Pats penalty by Goodell (1 Viewer)

[twitch]

At this point, I just wanna know how much extra loot all this board activity puts in Joe B's pocket???? I hope this translates in cash terms, Joe and Dave, because your site is absolutely on fire!

on a more serioius note- FANTASY IMPLICATIONS now with the Pats....

I see this spiking all Pats offensive players' #s, specifically Brady. These guys have a whole lot to prove, and I dont think theyll settle for 'conservative' wins as much as they have in the past. Thoughts, or a seperate thread later when things calm down??

 

[az_prof]

They have 2 1st round picks talk about a slap on the wrist should have been suspended!

The Timber Wolves lost three first round picks I believe for a much smaller offense. The fines are signficant but the picks or prohibition from Hall of Fame would have meant much more than money. These guys all have plenty of money.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Pats should be thankful, because if it was my decision it would have been much worse.

Shocking. Jon, please go back to playing poker.

They got a slap on the wrist IMO. But they still have to live with the "taint" that is all over them...GL with that.

1st round pick is a slap on the wrist? You have 22 starters on your team. Its a starter. Pretty significant.

 

[Gambino]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

But their 1st is essentially a 2nd.

 

[mad sweeney]

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I'm pretty sure that the Competition Committee looked at this rule change in the offseason but eventually decided against it. I haven't seen the reasoning behind their decision.

Short by two votes, primarily b/c (unlike the QB) the same defensive player/position is not necessarily always on the field and calling the defensive plays to the teammates (IOW, if ray Lewis is off the field, maybe Ed Reed calls the d plays - or vice versa - and you can't have two D players on the field both with radio helmets.

These organizations make bazillions a year. I am sure they could afford to have spare helmets sitting around IF one of players with this cabability were to be hurt. Put the green dot on the helmet and the refs can police from there.

See my other posts about the logistics of enforcing that. I don't think it's the cost of it, rather the upkeep of teams and refs making sure that there is at least, and no more than, one guy with the helmet.

 

[cobalt_27]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

But their 1st is essentially a 2nd.

Still...

 

[Bankerguy]

The draft pick is a stiff penalty and fair. No suspension is ridiculous. As someone already mentioned. Wade Wilson gets 5 games for taking a drug to treat ED so he can make love to his wife. Yet this gets no suspension? Please explain it to me........and sloooooooooowly, cause it makes no sense.

HGH makes your diabetes WORSE, according to most doctors. That "excuse" was a joke.

Fine I am NOT a doctor nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night. However, help me with the following then:A COACH takes HGH how does that help his team?BB is caught cheating and giving his team a significant edge.One offense gets 5 games, and the other no games. WTF.Please know, I am not a Pats hater.However, as an NFL fan first and foremost I am disgusted by this ruling.

One is a coach who bought a banned substance, yea he used it on himself but still, he had it. I'm sure the rules are standard for being in possesion of a banned substance beit a player or coach. He got 5 games and 100k fine.The other used a video camera. It's not that he was stealing signs which every team, player, coach, and analyst has agreed happens all the time, it's just the way he did it. He/the team got a 750k fine and will probable lose a 1st round pick, which is huge. Granted, they have another but that should not factor into the decision, teams trade away and for picks all of the time but they are only GIVEN one 1st round pick from the league therefore they should only take one 1st round pick away.

That's why we test the players. Who cares what Wilson puts in his body?A coach who takes medication (even if a banned substance) > a coach caught cheating. Very hard to swallow.

How do you know that all of it went into his body? If it's in he's body that means bought some. He coaches a professional sports team and has a banned substance. Is it a huge leap to think that some of it made it to the players? or that he got it from the players?

Then players would caught for using it if tested......this is NOT rocket science.

 

[Gambino]

Pats should be thankful, because if it was my decision it would have been much worse.

Shocking. Jon, please go back to playing poker.

They got a slap on the wrist IMO. But they still have to live with the "taint" that is all over them...GL with that.

1st round pick is a slap on the wrist? You have 22 starters on your team. Its a starter. Pretty significant.

For them yes. If they took Atlanta's 1st that would be a big deal. The shame of this is that the Pats didn't really need to do this. If I were a Pats fan I'd be sick to my stomach thinking about the black eye that this creates. BB is clearly absent of any ethical or moral compass.

 

[Marc Levin]

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I'm pretty sure that the Competition Committee looked at this rule change in the offseason but eventually decided against it. I haven't seen the reasoning behind their decision.

Short by two votes, primarily b/c (unlike the QB) the same defensive player/position is not necessarily always on the field and calling the defensive plays to the teammates (IOW, if ray Lewis is off the field, maybe Ed Reed calls the d plays - or vice versa - and you can't have two D players on the field both with radio helmets.

These organizations make bazillions a year. I am sure they could afford to have spare helmets sitting around IF one of players with this cabability were to be hurt. Put the green dot on the helmet and the refs can police from there.

The league is resistant to change - what do you want? I wasn't in the meeting room. Who knows why these steamheads really didn't want to dfo it.That was one of the reasons given.

 

[bostonfred]

There have been a lot of posts recently about how the Patriots have been shoved down people's throats as this high character organization that would never do anything wrong. Is that where the vitriol is coming from? I ask because, as a Patriots fan, I haven't thought of them as an especially high character organization for some time now. I don't think Harrison is a high character guy. I've liked him since he was with the Chargers, but he's not a character guy. Moss? He's not as bad as some make him out to be, but he's definitely not a character guy, either. And their first round pick this year was the dude that stomped some guy's head in a college game.

Guys like Troy Brown and Tedy Bruschi are great character guys. Brady is one of the most likable guys in the NFL, although I suppose a Yankees fan would say that about Jeter, so I can understand why people would point at anything Brady did wrong and dislike him, because I do the same with Jeter. It's not apples to apples, because Jeter is a dink, but oh well.

And now this. I think we can put the choir boy image of the Patriots to rest, but in my mind, it hasn't been there in ages. If people feel it's been thrown in their faces, though, I can see how they'd come to hate this team, especially if the Pats had knocked them out of the playoffs a few times.

 

[Gambino]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

But their 1st is essentially a 2nd.

Still...

If I was the commish, no fines...they don't matter.Dock their salary cap.BB suspended for the rest of this season.Two 1st round picks.The NFL can NOT afford to have the integrity of their games brought into question...this isn't the NBA. Too much at stake.

 

[Bankerguy]

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I'm pretty sure that the Competition Committee looked at this rule change in the offseason but eventually decided against it. I haven't seen the reasoning behind their decision.

Short by two votes, primarily b/c (unlike the QB) the same defensive player/position is not necessarily always on the field and calling the defensive plays to the teammates (IOW, if ray Lewis is off the field, maybe Ed Reed calls the d plays - or vice versa - and you can't have two D players on the field both with radio helmets.

These organizations make bazillions a year. I am sure they could afford to have spare helmets sitting around IF one of players with this cabability were to be hurt. Put the green dot on the helmet and the refs can police from there.

The league is resistant to change - what do you want? I wasn't in the meeting room. Who knows why these steamheads really didn't want to dfo it.That was one of the reasons given.

Well maybe they will change their tunes now.I want the league I love to ensure the game has some integrity.Call me crazy.

 

[Marc Levin]

Sorry, have a new job and have my head up my ### about things like news. Didn't want to take the time to scroll through 10 threads to find info. I guess I have to if I want to learn exactly how it was used in-gmae.

Was not used in this game - camera was seized in the 1st Q.Used in other games.Sorry - just don't need to see a fourth thread slowed down by this - read one of the shorter threads on the subject. I think in the shorter thread about the appropriate penalty, Joe asked this question and it was answered pretty well.

 

[cobalt_27]

Pats should be thankful, because if it was my decision it would have been much worse.

Shocking. Jon, please go back to playing poker.

They got a slap on the wrist IMO. But they still have to live with the "taint" that is all over them...GL with that.

1st round pick is a slap on the wrist? You have 22 starters on your team. Its a starter. Pretty significant.

For them yes. If they took Atlanta's 1st that would be a big deal. The shame of this is that the Pats didn't really need to do this. If I were a Pats fan I'd be sick to my stomach thinking about the black eye that this creates. BB is clearly absent of any ethical or moral compass.

He's a major league dooshbag, but Pats fans don't care about that, obviously. They only care about their 3 SB rings, which is understandable. Oh, that and whining about why no one pays them any respect.

 

[LDotson]

And we all thought Randy Moss's outbursts or antics would be the topic of discussion by now for the Pats....lol

Of course the season isn't over.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Totally serious. The Pats will easily overcome the loss of a pick that would be an overall #27-32 pick. They won't miss a beat.J

But thats not the issue. It shouldn't even part of the penalty deliberation.They lost a 1st round pick in what many think is the best draft class in a quarter century.Also that draft pick can get 5 years on a very favorable rookie contract. That will leave a serious mark. Just because they can handle it (as I know my Steelers could) doesnt change the "properness" of the penalty.

Joe didn't say the penalty was appropriate, he said Patriot fans should be happy with this penalty as opposed to what it could have been.

Thank you BFSJ

 

[twitch]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

But their 1st is essentially a 2nd.

Still...

If I was the commish, no fines...they don't matter.Dock their salary cap.BB suspended for the rest of this season.Two 1st round picks.The NFL can NOT afford to have the integrity of their games brought into question...this isn't the NBA. Too much at stake.

this has got to be at the top of the list.....and with that Av, its even all the more rock solid! shoulda just made the guy wear a friggin' pink cardigan with bunny slippers on top of it all...and coach all future Jets games from the stands. stick it to 'em, Godfather.

 

[Gambino]

Glad the Pats can go back to dominating the NFL now. Nothings going to change. If anything this will bring the team together! I can see them beating the Chargers this weekend and carrying Bill off the field on their shoulders. It's going to be like a scene from a movie. I can't wait!

Will they tape it?

 

[raor]

There have been a lot of posts recently about how the Patriots have been shoved down people's throats as this high character organization that would never do anything wrong. Is that where the vitriol is coming from? I ask because, as a Patriots fan, I haven't thought of them as an especially high character organization for some time now. I don't think Harrison is a high character guy. I've liked him since he was with the Chargers, but he's not a character guy. Moss? He's not as bad as some make him out to be, but he's definitely not a character guy, either. And their first round pick this year was the dude that stomped some guy's head in a college game. Guys like Troy Brown and Tedy Bruschi are great character guys. Brady is one of the most likable guys in the NFL, although I suppose a Yankees fan would say that about Jeter, so I can understand why people would point at anything Brady did wrong and dislike him, because I do the same with Jeter. It's not apples to apples, because Jeter is a dink, but oh well. And now this. I think we can put the choir boy image of the Patriots to rest, but in my mind, it hasn't been there in ages. If people feel it's been thrown in their faces, though, I can see how they'd come to hate this team, especially if the Pats had knocked them out of the playoffs a few times.

I don't feel like digging it up, but a good example that comes to mind is Florio at ProFootballTalk posting about the head-stomper you mention above. If I remember correctly, Florio was shocked that a "class organization like the Patriots would sully their image by taking a low character guy that early in the draft" (or something to that effect). Furthermore, the Patriots are always regarded as a team that would pass on the low-character guys in the draft. I don't know if that is accurate, definately not this year, but it has been the way the organization was described by the talking heads.Another decent example is all the brouhaha after the acquisition of guys like Moss and Dillon. People were shocked a "bad apple" like Dillon would be accepted by the Patriots. The word was a class organization that has a high standard for the behavior of its players would have a great effect on Moss.

 

[teeman11]

The draft pick is a stiff penalty and fair. No suspension is ridiculous. As someone already mentioned. Wade Wilson gets 5 games for taking a drug to treat ED so he can make love to his wife. Yet this gets no suspension? Please explain it to me........and sloooooooooowly, cause it makes no sense.

HGH makes your diabetes WORSE, according to most doctors. That "excuse" was a joke.

Fine I am NOT a doctor nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night. However, help me with the following then:A COACH takes HGH how does that help his team?BB is caught cheating and giving his team a significant edge.One offense gets 5 games, and the other no games. WTF.Please know, I am not a Pats hater.However, as an NFL fan first and foremost I am disgusted by this ruling.

One is a coach who bought a banned substance, yea he used it on himself but still, he had it. I'm sure the rules are standard for being in possesion of a banned substance beit a player or coach. He got 5 games and 100k fine.The other used a video camera. It's not that he was stealing signs which every team, player, coach, and analyst has agreed happens all the time, it's just the way he did it. He/the team got a 750k fine and will probable lose a 1st round pick, which is huge. Granted, they have another but that should not factor into the decision, teams trade away and for picks all of the time but they are only GIVEN one 1st round pick from the league therefore they should only take one 1st round pick away.

That's why we test the players. Who cares what Wilson puts in his body?A coach who takes medication (even if a banned substance) > a coach caught cheating. Very hard to swallow.

How do you know that all of it went into his body? If it's in he's body that means bought some. He coaches a professional sports team and has a banned substance. Is it a huge leap to think that some of it made it to the players? or that he got it from the players?

Then players would caught for using it if tested......this is NOT rocket science.

Ummm..... you're right ,this is not rocket science but I was under the impression that there was no test for HGH. Players and coaches were suspended because it was proven that they purchased HGH during a federal investigation. If I'm wrong then it's a different story but...... no test, coach has some, I mean.... come on.

 

[Bankerguy]

Glad the Pats can go back to dominating the NFL now. Nothings going to change. If anything this will bring the team together! I can see them beating the Chargers this weekend and carrying Bill off the field on their shoulders. It's going to be like a scene from a movie. I can't wait!

 

[bostonfred]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

But their 1st is essentially a 2nd.

Still...

If I was the commish, no fines...they don't matter.Dock their salary cap.BB suspended for the rest of this season.Two 1st round picks.The NFL can NOT afford to have the integrity of their games brought into question...this isn't the NBA. Too much at stake.

The fines don't matter? Tell that to Mike Tice, who was hawking tickets to make a few extra bucks. Take a half million from him and see how he feels. And that's the point. Despite the fact that this is a hall of fame coach we're talking about in this instance, the bigger concern in stopping this practice long term is preventing the one year, stopgap guys who make less than a million to begin with from doing it. Wait until they're on the hot seat, and they're under pressure to win now, and the guys who have the most motivation to cheat will be the ones with the least to lose. Unless you show them that the standard penalty is a half million dollars. In which case, they'll be crapping their pants. Which is a necessary protection for the teams that hire them. There needs to be a penalty for both the coach and the team if you want to prevent this.

 

[Workhorse]

The draft pick is a stiff penalty and fair. No suspension is ridiculous. As someone already mentioned. Wade Wilson gets 5 games for taking a drug to treat ED so he can make love to his wife. Yet this gets no suspension? Please explain it to me........and sloooooooooowly, cause it makes no sense.

HGH makes your diabetes WORSE, according to most doctors. That "excuse" was a joke.

Fine I am NOT a doctor nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night. However, help me with the following then:A COACH takes HGH how does that help his team?BB is caught cheating and giving his team a significant edge.One offense gets 5 games, and the other no games. WTF.Please know, I am not a Pats hater.However, as an NFL fan first and foremost I am disgusted by this ruling.

One is a coach who bought a banned substance, yea he used it on himself but still, he had it. I'm sure the rules are standard for being in possesion of a banned substance beit a player or coach. He got 5 games and 100k fine.The other used a video camera. It's not that he was stealing signs which every team, player, coach, and analyst has agreed happens all the time, it's just the way he did it. He/the team got a 750k fine and will probable lose a 1st round pick, which is huge. Granted, they have another but that should not factor into the decision, teams trade away and for picks all of the time but they are only GIVEN one 1st round pick from the league therefore they should only take one 1st round pick away.

That's why we test the players. Who cares what Wilson puts in his body?A coach who takes medication (even if a banned substance) > a coach caught cheating. Very hard to swallow.

How do you know that all of it went into his body? If it's in he's body that means bought some. He coaches a professional sports team and has a banned substance. Is it a huge leap to think that some of it made it to the players? or that he got it from the players?

Then players would caught for using it if tested......this is NOT rocket science.

There's no testing for HGH in the NFL. Not even in rockets.

 

[cobalt_27]

I think we can put the choir boy image of the Patriots to rest, but in my mind, it hasn't been there in ages. If people feel it's been thrown in their faces, though, I can see how they'd come to hate this team, especially if the Pats had knocked them out of the playoffs a few times.

It's been shoved down our throats, no doubt. As a Cowboy fan, paying attention mostly to activity on the other conference, I couldn't care less about the Patriots. But, it's clearly been the storyline the fans and the team (and of course the media) have jumped on repeatedly.I don't think that has much to do, though, with folks cheering for the Pats to get screwed here. This is about the personality of a head coach, who's a major tool, who thinks he's smarter than everyone else, and that he can shove a middle finger up Goodell's nose without any repercussions. If this were Mike Martz, I think people would be equally gleeful of him getting punished.Although, it appears tonight's action wasn't enough to satisfy the masses. I think it's totally appropriate.

 

[Sweeper]

I am sure whatever penalty is imposed will be appealed and am willing to bet that there is some sort of concession made with a more palatable penalty.

The Patriots better accept this and be happy. It should have been much worse. Goodell is the one that imposed the penalty, I sincerely doubt he'll determine he was too harsh. It will not be reduced.

How? Forfeit all draft picks for the next 10 years and be docked $30 million off the salary cap?I have already said that I think Belichek should have been suspended 4 games. Any penalty to Belichek you want to give I am happy with. How could you possibly punish the team "much worse"?

I would have been happy with....A fine to the organizination.

BB suspended 4-6 games.

A 2 nd or a 3rd round draft pick.

....and the Commish threatening a banning to next person caught doing it.

Without integrity this game we all love means nothing.

OH, let the defense have 1 player who wears a helmet with audio (Like the offense)

I would agree with your penalty and I dont think that is worse than what they got.

In all seriousness, maybe the worst part about this is that the Pats' mini-dynasty will now forever be viewed with similar skepticism to Bonds' home run record. There will always be that asterisk.

I completly disagree with this statment. In fact, I think that this will be a by-line by the playoffs.

How does this "tarnish" and "put a question mark" on the Patriots and their previous SB victories?

Reactions and comments made by players on other teams make it obvious that this is not all that uncommon of an undertaking. The Pats are simply the first team, not to get caught, but to get fined. So knowing it has gone on previously, how does it tarnish past performances?

Well, it doesn't negate the SB wins, and it shouldn't. But I think it definitely tarnishes the team. This i s a franchise that has built their reputation on simply executing better than anyone else in spite of not loading up with star players, mainly because their coaches are smarter and better tacticians than everyone else's. Doesn't the admission of cheating cast some doubt on that?

To some extent but like I have been saying ... this practice is common in the NFL and done (to some extent) by many teams. It is simply a matter of degree. It is okay for a team to study an opponent's hand signals and listen in on play calling, just not to use a camera for that specific purpose? I didn't know that was a violation. Did you?

As mentioned earlier in this thread, last year the Dolphins boasted that they knew what the Pats were going to do because they studied the audio and hand signals over the week before the game.

When the Pats lost that game I was thinking ... "smart move, the Pats got one-up'd on that one and I bet that never happens again". Why was that play-call "scouting" okay but not this one? What wasn't that called out as cheating by the NFL but this was?

I didn't know any of this stuff before this episode. But it's not surprising that videotaping an opponent's signals is a much more serious violation than just intercepting them in a more temporary manner. Having a video library at hand of what your opponents are doing at a given signal would seem to me to be pretty advantageous.

Oh, no doubt about it. Now I have heard about scouting playcalls but never really gave it much thought. I remember discussions where it was mantioned as "strategy" and when it popped up I always thought of it as a "smart coaching move". I was not aware of video taping the calls or had any reason to think it was outside of the realm of "coaching", Egh, now I know.

Anyway, it is certianly nice to know what the defense is going to throw at you I just thought if one team had it, they all would.

 

[Sweeper]

I think the most appropriate penalty would've been to fine the Patriots part of their salary cap over the next 2-3 years.

Oh wow. There could be a very legitimate argument for this penalty.

 

[az_prof]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

But their 1st is essentially a 2nd.

Still...

If this is a serious penalty ask yourself: how many of you would be willing to trade a late first round pick for a Super Bowl?

 

[bostonfred]

There have been a lot of posts recently about how the Patriots have been shoved down people's throats as this high character organization that would never do anything wrong. Is that where the vitriol is coming from? I ask because, as a Patriots fan, I haven't thought of them as an especially high character organization for some time now. I don't think Harrison is a high character guy. I've liked him since he was with the Chargers, but he's not a character guy. Moss? He's not as bad as some make him out to be, but he's definitely not a character guy, either. And their first round pick this year was the dude that stomped some guy's head in a college game. Guys like Troy Brown and Tedy Bruschi are great character guys. Brady is one of the most likable guys in the NFL, although I suppose a Yankees fan would say that about Jeter, so I can understand why people would point at anything Brady did wrong and dislike him, because I do the same with Jeter. It's not apples to apples, because Jeter is a dink, but oh well. And now this. I think we can put the choir boy image of the Patriots to rest, but in my mind, it hasn't been there in ages. If people feel it's been thrown in their faces, though, I can see how they'd come to hate this team, especially if the Pats had knocked them out of the playoffs a few times.

I don't feel like digging it up, but a good example that comes to mind is Florio at ProFootballTalk posting about the head-stomper you mention above. If I remember correctly, Florio was shocked that a "class organization like the Patriots would sully their image by taking a low character guy that early in the draft" (or something to that effect). Furthermore, the Patriots are always regarded as a team that would pass on the low-character guys in the draft. I don't know if that is accurate, definately not this year, but it has been the way the organization was described by the talking heads.Another decent example is all the brouhaha after the acquisition of guys like Moss and Dillon. People were shocked a "bad apple" like Dillon would be accepted by the Patriots. The word was a class organization that has a high standard for the behavior of its players would have a great effect on Moss.

Yeah, but that's kind of my point. I think they let the class organization thing go long before the media did. The way I saw it, the reason Belichick wanted Moss is that he was really good, and the reason people were shocked that Belichick wanted Moss is that he was really lazy, and the reason the Patriots would have a good effect on Moss is that the veterans wouldn't let him be lazy. It wasn't about him wearing a suit and tie to Sunday dinner and standing whenever a lady walked into the room, it was about football. I think maybe the media image from 2001, which lingered in fans' minds like yours long after the Pats started bringing in the Dillons and Harrisons and Meriweathers and Mosses, lasted a lot longer than it did in mine. I guess I was just surprised to hear it so much.

 

[Workhorse]

I think the most appropriate penalty would've been to fine the Patriots part of their salary cap over the next 2-3 years.

Oh wow. There could be a very legitimate argument for this penalty.

Really? You honestly think so? The Broncos never got a salary cap penalty for cheating the salary cap.Think about that.

 

[HellToupee]

A 1st round pick is a heavy penalty but they are fortunate it wasn't two picks. I would say Kraft's standing within the league came into play here.

 

[Marc Levin]

I think the most appropriate penalty would've been to fine the Patriots part of their salary cap over the next 2-3 years.

Oh wow. There could be a very legitimate argument for this penalty.

Really? You honestly think so? The Broncos never got a salary cap penalty for cheating the salary cap.Think about that.

Plus the salary cap is part of the league's CBA with the NFLPA.Goodell wouldn't have authority on his own to modify the CBA like that.

 

[Pittsburgh United]

And we all thought Randy Moss's outbursts or antics would be the topic of discussion by now for the Pats....lolOf course the season isn't over.

Compared to his coach, Randy Moss is a model character guy.

 

[bostonfred]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

But their 1st is essentially a 2nd.

Still...

If this is a serious penalty ask yourself: how many of you would be willing to trade a late first round pick for a Super Bowl?

There are supposedly ten teams out there doing this with varying frequency. Apparently all ten of them have won multiple Superbowls recently.

 

[cobalt_27]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

But their 1st is essentially a 2nd.

Still...

If this is a serious penalty ask yourself: how many of you would be willing to trade a late first round pick for a Super Bowl?

If you attribute their SB success to videotaping the opposition, then I guess you'd make that trade. I think there were other factors involved in their success. Cheating was part of it, I'm sure (I doubt BB just figured out in Week 1 of 2007 to do this). But, I don't think it's the entire reason they won 3 SBs.

 

[Gambino]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

But their 1st is essentially a 2nd.

Still...

If I was the commish, no fines...they don't matter.Dock their salary cap.BB suspended for the rest of this season.Two 1st round picks.The NFL can NOT afford to have the integrity of their games brought into question...this isn't the NBA. Too much at stake.

The fines don't matter? Tell that to Mike Tice, who was hawking tickets to make a few extra bucks. Take a half million from him and see how he feels. And that's the point. Despite the fact that this is a hall of fame coach we're talking about in this instance, the bigger concern in stopping this practice long term is preventing the one year, stopgap guys who make less than a million to begin with from doing it. Wait until they're on the hot seat, and they're under pressure to win now, and the guys who have the most motivation to cheat will be the ones with the least to lose. Unless you show them that the standard penalty is a half million dollars. In which case, they'll be crapping their pants. Which is a necessary protection for the teams that hire them. There needs to be a penalty for both the coach and the team if you want to prevent this.

Lol. If we were talking about Red McCombs then, yes it matters. But you don't really think the guy in the hoody is paying this out of his pocket do you?

 

[HellToupee]

I would think Patriots fans would be happy . They have two 1s next year so they'll still have one and will have a more motivated team.

 

[Marc Levin]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

But their 1st is essentially a 2nd.

Still...

If this is a serious penalty ask yourself: how many of you would be willing to trade a late first round pick for a Super Bowl?

There are supposedly ten teams out there doing this with varying frequency. Apparently all ten of them have won multiple Superbowls recently.

I am trying to accept that most folks haven;t gotten their heads around the concept Bfred's been preaching.The penalty must fit the crime, not the criminal. Just b/c the Pats can weather this or have had S.B.'s in the past, or BB makes a lot of money, or whatever are not relevant considerations.

 

[raor]

There have been a lot of posts recently about how the Patriots have been shoved down people's throats as this high character organization that would never do anything wrong. Is that where the vitriol is coming from? I ask because, as a Patriots fan, I haven't thought of them as an especially high character organization for some time now. I don't think Harrison is a high character guy. I've liked him since he was with the Chargers, but he's not a character guy. Moss? He's not as bad as some make him out to be, but he's definitely not a character guy, either. And their first round pick this year was the dude that stomped some guy's head in a college game. Guys like Troy Brown and Tedy Bruschi are great character guys. Brady is one of the most likable guys in the NFL, although I suppose a Yankees fan would say that about Jeter, so I can understand why people would point at anything Brady did wrong and dislike him, because I do the same with Jeter. It's not apples to apples, because Jeter is a dink, but oh well. And now this. I think we can put the choir boy image of the Patriots to rest, but in my mind, it hasn't been there in ages. If people feel it's been thrown in their faces, though, I can see how they'd come to hate this team, especially if the Pats had knocked them out of the playoffs a few times.

I don't feel like digging it up, but a good example that comes to mind is Florio at ProFootballTalk posting about the head-stomper you mention above. If I remember correctly, Florio was shocked that a "class organization like the Patriots would sully their image by taking a low character guy that early in the draft" (or something to that effect). Furthermore, the Patriots are always regarded as a team that would pass on the low-character guys in the draft. I don't know if that is accurate, definately not this year, but it has been the way the organization was described by the talking heads.Another decent example is all the brouhaha after the acquisition of guys like Moss and Dillon. People were shocked a "bad apple" like Dillon would be accepted by the Patriots. The word was a class organization that has a high standard for the behavior of its players would have a great effect on Moss.

Yeah, but that's kind of my point. I think they let the class organization thing go long before the media did. The way I saw it, the reason Belichick wanted Moss is that he was really good, and the reason people were shocked that Belichick wanted Moss is that he was really lazy, and the reason the Patriots would have a good effect on Moss is that the veterans wouldn't let him be lazy. It wasn't about him wearing a suit and tie to Sunday dinner and standing whenever a lady walked into the room, it was about football. I think maybe the media image from 2001, which lingered in fans' minds like yours long after the Pats started bringing in the Dillons and Harrisons and Meriweathers and Mosses, lasted a lot longer than it did in mine. I guess I was just surprised to hear it so much.

I think you're totally right on that perception - still doesn't change my opinion that Bellichick is a cancer on the NFL (in light of this cheating); similar, but to a lesser degree, to how Bonds is a cancer on MLB. Maybe the wink-nod I've been talking about was an assurance that the Pats wouldn't re-up Bellichick.

 

[Marc Levin]

But you don't really think the guy in the hoody is paying this out of his pocket do you?

Yeah - I do.And yeah - he is.He might make it back next year, but he's paying it now.

 

[Englishteacher]

Fire and Brimstone!!!

 

[HellToupee]

But you don't really think the guy in the hoody is paying this out of his pocket do you?

Yeah - I do.And yeah - he is.He might make it back next year, but he's paying it now.

more important than the $$$ from his pocket ,he is paying it with his tarnished rep

 

[Bankerguy]

Lets put this into a Fantasy Football perspective.

You catch someone in your home FF league doing something to impact the scores of your fantasy games.

Let's assume it's $100 league. Who would fine the player $10 and they forfeit their 1 first pick year?

 

[az_prof]

Does anyone know the last time a team lost a first round pick as a punishment? Has it happened before?

That's my point. I don't think this is a light penalty, at all. Especially, given how you guys have been downplaying this infraction, saying it's not much of a big deal and that everyone does it. Sheesh. For such small potatoes, this all seems like a pretty stiff penalty to me.

But their 1st is essentially a 2nd.

Still...

If this is a serious penalty ask yourself: how many of you would be willing to trade a late first round pick for a Super Bowl?

If you attribute their SB success to videotaping the opposition, then I guess you'd make that trade. I think there were other factors involved in their success. Cheating was part of it, I'm sure (I doubt BB just figured out in Week 1 of 2007 to do this). But, I don't think it's the entire reason they won 3 SBs.

Of course, we'll never know will we, whether they could have won without cheating or not? And, obviously they thought it was important enough that they did it even though they had been warned by the league not to do it. If you don't think it is that important to your success wouldn't you just say 'hey we got away with it for a while...let's move on'?

 

[Gambino]

But you don't really think the guy in the hoody is paying this out of his pocket do you?

Yeah - I do.And yeah - he is.He might make it back next year, but he's paying it now.

That is illogical. My wife is going to pay our DirecTv bill tomorrow, but rest assured it is MY MONEY. BB loses nothing here.

 

[Banger]

I thought the penalty is about right although I thought BB deserved to be suspended.

 

[raor]

Lets put this into a Fantasy Football perspective.You catch someone in your home FF league doing something to impact the scores of your fantasy games.Let's assume it's $100 league. Who would fine the player $10 and they forfeit their 1 first pick year?

I was commish of a league where two players colluded regarding trades. I banned them, no apparent collusion since.Not sure if this is an accurate comparison, but I doubt any league where someone cheats would allow the cheater toremain beyond the immediate season.

 

[Gambino]

But you don't really think the guy in the hoody is paying this out of his pocket do you?

Yeah - I do.And yeah - he is.He might make it back next year, but he's paying it now.

more important than the $$$ from his pocket ,he is paying it with his tarnished rep

I agree, but he isn't losing this money.

 

[HellToupee]

Lets put this into a Fantasy Football perspective.You catch someone in your home FF league doing something to impact the scores of your fantasy games.Let's assume it's $100 league. Who would fine the player $10 and they forfeit their 1 first pick year?

I'd call him a cheater & ban him from the FFL

 

[jonessed]

Slap on the wrist. Goodell loses credibility on this one. Too bad, looked like he was making some progress.

 

[Marc Levin]

Lets put this into a Fantasy Football perspective.You catch someone in your home FF league doing something to impact the scores of your fantasy games.Let's assume it's $100 league. Who would fine the player $10 and they forfeit their 1 first pick year?

not the way it would be handledYou don't fine him a portion of the pay-in - you fine him a portion of the payout.