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Paleo / Primal Blueprint type diets (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
Apologies if this 5-year old video has been posted or this guy has been discussed before, but I just came across it. Basically a professor of medicine at Stanford did a pretty huge study on fad diets and did a nice comparison of them all. He discuses paleo briefly at the 50 minute mark, but in the analysis leading up to that, you can definitely see the foundations of paleo seeming to be a better choice, especially for people who are insulin resistant. My favorite part is near the paleo part when he talks about how hard it was for him to see these results since he's been a vegetarian for 25 years and all of his kids were taught to be vegeterian.
The Battle of the Diets: Is Anyone Winning (At Losing?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo
The Battle of the Diets: Is Anyone Winning (At Losing?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Since I saw the thread get bumped I figured I would give an update on my journey with paleo. I was a fatass who sits behind a computer all day and had gotten up to 240. I'm 5'10" so I was a tub of goo. Lots of warning signs around my health - High BP, high cholestoral, Dr. said I had a fatty liver and a couple other things going on. Don't drink a lot and I don't smoke but I was literally eating myself to death. Anyway, I started paleo eating back in spring - for me that meant no grains, no potatoes, no rice, no pasta, no sugar. I would mix in a cheat meal/day depending on what I was doing but it was working - dropped about 15 lbs very quickly.
So that was good but then I started cheating more often and I finally decided I had to stop thinking of this as a diet and realize it needed to be a new way of eating for me permanently. That really helped me from a mental standpoint - I no longer told myself that if I was good for a few days that I could eat whatever I wanted later. It was more about being in control all the time. My wife started doing it with me - that had been one of the hard parts previously - and we are both sold on it more as a lifestyle change and not "dieting". I don't remember the timelines but either way I'm now under 200 - been around 198 for a little while and feeling much better all the time. I think I sleep better. I've had to buy some new clothes as most of my current stuff no longer fits. And I'm constantly getting comments from folks about how I'm doing it. I tell them I'm really just making smarter eating choices and walking - that's it. And that really is all I'm doing. I still am prone to cheating on occassion but I just accept it and move on. I wanted to start ramping up my working out but this time of year - dark early and cold - is just a horrible time IMO to do outdoor stuff so I'm thinking of adding weights in the next few weeks while still walking. Hopefully by spring when it starts warming up I can get down to my next goal which is 180.
Just thought I'd share my story - I'm a believer and plan to keep reading the smart guys around here (MT, scooby and the like) to refine what I'm doing.
So that was good but then I started cheating more often and I finally decided I had to stop thinking of this as a diet and realize it needed to be a new way of eating for me permanently. That really helped me from a mental standpoint - I no longer told myself that if I was good for a few days that I could eat whatever I wanted later. It was more about being in control all the time. My wife started doing it with me - that had been one of the hard parts previously - and we are both sold on it more as a lifestyle change and not "dieting". I don't remember the timelines but either way I'm now under 200 - been around 198 for a little while and feeling much better all the time. I think I sleep better. I've had to buy some new clothes as most of my current stuff no longer fits. And I'm constantly getting comments from folks about how I'm doing it. I tell them I'm really just making smarter eating choices and walking - that's it. And that really is all I'm doing. I still am prone to cheating on occassion but I just accept it and move on. I wanted to start ramping up my working out but this time of year - dark early and cold - is just a horrible time IMO to do outdoor stuff so I'm thinking of adding weights in the next few weeks while still walking. Hopefully by spring when it starts warming up I can get down to my next goal which is 180.
Just thought I'd share my story - I'm a believer and plan to keep reading the smart guys around here (MT, scooby and the like) to refine what I'm doing.
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culdeus
Footballguy
Just an update with my situation as well. I've since further advanced the bar. I've pretty much wiped out all gluten grains and have worked to limit to minimal servings of rice/corn/white starchy tubers. I'm eating much more veg and fruit than in the past and my dairy now is just full fat yogurt, and whey and small amounts of cheese occasionally.
My wife is getting on board too. I'd say she's 75/25 and has never looked better. I think I'm more like 85/15 now and tend towards 90/10 some weeks even.
We've both cut down substantially on booze. Now I'm a glass of wine a night TOPS during the week and maybe on the weekend up that a bit.
I'm down to ~145 from ~160 and went from 19%BF to 11%. Both mine and her workouts have shifted to the beachbody type structure. My lifts are way up and I have definition in most all major muscle groups. I'm setting up a major home gym now to make more progress because I have out lifted my weight set brah!
I'm feeling better than ever, my sex drive is up a ton and my performance that way is improved. I'm also getting tons of people asking what I did differently.
My wife is getting on board too. I'd say she's 75/25 and has never looked better. I think I'm more like 85/15 now and tend towards 90/10 some weeks even.
We've both cut down substantially on booze. Now I'm a glass of wine a night TOPS during the week and maybe on the weekend up that a bit.
I'm down to ~145 from ~160 and went from 19%BF to 11%. Both mine and her workouts have shifted to the beachbody type structure. My lifts are way up and I have definition in most all major muscle groups. I'm setting up a major home gym now to make more progress because I have out lifted my weight set brah!
I'm feeling better than ever, my sex drive is up a ton and my performance that way is improved. I'm also getting tons of people asking what I did differently.
boots11234
Footballguy
Ok paleo nurds if you haven't tried these your missing out: Shirataki noodles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirataki_noodles Not the tofu ones. The normal kinds have zero calories. Plenty of recipes out there. They take on the flavor of whatever you cook with them.
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James Daulton
Footballguy
Sounds like you're doing everything right! The sex drive increase is a great side benefit. Great job and continued success.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
Good update. Congrats and nice work.
I left some stuff off mine:
- Sex drive - yes, definitely up and I can double Woz's 2oz output
- I'm throwing around the old medicine ball like nobody's business. Just about killed my son the other day
- my #### - it's huge - has to be 10"-12" now
- I didn't want to discuss how ripped I am now but I'm like NoExplode come to life.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Yeah, I've totally fallen off the Primal bandwagon (I'm scoobygang, for those that don't know). And predictably, I'm fat again. I know exactly what I have to do, but I can't bring myself to do it. My wife, on the other hand, has maintained her 100 + lb weight loss over 2 years.
boots11234
Footballguy
Dude that is so awesome for your wife. Must be like banging a different woman. Hope you find the willpower to get back on the horse before your wife gets tired of banging your fat ###.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
cosjobs
Footballguy
After nine months of partnering with Paul, we are going a new direction mid January.
We are going a more traditional Paleo-based with much less emphasis on supplements and safe starches. Dairy will also be eliminated during the initial phase, along with alcohol and a few other things for people needing more of an autoimmune protocol
While I am healthier than I have been in decades, my weight is still way to high. And while everyone who comes here loses weight, they pretty much all hit plateaus in their weight loss (toward the end of their stay here or after returning home) and are having an extremely hard time getting through them.
We will also be doing a much more personal approach, rather than having everyone eat the same. We have a very respected Nutritionist/dietitian (also a CHEK and ISSA certified trainer) who will conduct comprehensive intakes and develop individualized nutritional and fitness protocols.
Losing the dairy, booze and starch will be difficult for me, but it is not necessarily required after the initial phase. These things are re-introduced after the first 30 days to more accurately determine tolerance.
For someone within 10 lbs of their ideal weight, I still believe the Perfect Health Diet may be the best solution, but the people we have coming here (and me) are generally quite a bit more broken than that.
Chris Kessler's new book (Personal Paleo Code) is very very close to what we will be implementing. It really does not have much new info, but the way he structures the phased lifestyle implementation is a very promising model.
We are going a more traditional Paleo-based with much less emphasis on supplements and safe starches. Dairy will also be eliminated during the initial phase, along with alcohol and a few other things for people needing more of an autoimmune protocol
While I am healthier than I have been in decades, my weight is still way to high. And while everyone who comes here loses weight, they pretty much all hit plateaus in their weight loss (toward the end of their stay here or after returning home) and are having an extremely hard time getting through them.
We will also be doing a much more personal approach, rather than having everyone eat the same. We have a very respected Nutritionist/dietitian (also a CHEK and ISSA certified trainer) who will conduct comprehensive intakes and develop individualized nutritional and fitness protocols.
Losing the dairy, booze and starch will be difficult for me, but it is not necessarily required after the initial phase. These things are re-introduced after the first 30 days to more accurately determine tolerance.
For someone within 10 lbs of their ideal weight, I still believe the Perfect Health Diet may be the best solution, but the people we have coming here (and me) are generally quite a bit more broken than that.
Chris Kessler's new book (Personal Paleo Code) is very very close to what we will be implementing. It really does not have much new info, but the way he structures the phased lifestyle implementation is a very promising model.
Zow
Footballguy
Need to get back on the wagon now that most of the Christmas sweets have been eaten...
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Is Kesslers new book good? I need some help cutting through all the conflicting opinions.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Funny hyperbole from Guyenet: By 2606, the US Diet will be 100 Percent Sugar
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2012/02/by-2606-us-diet-will-be-100-percent.html
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2012/02/by-2606-us-diet-will-be-100-percent.html
cosjobs
Footballguy
I'd say its very good so far. Really nothing new, but he lays it out in a good way and shows you a formal way to embark, then refine the Paleo diet for maximum benefit.
Like Cordain's last book, there more emphasis on environment and mind, rather than just foods.
I think that may be because the food stuff is fairly well figured out. THe only real controversies seem to be starch and dairy (and possibly nightshades), but other than that, there seems to be a fairly strong consensus.
Zow
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
How many carbs were you eating before? It takes a body a really, really long time to manifest effects of lowering carb consumption. Even going sub 50g it still could be 2 weeks before you really notice anything. Your body if it needs energy will pull it from stored fat and protein you eat. If you were drinking a bunch of soda or something and just quit taking in fluids you might be just reacting to your hydration level.
Phil Elliott
Footballguy
I just started the South Beach diet this week. Down 6 # in 5 days. The first phase lasts about two weeks. I looked at the Paleo diet but it wasn't rated too high in general, not that it was a bad diet, but tended to be harder to adhere to long term. Paleo diet books dominate the local book stores. About 4-5 years ago I lost about 30# on Atkins and this past year gained about 10# back, (with rather bad eating habits). When I was on Atkins, my Dr. suggested South Beach as it was less restrictive. Compared to Atkins, South Beach seems to allow some more "good carbs", if there is such a thing, but tries to limit the fats more. So, far, its been good and I don't have the cravings to snack. I was just getting ready to start a homebrew but no alcohol in phase one and never any beer in any of the phases (I think one glass of red wine is ok in phase 2/3). We'll see how it goes.
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Drifter
Footballguy
This has not been my experience. In 2011 I went to around 100g carbs per day and maintained it religiously for about 9 months before falling off during work busy season, returning to a carb mindful but not restricted diet for another year and then completely falling off the wagon in the last year. I've started again and am experiencing the exact same early results/symptoms as I did the first time - dramatic weight loss in the first week (5-10 lbs) and strong stomach/hunger cravings about 1-2 hours before my usual meal times despite my caloric intake only being around 4-500 calories beneath my basal+activity daily burn.
culdeus
Footballguy
There are many other factors in play. Someone on a hardcore cut is different than someone that wants to equalize calories but change macros. Any major cut you put your body on will have its own dynamics independent of how you try to accomplish it.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Rick James
Footballguy
HERBERT THE HIPPO
REAL Ultimate Power
I lost about 30 lbs. in 7 months on Wheat Belly.
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/12/wheat-belly-quick-dirty-2/
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/12/wheat-belly-quick-dirty-2/
Rick James
Footballguy
It's silly. They knocked the paleo diet partly because it's difficult to follow. How hard is it to cook for yourself? Sure, compared to boiling pasta or grabbing Burger King on the way home Paleo Diet is difficult. Come on.
Chaka
Footballguy
Agreed. Sorry that eating well is a little bit more difficult than stuffing your face with prepackaged frankenfood. Enjoy your diabetes.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Where does V8 juice fall on the healthy food continuum?
I ask because I have a large container of arginine powder which is quite vile when stirred into almost any liquid, with V8 being the one that best thwarts the awful taste. Sodium content aside (920 mg per 12 oz), am I doing myself a favor when I drink one of these? I drank a can this morning along with two boiled eggs and I felt kinda good. Thinking about alternating V8 and oat bran w/butter for breakfast alongside a couple of eggs daily. ... Yeah I know oat bran is unpaleo, but it's a choice I want to make.
I ask because I have a large container of arginine powder which is quite vile when stirred into almost any liquid, with V8 being the one that best thwarts the awful taste. Sodium content aside (920 mg per 12 oz), am I doing myself a favor when I drink one of these? I drank a can this morning along with two boiled eggs and I felt kinda good. Thinking about alternating V8 and oat bran w/butter for breakfast alongside a couple of eggs daily. ... Yeah I know oat bran is unpaleo, but it's a choice I want to make.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
And speaking of sodium, I crave it. If I had to guess, I'm probably somewhere around the 85th percentile when it comes to salt cravings.
Is this just the way I am? Is it indicative of a flawed diet? Should I just suck it up and consume less salt?
Is this just the way I am? Is it indicative of a flawed diet? Should I just suck it up and consume less salt?
Rick James
Footballguy
eh, it's not so bad. Probably not "paleo", and it's about 10-12 grams of sugar, but if you're watching your carbs the rest of the day it's not so bad. Really good source of potassium, too, which can be hard to get when watching carbs.Mister CIA said:
they make a low sodium version, btw.
culdeus
Footballguy
Do you like/eat spicy foods? IMO most people that eat a lot of salt can't take spice. I've tried to cut salt by using things like balsamic vinegar and whole grain mustard for meats and spice for everything else.Mister CIA said:
That being said I'm still dubious that salt is truly a major issue. It may be one of those things that people can't control for in diet experiments.
James Daulton
Footballguy
I recently tried a low carb approach to push off a stubborn 5lbs. I lasted four days as I couldn't take the expected no energy, crappy overall feeling. If I weren't working out strenuously I could probably tough it out, but the combo of low carb and working out just didn't fit for me. I think I'll try again next week but with lower intensity working out.
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Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I think it's almost impossible to consume too much sodium if you're eating mostly fresh foods. If V8 is your only processed food (I also love it, and the low sodium version is vile) I doubt you'd have any problems at all.Mister CIA said:
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Rick James
Footballguy
How many carbs (grams) were you eating per day? Might have been too low. The food pyramid calls for like 400g per day, which IMO is way too much. Most paleo guys (including Mark Sisson) recommend less than 100g to lose weight, and less than 50g to lose weight faster.
The way I'm eating now, I have to really try hard to reach 100g carbs. Most days fall between 40-70.
culdeus
Footballguy
The way I see it
Maintain weight: Carbs (g) < Weight (lbs) + 1(g)/min exercise at 75%MaxHRM
Lose 1# Fat per week Carbs <100g
Lose 2-3# per week Carbs <50g
Expect to go ketogenic staying <50g more than 4 days in a row consecutively. Sooner if eating to a maintenance level.
I shoot for 70g (net) per day trying to taper off with more coming before noon than after.
There is some fight in your body as it changes to going from existing off carbs to existing off fat. Taking supplements like creatine and lots of black coffee can help imo in the early phases. Plus eating 5-6 meals of 300cals+ per day at first.
If your body had no reason to ever enter glucogenesis before (Use protein for carbs) then you can end up with a fairly large response. Again, this assumes someone comes from a near toxic level of carbs previously, which most people using the SAD are.
Maintain weight: Carbs (g) < Weight (lbs) + 1(g)/min exercise at 75%MaxHRM
Lose 1# Fat per week Carbs <100g
Lose 2-3# per week Carbs <50g
Expect to go ketogenic staying <50g more than 4 days in a row consecutively. Sooner if eating to a maintenance level.
I shoot for 70g (net) per day trying to taper off with more coming before noon than after.
There is some fight in your body as it changes to going from existing off carbs to existing off fat. Taking supplements like creatine and lots of black coffee can help imo in the early phases. Plus eating 5-6 meals of 300cals+ per day at first.
If your body had no reason to ever enter glucogenesis before (Use protein for carbs) then you can end up with a fairly large response. Again, this assumes someone comes from a near toxic level of carbs previously, which most people using the SAD are.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Thanks for the breakdown. I was eating roughly 20 grams/day for those four days. Typically I'd burn about 2,900 calories during those days with my TDEE of 2,350 + another 550 through weights/cardo. I tried to stay around 2,000 calories consumed. I know that's a fairly dramatic deficit but my body just doesn't want to give up this last bit. I'm going to try again starting Sunday but I'll try to squeeze the deficit to 500/day or so.
culdeus
Footballguy
If you were high carb and switched to <50g then this is not recommended by anyone. If you do this you need to go out and buy keto strips to pee on to ensure you are not going keto. As long as you aren't going keto you are probably going to feel ok. I don't think it is good to go high carb to keto inside of one month. It is too disruptive to your system and IMO is akin to an eating disorder. This is my general opinion not everyone will feel this way.
I would do this in a taper and if you can handle a LCKD then do so after a LCD of a month or two (preferably 3 imo).
Remember this paleo/primal stuff isn't a crash diet. It is more of a diet to maintain a healthy weight long term. If you want to shed weight quick you have to look at stuff that resembles intermittent fasting/cleanse type stuff. LCKD may not even be enough to get there.
Rick James
Footballguy
any of you guys who are watching calories, do you go to the gym regularly? If so, what's your workout look like if your goal is to lose weight?
I'm doing the Rippletoe "Starting Strength" program, and I like it, but I feel like that's more of a bulking program. Maybe something more aerobic is in order, while still using weights.
any suggestions?
I'm doing the Rippletoe "Starting Strength" program, and I like it, but I feel like that's more of a bulking program. Maybe something more aerobic is in order, while still using weights.
any suggestions?
James Daulton
Footballguy
I wouldn't say I was high carb since I'm always watching calories. I didn't count but with a diet of chicken, veggies, etc, with some reasonable amount of salty snacks, I'd say I was less than 200g/day.
You seem real knowledgeable Culdeus, is this a hobby or occupation?
James Daulton
Footballguy
I've turned into a real lifting enthusiast. You're correct that starting strength is a bulking program as the goal is to gain strength and to do that you need a calorie excess (unless you're totally new to lifting). It's going to be very difficult/impossible to both build muscle and lose fat. So firstly decide which is more important. If losing weight is, you should still lift as you want to retain as much muscle as possible. My current split is a push-pull 4x/week that consists largely of compound lifts (bench, squat, deadlift, etc) with a couple of ancillary movements included. I do around 20 sets/workout and each workout is roughly 50 minutes. My calorie burn during this workout is roughly 250. Usually 4x/week I'll do cardio (typically elliptical) for about 30 minutes which burns another 350 calories or so.
You should pick a routine that you like and that you'll stick to. All that said, the greatest routine in the world won't offset a poor diet. Get that in check, mix in some lifting, and you'll be a new man in no time.
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culdeus
Footballguy
This diet marries perfectly with 5x5 stronglifts. If I could ever get my rotator cuff injury to fully heal I'm going to do it.
Nothing is a bulking program unless you are way over maintenance on calories and lifting super heavy.
If you don't just want to lift weights on a circuit then any of the beachbody stuff is great on this diet too. P90x/BodyBeast/etc.
Otis
Footballguy
Update? Are you still on this, and is it still working? Curious to hear more success stories from folks on paleo/primal.
Also, is there value in a modified paleo/primal that is more regular-life friendly? I don't really care about the gluten stuff, and I don't want to have to be perusing gluten-free food aisles or avoiding regular beers, etc. I'm fine with cutting out most or all dairy -- the only dairy I have anyone is a tiny bit of milk in my coffee in the morning. And going low carb makes a whole lot of sense to me. I suppose maybe what I'm looking at is a paleo-atkins hybrid, with lots of meat and vegetables, and good carbs instead of no carbs (i.e., a dish with sweet potato and turkey is fine; not a bag of cookies).
Thoughts from the gurus in here? TIA
Sabertooth
Footballguy
why do you say it married perfectly with strong lifts? Just the protein intake?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I think you are on the right track. Sweet potatoes are pretty good source or carbs. The problem with Atkins is the stuff like hot dogs and processed crap like the shakes. The Paleo is more work to be sure but you know what is healthy and which isn't right? I mean you know what's better between a hot dog and a ribeye right? French fries and broccoli? Shamrock shake and all fruit smoothly? .
Otis
Footballguy
This makes sense to me. For instance, my wife started whipping up these delicious breakfast shakes for me a couple of weeks ago that I had to stop to try out atkins -- almond milk, a tiny bit of almond butter, a banana, flax seeds, and ice, all blended. They taste fantastic, and the ingredients seem like pretty healthy, balanced and reasonable ones to me.
But atkins won't allow for it.Similar threads
