Patriots stealing signals? (1 Viewer)

[GregR_2]

Is this illegal? Why? I think it should be acceptable. If your signals get stolen, then make up a better signalling process. Can someone explain to me why this is so bad?

Because fans want to see a game played on the field, and not dependent on who has the best zooming video camera, parabolic mikes or other listening devices, or any other piece of electronics that is more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team.I've got no problem if a coach watches the other team signaling in plays and tries to deduce what their signs are. When teams start hiring lip readers (as has been done in the past), or bringing electronics into it to spy on other teams, what in the hell does that have to do with football? At some point the league has to say enough is enough, and I think they picked a pretty obvious place to put the line. Don't you?

No. If they both have access to the technology, it should even out. Shouldn't it? I'm sure I'm just being obtuse here, but it's not intentional.

Yes, you're correct, you're being very obtuse. The point of my post was that part about "more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team" and not the part about who has the best.Football is not a game of electronic spyware countermeasures. It's an athletic sport. You know, athletics? A competition of physical skill and ability? Not a competition of videographers, code breakers, and lip readers?

 

[bostonfred]

Roger Goodell has shown that he cares very little about precedent and fairness. I wouldn't be surprised by any penalty he imposes.

He needs to send a very very very strong message. Patriots banned from the playoffs this year. Thats the only way to send a message to BB and I believe its very fair.Another option would be to open all Patriot practices and team meetings to reporters throughout the playoffs.

That's not nearly strong enough. The Jets should be crowned champions now, and so should the Colts and Chargers and everyone but the Patriots, who should be declared the #32 team in the NFL forever and shamed, yes, shamed. And the Patriot cheerleaders should all have to be naked. And Goodell will do it, because he's that tough.

 

[1huskerfan]

Roger Goodell has shown that he cares very little about precedent and fairness. I wouldn't be surprised by any penalty he imposes.

He needs to send a very very very strong message. Patriots banned from the playoffs this year. Thats the only way to send a message to BB and I believe its very fair.Another option would be to open all Patriot practices and team meetings to reporters throughout the playoffs.

That's not nearly strong enough. The Jets should be crowned champions now, and so should the Colts and Chargers and everyone but the Patriots, who should be declared the #32 team in the NFL forever and shamed, yes, shamed. And the Patriot cheerleaders should all have to be naked. And Goodell will do it, because he's that tough.

 

[Knight who says Ni]

I heard on Mike and Mike this morning (from I think Mortenson) that as punishment, Goodell was talking about stripping the Patriots of a few draft picks, including a first day draft pick. Ouch

Ni

 

[Gatorman]

The easiest way to solve this is to give one defensive player a speaker helmet as well.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

First of all, I have seen nothing credible to say this is true. Who is this mystery cameraman? A Pats official? Says who.Its a 2nd offense because some yahoo in GB says it is? I'll wait to see the report from the NFL security department.I agree that the main use would be for a later game. They play the Jets twice but what would be their motivation to tape the GB signals? They think they were going to meet GB in the Super Bowl.Right now, this is just an accusation/rumor. If proven true it is a cheap move and the Pats will take their punishment and give up the 5th round pick. :( at those saying the Pats should get fined a 1st round pick.

Patriots are frauds. Always have been, always will be. (Patriot fans, don't get up in arms, this is just someone getting a taste of his own medicine.)

 

[radiohead417]

Funny to see the Pats fans somehow defending this stuff.

"Jeez, these teams should guard their signals better."

"Baseball teams do it all the time." (FYI - there's a rule in baseball that you can't do this with mechanical devices)

"What's the big deal?"

"It goes on all the time."

There's a huge difference between picking up on a tendency and using technology to steal signals. It's one thing if they notice that a WR sprints out of the huddle when a play is called for him, it's another if they zoom in on the QB's mouth and hire a lip reader to figure out the plays. I even think it's wrong when teams sign guys that were cut from other teams just to pick their brain about playbooks and gameplans.

This is cheating. I hope there's a full investigation of exactly how long this has been going on. I'm not talking about forfeiting games and/or championships if stuff is proven, but there needs to be a specific rule on the books with a specific penalty if there isn't already. I agree that the Patriots should have to forfeit several draft picks if this is true.

 

[Reaper]

Roger Goodell has shown that he cares very little about precedent and fairness. I wouldn't be surprised by any penalty he imposes.

He needs to send a very very very strong message. Patriots banned from the playoffs this year. Thats the only way to send a message to BB and I believe its very fair.Another option would be to open all Patriot practices and team meetings to reporters throughout the playoffs.

That's not nearly strong enough. The Jets should be crowned champions now, and so should the Colts and Chargers and everyone but the Patriots, who should be declared the #32 team in the NFL forever and shamed, yes, shamed. And the Patriot cheerleaders should all have to be naked. And Goodell will do it, because he's that tough.

And what about the Packers?

To me this is a non-issue as a Jets fan....

It's between NFL Security who took the tape and the Pats.......

 

[Shrek]

Love the damage control/excuses by Pat fans in this thread. Seriously, they probably would have won anyway. But are some of you really such blind homers that you can't acknowledge that:

A) They may have gained an unfair advantage by doing something that the NFL has previously warned teams NOT to do, as it is cheating in their eyes, and

B) Your beloved organization isn't the bunch of choirboys they make themselves out to be?

There has been a lot of evidence that this may be true, including previous incidents. If I was a Pats fan, I would be disappointed in my team if they felt that they had to do this to win. No matter how people try to defend this behavior, it boils down to this. Any team that would do this is obviously uncomfortable with their chances of winning using strictly conventional methods.

 

[Banger]

No matter how people try to defend this behavior, it boils down to this. Any team that would do this is obviously uncomfortable with their chances of winning using strictly conventional methods.

I think they are clearly good enough to win without these tactics but BB will look for any edge possible to try to win, especially against the Jets.

 

[switz]

The green dot on Qb's helmets means it has Wi-Fi capability..a kid in the stands can hear them with the proper gear!

Not a chance. He'd need to have a WiFi capable device, something to fake his MAC address, know what MAC address is on the allowed list. And a heck of a lot more.WiFi is not like an FM frequency.

 

[Stillers Jr.]

What you all are failing to realize is it's part of their culture...they can't be blamed for it.

 

[Phlash]

I'm going to take the Ellis Hobbs route and say that I don't want to imagine that my team has cheaters on it because its known how much time they spend practicing and preparing, but if they are then shame on them.

BB could've *easily* won that game without the videocamera. It likely would not have made much of a difference anyways. I love how BB is always trying to get an edge, but this is definitely pushing it to the limit.

 

[switz]

Roger Goodell has shown that he cares very little about precedent and fairness. I wouldn't be surprised by any penalty he imposes.

He needs to send a very very very strong message. Patriots banned from the playoffs this year. Thats the only way to send a message to BB and I believe its very fair.Another option would be to open all Patriot practices and team meetings to reporters throughout the playoffs.

That's not nearly strong enough. The Jets should be crowned champions now, and so should the Colts and Chargers and everyone but the Patriots, who should be declared the #32 team in the NFL forever and shamed, yes, shamed. And the Patriot cheerleaders should all have to be naked. And Goodell will do it, because he's that tough.

And what about the Packers?

To me this is a non-issue as a Jets fan....

It's between NFL Security who took the tape and the Pats.......

The cheerleaders didn't do anything wrong... and isn't that rewarding the team?

 

[mo542]

Chad Johnson doesn’t agree with the penalties for touchdown celebrations, but that doesn’t give him a free ticket to break the rules. He bends the rules, but he doesn’t break them and there is a line there.

All teams were notified that having camera on the sidelines is against the rules. If the Pats did in fact have a camera on the sidelines, they should be punished accordingly; case closed. If they don’t like the rule, then they should have found a creative way to bend the rule. However, when/if they put a camera on the sideline they broke the rule. This really isn’t that hard.

 

[Workhorse]

I'm a Pats fan - If the Patriots did this and broke the rule, they deserve whatever punishment the league hands down. PERIOD.

Unjustfiable. Cheating is cheating.

However, I'm going to wait and see what the league says about the incident before jumping to any conclusions.

 

[Shrek]

No matter how people try to defend this behavior, it boils down to this. Any team that would do this is obviously uncomfortable with their chances of winning using strictly conventional methods.

I think they are clearly good enough to win without these tactics but BB will look for any edge possible to try to win, especially against the Jets.

Clearly? I think that's a bit unfair to say in light of what's on the table.I think that we will see just how good they really are next week, when the team they are playing is argulably much better than the Jets and they will be forewarned about the (alleged) cheating.

 

[reg]

So basically, everyone on this thread has already decided that the Pats are guilty without seeing a single shred of evidence? Nice.

welcome to FBG !!!!

 

[LGOA]

I liken this to, when in 5th grade or so, you have the chance to break into the teacher's desk and steal the test the night before, i.e you know what the questions are going to be.

It's wrong, illegal, and cheating.

Some kids do it and need to do it to get a good grade, while some kids would refuse to do it, can study on their own and do well (or amazingly...better!).

 

[TD Ryan]

I haven't read this whole thread. I started to but there was just too much absurdity to wade through.

Here's an article from a reputable Boston Sports Writer. It really is worth a read.

I really hope this isn't true about the Pats, but I fear that Bellichick is drunk with power and ambition.

I'll post more comments/thoughts after the article:

BostonHerald article

Pats accused of spying

Team could lose pick as league investigates

John Tomase By John Tomase

Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - Updated 2h ago

+ Recent Articles + Recent Blog Entries + Email + Bio

Boston Herald Sports Writer

Patriots beat writer John Tomase joined the Herald in 2005 after six years covering the Red Sox.

EmailE-mail PrintablePrintable Comments(3) Comments LargerSmallerText size ShareShare Rate(2) Rate

FOXBORO - The Patriots [team stats] were caught illegally filming the Jets’ defensive signals Sunday - for at least the fourth time in the past year - and could lose a draft pick as a result, a league source said yesterday.

The Pats have a reputation throughout the league for such chicanery, noted former competition committee member Charley Casserly, who first broke the story of the Pats stealing signs last year for CBS. But not until the Jets confiscated a camera and sent it to the league offices following Sunday’s game -which Belichick admitted being aware of during his weekly visit to WEEI - did rival clubs break their silence.

According to league sources, the Packers and Lions also nabbed the Patriots filming their defensive signals, while the Bills suspected it and now are reviewing last year’s game tapes. Casserly’s report dealt with either the Jets, Bills, Broncos or Bengals.

“There’s a league-wide perception that this is something they do,” one rival executive noted.

In each instance, the pattern appears to be the same. A Patriots employee with a team-issued credential records opposing coaches signaling the defensive plays. It’s unclear what the Pats do with the information, though sources in Green Bay believed the cameraman was relaying information to the Patriots bench via hand signals.

Earlier this summer, a league spokesman said all 32 teams received a reminder that it is illegal to videotape opposing signals, adding that cameras can’t be used on the sidelines, in the booth, or in the locker room during a game.

According to an ESPN report, the eight-man competition committee could investigate. Among its members are Titans coach Jeff Fisher and Colts president Bill Polian, who have clashed with the Pats in the past, as well as Lions general manager Matt Millen, whose team believes it caught the Pats doing the same thing last December.

Among the possible punishments would be for the Pats to lose a draft pick.

For a window into the Patriots’ tactics, multiple Packers sources provided a fascinating account of what happened in the 35-0 victory last Nov. 19.

A man identifying himself as a Patriots employee asked a security guard if he could shoot footage of Lambeau Field before the game, and permission was granted.

Just before the game, he requested to stay on the sidelines to record quarterback Tom Brady [stats] for the coaching staff. However, he was soon spotted filming the Packers defense and signaling Patriots coaches.

A member of the Packers security staff witnessed the exchange and asked him to leave. He retreated to the tunnel, continued filming, and appeared to be communicating with the coaches via hand signals before being escorted off the field.

Asked why the Patriots weren’t reported, a Packers executive suggested there was a code of silence regarding such matters, particularly after a blowout.

“It bothers you that it’s cheating,” he said, “but it’s not the reason they kicked our (butt).”

It’s interesting to note a pair of comments after that game. The first came from Packers corner Al Harris, who praised the Patriots coaching staff.

“It’s almost like they knew what we were doing, you know?” he said. “You have to tip your hat to them. They ran plays designed for us. They ran plays that made us check out of some things. I don’t know who calls their plays, but Belichick is pretty good. Honestly, he’s pretty good.”

Following the season, Belichick conducted an interview with the Globe and singled out the Packers game as a turning point, coming on the heels of consecutive losses to the Jets and Colts.

“I think things could have unraveled a little bit,” he said. “It’s a point around midseason and that was a big game to rein things back in. I think it showed the team what we could do.”

 

[Folded Undercard]

Love the damage control/excuses by Pat fans in this thread. Seriously, they probably would have won anyway. But are some of you really such blind homers that you can't acknowledge that:A) They may have gained an unfair advantage by doing something that the NFL has previously warned teams NOT to do, as it is cheating in their eyes, and B) Your beloved organization isn't the bunch of choirboys they make themselves out to be?There has been a lot of evidence that this may be true, including previous incidents. If I was a Pats fan, I would be disappointed in my team if they felt that they had to do this to win. No matter how people try to defend this behavior, it boils down to this. Any team that would do this is obviously uncomfortable with their chances of winning using strictly conventional methods.

I love these kind of posts. Why shouldn't someone defend their team? That's why they are called fans. I suppose you are totally unbiased with regard to your team. Blind homerism is better than blind hate. So get off your pedastal, and get real. Every NFL team tries to get EVERY advantage they can.I recall more than a few instances where these type of things have happened before with other teams (including the Jets). How about speculation before the game that the Jets brought Caldwell or some other NE players in, so they could learn the Defensive plays of the Pats? Guys who are making this out to be some kind of major crime are the one who need to take the glasses off. The media is guilty of making the Pats out to be choir boys, not NE fans or players. Real NE fans know that BB and the organization are warriors and not choir boys. Its a violent sport with ALOT at stake....NE fans and players realize that. Give NE a slap on the wrist and move on....

 

[Pittsburgh United]

Of these "jewels", I think my favorite is a Steelers fan passing judgement on the presence or absence of attributes like class and honor as ascribed to a professional football team. Priceless.

Don't take it from us then.

“They showed no class at all . . . and maybe it comes from the head coach,” Tomlinson said after the game.

 

[Boston]

Typical thread about the Patriots involving bashers of everything Patriot and defenders of everything Patriot. The minute this story broke you knew exactly how these posts would roll.

The bottomline is after this investigation if it is proven that the Pats did infact break rules that were well documented they deserve whatever penalty the league feels meets the crime. It's one thing trying to get a competitive advantage but if they continued this nonsense after being warned there should be zero excuses as they have no one to blame but themselves. No pleading ignorance or everyone else does it BS...accept the punishment and move on. Hopefully that's not the case (and if not the organization deserves an apology for the PR damage) but if it is they don't deserve to be defended for these actions.

 

[Workhorse]

Parcells was on ESPN saying that this kind of thing happens all the time, all around the NFL.

Not that it excuses anything, just bears noting.

 

[Smizzy]

Not a surprise at all. I think BB pushes the envelope as far as possible.

I agree...that is why it makes you scratch your head when you see a player Like Harrison taking HGH and wonder if the FO had any knowledge of these types of activities and just didn't care.

 

[Workhorse]

This is particularly interesting:

Asked why the Patriots weren’t reported, a Packers executive suggested there was a code of silence regarding such matters, particularly after a blowout.

If only the Pats were doing this type of thing, why would there be a "code of silence" about it?

 

[Folded Undercard]

Typical thread about the Patriots involving bashers of everything Patriot and defenders of everything Patriot. The minute this story broke you knew exactly how these posts would roll.The bottomline is after this investigation if it is proven that the Pats did infact break rules that were well documented they deserve whatever penalty the league feels meets the crime. It's one thing trying to get a competitive advantage but if they continued this nonsense after being warned there should be zero excuses as they have no one to blame but themselves. No pleading ignorance or everyone else does it BS...accept the punishment and move on. Hopefully that's not the case (and if not the organization deserves an apology for the PR damage) but if it is they don't deserve to be defended for these actions.

That's my point exactly. Most guys on this board like to paint a broad brush on NE fans, who I consider no better or no worse than any other fan. Perhaps a bit more vocal than some fans, but not any more blind or dumber. I've said it before with regard to other teams and I'll say it again when it happens to my team....Its a VERY competitive game with a lot at stake, many teams have been accused of doing these type of things and it happens all the time...the only thing that makes this instance any different is that its the Pats. Does it make it right? No, but to claim your team or my team doesn't try to gain an edge, without sometimes crossing the line.....now that's homerism.

 

[TD Ryan]

I don't doubt that this type of stuff goes on all the time. I just think that maybe Belichick/NE has taken it to another level which, for good or bad, they do with everything. They do and think of stuff (both on and off the field) that nobody would ever believe.

So now they have implemented and perfected an on-field signal stealing system? It's not some half azzed effort to make a Zapruder film of Mangini, it's a CIA level operation that yields instant, on-field results? wow. terrible and admirable all in the same.

In the Herald article that I posted above, even the Packers GM referred to a "code of silence" about these things. Really, it's an impossible situation for a losing team to be in... get your ### kicked, shutout even, and then complain that they were stealing you plays/signals? But the concept of a "code of silence" certainly suggests that it goes on frequently.

As a Pats fan, I know it's wrong; it's Belichick going over the line. HE/they should be punished accordingly.

But I also know that it's his complete understanding/dominance of every little detail that lead him here.

and as always, it comes down to laundry.

If your team does it, it's no big deal.

If the other team does it, it's a mortal sin.

I love my Pats. The only way I couldn't support them is if they were incompetent buffoons (see. Boston Bruins).

This is a case of them doing too much and crossing the line with their preparation and ingenuity.

 

[sheerterror]

Is this illegal? Why? I think it should be acceptable. If your signals get stolen, then make up a better signalling process. Can someone explain to me why this is so bad?

Because fans want to see a game played on the field, and not dependent on who has the best zooming video camera, parabolic mikes or other listening devices, or any other piece of electronics that is more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team.I've got no problem if a coach watches the other team signaling in plays and tries to deduce what their signs are. When teams start hiring lip readers (as has been done in the past), or bringing electronics into it to spy on other teams, what in the hell does that have to do with football? At some point the league has to say enough is enough, and I think they picked a pretty obvious place to put the line. Don't you?

No. If they both have access to the technology, it should even out. Shouldn't it? I'm sure I'm just being obtuse here, but it's not intentional.

Why was it illegal for Rodney Harrison to take HGH if everybody else had the same access to it? Why? Because IT'S AGAINST THE DAMN RULES. This logic makes zero sense.

 

[Diabolic]

and as always, it comes down to laundry.If your team does it, it's no big deal.If the other team does it, it's a mortal sin.I love my Pats. The only way I couldn't support them is if they were incompetent buffoons (see. Boston Bruins).This is a case of them doing too much and crossing the line with their preparation and ingenuity.

No, if my team did this, I would feel ashamed and angry towards them. I think it's disgraceful behavior, whether one team does it or thirty.

 

[Gravity]

Pats accused of spyingTeam could lose pick as league investigatesJohn Tomase By John TomaseTuesday, September 11, 2007 - Updated 2h ago+ Recent Articles + Recent Blog Entries + Email + BioBoston Herald Sports WriterPatriots beat writer John Tomase joined the Herald in 2005 after six years covering the Red Sox.EmailE-mail PrintablePrintable Comments(3) Comments LargerSmallerText size ShareShare Rate(2) RateIt’s interesting to note a pair of comments after that game. The first came from Packers corner Al Harris, who praised the Patriots coaching staff.“It’s almost like they knew what we were doing, you know?” he said. “You have to tip your hat to them. They ran plays designed for us. They ran plays that made us check out of some things. I don’t know who calls their plays, but Belichick is pretty good. Honestly, he’s pretty good.”

This is what really bothers me. This quote is almost identical to what the JETS DB said after the JETS/PAST game.Almost identical.

 

[sheerterror]

Love the damage control/excuses by Pat fans in this thread. Seriously, they probably would have won anyway. But are some of you really such blind homers that you can't acknowledge that:

A) They may have gained an unfair advantage by doing something that the NFL has previously warned teams NOT to do, as it is cheating in their eyes, and

B) Your beloved organization isn't the bunch of choirboys they make themselves out to be?

There has been a lot of evidence that this may be true, including previous incidents. If I was a Pats fan, I would be disappointed in my team if they felt that they had to do this to win. No matter how people try to defend this behavior, it boils down to this. Any team that would do this is obviously uncomfortable with their chances of winning using strictly conventional methods.

I love these kind of posts. Why shouldn't someone defend their team? That's why they are called fans. I suppose you are totally unbiased with regard to your team. Blind homerism is better than blind hate. So get off your pedastal, and get real. Every NFL team tries to get EVERY advantage they can.I recall more than a few instances where these type of things have happened before with other teams (including the Jets). How about speculation before the game that the Jets brought Caldwell or some other NE players in, so they could learn the Defensive plays of the Pats?

Guys who are making this out to be some kind of major crime are the one who need to take the glasses off. The media is guilty of making the Pats out to be choir boys, not NE fans or players. Real NE fans know that BB and the organization are warriors and not choir boys. Its a violent sport with ALOT at stake....NE fans and players realize that. Give NE a slap on the wrist and move on....

That article was by a Jets beat writer that was doing nothing more than stirring the pot and trying to create additional pregame hype.September 4, 2007

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/

Yet Another Spy Comes to Town

Yesterday, the Patriots released WR Reche Caldwell, their leading pass

catcher last season -- a surprising move.

Today, guess where he turned up for a free-agent visit?

Yep, Weeb Ewbank Hall.

Even though they have six wide receivers on the roster, the Jets brought in

Caldwell for a chat -- a move that reeks of gamesmanship. It was first

reported on the Boston Globe Web site.

The Jets play the Patriots Sunday in the season opener, and there's probably

a good chance they tried to pick Caldwell's brain on the upcoming game,

hoping he'd spill a nugget or two from the Patriots' playbook.

This is not an unusual tactic for the Jets. A week ago, they brought in S

Artrell Hawkins, who had been released recently by the Patriots.

Posted by Rich Cimini at 7:28 PM

Please tell me where there is any shred of proof in this article that this is nothing more than blind speculation by a writer digging for controversy?

 

[Mr. Chumley]

I think you guys are all missing the point here. The real question is how will this affect our fantasy teams.

 

[dlos]

I think you guys are all missing the point here. The real question is how will this affect our fantasy teams.

As a Brady owner, I'm OK with it.

 

[1huskerfan]

Funny to see the Pats fans somehow defending this stuff. "Jeez, these teams should guard their signals better.""Baseball teams do it all the time." (FYI - there's a rule in baseball that you can't do this with mechanical devices)"What's the big deal?""It goes on all the time."There's a huge difference between picking up on a tendency and using technology to steal signals. It's one thing if they notice that a WR sprints out of the huddle when a play is called for him, it's another if they zoom in on the QB's mouth and hire a lip reader to figure out the plays. I even think it's wrong when teams sign guys that were cut from other teams just to pick their brain about playbooks and gameplans.This is cheating. I hope there's a full investigation of exactly how long this has been going on. I'm not talking about forfeiting games and/or championships if stuff is proven, but there needs to be a specific rule on the books with a specific penalty if there isn't already. I agree that the Patriots should have to forfeit several draft picks if this is true.

Whatever you do, don't classify me as a Pats fan.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Roger Goodell has shown that he cares very little about precedent and fairness. I wouldn't be surprised by any penalty he imposes.

He needs to send a very very very strong message. Patriots banned from the playoffs this year. Thats the only way to send a message to BB and I believe its very fair.Another option would be to open all Patriot practices and team meetings to reporters throughout the playoffs.

That's not nearly strong enough. The Jets should be crowned champions now, and so should the Colts and Chargers and everyone but the Patriots, who should be declared the #32 team in the NFL forever and shamed, yes, shamed. And the Patriot cheerleaders should all have to be naked. And Goodell will do it, because he's that tough.

:( Honestly, they should probably just disban the team and bar BB from the NFL for life. I know that there's a lot of irrational reactions from both sides and perhaps my suggestion to forfeit the game was a little harsh (although I still think that most teams would sacrifice a 3rd or 4th round pick every single year for an extra win). But if this were the Colts getting busted for at least the 4th time in the past year, I'm pretty sure that the same Patriot fans ardently defending the Pats would be screaming for a hanging.

Trust me, I have a lot of respect for what the Pats have been able to accomplish, but I do think that they cross the line at times. Just for instance, Pats fans are pointing to the Jets bringing in Caldwell before the first game as some sort of justification. And maybe they're right in that teams shouldn't be doing this. But I seem to recall the Patriots actually making this a pretty regular practice. Where do you think Mangini picked it up from? The Patriots also walk a very thin line in regards to the injury report. Everyone in the league knows that the Patriots do whatever they can to screw with the injury report.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Jeff Fisher was asked a week or so ago about the green stickers on the QB helmets on his radio show. He explained that it was to identify the helmets with radios in them so that a team couldn't have more than one of the field at one time. I'm paraphrasing here, but he basically said "That happened with a team we played last year. I don't think I have to tell you who it was."

Yes, the Titans played NE in the last game last year.

i can't remember who it was that had two radio helmets on the field at the same time last year BUT it wasn't the pats. it was a team that occasionally used their backup QB as a WR. and an official noticed that when they were both on the field at the same time they both obviously had a radio helmet.

No, no, no. You misunderstand me. I think you are referring to ATL with Vick/Schaub.What Fisher is referring to was an intentional, skirt the rules situation that was clearly a violation of the rule and that a non-QB was given a helmet with a radio. This obviously was not caught at the time but somehow became known later.

Without saying as much, he clearly was intimating that it was either the Colts or the Pats. I just don't see Dungy doing it, so that leaves the Pats.

 

[JMJ]

Al Harris after the Patriots-Packers game last season that is in question:

“It’s almost like they knew what we were doing, you know?” he said. “You have to tip your hat to them. They ran plays designed for us. They ran plays that made us check out of some things. I don’t know who calls their plays, but Belichick is pretty good. Honestly, he’s pretty good.”

Kerry Rhodes after Sunday's game with the Pats in question:

The Jets mixed blitzes and coverage, but it was no use. Brady got a lot of use out of his new toy, Moss, who scorched the secondary (mostly David Barrett) for nine catches and 183 yards, including a 51-yard TD. Five different Patriots scored touchdowns. "(Brady) seemed like he knew what we were doing," safety Kerry Rhodes said. "Whether it was a blitz or coverage, he made all the right checks. I guess we have to do a better job of disguising our looks."

This is bullsh*t!!!!!

 

[phthalatemagic]

Is this illegal? Why? I think it should be acceptable. If your signals get stolen, then make up a better signalling process. Can someone explain to me why this is so bad?

Because fans want to see a game played on the field, and not dependent on who has the best zooming video camera, parabolic mikes or other listening devices, or any other piece of electronics that is more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team.I've got no problem if a coach watches the other team signaling in plays and tries to deduce what their signs are. When teams start hiring lip readers (as has been done in the past), or bringing electronics into it to spy on other teams, what in the hell does that have to do with football? At some point the league has to say enough is enough, and I think they picked a pretty obvious place to put the line. Don't you?

No. If they both have access to the technology, it should even out. Shouldn't it? I'm sure I'm just being obtuse here, but it's not intentional.

Yes, you're correct, you're being very obtuse. The point of my post was that part about "more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team" and not the part about who has the best.Football is not a game of electronic spyware countermeasures. It's an athletic sport. You know, athletics? A competition of physical skill and ability? Not a competition of videographers, code breakers, and lip readers?

OK, so where is the athletics in studying game footage? Football players do that.Can you explain to me the difference between using technology (cameras, various AV equipment) to study game footage in a historical context before the game to predict your opponent's tendencies and likely play calling over using technology (cameras various AV equipment) to study game footage in a real time context as the game happens to predict your opponent's tendencies and likely play calling?

 

[TD Ryan]

Al Harris after the Patriots-Packers game last season that is in question:

“It’s almost like they knew what we were doing, you know?” he said. “You have to tip your hat to them. They ran plays designed for us. They ran plays that made us check out of some things. I don’t know who calls their plays, but Belichick is pretty good. Honestly, he’s pretty good.”

Kerry Rhodes after Sunday's game with the Pats in question:

The Jets mixed blitzes and coverage, but it was no use. Brady got a lot of use out of his new toy, Moss, who scorched the secondary (mostly David Barrett) for nine catches and 183 yards, including a 51-yard TD. Five different Patriots scored touchdowns. "(Brady) seemed like he knew what we were doing," safety Kerry Rhodes said. "Whether it was a blitz or coverage, he made all the right checks. I guess we have to do a better job of disguising our looks."

This is bullsh*t!!!!!

first, it's no excuse for NE.they're wrong, the should pay the price.

BUT

you do understand how the "code of silence" works, right? Everybody knows what's going on, but it isn't openly talked about.

Rhodes and Harris didn't make these statements innocently, they knew exactly what they were alluding to with the comments.

It's a passive aggressive way of addressing the issue.

Again, it doesn't exonerate NE.

but pretending that this type of stuff isn't known about in the NFL isn't helping the issue.

 

[Max Power]

wow..losing a draft pick for cheating (as so far reported)

The Pats are awsome...always ahead of the NFL curve.

I bet alot of teams would easily trade a draft pick for a win over thier toughest Divisional opponent.

 

[GregR_2]

Is this illegal? Why? I think it should be acceptable. If your signals get stolen, then make up a better signalling process. Can someone explain to me why this is so bad?

Because fans want to see a game played on the field, and not dependent on who has the best zooming video camera, parabolic mikes or other listening devices, or any other piece of electronics that is more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team.I've got no problem if a coach watches the other team signaling in plays and tries to deduce what their signs are. When teams start hiring lip readers (as has been done in the past), or bringing electronics into it to spy on other teams, what in the hell does that have to do with football? At some point the league has to say enough is enough, and I think they picked a pretty obvious place to put the line. Don't you?

No. If they both have access to the technology, it should even out. Shouldn't it? I'm sure I'm just being obtuse here, but it's not intentional.

Yes, you're correct, you're being very obtuse. The point of my post was that part about "more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team" and not the part about who has the best.Football is not a game of electronic spyware countermeasures. It's an athletic sport. You know, athletics? A competition of physical skill and ability? Not a competition of videographers, code breakers, and lip readers?

OK, so where is the athletics in studying game footage? Football players do that.Can you explain to me the difference between using technology (cameras, various AV equipment) to study game footage in a historical context before the game to predict your opponent's tendencies and likely play calling over using technology (cameras various AV equipment) to study game footage in a real time context as the game happens to predict your opponent's tendencies and likely play calling?

Isn't it obvious that using electronics to spy on the actual calls when they are being made is different than using electronics to study your opponent and then having to use your own eyes and mind when on the field?If what I'm saying isn't common sense, then you tell me where the line should be drawn. You're saying it's ok to use zoom lenses to zoom in on the play callers to learn the calls and flash them to your own team. Is it ok to hire lipreaders to help out? Is it ok to have parabolic mikes and laser mikes? Is it ok to hire some kid from MIT to come hack the other team's headset frequency so you can hear the play call? Is it ok to install radios into all of your player's helmets? Is it ok to put a camera and recording devices in the locker rooms so you can hear what their half-time adjustments are? Is it ok to have someone hide in their locker room rather than using electronics? Is it ok to dress someone up in the opposing staff's attire and send them over to stand on their sideline and signal back what they find out?Where in that list do you propose the line be drawn, and on what basis did you decide to draw it where you did?

 

[428143]

Like the NFL is going to blow this up, the fall-out would be crazy. Stay classy NE...

 

[reg]

so it would have been legal for the guy to sit in the front row, videotape, and pass signals to someone else who is on the sidelines?

 

[GregR_2]

so it would have been legal for the guy to sit in the front row, videotape, and pass signals to someone else who is on the sidelines?

No. Why would you think it would be? Doing so would add violating the stadiums ban on people recording the games to violating the NFL rule against teams recording the play callers.

 

[phthalatemagic]

Is this illegal? Why? I think it should be acceptable. If your signals get stolen, then make up a better signalling process. Can someone explain to me why this is so bad?

Because fans want to see a game played on the field, and not dependent on who has the best zooming video camera, parabolic mikes or other listening devices, or any other piece of electronics that is more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team.I've got no problem if a coach watches the other team signaling in plays and tries to deduce what their signs are. When teams start hiring lip readers (as has been done in the past), or bringing electronics into it to spy on other teams, what in the hell does that have to do with football? At some point the league has to say enough is enough, and I think they picked a pretty obvious place to put the line. Don't you?

No. If they both have access to the technology, it should even out. Shouldn't it? I'm sure I'm just being obtuse here, but it's not intentional.

Yes, you're correct, you're being very obtuse. The point of my post was that part about "more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team" and not the part about who has the best.Football is not a game of electronic spyware countermeasures. It's an athletic sport. You know, athletics? A competition of physical skill and ability? Not a competition of videographers, code breakers, and lip readers?

OK, so where is the athletics in studying game footage? Football players do that.Can you explain to me the difference between using technology (cameras, various AV equipment) to study game footage in a historical context before the game to predict your opponent's tendencies and likely play calling over using technology (cameras various AV equipment) to study game footage in a real time context as the game happens to predict your opponent's tendencies and likely play calling?

Isn't it obvious that using electronics to spy on the actual calls when they are being made is different than using electronics to study your opponent and then having to use your own eyes and mind when on the field?If what I'm saying isn't common sense, then you tell me where the line should be drawn. You're saying it's ok to use zoom lenses to zoom in on the play callers to learn the calls and flash them to your own team. Is it ok to hire lipreaders to help out? Is it ok to have parabolic mikes and laser mikes? Is it ok to hire some kid from MIT to come hack the other team's headset frequency so you can hear the play call? Is it ok to install radios into all of your player's helmets? Is it ok to put a camera and recording devices in the locker rooms so you can hear what their half-time adjustments are? Is it ok to have someone hide in their locker room rather than using electronics? Is it ok to dress someone up in the opposing staff's attire and send them over to stand on their sideline and signal back what they find out?Where in that list do you propose the line be drawn, and on what basis did you decide to draw it where you did?

I think I'll be won over if you can tell me the major difference between players watching game film of an opponent and all the other stuff. It's all use of technology and all of it has applications on the field. I don't think it can be prevented, is why I think it should be allowed. How do we know more crazy stuff isn't happening? I don't think I'm right, I just want someone to help me understand.

 

[schooner44]

I guess this is really going to tarnish the "genius" label. At what point do they just take away a #1 pick and make a real statement?

A pick doesn't hit them hard enough especially since this is not the first time. They cheated and should forfeit that game therefore giving them a loss and the Jets a win. This will never happen since the NFL has crazy man-love for the Patriots but it would sure send a message to the league. Goodell has been harsh so far with suspensions of players and this is worse than someone getting a DUI so the punishment should be as well.

 

[GregR_2]

Is this illegal? Why? I think it should be acceptable. If your signals get stolen, then make up a better signalling process. Can someone explain to me why this is so bad?

Because fans want to see a game played on the field, and not dependent on who has the best zooming video camera, parabolic mikes or other listening devices, or any other piece of electronics that is more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team.I've got no problem if a coach watches the other team signaling in plays and tries to deduce what their signs are. When teams start hiring lip readers (as has been done in the past), or bringing electronics into it to spy on other teams, what in the hell does that have to do with football? At some point the league has to say enough is enough, and I think they picked a pretty obvious place to put the line. Don't you?

No. If they both have access to the technology, it should even out. Shouldn't it? I'm sure I'm just being obtuse here, but it's not intentional.

Yes, you're correct, you're being very obtuse. The point of my post was that part about "more appropriate for use by the CIA than by a football team" and not the part about who has the best.Football is not a game of electronic spyware countermeasures. It's an athletic sport. You know, athletics? A competition of physical skill and ability? Not a competition of videographers, code breakers, and lip readers?

OK, so where is the athletics in studying game footage? Football players do that.Can you explain to me the difference between using technology (cameras, various AV equipment) to study game footage in a historical context before the game to predict your opponent's tendencies and likely play calling over using technology (cameras various AV equipment) to study game footage in a real time context as the game happens to predict your opponent's tendencies and likely play calling?

Isn't it obvious that using electronics to spy on the actual calls when they are being made is different than using electronics to study your opponent and then having to use your own eyes and mind when on the field?If what I'm saying isn't common sense, then you tell me where the line should be drawn. You're saying it's ok to use zoom lenses to zoom in on the play callers to learn the calls and flash them to your own team. Is it ok to hire lipreaders to help out? Is it ok to have parabolic mikes and laser mikes? Is it ok to hire some kid from MIT to come hack the other team's headset frequency so you can hear the play call? Is it ok to install radios into all of your player's helmets? Is it ok to put a camera and recording devices in the locker rooms so you can hear what their half-time adjustments are? Is it ok to have someone hide in their locker room rather than using electronics? Is it ok to dress someone up in the opposing staff's attire and send them over to stand on their sideline and signal back what they find out?Where in that list do you propose the line be drawn, and on what basis did you decide to draw it where you did?

I think I'll be won over if you can tell me the major difference between players watching game film of an opponent and all the other stuff. It's all use of technology and all of it has applications on the field. I don't think it can be prevented, is why I think it should be allowed. How do we know more crazy stuff isn't happening? I don't think I'm right, I just want someone to help me understand.

I already told you the difference is one is preparing yourself for a game and leaving you only your mental and physical ability to actually perform with on the field, and the other is spying. Now how about answering my question? If where I'm saying the line should be drawn is incorrect, then enlighten us where it should be drawn and why you put it where you do.

 

[reg]

so it would have been legal for the guy to sit in the front row, videotape, and pass signals to someone else who is on the sidelines?

No. Why would you think it would be? Doing so would add violating the stadiums ban on people recording the games to violating the NFL rule against teams recording the play callers.

"The rule is that no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game," the league said in a statement from spokesman Greg Aiello.

Doesn't say anything about in the stands.

 

[TD Ryan]

this is worse than someone getting a DUI

to me, that's crazy talkthat's a warped perception of right and wrong there.I guess maybe that is the bigger problem in all of this.the opinions on how "bad" this is really do range from:- it's gamesmanshipto-it's worse than drinking and drivingtherefore, there will be little reasonable discussion here.