-and-run."

All night long Harris basically lined up across from Burress using inside technique and played man-to-man with no help.

It might have been worth trying Charles Woodson on Burress, and Sanders should have done so after Harris went in the tank, but with Woodson's bad knee the results probably wouldn't have been much better.

Obviously, Sanders couldn't play Cover 2 because Harris cannot play zone. He might have had Harris play an outside technique and had Atari Bigby overplay toward that side. Burress would have had his bell rung by Bigby on slants, and the back-shoulder fades wouldn't have been possible because Harris could have seen them coming.

But Sanders didn't use much if any of that. His run defense was so porous that he needed Bigby in the box. But when Bigby kept giving his intentions away by committing too early, Manning had an easy read to sit back and keep playing catch with Burress.

Sanders did rush more than usual (five or more on 34.8% of passes), but his vanilla blitz package isn't exactly cutting edge.

Across the field, Giants coordinator Steve Spagnuolo kept Favre off-balance with a daring, multiple package. He kept blitzing slots and cornerbacks, something Sanders almost never does.

If Harris would have blitzed from the edge, the linebacker would have rushed out to the flat and Nick Collins would have come over from the deep middle. Collins has more than enough speed to cover deep, too.

Under Jim Bates in 2005, Harris was an effective blitzer with three sacks, three knockdowns and three hurries. Before that, Ed Donatell successfully incorporated safeties into his rushes.

In two years under Sanders, Harris and Woodson have combined for one sack, no knockdowns and two hurries. Granted, it's better to have Harris covering than rushing, but defense is about being unpredictable and the Packers were fatally predictable against New York.

Early in the season, the contention here was that this would be a top-five defense by year's end. It finished 11th (tied for sixth in points, tied for 17th in takeaways) despite playing just two teams with top-10 offenses.

In most walks of life, an exemplary employee such as Sanders would have done nothing to be let go. But the NFL often is a cruel, unfair business.

With Gregg Williams being fired in Washington, he'll be looking to take the best available coordinator's gig. The Redskins were paying him a king's ransom, but the Packers can spend with anybody, especially for someone of Williams' proven ability to customize Bill Belichick-like game plans and to inspire players.

***

Packers-Giants spoke volumes about the two running games.

With their finesse-based zone scheme and more athletic linemen, the Packers couldn't knock anybody off the ball. Moreover, the precision and timing necessary to execute zone plays went haywire amid the scrums of an arctic night.

The Giants, on the other hand, ran the power and gap-type plays that Green Bay ran so well with Mike Sherman and Larry Beightol. Coach Tom Coughlin persisted with his run, and by the end his bigger blockers were in control of the line of scrimmage.

In New Orleans, McCarthy's run game featured both power and zone plays minus the back-side cutting used by Denver and now the Packers.

At McCarthy's behest, Jeff Jagodzinski brought the zone scheme to Green Bay in 2006 but the Packers still used some power plays (double-team on the play side with a back-side puller) largely because of Ahman Green. All the power was eliminated this year, and the zone plays worked once Ryan Grant put on the saddle.

Still, there's a reason why the Packers converted an NFL-worst 35.7% on third-and fourth-and-1, and why McCarthy passed on 17 of 19 third-and-2 situations. And it's the same reason they couldn't even function last Sunday.

***

The squandered opportunity last Sunday will long be remembered, but such an opportunity could come again sooner than later. Whether it does or not rests on how well Thompson fares with the hard decisions ahead.
 
Packer beat writer Bob McGinn: For most of 2007, Favre performed at a magnificent level some never thought possible at his age. But in the moment of truth, with a precious Super Bowl berth at hand, he was horrible.
I love this... Favre played great all year but made some mistakes against one of the best defenses in the league, so the journalistic hue and cry is to go with an unproven QB next year instead.Me, I like the %'s of going with a guy that played great for 90%+ of the season and got his team within one game of the SB, but that's just me.
 
What a homer. Why not just write an article that says, "my team lost the NFC title game a week ago and I'm finally sober enough to type."

Also, this is a great example of why it should be your blanket policy to avoid any 'news' story that has "may" in the title. The other sure clue that you're reading one guy's opinion? "Some say..."

Any 'news' article that has both is sure to be a doozy: "Some Say Aliens May Land on Lambeau Field Sunday"

 
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I read McGinn's article in the Milwaukee Urinal this morning. What a hack. The Packers make it to the NFC championship game, probably two years ahead of schedule with the young talent they have, and he suggests big changes are needed. Favre had one of his best seasons and he suggests it's time to let him go.

 
Packer beat writer Bob McGinn: For most of 2007, Favre performed at a magnificent level some never thought possible at his age. But in the moment of truth, with a precious Super Bowl berth at hand, he was horrible.
I love this... Favre played great all year but made some mistakes against one of the best defenses in the league, so the journalistic hue and cry is to go with an unproven QB next year instead.Me, I like the %'s of going with a guy that played great for 90%+ of the season and got his team within one game of the SB, but that's just me.
:goodposting: Plus the thing is with Rodgers is his durability. He played for a half against NE in 2006 and broke his foot and missed the rest of the year. This year he played a very good half against Dallas but then pulls a hammy in practice and is the 3rd QB for the rest of the year. The Packers had to go pick up a backup. I don't think the Packers should be in a hurry to show Brett the door.Plus this was the 2nd or 3rd coldest game (depends who you talk to) ever in Lambeau. He seemed just fine the week before with the temps in the 20's.
 
love McGinn

agree or disagree i always like to hear what he has to say. he breaks down more tape than anyone else writing about the Packers.. that alone makes him worth reading.

 
Loved the accurate breakdown of Favre. While most everyone has a lovefest with #4, this was reality.

 
It is pretty bad when people complain about this Packers team that achieved a 14-4 record and losing in the NFC Conference Championship game when all expectations pointed to an 8-8 or even a 9-7 record at best with maybe a first round loss in the playoffs. I would hate to see McGinn writing for the Dolphins or Falcons. McGinn has been a good writer concerning the Packers but come on, this season was great and complaining about it is grasping at straws.

 
All great posts about this article...

GB wasn't projected as a 14-4 team, one game from the super bowl... the fact that they were the 2nd best team in the NFC is amazing in itself considering the hole Sherman put us in when he was GM

Yes, Favre did fail in the biggest games of the season (Dallas he was awful and in the NFC champ game he blew it), BUT he came up huge in so many other games. For example- could Aaron Rodgers have came up in OT versus the Broncos? Could Rodgers have responded after down 14-0 in two minutes to go for 6 straight scoring drives against SEA in the playoffs? No one knows, but I would pick Favre ahead of him if given that choice.

GB fans are so spoiled when it comes to the QB position in the last 16 seasons. We've had the same starting QB in every single game. Look at other teams around the league- ATL, CHI, SF, MIA, BUF... we should feel lucky to have the same QB in every game. Why be in such a hurry to show him the door? Because he made a mistake, something he's done for his entire career- go big or go home?

I'll be the first one to admit, losing Favre for the DAL game was the best thing that could have happened. Rodgers came in and stuck to the game plan. He wasn't rattled and he was a very very good QB. Had Favre stayed in we would have gotten destroyed; Rodgers gave us a shot. But to sit there and say it's time to show him the door... I'm not that ignorant to think that what's next (Rodgers or whoever) will be any better than Favre. Favre's our best shot at winning a superbowl.

As someone else said, it'd be funny to see him writing for ATL or MIA... :loco: just more evidence at how spoiled GB fans really are... it's time to wake up and realize what we have now is so rare, it's better to enjoy it while we can. Rodgers could be way worse and send us into a 5 year tailspin of no playoffs...

 
I have to be honest here. I haven't watched or read anything pertaining to football since last Sundays debacle.

I will read this later today though.

 
Yeah, good call getting rid of that zone blocking scheme. Any scheme that turns Ryan Grant into a stud must immediately be dismantled.

 
wdcrob said:
What a homer. Why not just write an article that says, "my team lost the NFC title game a week ago and I'm finally sober enough to type."Also, this is a great example of why it should be your blanket policy to avoid any 'news' story that has "may" in the title. The other sure clue that you're reading one guy's opinion? "Some say..."Any 'news' article that has both is sure to be a doozy: "Some Say Aliens May Land on Lambeau Field Sunday"
:rolleyes: A reporter says big changes are necessary and you guys give him credit. The guy is always an idiot. Always has been.
 
Terrible article by McGinn. Though..expected from him at times.

Yes...lets give the reigns over the Rodgers...with 2 new guards, and 3 others lineman learning to block again...forget that the ZB was progressing well down the stretch this year...forget that next year will pretty much make year 3 of this line being together.

While we are at it...lets get rid of the D-Coordinator over one game. I mean, they only had the #6 defense in points allowed (11th in yards allowed)...thats not good enough with all that youth they should be top 5 in every category...surely there is a coordinator available who can just come right in with this personnel and get us that.

Ugh...just overreactionary BS that was probably meant to cause a big overreaction with fans.

 
Isn't this fairly straightforward? Favre played great in nice weather. He played awful in really cold weather.

If the Packers are to make another Super Bowl, which is extremely unlikely, it will be difficult to do with homefield advantage at Lambeau where it's always Arctic this time of year.

 
It is pretty bad when people complain about this Packers team that achieved a 14-4 record and losing in the NFC Conference Championship game when all expectations pointed to an 8-8 or even a 9-7 record at best with maybe a first round loss in the playoffs. I would hate to see McGinn writing for the Dolphins or Falcons. McGinn has been a good writer concerning the Packers but come on, this season was great and complaining about it is grasping at straws.
McGinn is losing it. The only thing I agree with is scrapping the ZBS. Our tackles simply aren't cut out for it. Go back to the power run game for goodness sakes and pound away with Grant and Jackson. As for Brett, does he F up from time to time? Sure, show me a QB that doesn't. Brady stunk in the game against SD, but his team was able to bail him out. If the Pats lose that game they're calling for Brady's head just like they're calling for Brett's. This team was projected to go 8-8 at best. We had a helluva season. Could of it been better? Sure, but it's football. Someone's gonna lose each game. Too many things went wrong in that game to pin it all on #4. I'll be very happy if he decides to return for another season.
 
All great posts about this article...GB wasn't projected as a 14-4 team, one game from the super bowl... the fact that they were the 2nd best team in the NFC is amazing in itself considering the hole Sherman put us in when he was GMYes, Favre did fail in the biggest games of the season (Dallas he was awful and in the NFC champ game he blew it), BUT he came up huge in so many other games. For example- could Aaron Rodgers have came up in OT versus the Broncos? Could Rodgers have responded after down 14-0 in two minutes to go for 6 straight scoring drives against SEA in the playoffs? No one knows, but I would pick Favre ahead of him if given that choice.GB fans are so spoiled when it comes to the QB position in the last 16 seasons. We've had the same starting QB in every single game. Look at other teams around the league- ATL, CHI, SF, MIA, BUF... we should feel lucky to have the same QB in every game. Why be in such a hurry to show him the door? Because he made a mistake, something he's done for his entire career- go big or go home? I'll be the first one to admit, losing Favre for the DAL game was the best thing that could have happened. Rodgers came in and stuck to the game plan. He wasn't rattled and he was a very very good QB. Had Favre stayed in we would have gotten destroyed; Rodgers gave us a shot. But to sit there and say it's time to show him the door... I'm not that ignorant to think that what's next (Rodgers or whoever) will be any better than Favre. Favre's our best shot at winning a superbowl.As someone else said, it'd be funny to see him writing for ATL or MIA... :lmao: just more evidence at how spoiled GB fans really are... it's time to wake up and realize what we have now is so rare, it's better to enjoy it while we can. Rodgers could be way worse and send us into a 5 year tailspin of no playoffs...
Excellent post. Spoiled is right. Come on we could be the Bears and had, what 20 different starting QB's in the last 10 years? We're starting to sound like Yankee fans here. Win it all or fire everybody. :shrug:
 
Isn't this fairly straightforward? Favre played great in nice weather. He played awful in really cold weather. If the Packers are to make another Super Bowl, which is extremely unlikely, it will be difficult to do with homefield advantage at Lambeau where it's always Arctic this time of year.
Brett wasn't the only one to play bad in cold weather. Two crazy cold games. Bears and Giants. if I remember right the whole damn team stunk up the joint in both games. Were we in the Giant game til the end? Sure, but should we of been? Hell no, we should of been blown out of that game. It's a team game and I really wish people would stop pinning the whole game on Favre.
 
Isn't this fairly straightforward? Favre played great in nice weather. He played awful in really cold weather. If the Packers are to make another Super Bowl, which is extremely unlikely, it will be difficult to do with homefield advantage at Lambeau where it's always Arctic this time of year.
Brett wasn't the only one to play bad in cold weather. Two crazy cold games. Bears and Giants. if I remember right the whole damn team stunk up the joint in both games. Were we in the Giant game til the end? Sure, but should we of been? Hell no, we should of been blown out of that game. It's a team game and I really wish people would stop pinning the whole game on Favre.
Agreed...the defense was not great in either game.Look at the huge difference in TOP...and that was not all because of the offensive issues.They allowed a huge drive by Chicago to start that game (about 10 minutes or so)...and another big one in the Giants game. Just things you cannot keep doing.Not excusing Favre's play...but it was not all him.
 
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For those pointing out that the Packers exceeded expectations this year and we should all be happy about that and about how spoiled we are to have had Favre the past 16 years, of course you are correct. However, as McGinn makes clear, it is extremely rare to get such a great opportunity to go to a superbowl. After the game, everyone around me at Lambeau was toally devastated. On the drive home, we never discussed the game - it was as if it hadn't happened. It wasn't until I started interacting with other fans that I kept hearing the mantra of "hey, it was a great run this year right?" Of course there's no disagreeing, but I'm disgusted by that talk. Like Mr. Pack, I had not read or watched anything foootball-related until I opened yesterday's paper. I'm an old codger. The Packers won NFL championships the first three years of my life and then didn't return to the superbowl for 30 years. To be a 7 point favorite at Lambeau in the NFC Championship game and squander the chance should be a huge gut-punch to everyone in the organization and to every fan out there in Packerland. I don't necessarily agree with McGinn, but I think its perfectly appropriate to take a hard look at the reasons they lost that game and make whatever changes are necessary depending on that analysis. I expect TT is doing that right now, or at least hope he is.

 
I expect TT is doing that right now, or at least hope he is.
Of course he is. That's what good GMs do, and Thompson qualifies there.As for some of the things mentioned in this article. Losing Jags was a huge blow to the zone blocking scheme. Without him, they looked like they really lacked understanding of the scheme. I don't have a problem with them moving to a power scheme if it comes to that. We'll see.
 
Yeah, good call getting rid of that zone blocking scheme. Any scheme that turns Ryan Grant into a stud must immediately be dismantled.
:shrug: :lmao: It's like the 200 yards he put up against the Seahawks in the divisional round of the playoffs never happened.
 
It is pretty bad when people complain about this Packers team that achieved a 14-4 record and losing in the NFC Conference Championship game when all expectations pointed to an 8-8 or even a 9-7 record at best with maybe a first round loss in the playoffs. I would hate to see McGinn writing for the Dolphins or Falcons. McGinn has been a good writer concerning the Packers but come on, this season was great and complaining about it is grasping at straws.
McGinn is losing it. The only thing I agree with is scrapping the ZBS. Our tackles simply aren't cut out for it. Go back to the power run game for goodness sakes and pound away with Grant and Jackson. As for Brett, does he F up from time to time? Sure, show me a QB that doesn't. Brady stunk in the game against SD, but his team was able to bail him out. If the Pats lose that game they're calling for Brady's head just like they're calling for Brett's. This team was projected to go 8-8 at best. We had a helluva season. Could of it been better? Sure, but it's football. Someone's gonna lose each game. Too many things went wrong in that game to pin it all on #4. I'll be very happy if he decides to return for another season.
Zone blocking turned Grant into a stud RB, and now you want to dismantle it. With fans like you, it's no wonder McGinn still has a job.
 
I definitely think this article is all over-reaction. And a good deal is meant to fuel that reactionary fire with the readers.

HOWEVER, I will say this. The Pack is my 2nd favorite team, and #4 is my favorite player ever, not even close. In the Giants game though, i was sad. One of the greatest things about football is the conditions teams are faced with from time to time. It's always been the mantra that in bad winter weather at Lambeau the packers are outstanding and Favre dominates. No so, at least not anymore. To me, watching from afar in a warm living room it certainly appeared that Brett was affected by the cold worse than anyone. I mean, his facial expressions, decisions, movement, everything looked to be extraordinarily affected by the weather. I still think in the snow and "reasonable" temps #4 is superb. But in conditions like the last game...I think they are going to be doomed from the start. I think if they play Dallas in Dallas, the Pack is in the Super Bowl. That, my friends, is what sux most about this.

-s

 
It is pretty bad when people complain about this Packers team that achieved a 14-4 record and losing in the NFC Conference Championship game when all expectations pointed to an 8-8 or even a 9-7 record at best with maybe a first round loss in the playoffs. I would hate to see McGinn writing for the Dolphins or Falcons. McGinn has been a good writer concerning the Packers but come on, this season was great and complaining about it is grasping at straws.
McGinn is losing it. The only thing I agree with is scrapping the ZBS. Our tackles simply aren't cut out for it. Go back to the power run game for goodness sakes and pound away with Grant and Jackson. As for Brett, does he F up from time to time? Sure, show me a QB that doesn't. Brady stunk in the game against SD, but his team was able to bail him out. If the Pats lose that game they're calling for Brady's head just like they're calling for Brett's. This team was projected to go 8-8 at best. We had a helluva season. Could of it been better? Sure, but it's football. Someone's gonna lose each game. Too many things went wrong in that game to pin it all on #4. I'll be very happy if he decides to return for another season.
Zone blocking turned Grant into a stud RB, and now you want to dismantle it. With fans like you, it's no wonder McGinn still has a job.
Go take your shots someplace else. We all have our own opinions bud, and thats mine. We've struggled implementing that scheme ever since Jags left. Our tackles aren't built for the scheme and with their ages we're going to be drafting or signing new ones in the near future. Who knows who the guards will be. What I'm saying is it's easier to teach a power run game versus the ZBS and with the turnover on our line happening in the near future my opinion is the time is now to scrap it. Grant had a couple big games yes, is he a stud now? Takes more than a couple big games to reach stud status my friend.
 
I definitely think this article is all over-reaction. And a good deal is meant to fuel that reactionary fire with the readers.HOWEVER, I will say this. The Pack is my 2nd favorite team, and #4 is my favorite player ever, not even close. In the Giants game though, i was sad. One of the greatest things about football is the conditions teams are faced with from time to time. It's always been the mantra that in bad winter weather at Lambeau the packers are outstanding and Favre dominates. No so, at least not anymore. To me, watching from afar in a warm living room it certainly appeared that Brett was affected by the cold worse than anyone. I mean, his facial expressions, decisions, movement, everything looked to be extraordinarily affected by the weather. I still think in the snow and "reasonable" temps #4 is superb. But in conditions like the last game...I think they are going to be doomed from the start. I think if they play Dallas in Dallas, the Pack is in the Super Bowl. That, my friends, is what sux most about this.-s
Thats because they showed his facial expressions more than anyone else.And was it frustrations with the weather...or frustrations with how the game was going?I think the Giants WRs were affected quite a bit...alot of dropped balls on their side (game could have been much worse for the Pack).
 
It is pretty bad when people complain about this Packers team that achieved a 14-4 record and losing in the NFC Conference Championship game when all expectations pointed to an 8-8 or even a 9-7 record at best with maybe a first round loss in the playoffs. I would hate to see McGinn writing for the Dolphins or Falcons. McGinn has been a good writer concerning the Packers but come on, this season was great and complaining about it is grasping at straws.
McGinn is losing it. The only thing I agree with is scrapping the ZBS. Our tackles simply aren't cut out for it. Go back to the power run game for goodness sakes and pound away with Grant and Jackson. As for Brett, does he F up from time to time? Sure, show me a QB that doesn't. Brady stunk in the game against SD, but his team was able to bail him out. If the Pats lose that game they're calling for Brady's head just like they're calling for Brett's. This team was projected to go 8-8 at best. We had a helluva season. Could of it been better? Sure, but it's football. Someone's gonna lose each game. Too many things went wrong in that game to pin it all on #4. I'll be very happy if he decides to return for another season.
Zone blocking turned Grant into a stud RB, and now you want to dismantle it. With fans like you, it's no wonder McGinn still has a job.
Go take your shots someplace else. We all have our own opinions bud, and thats mine. We've struggled implementing that scheme ever since Jags left. Our tackles aren't built for the scheme and with their ages we're going to be drafting or signing new ones in the near future. Who knows who the guards will be. What I'm saying is it's easier to teach a power run game versus the ZBS and with the turnover on our line happening in the near future my opinion is the time is now to scrap it. Grant had a couple big games yes, is he a stud now? Takes more than a couple big games to reach stud status my friend.
Part of it is grant...part of it was the line was blocking much better down the stretch.And the problem is...the turnover on the line will be at the 2 tackles (that you are saying are not built for it). The youth on the interior seems to be built for that scheme...as does the guy in the backfield.
 
sho nuff said:
scott72 said:
switz said:
It is pretty bad when people complain about this Packers team that achieved a 14-4 record and losing in the NFC Conference Championship game when all expectations pointed to an 8-8 or even a 9-7 record at best with maybe a first round loss in the playoffs. I would hate to see McGinn writing for the Dolphins or Falcons. McGinn has been a good writer concerning the Packers but come on, this season was great and complaining about it is grasping at straws.
McGinn is losing it. The only thing I agree with is scrapping the ZBS. Our tackles simply aren't cut out for it. Go back to the power run game for goodness sakes and pound away with Grant and Jackson. As for Brett, does he F up from time to time? Sure, show me a QB that doesn't. Brady stunk in the game against SD, but his team was able to bail him out. If the Pats lose that game they're calling for Brady's head just like they're calling for Brett's. This team was projected to go 8-8 at best. We had a helluva season. Could of it been better? Sure, but it's football. Someone's gonna lose each game. Too many things went wrong in that game to pin it all on #4. I'll be very happy if he decides to return for another season.
Zone blocking turned Grant into a stud RB, and now you want to dismantle it. With fans like you, it's no wonder McGinn still has a job.
Go take your shots someplace else. We all have our own opinions bud, and thats mine. We've struggled implementing that scheme ever since Jags left. Our tackles aren't built for the scheme and with their ages we're going to be drafting or signing new ones in the near future. Who knows who the guards will be. What I'm saying is it's easier to teach a power run game versus the ZBS and with the turnover on our line happening in the near future my opinion is the time is now to scrap it. Grant had a couple big games yes, is he a stud now? Takes more than a couple big games to reach stud status my friend.
And the problem is...the turnover on the line will be at the 2 tackles (that you are saying are not built for it). The youth on the interior seems to be built for that scheme...as does the guy in the backfield.
I wouldn't be the mortgage on this. Yes, Tauscher and Clifton are the old guys, but the guard play was horrendous much of the season. Coston can't stay healthy for all his potential. Spitz is better suited for Center. Colledge just isn't very good. Moll is a tackle and shouldn't play guard. Need I go on?Beyond that, the scheme thing is a tad over blown. The Packers used power schemes and zone schemes this season, which has been documented. If they are going to do that, then you need to find guys who can block the power schemes. The guards certainly didn't appear all that capable. I'll be watching Ted Thompson's O line moves closely. It's the one area that Thompson has struggled to address adequately.
 
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switz said:
It is pretty bad when people complain about this Packers team that achieved a 14-4 record and losing in the NFC Conference Championship game when all expectations pointed to an 8-8 or even a 9-7 record at best with maybe a first round loss in the playoffs. I would hate to see McGinn writing for the Dolphins or Falcons. McGinn has been a good writer concerning the Packers but come on, this season was great and complaining about it is grasping at straws.
McGinn is losing it. The only thing I agree with is scrapping the ZBS. Our tackles simply aren't cut out for it. Go back to the power run game for goodness sakes and pound away with Grant and Jackson. As for Brett, does he F up from time to time? Sure, show me a QB that doesn't. Brady stunk in the game against SD, but his team was able to bail him out. If the Pats lose that game they're calling for Brady's head just like they're calling for Brett's. This team was projected to go 8-8 at best. We had a helluva season. Could of it been better? Sure, but it's football. Someone's gonna lose each game. Too many things went wrong in that game to pin it all on #4. I'll be very happy if he decides to return for another season.
Zone blocking turned Grant into a stud RB, and now you want to dismantle it. With fans like you, it's no wonder McGinn still has a job.
Several people in this thread have said that the zone blocking scheme made Grant a stud and I have to disagree. I don't claim any special football expertise, but my opinion is that, while Grant and the OL certainly deserve credit for the success they had this season, the fact is this was a smoke and mirrors running game this year. The bulk of the credit for any running success goes to McCarthy and his innovative sets and playcalling. This is to say that his spread offense, use of TE's and the "inverted wisbone" set created running opportunities by using the pass to set up the run. In this regard, note the two points McGinn makes - 1) that the Packers were the worst team in the NFL on 3rd and 4th short yardage situations. Any fan of the team knows this painful fact to be true as we saw many times how they would line up in the empty backfield shotgun on 3rd and 2; and, 2) When it really mattered, facing a strong DL where the Packers couldn't go 5 wide and their entire spread scheme is taken away by the weather conditions and the defensive scheme they faced, the Packers could not run the ball at all even though they had Grant and their best OL completely healthy and well-rested at home.
 
For those pointing out that the Packers exceeded expectations this year and we should all be happy about that and about how spoiled we are to have had Favre the past 16 years, of course you are correct. However, as McGinn makes clear, it is extremely rare to get such a great opportunity to go to a superbowl. After the game, everyone around me at Lambeau was toally devastated. On the drive home, we never discussed the game - it was as if it hadn't happened. It wasn't until I started interacting with other fans that I kept hearing the mantra of "hey, it was a great run this year right?" Of course there's no disagreeing, but I'm disgusted by that talk. Like Mr. Pack, I had not read or watched anything foootball-related until I opened yesterday's paper. I'm an old codger. The Packers won NFL championships the first three years of my life and then didn't return to the superbowl for 30 years. To be a 7 point favorite at Lambeau in the NFC Championship game and squander the chance should be a huge gut-punch to everyone in the organization and to every fan out there in Packerland. I don't necessarily agree with McGinn, but I think its perfectly appropriate to take a hard look at the reasons they lost that game and make whatever changes are necessary depending on that analysis. I expect TT is doing that right now, or at least hope he is.
I don't think any Packer fans are happy that they lost to the Giants as the opportunity to go to the Superbowl comes along only so often. But the Packers weren't expected to even be playing for the opportunity. I'm an old codger myself. It was a long run between the teams of the 60's and the Holmgren years. After the last decade it was beginning to look like it was going to be another 30 years before we had the opportunity again. That's why this year was so totally unexpected. I'm grateful we were even in the position again. Remember, even Holmgren didn't take his teams to the NFC championship game his first playoff experience. Every year they improved and advanced further in the playoffs. This Packer team is probably a few years ahead of where they should be under TT and McCarthy. The future is much brighter than it was under Mike Sherman. I agree that it's perfectly appropriate to take a hard look at why they lost that game or where they need improvement. Any responsible GM, coach, and organization would. What McGinn is suggesting though is that major changes are needed. That is far from the case. There needs to be some tweaking and a few pieces of the puzzle need to be filled in.
 
I wouldn't be the mortgage on this. Yes, Tauscher and Clifton are the old guys, but the guard play was horrendous much of the season. Coston can't stay healthy for all his potential. Spitz is better suited for Center. Colledge just isn't very good. Moll is a tackle and shouldn't play guard. Need I go on?Beyond that, the scheme thing is a tad over blown. The Packers used power schemes and zone schemes this season, which has been documented. If they are going to do that, then you need to find guys who can block the power schemes. The guards certainly didn't appear all that capable. I'll be watching Ted Thompson's O line moves closely. It's the one area that Thompson has struggled to address adequately.
It was horrendus early on in the season. The last 8 games or so...it was not just Grant who was playing well. The line was playing much better also.I agree that I would like to see some more power schemes (and while they used them...it was a majority of zone blocking).You can keep the same guards and still get more hybrid with the scheme. Would take some serious work in the weight room and work with technique for sure.
 
It is pretty bad when people complain about this Packers team that achieved a 14-4 record and losing in the NFC Conference Championship game when all expectations pointed to an 8-8 or even a 9-7 record at best with maybe a first round loss in the playoffs. I would hate to see McGinn writing for the Dolphins or Falcons. McGinn has been a good writer concerning the Packers but come on, this season was great and complaining about it is grasping at straws.
McGinn is losing it. The only thing I agree with is scrapping the ZBS. Our tackles simply aren't cut out for it. Go back to the power run game for goodness sakes and pound away with Grant and Jackson. As for Brett, does he F up from time to time? Sure, show me a QB that doesn't. Brady stunk in the game against SD, but his team was able to bail him out. If the Pats lose that game they're calling for Brady's head just like they're calling for Brett's. This team was projected to go 8-8 at best. We had a helluva season. Could of it been better? Sure, but it's football. Someone's gonna lose each game. Too many things went wrong in that game to pin it all on #4. I'll be very happy if he decides to return for another season.
Zone blocking turned Grant into a stud RB, and now you want to dismantle it. With fans like you, it's no wonder McGinn still has a job.
Several people in this thread have said that the zone blocking scheme made Grant a stud and I have to disagree. I don't claim any special football expertise, but my opinion is that, while Grant and the OL certainly deserve credit for the success they had this season, the fact is this was a smoke and mirrors running game this year. The bulk of the credit for any running success goes to McCarthy and his innovative sets and playcalling. This is to say that his spread offense, use of TE's and the "inverted wisbone" set created running opportunities by using the pass to set up the run. In this regard, note the two points McGinn makes - 1) that the Packers were the worst team in the NFL on 3rd and 4th short yardage situations. Any fan of the team knows this painful fact to be true as we saw many times how they would line up in the empty backfield shotgun on 3rd and 2; and, 2) When it really mattered, facing a strong DL where the Packers couldn't go 5 wide and their entire spread scheme is taken away by the weather conditions and the defensive scheme they faced, the Packers could not run the ball at all even though they had Grant and their best OL completely healthy and well-rested at home.
It certainly was a smoke and mirrors scheme in the first half of the season, but in the second half the Pack were really pounding it, and although Grant may not be particularly talented, like Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson before him, he fitted the scheme well, he's a one cut downhill runner.
 

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