Pats WR3? (1 Viewer)

[captain_amazing]

So who is going to be the WR3 with Holt definitively out of the picture for the season?

My guess is that the discussion can only be between Brandon Tate and Julian Edelman, unless Price or Farnham turn some heads in the upcoming preseason games.

Brandon Tate College Stats

46/927/8

Rec yds avg per gm: 19.03

Julian Edelman 09 Stats

37/359/1

Rec yds avg per gm: 9.7

The comparison is difficult if you just do stats comparison, I think. I'm sure you could break down the stats so they are more comparable too, but I'll leave that for others. I have never seen Tate in college, but watched every Pats game last season, and saw how ridiculously good Edelman was.

I am leaning one way, but will wait for a few posts before I put in my 2 cents. I am really curious what others think.

 

[David Yudkin]

I see Edelman and Welker playing the same position. So I don'e see many sets or plays where the two will be used at the same time. I would expect Tate to be on the field more than Edelman. As for overall production fantasy wise, Tate and Edelman could still be fairly close. But in *MOST* regular size, regular scoring leagues, neither one will likely be a great fantasy option.

 

[rizzler]

not WISHING injury on welker, since I dont own edelman... but I have a gut feeling Welker doesnt last the season.

he plays a hard, fast cutting game, and that knee is gonna be fressssssssssh.

 

[Bobtender]

Holt was never going to make this team.

Edleman will be #3 he is to exciting to not be on the field.

I believe he did have time as an X receiver last before Welker got hurt so I think that they can co-exist on the field at the same time.

Boy would that be fun to watch. Welker slant left. Edleman slant right. Over the top to Moss.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

It depends on what you mean by #3. It'll be Moss and Welker, then a mix of the other guys, but I wouldn't write off Price being a part of that mix. Assuming he develops, the guy has everything you look for in a starting receiver, inside OR outside. Other than Moss, he's their biggest AND fastest receiver, with good hands, good separation, and a great attitude.

Personally, I give the long-term edge to Price over Tate. He just has more of a true "starter" look to him (vs. kick-returner/spot receiver).

 

[maacages]

It depends on what you mean by #3. It'll be Moss and Welker, then a mix of the other guys, but I wouldn't write off Price being a part of that mix. Assuming he develops, the guy has everything you look for in a starting receiver, inside OR outside. Other than Moss, he's their biggest AND fastest receiver, with good hands, good separation, and a great attitude.Personally, I give the long-term edge to Price over Tate. He just has more of a true "starter" look to him (vs. kick-returner/spot receiver).

Fellas,It's Edelman. Period. I have season tix to the Pats, and this guy lights up a field. Is two Wes Welkers a bad thing? really?

 

[captain_amazing]

Alright so here is my take...

I guess you could take this question in two different directions: which WR will see the field most after Moss and Welker, or which WR will line up in 3 receiver sets the most after Moss and Welker?

Either way, I think it is going to be Tate. I think Edelman is just unbelievable, but he is a slot receiver. Him & Welker will take turns as the slot guy, with Welker getting more reps later in the season. Even with just Welker on the field, you now have the option to use Hernadez as a slot TE.

The Pats know this too. They realize how good Edelman is, but know that if Welker comes back even close to his old self, that Edelman won't be able to get as many reps. So they trying to get him involved in other was: punt return and RB.

It was extremely apparent that the Pats desperately need a WR3 that can extend the field and be a deep threat. Tate CAN be that threat, the big thing is WILL he. They are going to give him all the chances in the world, and if he can stay healthy he may just be what the doctor ordered.

I think in both instances, Tate will see the field more than Edelman, and will line in 3 receiver sets the most after Moss and Welker. Even though I think Edelman is more talented, I think Tate is more important to their offense NOW (unless Welker can't get near to his old self again).

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I know I'm going to get bashed on this, but here goes...

Is it POSSIBLE that the NE scheme is helping their slot receivers to look a little better than they are? I just find it a little coincidental that two guys with similar builds/styles and virtually no pedigree both look so incredible playing the same position for the same team.

Did Belichick really catch lightning in a bottle twice? Or did he set up a scheme that absolutely maximizes the effectiveness of the slot receiver, whoever it happens to be. Or maybe it is a combination of the two (most likely IMO).

You know who else who looked pretty good as a slot receiver for the Pats? Reche Caldwell.

I'm just saying that I'm not sure we can judge with 100% effectiveness just how good a particular slot receiver on this team is. I'm wondering what would happen if Tate or Price were put in the slot and how good they would look compared to Welker/Edelman.

 

[bostonfred]

Edelman is a nice fill-in, but he isn't as good as Welker yet. We've seen Edelman look good on a few specific plays here and there. It's one thing to run a route well. It's another to run all the routes well. I agree with Yudkin that the WR3 probably won't be fantasy relevant. I agree with Holy Schneikes that the system - and Tom Brady - makes the slot receiver look really good.

My best guess is that Welker's catch totals are cut way down as he takes snaps off, and Edelman gets time in those packages. I'd guess something like a 70/40 split (10% of the time they're on the field together). I can't see Welker getting 7 catches a game every game again this year, so I think his catch totals drop into the 70-90 range, which makes him much more pedestrian.

 

[Nagle2998]

I know I'm going to get bashed on this, but here goes...Is it POSSIBLE that the NE scheme is helping their slot receivers to look a little better than they are? I just find it a little coincidental that two guys with similar builds/styles and virtually no pedigree both look so incredible playing the same position for the same team.Did Belichick really catch lightning in a bottle twice? Or did he set up a scheme that absolutely maximizes the effectiveness of the slot receiver, whoever it happens to be. Or maybe it is a combination of the two (most likely IMO).You know who else who looked pretty good as a slot receiver for the Pats? Reche Caldwell.I'm just saying that I'm not sure we can judge with 100% effectiveness just how good a particular slot receiver on this team is. I'm wondering what would happen if Tate or Price were put in the slot and how good they would look compared to Welker/Edelman.

Oh I think your right on but I think most of us feel that way about the Colts Wr also or atleast I do. The only Wr on the Pats that is really good is Moss and even he is helped some by playing with Brady. Now saying that it really doesn't matter because they are on the Pats and so is Brady so the number three who I think is Tate is going to have some value this year. Now next year IF Moss leaves Tate could be a huge pickup or it could be Price who knows.

 

[Faust]

Edelman creates a (good) problem

Excerpts:

When Welker returns, which slot receiver will be on the field? How about both?

Watching the electric Edelman, it was difficult not to wonder: Could the Patriots pair him and Welker together on the field, alongside Randy Moss?

That question was posed to ESPN colleague Tedy Bruschi and his response was straightforward: Why not?

"Julian Edelman can't be considered a replacement anymore. He has to be considered someone who can be a legitimate threat in this league after what he showed late last year and in this first preseason game," Bruschi said.

AND

Bruschi also envisioned how the Patriots could have bunch formations, with Moss, Welker and Edelman lining up in one area. Those formations can help receivers get away from double-teams, and if all three are in the same bunch, which pass-catchers do defenses double?

While Edelman has been called Welker's "mini-me" because of the similarities in their style of play, there are some differences, starting with their physical makeup. Edelman is 5-foot-10, 198 pounds, while Welker is 5-9, 185 pounds.

So Edelman is a bit sturdier, almost running back-like, which makes him more of a Wildcat-type option than Welker. That's another creative way the Patriots' coaching staff could have Moss, Welker and Edelman on the field at the same time, which would give defenses yet another set of headaches to manage.

"When a player is as productive as Edelman was, you start to look for different ways to get him the ball," Bruschi said.

Another aspect to consider is that even though Welker and Edelman are viewed by many as slot receivers -- best utilized in three-receiver sets from an inside position -- they are actually more than that.

Welker was a regular in standard two-receiver sets last season when he lined up opposite Moss, and in Thursday's preseason opener Edelman lined up as an outside receiver on 10 of his 22 snaps on the field.Thus, seeing a Moss/Welker/Edelman trio on the field is not only realistic, but a near-certainty once Welker returns.

A whole new world of offensive possibilities has opened up for the Patriots. The potential for dynamic fireworks is intriguing.

I was hoping that it would be Tate, but Mike Reiss seems to be suggesting that 3 WR sets are likely to be Moss/Welker/Edelman

 

[Cleat Spike]

Any intel on Edelman missing two straight days of practice yet? It's almost like you have to take Edelman and Tate as a late package deal if you want that potential big upside. Edelman as the PPR monster down low doing just about everything in the trenches and Tate as the potential deep threat Moss type with great YAC. One in-season injury to the Big2 and something's going to pop here. Seeing both Tate and Edelman in preseason you can kind of see them both fitting in nicely. This welker comeback story is still hard to comprehend, just amazing.

 

[zadok]

Tate. People don't realize he was #1 over Hakeem Nicks in college.

 

[Sabertooth]

Tate. People don't realize he was #1 over Hakeem Nicks in college.

[johnnycarsonvoice] I did not know that.[/johnnycarsonvoice]

 

[Cleat Spike]

And Dwayne Jarrett was #1 over Steve Smith at USC.

I think everyone realizes/knows that. Well at least the people that want to know and follow this situation. It doesn't make a difference really and that fact means nothing right now, except he's got some similar talent at the college level. It doesn't mean he's going to better Nicks' #s from last year or project out to his full season numbers.

 

[Pack43]

Tate. People don't realize he was #1 over Hakeem Nicks in college.

That's because he wasn't. You may want to re-check their college receiving production.

 

[zadok]

Tate. People don't realize he was #1 over Hakeem Nicks in college.

That's because he wasn't. You may want to re-check their college receiving production.

Injuries.

 

[Pack43]

Tate. People don't realize he was #1 over Hakeem Nicks in college.

That's because he wasn't. You may want to re-check their college receiving production.

Injuries.

Tate's explosive and was off to a great start his final year but still trailed Nicks in receptions, rec. yds, and rec. TDs prior to his injury.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Tate. People don't realize he was #1 over Hakeem Nicks in college.

That's because he wasn't. You may want to re-check their college receiving production.

Injuries.

Tate's explosive and was off to a great start his final year but still trailed Nicks in receptions, rec. yds, and rec. TDs prior to his injury.

As everyone knows, College doesn't translate to the pros one for one. Nicks may very well be a better WR when all is said and done, and he does have an extra year head start, but Tate was absolutely number one in NC, ahead of Nicks.But that doesn't make a difference in the Bigs.

 

[FDC]

UNC homer here

Nicks set 14 different WR records at UNC without even playing his senior year.

Tate never caught more than 4 catches a game. He was a KR/PR project that had 3 big receiving games his whole career against inferior college teams (McNeese, ECU, Rutgers) and besides that did nothing as a WR. He is a physical specimen with a ton of speed, but he is a project and has never shown any ability to beat NFL level CBs. Personally I liked Tate as a project but cringed when I saw NE draft him in the 3rd round. He has far too much risk for a 3rd round pick. Especially with the Hernandez/Gronk 3 TE sets we have seen in preseason, I would not look toward Tate unless Randy Moss goes down. I would look at Edelman as a Welker handcuff and thats about it.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Tate. People don't realize he was #1 over Hakeem Nicks in college.

That's because he wasn't. You may want to re-check their college receiving production.

Injuries.

That's a pretty brief explanation for the difference between a career of 181 receptions, 2,840 yards and 21 TDs vs. a career of 46 receptions, 927 yards and 8 TDs (in the same three years). And that's comparing a Freshman year, a Soph year and a Junior year for Nicks against the Sophmore, Junior and Senior years for Tate. As far as I know, Tate was healthy as a freshman, he just didn't catch any passes. Nicks had 660 yards as a Freshman.Tate only missed one game in 2007 for example and had 479 yards. Hicks, the "#2 guy", had 958 yards (as a Sophmore - Tate was a Junior).I'm not denying injuries mangled what could have been a nice college career for Tate. But implying he was a clear #1 over Nicks is misleading AT BEST.Plus, that was college. Tate's body style and Nicks' body style are completely different, with Nicks' obviously lending itself more to the NFL.I think this outrageous talent level folks seem to have in mind For Tate is a little over the top, personally. He's a really good returner with SOME upside as a receiver. He's not a #1 guy and probably never will be.

 

[David Yudkin]

He is a project and has never shown any ability to beat NFL level CBs.

So you concluded this from the 2 games he played and his 2 lifetime NFL targets as a rookie?

 

[FDC]

NEs 2nd to 4th round picks from 03-07

Eugene Wilson

Bethel Johnson

Dan Klecko

Asante Samuel

Marquise Hill

Guss Scott

Dexter Reid

Cedric Cobbs

Ellis Hobbs

Nick Kazcur

James Sanders

Chad Jackson

David Thomas

Garret Mills

Stephen Gostkowski

Kareem Brown

Despite NEs reputation, this is not impressive. And the WRs are obvious busts.

 

[FDC]

He is a project and has never shown any ability to beat NFL level CBs.

So you concluded this from the 2 games he played and his 2 lifetime NFL targets as a rookie?

That was my impression from watching him play in college.

 

[PatsFanCT]

NEs 2nd to 4th round picks from 03-07Eugene WilsonBethel JohnsonDan KleckoAsante SamuelMarquise HillGuss ScottDexter ReidCedric CobbsEllis HobbsNick KazcurJames SandersChad JacksonDavid ThomasGarret MillsStephen GostkowskiKareem BrownDespite NEs reputation, this is not impressive. And the WRs are obvious busts.

Well granted there were a lot of misses, but that's not really much different then every other NFL team. The Pats also drafted near the end of every one of those rounds. It's their ability to stockpile and trade draft picks to keep rotating depth until they find a keeper that keeps NE at the top of the league each year.You also forgot to add the 4th rounder for Randy Moss in your list.

 

[David Yudkin]

Clearly NE has swung and missed at receivers in recent years. But as for the other guys . . .

Eugene Wilson - Started 73 games and regular started for 7 years

Bethel Johnson - Bust

Dan Klecko - Played in 63 games, always on a playoff team, not great however

Asante Samuel - 3 time Pro Bowler

Marquise Hill - Died

Guss Scott - Did next to nothing

Dexter Reid - Did next to nothing

Cedric Cobbs - Did very little

Ellis Hobbs - Started 49 times and played in 71 games

Nick Kaczur - OL starter for 5 seasons

James Sanders - Started 41 games and played in 69

Chad Jackson - Bust

David Thomas - Had a decent year for NOS last year.

Garret Mills - Hasn't sone much for MIN

Stephen Gostkowski - Pro Bowl kicker

Kareem Brown - Did less than nothing

Picks were also traded for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, so those have to count as big hits. So I count Moss, Welker, Samuel as excellent ROI; Wilson, Sanders, Gostkowski, Kaczur, Hobbs as good investments, and 10 that didn't work out so well. That's alsmost 50/50, which IMO is probably close to league average.

 

[tombonneau]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but the person who will be the #3 target in NE is Aaron Hernandez. I know the OP wanted the WR3 for the NEP, but historically this position has been of little value and I don't expect that to change in 2010.

Based on everything coming out of TC and the preseason games, they are working him heavily into the offense. 50 catches or more is not out of the question, with plenty of RZ looks coming his way.

My opinion of Price v. Edelman vs. Tate, is that Edelman will have the most value of the three, by far. Especially in return leagues.

 

[omally]

UNC homer here

He was a KR/PR project that had 3 big receiving games his whole career against inferior college teams (McNeese, ECU, Rutgers) and besides that did nothing as a WR.

East Carolina beat UNC in that football game.

 

[Bolted]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but the person who will be the #3 target in NE is Aaron Hernandez. I know the OP wanted the WR3 for the NEP, but historically this position has been of little value and I don't expect that to change in 2010.Based on everything coming out of TC and the preseason games, they are working him heavily into the offense. 50 catches or more is not out of the question, with plenty of RZ looks coming his way.My opinion of Price v. Edelman vs. Tate, is that Edelman will have the most value of the three, by far. Especially in return leagues.

Totally agree.

 

[bostonfred]

UNC homer hereNicks set 14 different WR records at UNC without even playing his senior year.Tate never caught more than 4 catches a game. He was a KR/PR project that had 3 big receiving games his whole career against inferior college teams (McNeese, ECU, Rutgers) and besides that did nothing as a WR. He is a physical specimen with a ton of speed, but he is a project and has never shown any ability to beat NFL level CBs. Personally I liked Tate as a project but cringed when I saw NE draft him in the 3rd round. He has far too much risk for a 3rd round pick. Especially with the Hernandez/Gronk 3 TE sets we have seen in preseason, I would not look toward Tate unless Randy Moss goes down. I would look at Edelman as a Welker handcuff and thats about it.

Good info here. Thanks for posting it.

 

[tombonneau]

UNC homer here

Nicks set 14 different WR records at UNC without even playing his senior year.

Tate never caught more than 4 catches a game. He was a KR/PR project that had 3 big receiving games his whole career against inferior college teams (McNeese, ECU, Rutgers) and besides that did nothing as a WR. He is a physical specimen with a ton of speed, but he is a project and has never shown any ability to beat NFL level CBs. Personally I liked Tate as a project but cringed when I saw NE draft him in the 3rd round. He has far too much risk for a 3rd round pick. Especially with the Hernandez/Gronk 3 TE sets we have seen in preseason, I would not look toward Tate unless Randy Moss goes down. I would look at Edelman as a Welker handcuff and thats about it.

Good info here. Thanks for posting it.

I'm neither too hot or too cold on Tate, but I have to respectfully disagree with the bolded above. On almost literally his first play in the NFL, Tate beat two guys deep down field and Brady botched the throw. Obviously the kid has almost no sample size, but he showed on Day 1 he could beat NFL CBs. (Even if it was only one one play. ).

 

[Adebisi]

It depends on what you mean by #3. It'll be Moss and Welker, then a mix of the other guys, but I wouldn't write off Price being a part of that mix. Assuming he develops, the guy has everything you look for in a starting receiver, inside OR outside. Other than Moss, he's their biggest AND fastest receiver, with good hands, good separation, and a great attitude.

Personally, I give the long-term edge to Price over Tate. He just has more of a true "starter" look to him (vs. kick-returner/spot receiver).

Fellas,

It's Edelman. Period. I have season tix to the Pats, and this guy lights up a field. Is two Wes Welkers a bad thing? really?

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I've been to dozens of games at Gillette... you might catch a couple of things here or there that most people might miss watching from home, but in total, you're seeing far, far less at the stadium than everyone else is seeing from the comfort of their couches at home.

 

[Adebisi]

I know I'm going to get bashed on this, but here goes...

Is it POSSIBLE that the NE scheme is helping their slot receivers to look a little better than they are? I just find it a little coincidental that two guys with similar builds/styles and virtually no pedigree both look so incredible playing the same position for the same team.

Did Belichick really catch lightning in a bottle twice? Or did he set up a scheme that absolutely maximizes the effectiveness of the slot receiver, whoever it happens to be. Or maybe it is a combination of the two (most likely IMO).

You know who else who looked pretty good as a slot receiver for the Pats? Reche Caldwell.

I'm just saying that I'm not sure we can judge with 100% effectiveness just how good a particular slot receiver on this team is. I'm wondering what would happen if Tate or Price were put in the slot and how good they would look compared to Welker/Edelman.

Pretty flawed post.- I know people like to think that Edelman is of similar build to Welker, but he's really not. Welker is listed at 5'9, 185; Edelman is 6'0, 198. That makes Edelman roughly halfway between Welker and the 6'4 Randy Moss.

- Reche Caldwell did not play the slot for the Patriots

- Reche Caldwell did not look good for the Patriots

- A better comparison would have been to bring Deion Branch up; Branch saw plenty of time in the slot

- I don't know what you mean when you say that Welker has "no pedigree" but I suspect it has something to do with the color of his skin

- I think you are seriously underestimating how tough Wes Welker really is

- I think you are seriously underestimating how good Welker really is

- Obviously, any WR is going to look better with Tom Brady throwing him the ball than with virtually anyone else

 

[tombonneau]

It depends on what you mean by #3. It'll be Moss and Welker, then a mix of the other guys, but I wouldn't write off Price being a part of that mix. Assuming he develops, the guy has everything you look for in a starting receiver, inside OR outside. Other than Moss, he's their biggest AND fastest receiver, with good hands, good separation, and a great attitude.

Personally, I give the long-term edge to Price over Tate. He just has more of a true "starter" look to him (vs. kick-returner/spot receiver).

Fellas,

It's Edelman. Period. I have season tix to the Pats, and this guy lights up a field. Is two Wes Welkers a bad thing? really?

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I've been to dozens of games at Gillette... you might catch a couple of things here or there that most people might miss watching from home, but in total, you're seeing far, far less at the stadium than everyone else is seeing from the comfort of their couches at home.

This is half true. At live games you have the benefit of seeing the whole field on passing downs, and often times when I'm watching a game in person you can really scan the whole field and see when the QB fails to find a wide open guy. You don't really get that on TV unless it's egregious and they show it on a replay. The live shots in a game of a passing down generally are following the QB when he drops back and the following the ball to the intended receiver. Not sure how that qualifies as seeing more than someone at a stadium who can look at whatever they want.But obviously at home you have the benefit of watching replays over in detail, that most stadiums fail to adequately do on the big screen.

 

[Adebisi]

It depends on what you mean by #3. It'll be Moss and Welker, then a mix of the other guys, but I wouldn't write off Price being a part of that mix. Assuming he develops, the guy has everything you look for in a starting receiver, inside OR outside. Other than Moss, he's their biggest AND fastest receiver, with good hands, good separation, and a great attitude.

Personally, I give the long-term edge to Price over Tate. He just has more of a true "starter" look to him (vs. kick-returner/spot receiver).

Fellas,

It's Edelman. Period. I have season tix to the Pats, and this guy lights up a field. Is two Wes Welkers a bad thing? really?

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I've been to dozens of games at Gillette... you might catch a couple of things here or there that most people might miss watching from home, but in total, you're seeing far, far less at the stadium than everyone else is seeing from the comfort of their couches at home.

This is half true. At live games you have the benefit of seeing the whole field on passing downs, and often times when I'm watching a game in person you can really scan the whole field and see when the QB fails to find a wide open guy. You don't really get that on TV unless it's egregious and they show it on a replay. The live shots in a game of a passing down generally are following the QB when he drops back and the following the ball to the intended receiver. Not sure how that qualifies as seeing more than someone at a stadium who can look at whatever they want.But obviously at home you have the benefit of watching replays over in detail, that most stadiums fail to adequately do on the big screen.

On TV, you have the benefit of watching replays, seeing different angles, and seeing things closer and with better detail.At the stadium, you can look at whatever you want, but you're only going to see it once (unless it's something remarkable enough to be seen on the replay screen, in which case the people at home are also seeing it), you're only going to have one angle on it, and depending upon your seats, you may not even have a very good view of it. As I said, you will definitely catch some things that the people at home miss, but on the whole, I think you're seeing far, far more from home.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

I know I'm going to get bashed on this, but here goes...

Is it POSSIBLE that the NE scheme is helping their slot receivers to look a little better than they are? I just find it a little coincidental that two guys with similar builds/styles and virtually no pedigree both look so incredible playing the same position for the same team.

Did Belichick really catch lightning in a bottle twice? Or did he set up a scheme that absolutely maximizes the effectiveness of the slot receiver, whoever it happens to be. Or maybe it is a combination of the two (most likely IMO).

You know who else who looked pretty good as a slot receiver for the Pats? Reche Caldwell.

I'm just saying that I'm not sure we can judge with 100% effectiveness just how good a particular slot receiver on this team is. I'm wondering what would happen if Tate or Price were put in the slot and how good they would look compared to Welker/Edelman.

Pretty flawed post.- I know people like to think that Edelman is of similar build to Welker, but he's really not. Welker is listed at 5'9, 185; Edelman is 6'0, 198. That makes Edelman roughly halfway between Welker and the 6'4 Randy Moss.

- Reche Caldwell did not play the slot for the Patriots

- Reche Caldwell did not look good for the Patriots

- A better comparison would have been to bring Deion Branch up; Branch saw plenty of time in the slot

- I don't know what you mean when you say that Welker has "no pedigree" but I suspect it has something to do with the color of his skin

- I think you are seriously underestimating how tough Wes Welker really is

- I think you are seriously underestimating how good Welker really is

- Obviously, any WR is going to look better with Tom Brady throwing him the ball than with virtually anyone else

- Most places list Edelman at 5'11 though some do list 6'. Sorry, that's not half way between Moss and Welker - that's a prototypical slot receiver. He's slightly taller than Welker, but the build is actually VERY similar. Both are fairly "thick" and very quick.- Reche was probably moved around, but I'm almost certain he was in the slot at times. Was he great? No, but he had his best year as a Patriot (by far)

- No, a pedigree is a pedigree - has nothing to do with race. He was completely undrafted after running a 4.65 40 at 5'9", not extensively used (at receiver) by his former team, and then traded away cheaply. If that doesn't describe "no pedigree" I don't know what does. That's not to say a receiver can't be great WITHOUT a pedigree, many of them have.

- I never made any claim about his toughness. He seems ridiculously tough to me. No argument there.

- Maybe so, but that's the whole question isn't it? There is no doubt he is excellent at what he does. What I wonder is how many other guys (like Edelman) might also perform very well.

 

[zadok]

Tate. People don't realize he was #1 over Hakeem Nicks in college.

That's because he wasn't. You may want to re-check their college receiving production.

Injuries.

Tate's explosive and was off to a great start his final year but still trailed Nicks in receptions, rec. yds, and rec. TDs prior to his injury.

As everyone knows, College doesn't translate to the pros one for one. Nicks may very well be a better WR when all is said and done, and he does have an extra year head start, but Tate was absolutely number one in NC, ahead of Nicks.But that doesn't make a difference in the Bigs.

That is what I, clumsily, was trying to say...I failed I know...Was just trying to say it is clear to me that Tate is the 3rd WR on the Pats. He is far more complete than Edleman, IMHO.