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Peyton Hillis or Jerome Harrison who is the guy? (1 Viewer)

A

af592

Footballguy
I think many were shocked (as was I) that Hillis did so well. From what I remember Hillis was always the FB in Denver. I also thought that Jerome was the man, but didnt look like it as the game went on. If Hillis wouldnt have coughed it up would Harrison even got on the field?? Any Cleveland homers out there want to chime in to clear the air??

 
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Quick answer: Mangini is an idiot. How he could bench Harrison after JH saved his job at the end of last year is unbelievable.

Mangini is a Belichek wannabe and does nothing to tip his hand on who is going to play any amount. Harrison SHOULD be playing more, and if he doesn't get more carries against the team that he almost set the NFL rushing record against last year, then Mangini should be fired.

 
You are probably going to see more of Harrison when they play a big slow front and more of Hillis when the play a small fast front. It is a true RBBC and having to start the Browns' RB will be frustrating all season.

 
Hillis is definitely a bull. A mini Mike Alstott, right down to his #40. But the two fumbles can't help his case.

The last one basically cost them the win.

 
Hillis is definitely a bull. A mini Mike Alstott, right down to his #40. But the two fumbles can't help his case.The last one basically cost them the win.
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A win that harrison earned them after he broke off a long run to within the 5. When Harrison gets 20 touches, the team wins. End of story. Eventually someone who hinges their job on wins will understand that. I do, and i don't do this for a living, and im not even all that bright.
 
It's a crapshoot, but it'll probably be another 1-2 weeks before we know who has more value.

I have Hillis, but can't imagine ever starting him unless he gets the job outright & it's at least a 60/40 split. Even then, he'd be a bye week or injury filler.

 
Winky the tunnel ferret said:
Don't bother unless you're in a huge league and/or have massive rosters.
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I was frustrated by this all last year and I can't figure out the grudge Mangini seems to have against JH.However, I can't disagree more that it's not worth it. In games where JH got the bulk of the work last year, he was quite productive.
 
We can discuss how nice Harrison looks and his home run capability but the fact is that Hillis took the field as the starter. I am really starting to think Mangini is one of the dumbest coaches in the league. Hillis looked good and is a Mike Alstott clone. He even wears the same number 40 so I imagine Hillis emulates himself after the guy. He is not a 20 carry type back and should be used mostly when they get in the red zone and on plays where they are in short yardage like 2nd and 3, 3rd and 1…not that he can't break off a run but that is what he is built for plain and simple. Harrison is the home run threat and he needs to be involved in the offense but at times the Browns went away from him and he had perhaps 3 carries midway thru the 2nd quarter, that's not going to get it done. Avoid them both for now until one of them can be consistent. If Hillis had not fumbled twice I think he would have established himself as the primary back

 
Although Harrison isn't as talented as Charles Eric Mangini and Todd Haley call each other up each week to talk about the disdain they have for the most talented members of their backfields while farting into wine glasses and sniffing them over and over.

 
af592 said:
I think many were shocked (as was I) that Hillis did so well. From what I remember Hillis was always the FB in Denver. I also thought that Jerome was the man, but didnt look like it as the game went on. If Hillis wouldnt have coughed it up would Harrison even got on the field?? Any Cleveland homers out there want to chime in to clear the air??
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There are a lot of threads on the topic with more detailed analysis. The Cleveland vs Tampa Bay thread is one.The short answer is... it looks like an RBBC. Fantasy owners hate Hillis because they had visions of scooping Harrison in the 8th round, and watching him romp for 150+ yards a week. Cleveland fans generally like both backs, because they bring different things to the table.Harrison is a speed back who doesn't break tackles or move the pile. He can turn good plays into a great ones, but rarely turns bad plays into good ones. Hillis is a back that will get you tough yardage and is the superior blocker, but he isn't a big-play threat.Trying to guess who will get more touches week to week will probably be an exercise in frustration. Mangini is the coach that thought it was high strategy to make opponents guess whether Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson was going to get the start last year. (Answer: they're both bad, opponents don't care)
 
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Can I say one (most likely unpopular) thing about Mangini? Chances are he didn't get to where he is by being a complete moron.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that he knows more about his football team than any of us who are typing on a message board. He is with these guys day in and day out. He knows their strengths and weaknesses inside-out. If he thinks RBBC is the right move, it probably is.

:shrug:

The exception to the above rule is anyone who has coached the Oakland Raiders since 2002.

 
Raider Nation said:
I'm going to go ahead and assume that he knows more about his football team than any of us who are typing on a message board. He is with these guys day in and day out. He knows their strengths and weaknesses inside-out. If he thinks RBBC is the right move, it probably is.
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This is a good post.The funny thing is that people like to think they're unbiased... but how often do see a Shark Pool post that says "Coach X is an idiot... he should be using all 3 of his RBs situationally, instead of trying to force feed this one guy". Yet RBBC is clearly the trend in the NFL, where their motivation is to win games, not accumulate stats.
 
RebelINS said:
Although Harrison isn't as talented as Charles Eric Mangini and Todd Haley call each other up each week to talk about the disdain they have for the most talented members of their backfields while farting into wine glasses and sniffing them over and over.
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:shrug:
 
Otis said:
Hillis is definitely a bull. A mini Mike Alstott, right down to his #40. But the two fumbles can't help his case.The last one basically cost them the win.
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A win that harrison earned them after he broke off a long run to within the 5. When Harrison gets 20 touches, the team wins. End of story. Eventually someone who hinges their job on wins will understand that. I do, and i don't do this for a living, and im not even all that bright.
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Both very :shrug:
 
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Porkchop said:
Raider Nation said:
I'm going to go ahead and assume that he knows more about his football team than any of us who are typing on a message board. He is with these guys day in and day out. He knows their strengths and weaknesses inside-out. If he thinks RBBC is the right move, it probably is.
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This is a good post.The funny thing is that people like to think they're unbiased... but how often do see a Shark Pool post that says "Coach X is an idiot... he should be using all 3 of his RBs situationally, instead of trying to force feed this one guy". Yet RBBC is clearly the trend in the NFL, where their motivation is to win games, not accumulate stats.
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it sucks to admit it but that's the gig, but they should still give it to Harrison and Greene damnit i got money relying on it lol
 
RebelINS said:
Although Harrison isn't as talented as Charles Eric Mangini and Todd Haley call each other up each week to talk about the disdain they have for the most talented members of their backfields while farting into wine glasses and sniffing them over and over.
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:lol: Wow you have a good imagination but it's probably accurate.Seriously, I am amazed that after the last 4 games last season that Mangini started Hillis. I would not try to predict ANYTHING about this backfield. To the poster who said that Mangini thought it was a good idea to make teams prepare for both Anderson and Quinn, that is right on. Mangini will do all sorts of nonsense to maintain his 'competitive advantage', and that includes having Harrison fetch him hotdogs during the game.I pay very close attention to the Browns, and this is going to be a mess probably until we lose enough games and Mangini looks to Harrison to try to save his job again.There has got to be some stuff going on with Harrison that we as fans don't know about... I mean the guy has a career 4.9 YPC and barely saw the field for both Romeo and Mangini until the end of last season. Then we draft Hardesty. And before anyone mentions it, Harrison is actually a pretty decent blocker.
 
Porkchop said:
Raider Nation said:
I'm going to go ahead and assume that he knows more about his football team than any of us who are typing on a message board. He is with these guys day in and day out. He knows their strengths and weaknesses inside-out. If he thinks RBBC is the right move, it probably is.
Click to expand...
This is a good post.The funny thing is that people like to think they're unbiased... but how often do see a Shark Pool post that says "Coach X is an idiot... he should be using all 3 of his RBs situationally, instead of trying to force feed this one guy". Yet RBBC is clearly the trend in the NFL, where their motivation is to win games, not accumulate stats.
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I am not so sure about that.I am from New Orleans and down here we know bad pro football.Have I ever seen coaches make decisions in-game and season-long that lose games when the fans knew better? Yes.I have seen coaches make decisions that lose games, where coaches go with the wrong players, make the wrong play calling, even when the fans howl for changes in direction, and it ends up costing them their jobs.Happens all the time. Heck it happened for most of the history of the New Orleans Saints franchise.
 
should be used mostly when they get in the red zone and on plays where they are in short yardage like 2nd and 3, 3rd and 1
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Can you please give some other examples of short yardage? Trying to pass my Hawk Test.
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:shrug:Who was at poster who used to explain in parens all of the basic elements of his poker posts?
 
af592 said:
I think many were shocked (as was I) that Hillis did so well. From what I remember Hillis was always the FB in Denver. I also thought that Jerome was the man, but didnt look like it as the game went on. If Hillis wouldnt have coughed it up would Harrison even got on the field?? Any Cleveland homers out there want to chime in to clear the air??
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These are Harrison's rushing stats from last year.Tell me what Mangini is thinking.

Player Pos Yr Wk Tm Opp GameResult Rsh RushYd Yd/Rush TD FantPt Rank

1 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 2 CLE @ DEN L, 6-27 3 8 2.67 0 3.2 55

2 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 3 CLE @ BAL L, 3-34 16 52 3.25 0 8.5 32

3 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 4 CLE CIN L, 20-23 29 121 4.17 0 15.2 10

4 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 5 CLE @ BUF W, 6-3 8 21 2.63 0 2.1 56

5 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 6 CLE @ PIT L, 14-27 5 26 5.20 0 2.6 48

6 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 7 CLE GB L, 3-31 3 7 2.33 0 3.0 44

7 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 8 CLE @ CHI L, 6-30 5 19 3.80 0 1.9 51

8 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 10 CLE BAL L, 0-16 0 0 0 0.0 109

9 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 12 CLE @ CIN L, 7-16 2 3 1.50 0 0.8 80

10 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 13 CLE SD L, 23-30 10 35 3.50 0 21.7 2

11 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 14 CLE PIT W, 13-6 7 9 1.29 0 1.9 61

12 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 15 CLE @ KC W, 41-34 34 286 8.41 3 47.8 1

13 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 16 CLE OAK W, 23-9 39 148 3.79 1 20.8 9

14 Jerome Harrison rb 2009 17 CLE JAX W, 23-17 33 127 3.85 1 20.7 8

Just because Harrison got next to no carries game 1 did not mean he would not be used heavily games 2-3.

How does a player go from 29 carries in a near win vs a division winning playoff team CIN to 8 carries in a 6-3 slogpit of a game vs Buffalo?

Vs TB, a terrible run defense, in a 3 point game in which the Browns had held a good lead, playing with a turnover prone QB on the road, the Browns go with 38 passes and 23 runs (only 18 of which were by the RB's).

I would like to think Mangini, or Holmgren, figures this out.

 
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ROBOPUNTER said:
Hillis is almost just like Alstott, except I think Alstott was black.
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:blackdot: wut?I bought the hype this summer and now regret it. Dumped Hillis a while back and have Harrison. This reminds me of Denver. I'm trying to trade Harrison for anything at this point to just be done with this mess.
 
ROBOPUNTER said:
Hillis is almost just like Alstott, except I think Alstott was black.
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No, no, no. He was with the east coast Raiders.At any rate, most of the posters in this thread are missing the boat on Hillis, IMO. He's not the power monster that Alstott was, but he does other things very well, such as catch the ball and pick up the blitz. Being a "complete back" makes him more likely to see time in various down & distamce situations. They like him and, unless the fumbles become chronic, he will probably get a few more touches than Harrison in a true RBBC.
 
Harrison is not an everydown back.

He is a change of pace back.

It will be RBBC all season.

Of the two, Hillis is probably the one to own especially in a PPR.

 
I own both, not just a Hillis owner.

Hillis has a lot going for him right now for FF purposes:

Was brought in by this staff

Was the starting RB to start the season

Regardless of the RB split Hillis will be the goal line RB and looks to get the most receptions out of the backfield

Another bonus that may not come into play enough but "if" the Browns are looking to run the clock out, Hillis should also be that guy

 
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I was watching the game the other day and thought "Wow, Hillis wears #40 just like that big white guy in Tampa used to".

 
dagwood said:
Harrison is not an everydown back.



He is a change of pace back.

It will be RBBC all season.

Of the two, Hillis is probably the one to own especially in a PPR.
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last year disagrees with you

If you think Hillis is the one to own well then saddle up partner because you are in for a long ride

 
Harrison owner - "The coach is miserable, give the guy the rock, he is the better RB, do you remember the last 3 games last year?"

Hillis owner - "This guy is an Alstott clone, do you remember what he did when he was in Den?"

Non-owner - "This has RBBC written all over it. Could be a 60/40 spilt, in PPR I would lean towards Hillis, but really wouldn't want to rely on either one."

 
GoRaiders said:
Harrison owner - "The coach is miserable, give the guy the rock, he is the better RB, do you remember the last 3 games last year?"Hillis owner - "This guy is an Alstott clone, do you remember what he did when he was in Den?"Non-owner - "This has RBBC written all over it. Could be a 60/40 spilt, in PPR I would lean towards Hillis, but really wouldn't want to rely on either one."
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Not really.Lots of great opinions in here. Here's some facts instead:Harrison has carried 30+ carries three times -- in the last three games. The Browns won all three of those games. In Harrison's only other 20+ carry game of the season, they lost by a field goal. The history is what it is, and the facts are what they are.The two Hillis fumbles probably cost them the game this week, too. If you instead give Harrison the ball -- as in the past -- the Browns have a better chance of winning.Harrison doesn't have to be special. But he's more skilled and well rounded than people seem to recognize. The Browns are an underrated run blocking team. Arian Foster isn't special. He's sufficiently talented to get the job done in that scheme.
 
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Otis said:
GoRaiders said:
Harrison owner - "The coach is miserable, give the guy the rock, he is the better RB, do you remember the last 3 games last year?"Hillis owner - "This guy is an Alstott clone, do you remember what he did when he was in Den?"Non-owner - "This has RBBC written all over it. Could be a 60/40 spilt, in PPR I would lean towards Hillis, but really wouldn't want to rely on either one."
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Not really.Lots of great opinions in here. Here's some facts instead:Harrison has carried 30+ times three times -- in the last three games. The Browns won all three of those games. In Harrison's only other 20+ carry game of the season, they lost by a field goal. The history is what it is, and the facts are what they are.The two Hillis fumbles probably cost them the game this week, too. If you instead give Harrison the ball -- as in the past -- the Browns have a better chance of winning.Harrison doesn't have to be special. But he's more skilled and well rounded than people seem to recognize. The Browns are an underrated run blocking team. Arian Foster isn't special. He's sufficiently talented to get the job done in that scheme.
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I laughed at the Jet fans that said Mangini was a worthless coach. Now it appears I will have to eat my words. The dude trys to outsmart himself. Those 3 stats about Harrison's carries tell me all I need ot know about Mangini.
 
Raider Nation said:
Can I say one (most likely unpopular) thing about Mangini? Chances are he didn't get to where he is by being a complete moron.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that he knows more about his football team than any of us who are typing on a message board. He is with these guys day in and day out. He knows their strengths and weaknesses inside-out. If he thinks RBBC is the right move, it probably is.

:lmao:

The exception to the above rule is anyone who has coached the Oakland Raiders since 2002.
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:confused: IIRC, this is not the first HC in Cleveland that has refused to let Harrison carry the load. This reminds me somewhat of Norwood. No matter how great we think the player is, the coaches clearly feel the guy is not capable of carrying the load.

 
Ahhh, the old rely on three games against bad teams at the end last year and try to project to 16 games this year theory.

Fools gold IMHO.

Good luck with that.

 
dagwood said:
Ahhh, the old rely on three games against bad teams at the end last year and try to project to 16 games this year theory.Fools gold IMHO.Good luck with that.
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It's not just those last 3 games.Games 2-3 had Harrison with a large share of carries. Game 2 vs BAL, poor result but that's BAL; still 3+ yards per carry.CIN game 3 was a huge game and a near win vs a playoff team and division winner.Then the Browns forgot about him. Again.Harrison's got the ability; he's shown it. If the Browns decide to have a 38/23 pass/run ratio vs the Bucs with poor old Jake at the helm and hand the ball off 1/4 of the time to a WR & TE besides just Hillias and Harrison, well what can I say, that's just bad football.But if you have a roster spot to spare wait and see if the Browns figure it out like last year in Games 2-3 (2009).
 
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