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people who own lots of toys... how? (1 Viewer)

Not anymore, not even close.  Most weeks now I’m probably more like 20.

But in my first 10 years?  Probably took less than 4 weeks of vacation total and 100 hours was pretty normal.
That's legitimately insane.  Even assuming you only were able to bill 85 of those 100 weekly hours, that's over 4,200 billable hours per year.  I pushed 2,600 billable hours one year and it almost killed me. 

 
On the other I see a lot of people buy boats and stuff later in life when they don't have the physicality to use and benefit from them anymore and basically their kids are the only winners, which is fine also.

You can't just all of a sudden take up waterskiing and wakeboarding in your late 40s to early 50's without some real physical consequences.
:bag:

 
That's legitimately insane.  Even assuming you only were able to bill 85 of those 100 weekly hours, that's over 4,200 billable hours per year.  I pushed 2,600 billable hours one year and it almost killed me. 
Yeah that's nuts. I just hit my one year anniversary here at my new firm and worked harder than anybody else (had promise of review for partnership after one year and wanted to hit it) and hit like 2,200. I can probably do this for another few years but can't imagine doing it for much longer than that. I work basically 7-7 each day and a few hours on the weekend. No clue how I could manage 100 hours/week on the regular (I've probably hit 100/week a few times when I had murder/rape trials). I barely see my family as it is and I don't physically look the same as I did ten years ago. 

 
Yeah that's nuts. I just hit my one year anniversary here at my new firm and worked harder than anybody else (had promise of review for partnership after one year and wanted to hit it) and hit like 2,200. I can probably do this for another few years but can't imagine doing it for much longer than that. I work basically 7-7 each day and a few hours on the weekend. No clue how I could manage 100 hours/week on the regular (I've probably hit 100/week a few times when I had murder/rape trials). I barely see my family as it is and I don't physically look the same as I did ten years ago. 
Yeah, it wasn’t ideal.  I traveled a lot and did a lot of trial work.  Worked nearly every weekend. In the end, I was lied to and got screwed out of the promised partnership and inheriting the firm.  

Have a 40%+ interest in my firm now, work when I want and mostly from home, take lots of vacations and should be good to retire in 5-8 years. 1-2 trials a year now.

I spend quite a bit of time on my boat.  People complaining about owning a boat seem to be doing something wrong.  I will own a boat of some kind until I cant operate one.   Even then I’d probably keep one in a slip just to get on the water and have a place to relax.
 

 
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Yeah, it wasn’t ideal.  I traveled a lot and did a lot of trial work.  Worked nearly every weekend. In the end, I was lied to and got screwed out of the promised partnership and inheriting the firm.  

Have a 40%+ interest in my firm now, work when I want and mostly from home, take lots of vacations and should be good to retire in 5-8 years. 1-2 trials a year now.
 
I've often wondered about this. It would seem, once you've established the practice and have the experience, that you could become a part time attorney fairly easily.

I've considered going into estate and financial planning, get things going for ten years or so, then go draw things down, maybe write books or articles (maybe a podcast), and travel a lot. Otoh, could do similar with labor law, but honestly I'm not loving the field.  But like most 40yo's, I'm in a somewhat comfortable place and not sure I want to stir #### up right now. :shrug:

 
That's legitimately insane.  Even assuming you only were able to bill 85 of those 100 weekly hours, that's over 4,200 billable hours per year.  I pushed 2,600 billable hours one year and it almost killed me. 
Yeah that's nuts. I just hit my one year anniversary here at my new firm and worked harder than anybody else (had promise of review for partnership after one year and wanted to hit it) and hit like 2,200. I can probably do this for another few years but can't imagine doing it for much longer than that. I work basically 7-7 each day and a few hours on the weekend. No clue how I could manage 100 hours/week on the regular (I've probably hit 100/week a few times when I had murder/rape trials). I barely see my family as it is and I don't physically look the same as I did ten years ago.
Not an attorney (restaurant/Food and Bev biz) but my average for my 20’s and 30’s is likely around the 80 a week mark.  Had more 100+ hr weeks the I could count.  Now in my mid 40’s I still work 60+ but physically it’s much much harder, my knees have taken the brunt of the abuse.   No way I could do the 80’s+ anymore. 

 
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I spend quite a bit of time on my boat.  People complaining about owning a boat seem to be doing something wrong.  I will own a boat of some kind until I cant operate one.   Even then I’d probably keep one in a slip just to get on the water and have a place to relax.
Not a lot of lake front property in SA. You are going to have to drive a bit to put it in anywhere nice. I imagine people with kids and  weekend obligations can't be towing that thing all over every weekend. So I imagine there is a lot of location-dependent factors to be accounted for.

 
I've often wondered about this. It would seem, once you've established the practice and have the experience, that you could become a part time attorney fairly easily.

I've considered going into estate and financial planning, get things going for ten years or so, then go draw things down, maybe write books or articles (maybe a podcast), and travel a lot. Otoh, could do similar with labor law, but honestly I'm not loving the field.  But like most 40yo's, I'm in a somewhat comfortable place and not sure I want to stir #### up right now. :shrug:
Well, even as a partner one likely has a fee sharing agreement so there is still an incentive to work quite a bit if you and your family rely on a certain income. 

 
There are many scientific studies that show "stuff" makes you happy for a few MONTHS. Memories on the other hand, like a trip to a foreign country,. can keep you happy for years. So when we spend, we spend it on making memories (Ireland, Italy, etc.), not worrying about trying to keep up with the neighbors.
This has always been my thought.  I don’t care much about things but enjoy relaxing and spending time with the people I love.  But I make a good living and save and spend a lot.  I want to balance enjoying the here and now while also planning for retirement.  I’d rather vacation and do things now and not do early retirement - if I were single and/or no kids I may feel differently.

I echo Oz’s comment - everybody should learn to be content and let others live their lives.

 
Owning a boat (at least for me) has nothing whatsoever to do with craving material possessions/wealth/status.  It is entirely 100% because we love boating and watersports.  I would think that is the same thing for most boat owners.  It lives at the lake and is never at my house, so the neighbors have no earthly idea that I even own it.  It has literally never been to my house. Just like for those who go on elaborate vacations, I think most go for the experience and the memories, not because they want to show off their extravagant vacation pictures on social media to their friends.

p.s.  My grandfather was Buddhist (lived on Oahu and the Big Island).
I'm not anti-boat per se; if it adds joy to your life and you can afford it, buy a boat. The OP was a lot more generalized in his feeling of not doing things "right" because he didn't have "toyS" comparable to his neighbors.

I don't understand why one would get caught up in such comparisons, as they will never promote happiness. Moreover, I don't think piling up a bunch of recreational vehicles is a recipe to a fulfilled life.

 
Thread definitely comes across as anti-boat.  I love going out but would never want to own one.  Not because they aren’t fun but it seems like too much of a PITA to deal with and upkeep.  Maybe if I had a lake house or if I wasn’t lazy.

 
You can't just all of a sudden take up waterskiing and wakeboarding in your late 40s to early 50's without some real physical consequences.
Not all of the sudden, but I'm sure it can be done.

My wife learned to snow ski after age 40. Seven years later she is a solid intermediate skier and will occasionally venture onto advanced runs. She loves it and has never been injured.

I started rock climbing at age 40, and am still doing well pushing 50. I've tweaked my elbows and shoulders, but nothing serious.

While we would have had more years of enjoyment had we started earlier (I wish I had), it doesn't detract from our current experience.  As long as you haven't ignored your health and are realistic about physical limitations, most activities are possible well into middle age. 

 
Thread definitely comes across as anti-boat.  I love going out but would never want to own one.  Not because they aren’t fun but it seems like too much of a PITA to deal with and upkeep.  Maybe if I had a lake house or if I wasn’t lazy.
I'd like to hear more from the pro-boat crowd. I've always though they were pretty meh, but I don't fish or water ski. What else is enjoyable about boating?

 
I'm not anti-boat per se; if it adds joy to your life and you can afford it, buy a boat. The OP was a lot more generalized in his feeling of not doing things "right" because he didn't have "toyS" comparable to his neighbors.

I don't understand why one would get caught up in such comparisons, as they will never promote happiness. Moreover, I don't think piling up a bunch of recreational vehicles is a recipe to a fulfilled life.
it's not that i want those things. more i want to understand what financial decisions people made/are making to help them afford those things on top of the every day expenses of life.

is there some investment secret i missed out on? 

are these things more affordable than i imagined?

if i had the money to afford a boat, or an RV,  i'd have already either socked it away or spent it on home improvements because we're gonna be here forever.

 
I'd like to hear more from the pro-boat crowd. I've always though they were pretty meh, but I don't fish or water ski. What else is enjoyable about boating?
For me, it’s mostly water sports with family and friends. Tubing, wakeboarding, kneeboarding, wakeskating. Listening to music with the wind in your hair and then stopping in the middle of the lake with everyone jumping into the water to cool off. I’ve also used my boat for fishing but it’s probably 25-1 used for water sports and fun over fishing. 

And yes, it was admittedly a pain when I had to launch my boat every time I wanted to use it. Once we built a boathouse (which was a decent size expense), it got a whole lot easier. I can be out on the lake within five minutes after pulling up. 

 
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And yes, it was admittedly a pain when I had to launch my boat every time I wanted to use it. Once we built a boathouse (which was a decent size expense), it got a whole lot easier. I can be out on the lake within five minutes after pulling up. 
Where is your boat? I'm thinking I might buy in to this "Don't be the guy that owns a boat, be the guy who has a friend that has a boat" thing...

 
@mr. furley

Awesome thread idea/title, totally agree and I haven't even read past the first few posts but will enjoy this one. You always to seem to find ideas and get things hashed out that lots of folks are thinking but just are either afraid to say it or just hadn't quite thought log enough about it. We all have someone like this or a few like this in our neighborhoods. I like to spend my money on nice things but typically they are practical and something I use a lot....example we bought new floor speakers with the gov't checks sent out, no apologies. 

We could drive fancier cars, we could live in one of the many SFR instead of our condo(it's really nice though-we're redecorating), we actually enjoy painting together, we like walks on the beach when they're open, we like to just lounge around our place instead of going out somewhere, we like to invest our money, it's not sexie talk in most circles we find. We want to maybe retire sooner or start a new journey sooner rather than later...we like to spend money on travel and again no apologies but we also don't do it over the top either. 

 
without getting in to the financials here, how do some of you afford the extras?

wife and i do OK. we live in a nice suburb. nice house. we both drive cars. we save money. we take one vacation per year. we're certainly not suffering (for now).

then i look at families who i know to be roughly in the same position (seemingly) and they have a cabin, a boat, 2 sea-doos, his & her ATV's, plus one each for the kids... who also have their own motorbikes... kayaks... and snowmobiles, an RV, a pop-up camper.. they just dumped 30k in to a kitchen remodel, and 15k for a new roof, then they're re-doing the driveway once they come back from Mexico for vacation.

what in the ever living #### am i doing wrong? 

are you people leveraged up to your nipples? did your parents buy your first house? did you win the lottery? muling yayo for the cartel?

talk to me because i want to be like you
Maybe I am just lucky, but I don't see how it is that difficult if you make a decent living. You just have to know how to manage money. 

My family is very middle class, but we easily afford these things. 

I am not going to post all the details here, but if you want to know details feel free to pm me. 

 
My circle of friends includes a guy whose entire life revolves around various "adult toys." He seems to have at least one of everything – motorcycles, ATVs, boats, jetskis, even a custom golf cart. He makes decent money, but not significantly more than the rest of us. So how does he afford it? The answer:

1. no kids.

2. no alcohol or drugs. His addiction is adrenaline.

3. no 401K. He wants to have fun now. He has no intention of having a comfortable retirement, or even a retirement. I don't think he expects to live much past 60.
-We(Mrs) have discussed this, life doesn't get any easier as you get older. The time to see the National Parks or Timbuktu or wherever is now while we can still walk and use the bathroom relatively easily.  I plan on living a very active lifestyle from here on out but a lot of folks slow way down over their 50s and into their 60s...no everyone is living healthy into their 90s. And even some that live to 80, those last 10-20 can be excruciating if they go slowly with ailment after ailment piling up. 

Univ of Miami...5% salary 401k/403b, you put in 5, they add another 5...so 15% and only 5 of it is actually coming out of your pocket and you want to know how many people were actually doing it? Maybe 1/3 if that. 

 
I was just thinking, this whole thread would have been a lot more interesting six months ago. Right now, I wouldn't remotely entertain the idea of buying "stuff" with the state in the grips of a massive outbreak. Definitely not the time for me to be out shopping for a camper or boat or whatever. And camping grounds are largely closed/sold out right now. And I surely am not traveling oversea, not that anyone will have us right now anyways.

 
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I know couple guys that expense some very nice toys through their small businesses. Just need the right accountant I guess.

 
Not all of the sudden, but I'm sure it can be done.

My wife learned to snow ski after age 40. Seven years later she is a solid intermediate skier and will occasionally venture onto advanced runs. She loves it and has never been injured.

I started rock climbing at age 40, and am still doing well pushing 50. I've tweaked my elbows and shoulders, but nothing serious.

While we would have had more years of enjoyment had we started earlier (I wish I had), it doesn't detract from our current experience.  As long as you haven't ignored your health and are realistic about physical limitations, most activities are possible well into middle age. 
You ever slalom skiied or wakeboarded?   It's absolutely brutal to the body unless you are thin and light or in wonderful shape.   It's much more physically taxing than snow skiing. I'm competent in both.

 
You ever slalom skiied or wakeboarded?   It's absolutely brutal to the body unless you are thin and light or in wonderful shape.   It's much more physically taxing than snow skiing. I'm competent in both.
I don't like the water, so I have no direct experience with either activity you mention. I ski moguls a bit, and expect it's similar. But I am a healthy weight in decent shape. 

 
-We(Mrs) have discussed this, life doesn't get any easier as you get older. The time to see the National Parks or Timbuktu or wherever is now while we can still walk and use the bathroom relatively easily.  I plan on living a very active lifestyle from here on out but a lot of folks slow way down over their 50s and into their 60s...no everyone is living healthy into their 90s. And even some that live to 80, those last 10-20 can be excruciating if they go slowly with ailment after ailment piling up. 
Even though I think nearly all the "toys" are unnecessary, I'm totally on board with the idea of traveling/experiencing new things while younger. I never understood people busting their a$$es for the promise of an early retirement while sacrificing the ability to enjoy it while more able-bodied. 

And you're right about suffering at the end of life, but if you practice healthy habits that period can be reduced from years-decades to months.

 
You ever slalom skiied or wakeboarded?   It's absolutely brutal to the body unless you are thin and light or in wonderful shape.   It's much more physically taxing than snow skiing. I'm competent in both.
Now into his fifth summer on the lake, my teenage son is a stellar wakeboarder. Me, not so much. Definitely too taxing on this old man’s body. But I do kneeboard. Much more my speed. 

 
Passed a guy driving a new Tesla today and saw it was my neighbor.  He is a hairdresser.  So is his wife.  They have two kids in college.  SMH.

 
If you practice unhealthy habits you could probably accomplish the same thing!
Not really. This study looked at end of life disability for those with/without healthy lifestyles.  Not only did the healthy people live longer, they suffered less. For 70 year old men in the study, unhealthy habits shortened lifespan nearly 5 years and increased disability about two years.

Many people gladly volunteer their late life quality for bad habits when younger. The problem is, it’s too late to change your mind when chronic disease and debility set in.

 
Not really. This study looked at end of life disability for those with/without healthy lifestyles.  Not only did the healthy people live longer, they suffered less. For 70 year old men in the study, unhealthy habits shortened lifespan nearly 5 years and increased disability about two years.

Many people gladly volunteer their late life quality for bad habits when younger. The problem is, it’s too late to change your mind when chronic disease and debility set in.
Was mainly making a joke about dying faster reducing the end of life period, maybe it worked better in my head. 

 
Was mainly making a joke about dying faster reducing the end of life period, maybe it worked better in my head. 
I got it. And too off topic for this thread, but suffice it to say I believe that line of thinking is misguided.

 
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Passed a guy driving a new Tesla today and saw it was my neighbor.  He is a hairdresser.  So is his wife.  They have two kids in college.  SMH.
And that’s what stops my ridiculous purchases. Have a 4, 2 and 1 year old. College will be a killer. Struggle balancing experiences/things while younger with paying for school.

For example, putting in a pool. Could be a great memory/family time, but that 50-75k nut might be 2 of the 12 years on the horizon.

 
So many people that don’t own boats saying things like this in this thread.  Makes you sound broke, jealous or both.   
Jupiter Inlet area, we just rent or charter a boat a couple times a year, always do a big fishing weekend, we have friends with boats and sometimes we accept the invites...but behind closed doors we think they are a pretty big waste of money but totally understand the passion that many have for them. 

Native Floridian, totally get the lifestyle but boats and RVs are another, the cost is immense IMO. 

But we buy Art, that's probably one thing we buy that other people might not see the value in. 

 
Not really. This study looked at end of life disability for those with/without healthy lifestyles.  Not only did the healthy people live longer, they suffered less. For 70 year old men in the study, unhealthy habits shortened lifespan nearly 5 years and increased disability about two years.

Many people gladly volunteer their late life quality for bad habits when younger. The problem is, it’s too late to change your mind when chronic disease and debility set in.
The NYT did a piece where Tennis was rated as the highest ranked sport to increase longevity. I think all sports or physical activity help. 

I spend money on Tennis...at least $100 a month with Court fees, shoes/shirts, yellow balls, a racket or two per year, it adds up. 

 
No decent public courts?
The city of Palm Beach Gardens runs a 20 Court Tennis Center all clay courts, Williams sisters train there. Membership for the year is less than $750 but I'm a bum and I typically am someone's guest and I just pay an $8 court fee when I'm not someone's.guest. Hard courts are free but they are not as easy on my knees. 

 
it's not that i want those things. more i want to understand what financial decisions people made/are making to help them afford those things on top of the every day expenses of life.

is there some investment secret i missed out on? 

are these things more affordable than i imagined?

if i had the money to afford a boat, or an RV,  i'd have already either socked it away or spent it on home improvements because we're gonna be here forever.
What projects are you wanting to do? Maybe you should go ahead and start them, now's a great time to get a little loan from the bank at these rates. And it will ad value to your home even though you never pan on selling it. 

We are re-doing the inside of our place, we thought about hiring folks but we have started doing it ourselves and see how far we can go. Right now it's just simple painting and some light kitchen work, we built a nook like you might see at a BnB when you are on the road. We painted the kitchen banana yellow, it looks insane. 

 
The city of Palm Beach Gardens runs a 20 Court Tennis Center all clay courts, Williams sisters train there. Membership for the year is less than $750 but I'm a bum and I typically am someone's guest and I just pay an $8 court fee when I'm not someone's.guest. Hard courts are free but they are not as easy on my knees. 
I've never played on clay, but always wanted to. But tennis is a good sport for sure.

Here I play on public courts (free), used the same racket for over decade until my wife bought me a new one this year (~$200). Wear regular clothes and shoes. So don't spend that much in total. Skiing is a different story...

 
People make their choices because it's what they want. 

There's varying degrees of rational thought that go into making choices. Hence why you see people living in a small, cheap apt driving around a Benz. To me, that's not rational. To that person, it's what they wanted, and that overtook rational thought. Which isn't common in my opinion. 99% of people living in a small, cheap apt don't drive a Benz. It's the exception. Not the rule. 

At the end of the day, however, any choice has benefits and consequences. Maybe the person driving around the Benz living in a small apt could afford a larger apt in a nicer area if he didn't buy that car. It's zero sum. If I buy X, I might not be able to buy Y. This is magnified with the less money you have and the more responsibilities you have.

I'm sure many in this thread could buy these toys they talk about. But it would come with a cost. A cost that they may not be willing to endure for a variety of reasons. 

It's selfless to not buy toys because you know it would either jeopardize you putting your kids through college or jeopardize you and your wife's retirement. In essence, you're saying, "My responsibility to my family trumps my desires." Sacrifice is a great thing. Gives you a "why" to whatever it is you're doing (or not doing). 

Actually, what you're really saying is, "If I can put my kids through college and they don't have debt coming out of school, they could have it easier than I did." That line of thinking comes from a desire to see your kids have a better life than you did. Selfless. 

Or you could say, "If I buy some toys and enjoy times with my kids with these toys/experiences, it would create long lasting memories. I may be able to help them in school somewhat, but they'd have to take on some debt." 

Both mentalities are fine. Neither are wrong. Different perspectives. Different doesn't mean wrong. Need to remind yourself of your why. I think it's only a problem when you rationalize irrationality. 

-My 2 cents for whatever it's worth

 
That's legitimately insane.  Even assuming you only were able to bill 85 of those 100 weekly hours, that's over 4,200 billable hours per year.  I pushed 2,600 billable hours one year and it almost killed me. 
Yeah, the 3k+ billable hours folks are nutty. I also did 2600 one year. It actually wasnt awful because I was young and single and enjoying the work, so the time passed quickly. But I see mothers of multiple kids doing 3k+ and that stuns me. No way to live. 
 

That said, lately my crutch is the non billable and management stuff.  Every day I wake up with grand plans to finish that brief I have to write, and end up spending 6 hours on nonsense before I can turn to it. Annoying. 

 
Well, even as a partner one likely has a fee sharing agreement so there is still an incentive to work quite a bit if you and your family rely on a certain income
Going part time assumes you don't need as large an income. 

 
Yeah, the 3k+ billable hours folks are nutty. I also did 2600 one year. It actually wasnt awful because I was young and single and enjoying the work, so the time passed quickly. But I see mothers of multiple kids doing 3k+ and that stuns me. No way to live. 
 

That said, lately my crutch is the non billable and management stuff.  Every day I wake up with grand plans to finish that brief I have to write, and end up spending 6 hours on nonsense before I can turn to it. Annoying. 
Sounds like just about every job. Although we get paid (not as much as you) no matter what we're working on.

 
To the op's question.

There is also the option of making financial sacrifices when you're young (20s-30s).  Living below your means for 10-15 years.  Live/become debt free by 40.  Have a good nest egg started.  Then you have the disposable income to do as you please.

 
it's not that i want those things. more i want to understand what financial decisions people made/are making to help them afford those things on top of the every day expenses of life.

is there some investment secret i missed out on? 

are these things more affordable than i imagined?

if i had the money to afford a boat, or an RV,  i'd have already either socked it away or spent it on home improvements because we're gonna be here forever.


I agree that in most cases it's likely debt spending.  All these things can be financed.  

But I've also been surprised by the number of people I've met who had some sort of financial windfall - be it inheritance, injury settlement, sold a business, stocks, real estate.  The most frequent is inheritance.  For example, I have a brother in law who is slated to inherit something like a million dollars and when that happens he'll be buying a boat and a place on a lake. He's a windows installer.  You just never know. 

 
Not all of the sudden, but I'm sure it can be done.

My wife learned to snow ski after age 40. Seven years later she is a solid intermediate skier and will occasionally venture onto advanced runs. She loves it and has never been injured.

I started rock climbing at age 40, and am still doing well pushing 50. I've tweaked my elbows and shoulders, but nothing serious.

While we would have had more years of enjoyment had we started earlier (I wish I had), it doesn't detract from our current experience.  As long as you haven't ignored your health and are realistic about physical limitations, most activities are possible well into middle age. 
:yes:

I don't know if dentist meant for it to come off this way, but I detest the notion that you can't be active in your 40s or 50s. 

We recover slower than in our 20s, and there's more risk with some activities. I'll always remember my two colleagues who went back to jumping out of airplanes in their mid 40s after a decade hiatus and got injured (one pretty badly, the other less so). But young guys get injured doing that too, and I suspect most of us aren't trying to jump out of airplanes with over 75 lbs of gear. 

Yeah, you'll feel sore doing some activities. But it's so worth it.

 

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